Guild Wars 2

milo.6942:

Poplolita.2638:

milo.6942:

Poplolita.2638:

Those words are used together to describe thousands of people playing at the same time in the same WORLD. Which is simply not the case with guild war. The only zone where guild war is persitent is the town.

However, in the actual world pve, The difference is this: In Guild Wars, the possibility to run into other groups is zero. In actual MMOs, it’s 100%. We don’t care whether people talk outside towns. The important thing is whether you CAN. Persistance and Seamlessness = MMO. Guild wars has none of those. It has more similarities with diablo 3 than guild war 2 or EQ1/2, or wow.

It’s simply not fully a mmo.

Which brings us full circle to the question of best PvP and your silly exclusion of gw1. Silly and irration, because we are discussing pvp and that has nothing to do with the mmo part of a game. moreover, gw1 is the direct prequel to this game and many (but not nearly enough) gw2 features were taken directly from it.

“because we are discussing pvp and that has nothing to do with the mmo part of a game”

While we’re at it, lol and dota 2 are by far the best pvp game out there. I’m the irrational one anyway. Anyway, you guys indirectly answered my question.

It’s ok I can keep repeating myself if you are having trouble reading, it’s np
gw1 is prequel to gw2, and its pvp combat is structurally identical to other mmos (gw2 in this case). that’s why it’s directly comparable. the quasi-persistent pve world is irrelevant. lol and dota are a different class of games entirely, where competitive pvp involves starting a new character and leveling during match.

i have been waiting for you to say the only intelligent and reasonable reason why gw1 should be excluded from “best pvp” competition, and if you don’t come across it yourself i will give you a hand.

You are not answering my question which was, in case you forgot:
Could you name me any other MMO (NO GW1 IS NOT A MMO) that has no gear advantage, and the same amazing combat potential?

*i have been waiting for you to say the only intelligent and reasonable reason why gw1 is a “mmo:”, and if you don’t come across it yourself i will give you a hand.

You need athletes to have an esport. You need professional players and teams. They also need to be popular. As in having at least more than 12 people watching the game.

Poplolita.2638:

You are not answering my question which was, in case you forgot:
Could you name me any other MMO (NO GW1 IS NOT A MMO) that has no gear advantage, and the same amazing combat potential?

oh i know what your question was, i was telling you that it had a silly restriction for no reason. we’re not discussing pve, we’re looking for best mmorpg pvp. gw1 can be or not be an mmorpg depending who you ask, but it has the same pvp environment, so it is valid in pvp comparisons.

Here is your valid way to exclude gw1 from mmorpg pvp comparisons: the game is dead
It really was that simple
but instead you insisted on frivolous sub-genre restrictions

Poplolita.2638:

Jax.5261:

Poplolita.2638:

Jax.5261:

Poplolita.2638:

Jax.5261:

Poplolita.2638:

Archaon.6245:

Poplolita.2638:

Archaon.6245:

Teutos.8620:

*) Best balancing of all MMORPGs!

Could you name me any other MMO (NO GW1 IS NOT A MMO) that has no gear advantage, and the same amazing combat potential (Potential is the key word in case you got some reading comprehension issue).

I can do even more…i can show you a game 10 times better than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMsQhI089Qk

Even if full caps, you can’t read. What else, are you going to link me Lol? Do you know what’s a mmo (RHETORICAL QUESTION!)?

M assive
Pretty obvious, massive amount of players playing.
http://www.guildwars.com/events/press/releases/pressrelease-2009-04-24.php
M ultiplayer
Well, we all know it’s multiplayer.
O nline
It’s only playable online.
RPG
You roleplay as a character in the game, straight forward.

I’m struggling to find the aspect of the term MMORPG you simply don’t comprehend? Have you played the game? You may want to play it before you continue to make a fool of yourself.

The people who call it an MMO are the ones who want to turn it into one.

Quote from official GW website:

“Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience.”

Also, Massive/multiplayers:

Those words are used together to describe thousands of people playing at the same time in the same WORLD. Which is simply not the case with guild war. The only zone where guild war is persitent is the town.

However, in the actual world pve, The difference is this: In Guild Wars, the possibility to run into other groups is zero. In actual MMOs, it’s 100%. We don’t care whether people talk outside towns. The important thing is whether you CAN. Persistance and Seamlessness = MMO. Guild wars has none of those. It has more similarities with diablo 3 than guild war 2 or EQ1/2, or wow.

It’s simply not fully a mmo.

Massive Multiplayer Online = MMO, your opinion and Arena Net’s opinion is irrelevant.
In ArenaNet’s opinion this game is an E-Sport, it is not. Arena Net wanted to distinguish their game from others so that people would think it was more unique, that doesn’t make it not an MMO.

Then even with your unique definition of an MMO, GW1 would still be classed as an MMO due to outposts being able to hold the amount of player’s you’re satisfied with. By your definition no game is an MMO because they have instances where you can’t fit every single player in the game in at once.

Well done.

How is your opinion more relevant than I and arenaNet’s?? I’m sorry, but In GW, the most people you can have at a time in an instance is 24, which is nowhere near ‘massive’. I ignored outposts altogether simply because they are a microscopic part of GW in terms of content.
Now even though I don’t believe GW is an MMO, I do think that as of yet there is no better genre to describe what GW is like. The best way I could describ it is that it’s a mix of diablo 3 and traditional mmo.

Because it’s the definition not your opinion that matters.

We are talking about one of the most controversial game in mmo industry when it concerns its genre. Not sure why you consider your own vision of gw the absolute truth.

I asked you guys a question, I decided to excluse gw because it’s officialy not considered fully a mmo by it’s own owner, not because of my own vision of gw. And if you feel It’s wrong, you can always check the statistic and see by yourself that half of gw community doesn’t consider it a mmo. Or you can make a thread about “gw a mmo?” see overall people reaction, make another one about “EQ2 a mmo?”, and compare them.

I’m sorry, but at this point, it’s your pov, against arenaNet pov. A valid ad hominem when a subject is that controversial.

It isn’t remotely controversial, you just want it to be so (for attention I assume). There’s no big debate and barely any people think it isn’t an MMO (mainly because it’s pretty stupid to think so) so you’re talking out of your behind.

Then we can continue to poke wholes in your argument, even though your argument is irrelevant to begin with. Using your terrible logic again you would conclude that this post was a waste of time because Arena Net said this game was an E-Sport therefore, with your logic, it is an E-Sport. So there was no need for you to post this thread because you have your backwards answer already.

milo.6942:

Here is your valid way to exclude gw1 from mmorpg pvp comparisons: the game is dead
It really was that simple
but instead you insisted on baseless genre restrictions

No, it’s not a valid reason to exclude a game.

Poplolita.2638:

milo.6942:

Here is your valid way to exclude gw1 from mmorpg pvp comparisons: the game is dead
It really was that simple
but instead you insisted on baseless genre restrictions

No, it’s not a valid reason to exclude a game.

lol of course it’s valid, it just depends on the discussion. i was just offering you a way out that no one could argue with, suit yourself

Poplolita at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what you call anything. Guild wars 2 is 3 game modes in one package. WvW which relates highly to PVE….but are still two different games. SPVP is entirely its own entity. And so the comparison should be made of the SPVP game mode compared to other pvp game modes (the spvp side is not an mmo by your example). Because any gamer who is looking to play a competitive game and wants to dive into seriously into gw2 pvp will overlook entirely (often times not even play) the pve or even wvw side of the game (the mmo side of the game). Because those game modes are not e-sports, they are both MMORPGs.

So its simply put the SPVP game mode of capture 3 points is not as successful or popular as other pvp games (and this game mode isn’t that popular in other pvp games either I might add..gw2 is not the first to use it).

And to share my own opinion and belief…the reason spvp is NOT as successful as other pvp games is heavily tied to the fact it has ANY relation to the other 2 game’s “wvw/pve” causing split resources and focus away from the development of SPVP. (comments from developers confirms this…so not really speculation.) Further, balancing and mechanics that are unhealthy for spvp stick around due to the companies obsession of allowing pve/wvw players to cross over into spvp at their leisure and not be entirely confused. (also confirmed by devs) It was a complication someone at arenanet obviously ignored and thus here we are. (no one has stood up and taken the blame).

GW1 isn’t an MMO? News to me, for the last 7 years I thought I was playing with thousands of people in an online role playing game.

Guess not lol.

Real problem is uncool players not game. Quake and cs players for example are just so much cooler. They can use gaming eyewear and still look cool.

Poplolita.2638:

stuff [/quote]

I did predict you’d eventually backtrack into not directly replying as each post you’d slowly give ground because you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about. Now you’re at “I only think this because I copied and pasted somebody else who was wrong”. I don’t know where you’re getting this magical “half the community” number because it’s also clearly, totally wrong.

Have fun in your delusion.

Mathias.9657:

GW1 isn’t an MMO? News to me, for the last 7 years I thought I was playing with thousands of people in an online role playing game.

Guess not lol.

No the definition of MMO changes when some random person feels he doesn’t want it to be in the same category, we don’t go by actual definitions here apparently!

@Jax.5261

Except, I did provide facts. Did you? ArenaNet’s quote and http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?462663-Is-Guild-Wars-an-MMO.

The fact you came up here with nothing but opinion bashing is quite unconstrutive.

Let’s end it here, and focus on this thread.

I watched the whole thing from start to finish. Some of the matches were pretty good and it was a well run and well casted tournament. However, 1000 viewers during the finals isn’t going to cut it as “eSports”. I don’t even think we hit past 2000 viewers at any time during the tournament.

Poplolita.2638:

@Jax.5261

Except, I did provide facts. Did you? ArenaNet’s quote and http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?462663-Is-Guild-Wars-an-MMO.

The fact you came up here with nothing but opinion bashing is quite unconstrutive.

Let’s end it here, and focus on this thread.

Clearly you’re missing the fairly obvious definition of a MMORPG. All of which GW1 fulfils the criteria for. You spout an opinion from ArenaNet as though it were fact. Not to be too callous, but do you consider everything you hear or read to be true before evaluating it yourself through criteria? Furthermore this whole argument on instancing baffles me somewhat. This was a thread on PvP and thus arguments should be made relevant to it. GW1 instancing worked just like GW2 instancing; however instead of worlds, you had servers (which actually made it easier to meet others; like millions of others).

Rattus.1462:

Poplolita.2638:

@Jax.5261

Except, I did provide facts. Did you? ArenaNet’s quote and http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?462663-Is-Guild-Wars-an-MMO.

The fact you came up here with nothing but opinion bashing is quite unconstrutive.

Let’s end it here, and focus on this thread.

Clearly you’re missing the fairly obvious definition of a MMORPG. All of which GW1 fulfils the criteria for. You spout an opinion from ArenaNet as though it were fact. Not to be too callous, but do you consider everything you hear or read to be true before evaluating it yourself through criteria? Furthermore this whole argument on instancing baffles me somewhat. This was a thread on PvP and thus arguments should be made relevant to it. GW1 instancing worked just like GW2 instancing; however instead of worlds, you had servers (which actually made it easier to meet others; like millions of others).

Let’s end it here, and focus on this thread. If you want to discuss whether gw1 is a mmo or not, go here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-wars-1-is-a-mmo/first#post2932894

Esports… LOLLOL

From Wikipedia and yes, even though I know Wikipedia isn’t the final be all end all of all information,. it can be helpful to clear up how most people see things.

Here’s the first paragraph of the MMORPG article.

“As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world or science-fiction world) and take control over many of that character’s actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player online RPGs by the number of players, and by the game’s persistent world (usually hosted by the game’s publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game.”

The number of players and the games persistent world. Guild Wars 1 didn’t have enough players, but even if you think it did, it didn’t have a persistent world.

You can make up your own definitions all you like, but to communicate we have to agree on certain aspects. I don’t know anyone who believes Guild Wars 1 had a persistent world.

In the Guild Wars 2 FAQ, there’s a question about is Guild Wars 2 an MMO, and the answer is yes, it has a persistent world.

I’m not even sure why this is being discussed. The only people who call Guild War 1 an MMO are people who are using their own definitions of what an MMO is.

So I am to assume that all that time I spent in outposts in GW1, there was no hint at some form of persistence and that trade and other activities would just come to a grinding halt when I left. Furthermore, GW1 had a huge player base.

Gw2 pvp, for whatever reason, is not fun. Particularly in Hotjoin.

I actually quite like conquest mode in most games but noone I know enjoys the spvp at all.

The Dev’s need to address why this game mode is not fun.

Things that seem broken
- too many people on a hotjoin map
- too many aoe skills
-too many aoe CC
-too many CC abilities per character
-really poor itemisation for hybrid builds
-too many pets… wayyy too many
-too many classes with easy access to invisibility

The game had so much potential but is let down by too many irritations.

Unless your average player enjoys this mode of play it will never be an esport.

Xcom.1926:

I watched the whole thing from start to finish. Some of the matches were pretty good and it was a well run and well casted tournament. However, 1000 viewers during the finals isn’t going to cut it as “eSports”. I don’t even think we hit past 2000 viewers at any time during the tournament.

You don’t think so? 1000 is good enough for me, 1000 viewers, 1000 dollars, 1000 reasons to watch ;D
But srsly, the average viewer count for most esports tournies is ~10k right now (exclude Dota 2, and LoL, sometimes sc2 can bust out a 50k viewer count stream, but it’s getting more and more rare). 1-2k vieweres is a good number, much higher than any other mmorpg tournament is getting right now, and it’s a good start for gw2.
just imagine, there could have been no viewers.. that woulda been awkward! ;D

Rattus.1462:

So I am to assume that all that time I spent in outposts in GW1, there was no hint at some form of persistence and that trade and other activities would just come to a grinding halt when I left. Furthermore, GW1 had a huge player base.

Farmville has a bigger playerbase than Guild Wars, but it’s not an MMORPG. Hell, COD has a big playerbase too. Playerbase doesn’t decide your genre of game.

More to the point, outposts are LOBBIES. Can you cast skills, use spells in outposts? Nope. Even in Outposts you fight in, like LA during the mission to get to Nightfall, it’s an instance of LA which didn’t exist.

Games that have lobbies are known as lobby games. There are many of them. I’ve seen none that I would call an MMORPG.

If you can play in outposts, why can’t you use your skills there?

Vayne.8563:

Rattus.1462:

So I am to assume that all that time I spent in outposts in GW1, there was no hint at some form of persistence and that trade and other activities would just come to a grinding halt when I left. Furthermore, GW1 had a huge player base.

Farmville has a bigger playerbase than Guild Wars, but it’s not an MMORPG. Hell, COD has a big playerbase too. Playerbase doesn’t decide your genre of game.

More to the point, outposts are LOBBIES. Can you cast skills, use spells in outposts? Nope. Even in Outposts you fight in, like LA during the mission to get to Nightfall, it’s an instance of LA which didn’t exist.

Games that have lobbies are known as lobby games. There are many of them. I’ve seen none that I would call an MMORPG.

If you can play in outposts, why can’t you use your skills there?

farmville and cod aren’t rpgs, arguably the more important half of “mmorpg”.
that you can or can’t cast spells or fight in towns is irrelevant, there’s no sub-clause that dictates “true” mmos must have these things. ultimately categories are made by people to help them to organize things. different people may consider gw1 an mmo (it certainly is an rpg) or not, but it’s indisputably closely associated with other mmos.

and all of the above is irrelevant to the discussion, because we were discussing mmorpg pvp, which gw1 is absolutely relevant to.

MLG usually has around 100 viewers. Not so e-sport.

Relentliss.2170:

The game had so much potential but is let down by too many irritations.

Unless your average player enjoys this mode of play it will never be an esport.

Exactly. Seems like A-Net is not aware of the fact that PvP has just so many players in the list due to the dailies (they once brought up the argument: PvP in GW2 has more players than in GW1). Shows me a big lack of understanding.

I agree GW2 had a lot of potential, but for a multitude of reasons, competitive PvP is nearly dead.

OP is trolling himself.
Move along~

Games will become esports when they community makes them esports. This game will not be a legit esport until all the countless pvp issues are fixed.

I like this definition for esport:

someone out there is paid a living wage just to practice and be good at the game. aka a professional.