Guild Wars 2

So they added 6 more classes (now all 8 with the warrior & ele) getting another passive skill.
So far the community I feel has been lets say ‘not liking’ the warriors healing signet.
Now to balance this GW2 has decided to add 6 more classes with similar type skills.

I believe this is hurting the game, when we’ve already been asking for less passive.
Devs can make jokes about “here comes the petting zoo” which Isn’t fun watching the mist league live stream tournament of them bashing their own game. Then add more pets+passive?

What can we do to show them this is not the right course? GW2 is making the game more passive (granted its their game) But they want to make a game enjoyable and not mindless passive+spam, no?

Discuss ideas on how to fix this since my last most recent post was deleted for not being contributive.

Ghostcrawler is available for hire I believe. He would be a great asset for this game…

Krayiss.4926:

So we have 4 more classes (now 5 with the warrior) getting another passive skill.

Ghostcrawler is available for hire I believe. He would be a great asset for this game…

GC killed wow pvp… hell no, ty

despite all crap going on in gw2, pvp here is still miles better than in wow

The new heals introduced aren’t even passive to the point of ‘never’ being activated, like the Healing Signet is. The new Guard & Necromancer heal? You will have to activate them and maximize them to survive – which can be countered by your foe simply not standing there like a training dummy. I think it’s too early on counting on the new Ranger heal to be a big PvP mainstay as well. Wait until next week until they actually get released before we talk about how to fix them.

We don’t even know if the rumored heals are real, or if they were once real and got altered, or if they have no basis in reality.

Your right it could be much worse. It goes along with what the devs have been doing. Leaving war heal OP for so long and trying to balance by giving passives to the other 6 classes. This can’t make the game better in the state its already in…

Open your eyes people.

kindly link the information regarding the details of the new skills, thanks

check reddit or google
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/

No one has seen the heal values or Cooldown times. No one has used them, how about we just take a few deep breaths for the next 6 days and relax. If it doesn’t work it will be changed.

I’d like to point out that it’s possible the datamined heals are not necessarily the heals that are being released on the 10th, or that their implementation may have changed by the time they come out.

Let’s not go too crazy until the livestream on Friday where the devs are going to show us the new heals.

Who cares the amounts? Its another passive skill to go along with spamming your skills as fast as you can wars. Which is hurting the game if you didn’t know.

How long will that change take? They haven’t changed dhuumfire and its near 6 months. You really think once they are in game it will be changed anytime soon?

Wolf.5816:

No one has seen the heal values or Cooldown times. No one has used them, how about we just take a few deep breaths for the next 6 days and relax. If it doesn’t work it will be changed.

Yes they have, it’s called datamining.

Krayiss.4926:

Ghostcrawler is available for hire I believe. He would be a great asset for this game…

That mustve been the worst idea ever mentioned on these boards.

Ghostcrawler manhandled wows core combatsystems. He allowed a huge powercreep and simplified things like the talentree up to a level where its impossible to screw up your build. Where everyone in pvp has the exact same build, the same glyphs, gems, enchants etc.

It all whent downhill after he arrived.

Wolf.5816:

If it doesn’t work it will be changed.

Or they just wait for the meta to settle for the next six months and the players are left with a broken game in the meanwhile again.

thanks for the link on the info Krayiss!

Incurafy.6329:

Wolf.5816:

No one has seen the heal values or Cooldown times. No one has used them, how about we just take a few deep breaths for the next 6 days and relax. If it doesn’t work it will be changed.

Yes they have, it’s called datamining.

Huh? I saw the list on reddit. I don’t see any numbers.

Another thing to add to the rumored heals possibly or possibly not being the ones that make it to live, in the Edge of the Mists test currently a few NPCs have the Warrior stance heal. Whether this means Warrior will get an altered one or if it was scrapped completely and given to NPCs instead, who knows?

Proven.2854:

Incurafy.6329:

Wolf.5816:

No one has seen the heal values or Cooldown times. No one has used them, how about we just take a few deep breaths for the next 6 days and relax. If it doesn’t work it will be changed.

Yes they have, it’s called datamining.

Huh? I saw the list on reddit. I don’t see any numbers.

Another thing to add to the rumored heals possibly or possibly not being the ones that make it to live, in the Edge of the Mists test currently a few NPCs have the Warrior stance heal. Whether this means Warrior will get an altered one or if it was scrapped completely and given to NPCs instead, who knows?

It’s not every number, but you can search the skills by name over at gw2db.com

Each skill’s cooldown and non-scaling skill info is there. Cast time isn’t present, and healing/damage values are likely incorrect and can’t even be correctly compared with other skills as some skills scale differently towards level 80, and co-efficients aren’t visible.

But for example, “Skelk Venom” as in the files is a venom with 5 charges (so +1 charge trait = 20% more healing, lifesteal trait procs 5-6 times), and “Arcane Brilliance” is listed with a blast finisher, so there is some new data that means something.

Honestly the formatting on some of the skills makes them feel unfinished and what’s there might not be their final form. The livestream on Friday will confirm whether we’ve found the right skills, and the release on Tuesday will confirm their numbers.

not everything whats passive is bad cause its passive

dont jump the train cause the cool kids said so

in gw2 the classes are defined by passive traits. We would hav only 5 skills + 3 utility + heal and elite to say this is THE class without the passives.

seriously in gw2 the traits make the class and when you face a thief, mesmer, ele whatever than you see the complete build makeing the thing what is fighting you.

I agree OP passives which give you advantage over your enemy by doing nothing than jsut being there is bad design and have to be removed. But there are passives like remove a condi all 10 sec on guardians or thiefs heal in stealth – such things

this is defining the class – so plz stop this witchhunt on everything what is passiv cause this is just stupid

when you see a trait/spell which is op (and theirs a lot ingame) then discuss bout this trait/spell but not everything whats passiv

thx for your time

Romek.4201:

not everything whats passive is bad cause its passive

dont jump the train cause the cool kids said so

It depends on the type of passives tbh. Stuff like healing etc shouldnt be passive in my eyes. It takes away some of the risks when playing a certain class. If everything goes automatic it makes the game quite shallow.

Cleansing ire + healing signet is an obvious example. A typical class has to “plan” its heal and condi removal (for example right after a burn or torment stacks). These 2 remove that entire way of thinking.

Krayiss.4926:

So they added 6 more classes (now all 8 with the warrior & ele) getting another passive skill.
So far the community I feel has been lets say ‘not liking’ the warriors healing signet.
Now to balance this GW2 has decided to add 6 more classes with similar type skills.

I believe this is hurting the game, when we’ve already been asking for less passive.
Devs can make jokes about “here comes the petting zoo” which Isn’t fun watching the mist league live stream tournament of them bashing their own game. Then add more pets+passive?

What can we do to show them this is not the right course? GW2 is making the game more passive (granted its their game) But they want to make a game enjoyable and not mindless passive+spam, no?

Discuss ideas on how to fix this since my last most recent post was deleted for not being contributive.

Ghostcrawler is available for hire I believe. He would be a great asset for this game…

We told them but they dont care. They just think we are negative complainers. The reason everyone quit was:
1, Immunities
2, Passive play
3, Ai spam
4, Evasion spam

They are adding more of all these and some are even exceptionally strong like diamond skin and the water spirit.

Why are they doing this!!!?!?!

Krayiss.4926:

Why are they doing this!!!?!?!

Because they also think spirit ranger is active because “you have to actively react to the passives”

Boomstin.3460:

Wolf.5816:

If it doesn’t work it will be changed.

Or they just wait for the meta to settle for the next six months and the players are left with a broken game in the meanwhile again.

I promise everyone that this is what will happen. If dec 10th kittens everything then it will be 3 months + till it is fixed.

Prolly 6 months cause we still dont see a fix for dhuumfire.

Just made a post elsewhere, seems relevant:

“Somebody needs to make a PvP based Ranger timeline video starting with like, March, and show rangers every month with spirits out, shortbow autoattacking, and then make some snide comments about balance and the metagame and esports. It just really, really needs to happen.”

I can’t wait to fight necros with the retal signet

Krayiss.4926:

Ghostcrawler is available for hire I believe. He would be a great asset for this game…

No thanks.
In my opinion he was never a great asset to WoW. It was a much better game before they put him in charge.

Im scared to see just how OP all the passives are going to be!

This games spvp is never going to reach any respectable level, and quite obviously Anet has realised this as well and hence they treat pvp as they do.

We told them but they dont care. They just think we are negative complainers. The reason everyone quit was:
1, Immunities
2, Passive play
3, Ai spam
4, Evasion spam

5. condi spam. But of course you would “forgot” to mention that.

Most people who complain about all of the above ^ needs to just play a kitten fighter already and stop even messing with MMOs. The clearly don’t understand how character building works in an MMO, nor do they get MMO pvp. There’s nothing wrong with GW2 pvp in an MMO standpoint (except balance issues but theres balance issues anytime you have different playstyles involved). GW2 has one of the best MMO pvps as far as combat goes, which for some, may be a tough cookie to swallow, but its the truth. But nothing is stopping you from Getting a PS3 or PS4 and playing Playstation Allstars or some other online fighting game. That’s really all there is to it. :/ It’s an MMO.

ronpierce.2760:

There’s nothing wrong with GW2 pvp in an MMO standpoint (except balance issues but theres balance issues anytime you have different playstyles involved). GW2 has one of the best MMO pvps as far as combat goes, which for some, may be a tough cookie to swallow, but its the truth.

If that was true, then 10+ year old games wouldn’t have more stream viewers. ;P You must be delusional if you believe spvp did not majorly flop.

Passive abilities would be ok in an MMO with your typical 30-50 skills.

But GW2 already has a very limited skill-set. Most classes only utilize 10-15 skills. Making those passive is just lowering the already low skill-ceiling.

Passives should all be relegated to traits, but have no room in the form of active abilities. Even Singets are too passive for my linking but at least they have active effects as well.

Master of Timespace.2548:

ronpierce.2760:

There’s nothing wrong with GW2 pvp in an MMO standpoint (except balance issues but theres balance issues anytime you have different playstyles involved). GW2 has one of the best MMO pvps as far as combat goes, which for some, may be a tough cookie to swallow, but its the truth.

If that was true, then 10+ year old games wouldn’t have more stream viewers. ;P You must be delusional if you believe spvp did not majorly flop.

A large chunk of pvpers who left didn’t leave due to combat. Yes some people got fitty over balance changes but the big issues is:
- One game type is boring
- Conquest is systematically flawed and incorrectly empowers AOE spells
- Reward system was non-reachable goal (wasn’t engaging)
- Then things like balance/etc.

Balance is an issue in EVERY MMO to exist. Look at WoW. But at least they have variety, its what keeps people coming back. The reason GW2s stream numbers are so low is because the community is small, and the first 3 are a big reason for that. WoW gets tons of views often, not because its wtfawesome, but a lot of people play it so are actually interested in watching streams for it. You don’t magically get people to watch a game they don’t play.

Point is; GW2 didn’t flop because of its MMORPG aspects. It flopped because it wasn’t engaging enough for many players to keep them wanting to play.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Krayiss.4926:

Why are they doing this!!!?!?!

Because they also think spirit ranger is active because “you have to actively react to the passives”

In short words stop autoattacking and spamming random skills and recast dead spirits…very active indeed..

Archaon.6245:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Krayiss.4926:

Why are they doing this!!!?!?!

Because they also think spirit ranger is active because “you have to actively react to the passives”

In short words stop autoattacking and spamming random skills and recast dead spirits…very active indeed..

Well spirits are more active than signets, so in a pinch that is true. They have defined uptime, a long cast to use and an activation skill (2 in 1). Versus signets which are… Up forever, unless you use it for a CD. Just saying, technically (really any way you look at it) spirits are more active than signets and a few other non-signet abilities. :/ People just hate spirits, so they complain. Like the AI argument? They’re just as passive as traits/signets but actually have to be used and have additional use-abilities, and don’t attack, and are basically signets that can be AoEd down, yet they’re cheesy AI build… Nope, they’re just strong, that’s it. They’re strong so people complain and AI is an easy target, even if they’re wrong for saying it. What people really hate is anything that buffs your characters attacks (why people don’t complain about might is beyond me, its no different than adding some burn to your attack), and people hate how spammy short bow looks because all of the abilities look the exact same for the most part. But yet people still complain that its too AI/faceroll.

Dee Jay.2460:

Passive abilities would be ok in an MMO with your typical 30-50 skills.

But GW2 already has a very limited skill-set. Most classes only utilize 10-15 skills. Making those passive is just lowering the already low skill-ceiling.

Passives should all be relegated to traits, but have no room in the form of active abilities. Even Singets are too passive for my linking but at least they have active effects as well.

You sir, have completely misunderstood pretty much everything.
The reason GW2 has a low skill ceiling cannot be tied to “only” having 10-15 skills in any way. And no, dont relegate any passive stuff, just remove it unless it has an interesting passive effect.

KrisHQ.4719:

Dee Jay.2460:

Passive abilities would be ok in an MMO with your typical 30-50 skills.

But GW2 already has a very limited skill-set. Most classes only utilize 10-15 skills. Making those passive is just lowering the already low skill-ceiling.

Passives should all be relegated to traits, but have no room in the form of active abilities. Even Singets are too passive for my linking but at least they have active effects as well.

You sir, have completely misunderstood pretty much everything.
The reason GW2 has a low skill ceiling cannot be tied to “only” having 10-15 skills in any way. And no, dont relegate any passive stuff, just remove it unless it has an interesting passive effect.

Of course the low skill-ceiling is tied to the small number of skills. It’s not the only thing but it matters.

Looking at “skill” for all it’s abstract nature in an MMO and it is made up of:
1. Situational awareness
2. Class knowledge
3. Personal Control (twitch skills)

Due to the smaller number of abilities and counter-mechanisms class knowledge is easier to acquire. And due to the limited number of skills, so is Personal Control.

So in GW2 there is a smaller gap between someone who knows nothing and someone who knows everything. That means the skill-ceiling is lower.

oh gawd, those heals were not tested properly!! Glad we know the livestream is making a joke of them!

Dee Jay.2460:

KrisHQ.4719:

Dee Jay.2460:

Passive abilities would be ok in an MMO with your typical 30-50 skills.

But GW2 already has a very limited skill-set. Most classes only utilize 10-15 skills. Making those passive is just lowering the already low skill-ceiling.

Passives should all be relegated to traits, but have no room in the form of active abilities. Even Singets are too passive for my linking but at least they have active effects as well.

You sir, have completely misunderstood pretty much everything.
The reason GW2 has a low skill ceiling cannot be tied to “only” having 10-15 skills in any way. And no, dont relegate any passive stuff, just remove it unless it has an interesting passive effect.

Of course the low skill-ceiling is tied to the small number of skills. It’s not the only thing but it matters.

Looking at “skill” for all it’s abstract nature in an MMO and it is made up of:
1. Situational awareness
2. Class knowledge
3. Personal Control (twitch skills)

Due to the smaller number of abilities and counter-mechanisms class knowledge is easier to acquire. And due to the limited number of skills, so is Personal Control.

So in GW2 there is a smaller gap between someone who knows nothing and someone who knows everything. That means the skill-ceiling is lower.

No. It’s does not matter, not even the slighest.
A hero in Dota 2 has on average 6 active abilities/skills, including items. The skill ceiling in GW2 is a complete joke in comparison.
Then if you look at a game like WoW with a overload of skills, then you’ll notice that the skill ceiling is in fact pretty low.
If you still believe you’re right, then I’ll just quietly withdraw from the discussion.

You are all baddies. You have to learn to “actively react to the passives” in this game, as stated by Arenanet.

But but everyone reacts to healing signet with more healing signet!!

Krayiss.4926:

But but everyone reacts to healing signet with more healing signet!!

Pretty much this patch description.

Lol right XD
I cant wait for the new elites, going with the past 6 months of balancing and the recent heal skill they ought to be funny.

Sheesh. True there’s too much passive play in PvP, but you’re missing a key element of why the passive play in PvP is bad. Skills like Healing Signet and Ranger Spirits, and skills traits like Dhuumfire are bad for multiple reasons, none of which are directly tied to their passive nature. Healing Signet’s not bad simply because it’s passive, it’s bad because it’s a relatively high heal with no conditions to fulfill. Strong passives need conditions to keep them in check. For example, if they changed it so HS’s passive was halved while under the effects of a condition, or the passive heal went on a 3 second cooldown when the warrior took crit damage, it’d be far less complained about when it is now, because it’d be easily countered.
In short, what I’m saying is: passive effects don’t inherently make passive effects bad. Its the lack of checks and balances on strong passives that make them bad. Don’t try to oversimplify problems.

Dual.8953:

Sheesh. True there’s too much passive play in PvP, but you’re missing a key element of why the passive play in PvP is bad. Skills like Healing Signet and Ranger Spirits, and skills traits like Dhuumfire are bad for multiple reasons, none of which are directly tied to their passive nature. Healing Signet’s not bad simply because it’s passive, it’s bad because it’s a relatively high heal with no conditions to fulfill. Strong passives need conditions to keep them in check. For example, if they changed it so HS’s passive was halved while under the effects of a condition, or the passive heal went on a 3 second cooldown when the warrior took crit damage, it’d be far less complained about when it is now, because it’d be easily countered.
In short, what I’m saying is: passive effects don’t inherently make passive effects bad. Its the lack of checks and balances on strong passives that make them bad. Don’t try to oversimplify problems.

Haha wow.

Did you forget signets have an Active? Thats how its supposed to be countered. But the passive is way too strong so people say: kitten that kitten is so passive.

It’s pretty hard to play actively when you can barely tell what’s going on in a fight with more than 3-4 people involved.

GankSinatra.2653:

Dual.8953:

Sheesh. True there’s too much passive play in PvP, but you’re missing a key element of why the passive play in PvP is bad. Skills like Healing Signet and Ranger Spirits, and skills traits like Dhuumfire are bad for multiple reasons, none of which are directly tied to their passive nature. Healing Signet’s not bad simply because it’s passive, it’s bad because it’s a relatively high heal with no conditions to fulfill. Strong passives need conditions to keep them in check. For example, if they changed it so HS’s passive was halved while under the effects of a condition, or the passive heal went on a 3 second cooldown when the warrior took crit damage, it’d be far less complained about when it is now, because it’d be easily countered.
In short, what I’m saying is: passive effects don’t inherently make passive effects bad. Its the lack of checks and balances on strong passives that make them bad. Don’t try to oversimplify problems.

Haha wow.

Did you forget signets have an Active? Thats how its supposed to be countered. But the passive is way too strong so people say: kitten that kitten is so passive.

Can’t remember last time i saw a war actually activate healing signet…isn’t the active part supposed to be better than passive one (Making it going cd)? This signet’s logic is beyond me….like anet’s logic on pretty much everything else btw…and i’m scared they could intend this like “They don’t use the active part of hs…so let’s buff it…” no joke…i wouldn’t be surprised…

If you don’t like Warrior passive signet, you will like Mesmer new passive signet!!!
1000 heal every 3 sec whitout healing addictions
Add it to mantra heal or bunker build and you find a new unkillable mesmer build!!!
You’re near to find your new bunker healing passive skill :-D

It’s better than warrior’s skill, because if you add to that a good rune (es dolyak) and a good healing/bunker build you can heal for 2k+ every 3 sec.
If you play mantras you recharge for 3-4k+ every seconds.
Enjoy :-D

People are really complaining about the new Water Spirit?

So what should we do to stop this craziness from happening?