Guild Wars 2

http://www.twitch.tv/nosuchthingashalfwaycruuk/b/437879388
http://www.twitch.tv/nosuchthingashalfwaycruuk/b/437872131

Look at this rediculous area of effect on heartseeker.

Im sure alot of thieves love this but for a my stealth build its a nightmare when im hitting things from a mile away and taking me out of stealth. its bad enough that pets pathing runs them directly into my black powder after im stealth for a few secs i dont need to worry about a 600 range heartseeker hitting them and messing up my combo

Would love it if Anet reduced the area of effect of this attack

not bug
all melee have 130 radius
hs covers an area of 450×260
try autoattack at the same place

I know its not a bug but its not neccessary 450 is bullkitten its hitting at 600+ easy
its a single target attakc that is hitting kitten from a mile away

and obviously auto attack wont get near where im at

I assume you’re stacking stealth with it. In that case, you can’t expect any changes, you’re using the skill in an unintended way (instead of as a gap-closer damaging skill), you can’t expect it to perfectly suit that role. And I’m pretty sure all other builds that don’t stack stealth are happy with it as is.

i play thief and i would like anet to nerf heartseeker/ blackpowder combo.

Heartseeker should only give 2 initiatief back once , when you go tru the blackpowder

the second time you go tru blackpowder its should only add to stealth but initiatief shouldn’t regain.

thats how it should work, not like the perma stealth you can get out of it now.

Aleth.9630:

I assume you’re stacking stealth with it. In that case, you can’t expect any changes, you’re using the skill in an unintended way (instead of as a gap-closer damaging skill), you can’t expect it to perfectly suit that role. And I’m pretty sure all other builds that don’t stack stealth are happy with it as is.

You can’t really call using a combo field and a combofinisher unintended.

Cyhann.2609:

Aleth.9630:

I assume you’re stacking stealth with it. In that case, you can’t expect any changes, you’re using the skill in an unintended way (instead of as a gap-closer damaging skill), you can’t expect it to perfectly suit that role. And I’m pretty sure all other builds that don’t stack stealth are happy with it as is.

You can’t really call using a combo field and a combofinisher unintended.

then lets wait till they gone nerf the 2 ini when going into stealth to 1 ini …

its unintended that you can get perma stealth just cause it triggers the 2 ini when using a skill that steatlths you .

besides heartseeker isnt a skill that gives stealth / blackpowder isnt a skill that gives stealth , the combo of the 2 gives stealth.

tho trait says “a skill” that stealths you. Not a combo that stealths you.

so the combo shouldn’t give back the initiatief from the trait.

So eventualy devs are gone have to do something about the ini on stealth or the blackpowder combo with HS. ( perma stealth needs to be removed from game )
And hopefully they’ll be as nice as i am and not just remove the leap finished from heartseeker ( witch is the easy way to nerf it).

Void.4239:

Cyhann.2609:

Aleth.9630:

I assume you’re stacking stealth with it. In that case, you can’t expect any changes, you’re using the skill in an unintended way (instead of as a gap-closer damaging skill), you can’t expect it to perfectly suit that role. And I’m pretty sure all other builds that don’t stack stealth are happy with it as is.

You can’t really call using a combo field and a combofinisher unintended.

then lets wait till they gone nerf the 2 ini when going into stealth to 1 ini …

its unintended that you can get perma stealth just cause it triggers the 2 ini when using a skill that steatlths you .

besides heartseeker isnt a skill that gives stealth / blackpowder isnt a skill that gives stealth , the combo of the 2 gives stealth.

tho trait says “a skill” that stealths you. Not a combo that stealths you.

so the combo shouldn’t give back the initiatief from the trait.

So eventualy devs are gone have to do something about the ini on stealth or the blackpowder combo with HS. ( perma stealth needs to be removed from game )
And hopefully they’ll be as nice as i am and not just remove the leap finished from heartseeker ( witch is the easy way to nerf it).

Why not? The trait says when you use a skill that stealths you, and hs on the
blindfield is a skill that stealths you. Nothing wrong there. The same thing
happens when you go into a shadow refuge, eache pulse adds new stalth
duration stacks, and those give you 2 ini … i wonder what happens if you
get stealthed by another player?

But I wonder, if you are right and it really is unintended, why is it still in the game?
(Not that it really matters though, since “perma stealth” is useless in pvp)

Cyhann.2609:

Void.4239:

Cyhann.2609:

Aleth.9630:

I assume you’re stacking stealth with it. In that case, you can’t expect any changes, you’re using the skill in an unintended way (instead of as a gap-closer damaging skill), you can’t expect it to perfectly suit that role. And I’m pretty sure all other builds that don’t stack stealth are happy with it as is.

You can’t really call using a combo field and a combofinisher unintended.

then lets wait till they gone nerf the 2 ini when going into stealth to 1 ini …

its unintended that you can get perma stealth just cause it triggers the 2 ini when using a skill that steatlths you .

besides heartseeker isnt a skill that gives stealth / blackpowder isnt a skill that gives stealth , the combo of the 2 gives stealth.

tho trait says “a skill” that stealths you. Not a combo that stealths you.

so the combo shouldn’t give back the initiatief from the trait.

So eventualy devs are gone have to do something about the ini on stealth or the blackpowder combo with HS. ( perma stealth needs to be removed from game )
And hopefully they’ll be as nice as i am and not just remove the leap finished from heartseeker ( witch is the easy way to nerf it).

Why not? The trait says when you use a skill that stealths you, and hs on the
blindfield is a skill that stealths you. Nothing wrong there. The same thing
happens when you go into a shadow refuge, eache pulse adds new stalth
duration stacks, and those give you 2 ini … i wonder what happens if you
get stealthed by another player?

But I wonder, if you are right and it really is unintended, why is it still in the game?
(Not that it really matters though, since “perma stealth” is useless in pvp)

There’s alot thats still in the game thats needs a fix
Thief is a class that got heavily nerfed eatch patch , after the backstab/ mug nerf . they coudn’t just nerf D/P a week after that. but it gives the ability to get perma stealth and should be fased out of the game. When devs going to do it is a mystery.

its either eliminate perma stealth from game , or revised the stealth tree in traits. or the complains about thief will never end.

already a topic to make chill effect initiatief regain , and its all cause of the 2 ini on stealth trait that makes it look to people that we have a high ini regain on all thiefs .
But axualy its just the 2 ini on stealth that needs a look at /fix

HS-Spam is viable? since when . . .

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

HS-Spam is viable? since when . . .

Since D/P thieves started focusing S/D thieves and now S/D thieves are asking for a nerf on D/P.

Sarcasm.

Authority.6145:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

HS-Spam is viable? since when . . .

Since D/P thieves started focusing S/D thieves and now S/D thieves are asking for a nerf on D/P.

Sarcasm.

We back in January?

Is there someplace where you can learn all these combos, because I didn’t find out about HS in BP gives you stealth until like a month or two ago just by seeing people do it. Where does it tell you that doing certain skills gives you a certain advantage and show a list of all possible combos.

Hundred Blades is basically an AOE attack.
Kill Shot is basically an AOE attack.
Tainted Shackles is basically an AOE attack.

Insert Attack Here is basically an AOE attack.

It’s not a problem in my eyes. Yes it has a wide arc, but it’s a frontal arc single target strike. The only problem I have with it, is when I try to strike a minion necro, or a spirit ranger and basically everything else eats the attack but the target itself. But that’s more of an issue with all attacks that are single target than just specifically heartseeker.

@uberkingkong: Field + Finisher. Wiki has a table with the combo effect from each combination of field + finisher. From there’s it’s not very hard to make a list of the fields that a certain build has available and what finishers it has. Up to you to maximize that.

As for the permastealth, this thread is the reason it’s not a problem. All you do is stand near the blind field (you usually don’t even have to stand in it) and the thief won’t be able to get his combo off for longer stealth. In fact he’ll break stealth and use up initiative on his HS.

Also, permastealth is a bit of a misnomer. To get permastealth you have to get 4x heartseekers off through a single blackpowder. This is difficult to do outside of combat and almost impossible to do in the middle of combat. So, the 4x HS is pretty much just to start fights/traveling (and with two or more people, one with a smoke field and the others with blast finishers, these longer stealth openings are common anyway). 2x HS is reliable through BP, but if the thief is able to get off more than 2x HS then the other person is letting him do it.

I’m so sick of people asking for nerfs just because they don’t take the time to learn what they’re up against and develop a counter strategy. The unfortunate side effect from the Phantaram nerf necro thread’s success is that nerf2win players have been energized.

Schlieffen.2054:

@uberkingkong: Field + Finisher. Wiki has a table with the combo effect from each combination of field + finisher. From there’s it’s not very hard to make a list of the fields that a certain build has available and what finishers it has. Up to you to maximize that.

---

As for the permastealth, this thread is the reason it’s not a problem. All you do is stand near the blind field (you usually don’t even have to stand in it) and the thief won’t be able to get his combo off for longer stealth. In fact he’ll like break stealth and use up initiative on his HS.

Also, permastealth is a bit of a misnomer. To get permastealth you have to get 4x heartseekers off through a single blackpowder. This is difficult to do outside of combat and almost impossible to do in the middle of combat. So, the 4x HS is pretty much just to start fights/traveling (and with two or more people, one with a smoke field and the others with blast finishers, these longer stealth openings are common anyway). 2x HS is reliable through BP, but if the thief is able to get off more than 2x HS then the other person is letting him do it.

I’m so sick of people asking for nerfs just because they don’t take the time to learn what they’re up against and develop a counter strategy. The unfortunate side effect from the Phantaram nerf necro thread’s success is that nerf2win players have been energized.

Hey thanks, and great post. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people didn’t know the the BP and HS makes them go stealth if they never attended forums, have someone tell them how it works, played a thief or was somewhat hardcore in PvP.
Not sure if GW2 wanted you to goto the wiki for combo finishers or what but they did terrible job in game going over them. I’d say this is a big factor over the pro’s and the rookies is that they know combo finishers and the rookies don’t have a clue.
Also agree with you about people particularly the pro’s trying to cater everything around there builds, if theres some big CC patch and there build don’t have any CC removal they going to complain and make it into a huge deal, when they can just switch out utilities to counter.
+1

uberkingkong.8041:

Schlieffen.2054:

@uberkingkong: Field + Finisher. Wiki has a table with the combo effect from each combination of field + finisher. From there’s it’s not very hard to make a list of the fields that a certain build has available and what finishers it has. Up to you to maximize that.

---

As for the permastealth, this thread is the reason it’s not a problem. All you do is stand near the blind field (you usually don’t even have to stand in it) and the thief won’t be able to get his combo off for longer stealth. In fact he’ll like break stealth and use up initiative on his HS.

Also, permastealth is a bit of a misnomer. To get permastealth you have to get 4x heartseekers off through a single blackpowder. This is difficult to do outside of combat and almost impossible to do in the middle of combat. So, the 4x HS is pretty much just to start fights/traveling (and with two or more people, one with a smoke field and the others with blast finishers, these longer stealth openings are common anyway). 2x HS is reliable through BP, but if the thief is able to get off more than 2x HS then the other person is letting him do it.

I’m so sick of people asking for nerfs just because they don’t take the time to learn what they’re up against and develop a counter strategy. The unfortunate side effect from the Phantaram nerf necro thread’s success is that nerf2win players have been energized.

Hey thanks, and great post. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people didn’t know the the BP and HS makes them go stealth if they never attended forums, have someone tell them how it works, played a thief or was somewhat hardcore in PvP.
Not sure if GW2 wanted you to goto the wiki for combo finishers or what but they did terrible job in game going over them. I’d say this is a big factor over the pro’s and the rookies is that they know combo finishers and the rookies don’t have a clue.
Also agree with you about people particularly the pro’s trying to cater everything around there builds, if theres some big CC patch and there build don’t have any CC removal they going to complain and make it into a huge deal, when they can just switch out utilities to counter.
+1

Yeah it’d be nice if you could access that info in-game, maybe they’ll add that eventually. Wiki is great though, sometimes there’s really good info on specific skills in the “discussion” tab of the skill.

+1 Hopefully this is looked at.

Ok, but stealth spamming as a whole needs to get looked at as well.

And so does shadow trap.

I agree that stealth spamming is an issue that shouldn’t exist. But Shadow trap is fine.

When I click on the links, there are no videos, but if the complaint is HS arch is too wide, have you played Sword? The sword auto, can attack targets behind you. I don’t know if that is true for every weapon but I have never seen HS do that.

No it’ll just rapidly change direction to hit them if they are behind you.

Steb.2571:

But Shadow trap is fine.

So where’s the counter-play on shadow trap?

Follidus.8027:

Steb.2571:

But Shadow trap is fine.

So where’s the counter-play on shadow trap?

Mesmer portal?

Really? A thief complaining about heartseeker being aoe? Chain stealthing through black powder is something you do to flee or move around the map, if you ever chain it in combat you’re doing something wrong…

Schlieffen.2054:

Follidus.8027:

Steb.2571:

But Shadow trap is fine.

So where’s the counter-play on shadow trap?

Mesmer portal?

Flesh Wurm

huehuehue

Defektive.7283:

Flesh Wurm

huehuehue

In4b 10,000 range flesh wurm.

Shadow trap is completely abusive, and I’m pretty surprised there hasn’t been a thread about it yet, and I have no idea why people are defending its current iteration.

And Cruuk isn’t complaining that heartseeker is AoE, but rather that untargetted heartseekers hit kittening ANYTHING even REMOTELY nearby, which is frustrating for a player. The mechanics behind this end up creating situations wherein high value attacks (mace skull crack, backstab, pistolwhip stun, heartseeker, etc) all end up hitting spirits, pets, minions instead of the selected target, or heartseekers being used to leap hit targets completely out of the path of the attack.

Yea well u suck anyway cruuk so gg

Funny how he isn’t complaining that a high stealth uptime build that can constantly stack 16-25 stacks of might and land 6-8k backstabs in a not fully glass build isn’t the problem instead.

So the build has quality of life problems. So does every other class in the game. Namely the ranger and that horrible pet ai and self-rooting autoattacks or a sword auto that roots you so you have to calculate evades around its rooting animation.

Archer Henchman.2534:

Shadow trap is completely abusive, and I’m pretty surprised there hasn’t been a thread about it yet, and I have no idea why people are defending its current iteration.

And Cruuk isn’t complaining that heartseeker is AoE, but rather that untargetted heartseekers hit kittening ANYTHING even REMOTELY nearby, which is frustrating for a player. The mechanics behind this end up creating situations wherein high value attacks (mace skull crack, backstab, pistolwhip stun, heartseeker, etc) all end up hitting spirits, pets, minions instead of the selected target, or heartseekers being used to leap hit targets completely out of the path of the attack.

That is a bad thing, if it hits more then one target when your trying to stealth into it, you could reveal yourself, killing yourself.

Aleth.9630:

I assume you’re stacking stealth with it. In that case, you can’t expect any changes, you’re using the skill in an unintended way (instead of as a gap-closer damaging skill), you can’t expect it to perfectly suit that role. And I’m pretty sure all other builds that don’t stack stealth are happy with it as is.

Mhmm, most elementalists used RTL as an escape (an unintended way), now it has a 40 sec cd (unless you don’t lag and hit someone with it).

Be lucky you don’t get a 40 second cd :p