Guild Wars 2

Serious question? What’s taking so long to make changes to mesmer and dd ele? There have been countless posts at this point with ideas on how to improve it.

Before the skill update, someone from the team mentioned there would be frequent changes since things would be unbalanced. What happened to that?

Pretty much anyone who doesn’t main a mesmer or dd ele at this point knows that they are broken.

And a general fix to condi burst damage being a bit too high.

i think its because for 1 the community overall are dumb. There is a forum post to nerf engys since 1 player on twitch is better then everyone else.

There was another player say the same for thief since the other guy from the abjured is really good. People are actually posting nerf classes since the best players are crushing people.

Also i think mesmers need to be toned down a bit but i think eles are fine but a million people will come on here and say different from me which is why i think they will wait.

The devs cannot nerf the skill level of your opponents..no matter how much you cry on the forums…

all I fight is Mesmers, Ele, and Rampage match after match.

Exedore.6320:

And a general fix to condi burst damage being a bit too high.

What condition burst damage?

On topic at least they could fix the bugs if not real balance.

Sagat.3285:

Exedore.6320:

And a general fix to condi burst damage being a bit too high.

What condition burst damage?

More of a problem at lower skill levels. Things like guardians stacking 6-10 burn stacks.

Though burning does play a role in elementalist being strong right now.

Exedore.6320:

And a general fix to condi burst damage being a bit too high.

Condi burst is like the only real counter to all the Berserker builds running around. I think it’s fine where it’s at, though guardian could probably be shaved a little bit on that end.

Supreme.3164:

The devs cannot nerf the skill level of your opponents..no matter how much you cry on the forums…

Yep, let’s be in denial and pretend mesmer and ele are okay.

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

The devs cannot nerf the skill level of your opponents..no matter how much you cry on the forums…

Yep, let’s be in denial and pretend mesmer and ele are okay.

They are. It’s not the class, it’s the players that outplay you.
Sure, mesmer is somewhat more forgiving now and everybody is jumping on the bandwagon but just because power mesmers have a fighting chance vs. thief now, don’t take out the pitchforks and torches. (The situation is similar to when rangers got their buff and suddenly everybody was playing longbow ranger. It will calm down just like the ranger hype did.)
Eles have some insane sustain but the main problem there seems to be burning, not exactly the class itself.

serenke.4806:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

The devs cannot nerf the skill level of your opponents..no matter how much you cry on the forums…

Yep, let’s be in denial and pretend mesmer and ele are okay.

They are. It’s not the class, it’s the players that outplay you.
Sure, mesmer is somewhat more forgiving now and everybody is jumping on the bandwagon but just because power mesmers have a fighting chance vs. thief now, don’t take out the pitchforks and torches. (The situation is similar to when rangers got their buff and suddenly everybody was playing longbow ranger. It will calm down just like the ranger hype did.)
Eles have some insane sustain but the main problem there seems to be burning, not exactly the class itself.

Yep, that’s why even the top players who main the mentioned classes admit they’re broken, too.

serenke.4806:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

The devs cannot nerf the skill level of your opponents..no matter how much you cry on the forums…

Yep, let’s be in denial and pretend mesmer and ele are okay.

They are. It’s not the class, it’s the players that outplay you.
Sure, mesmer is somewhat more forgiving now and everybody is jumping on the bandwagon but just because power mesmers have a fighting chance vs. thief now, don’t take out the pitchforks and torches. (The situation is similar to when rangers got their buff and suddenly everybody was playing longbow ranger. It will calm down just like the ranger hype did.)
Eles have some insane sustain but the main problem there seems to be burning, not exactly the class itself.

The problem with mesmers is not the survivability they have, that was a needed improvement for them.

The problem people are complaining about is that a shatter/interrupt mesmer can stun you & immobilize you (then throw other conditions on you) then hit you with a 12k+ shatter (through 3k+ armor or 2k armor and protection) while you cannot do anything about it.

And in the chance you stun break out of it and avoid in time they can line up the same combo again within 10 seconds.

The answer to this problem is higher consistent damage for mesmers but lower shatter damage.

As for elementalists & burning the solution is 2 fold
1: Make burning scale almost entirely from +condition damage.
&
2: Lower the number of burns applied per ability but increase their duration. (this keeps over all damage the same or possibly even higher but makes it more over time.

Nerf the warrior. Rampage is straight up unfair. It shouldn’t count for capture point contribution to compensate. Also, warrior mobility on a zerker build is insane. I just want to see it all completely nerfed into the kittening ground.

My list of Nerf target :

1. DD cele ele, with cele amulet as well – they are CRAZY. At this level and long term, I NOW can only think that anet purposely support dd cele ele becuz to maintain The Abjured be NA best guild becuz they use cele ele a lot. Let me tell it to anet, man, people in the world, every country, every province, including me and all other people who aren’t majoring ele, really want to see the drama. Plz stop it…

2. Mesmer (they do like 20k dmg in just 2sec)

3. Rampage (from physical just back to tranform) & Berserker’s Power to maximum of 15% – Currently Rampage always win Necro’s Lich Form and Berserker’s power with “Stick and Move” makes too much dmg

4. Guardian’s Dodge Heal (it heals around 1300 with cleric, which is crazy. just one dodge heals higher than war’s shout heal which is 1000? dodge > skill?)

5. Necro’s too tanky Life (they don’t die even with 3 killshots straight)

cele nerf should be done as fast as possible. I put it #1 in nerf list.

Best Regards,
The Korean Gamer

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

The devs cannot nerf the skill level of your opponents..no matter how much you cry on the forums…

Yep, let’s be in denial and pretend mesmer and ele are okay.

Like nerfing ele and mesmer would change anything…nerf them today..tomorrow you’ll be back with other nerf requests on some other profession :what beats me it’s OP, it’s not because I face better players

kdaddy.5431:

i think its because for 1 the community overall are dumb. There is a forum post to nerf engys since 1 player on twitch is better then everyone else.

There was another player say the same for thief since the other guy from the abjured is really good. People are actually posting nerf classes since the best players are crushing people.

Also i think mesmers need to be toned down a bit but i think eles are fine but a million people will come on here and say different from me which is why i think they will wait.

This, if the developers nerfed every kitten thing u people asked for, pvp would be an absolute mess. it’d be an warrior fest all along. warriors running everywhere. no diveristy whatsoever.

seriously they are people asking for mesmers not to friggin shatter when they are dazed or stunned? like come on man.

Part I nerf necro and ranger
Part II nerf engie and thief

The End

elementalist, mesmer, warrior, guardian is ok. don’t touch pls.

5. Necro’s too tanky Life (they don’t die even with 3 killshots straight)

as the only class in the game without a skill that either reduces incoming damage to 0/invulnerability or stealth its warranted. stop moaning about it. They are supposed to be high hp and tanky.

style.6173:

Serious question? What’s taking so long to make changes to mesmer and dd ele? There have been countless posts at this point with ideas on how to improve it.

Before the skill update, someone from the team mentioned there would be frequent changes since things would be unbalanced. What happened to that?

Pretty much anyone who doesn’t main a mesmer or dd ele at this point knows that they are broken.

I agree that something needs to be changed and I realy hoped for a lot of balance fixes last patch but sadly I there was only a few.

But we all have to see that Anet’s “mission” is not only to listen on the first post on the forums and go from there. They also have to inestigate to see if it realy is OP and why it is OP. After that they have to change programing to deleate, lower or add stuff and then it has to be tested and maby the test will prove that what they did was too much and then they have to repeat it all. This stuff takes time I bet.

Now not only that but before last patch there where two specializations that where way to OP and ruined game for more players than what Mesmers, Burning and Warriors are doing at the moment so they had to turn of these specializations and I think that just to be able to re-activate these Specializations they had to work 100% on these two traits. Now sadly we will have to wait to next teuseday to get another Balance fix and I would be supriced if Warrior, Burning, Cele Ele and Mesmers are not looked at.

Well we can only see, but Patch day are at teusedays and these balance fixes are a little harder to fix to be able to fit in a emergency patch.

I have no facts, this is only what I beleave.

I wrote this after the June balance patch but people seemed to disagree then: it is likely that there will not even be an attempt to really balance things before HOT comes out. Any balance achieved until then would be immidiately destroyed again.

Everybody calm down. Anet is doing the smart thing by (slowly) correcting bugs. Some traits and modifiers may be a bit strong, but we still don’t have a defined meta, and new builds are created everyday (look at the new FT engi that appeared last week and is everywhere). People seem to die less against mesmers and to bring more condi cleanse. Remember when everyone was crying that ranger had been over-buffed? Turns out it wasn’t: we just had to adapt. Let’s adapt first, and if some things are still out of line, balance then.

tldr: Play like every single change was there to stay, and you’ll see that most of these things you call OP won’t be anymore.

Exedore.6320:

Sagat.3285:

Exedore.6320:

And a general fix to condi burst damage being a bit too high.

What condition burst damage?

More of a problem at lower skill levels. Things like guardians stacking 6-10 burn stacks.

Though burning does play a role in elementalist being strong right now.

Guard needs that burn the only thing I would do with burn is lower base damage, not increase the scaling but increase Amplified Wrath then transfer some damage to other conditions since those are really weak righ now. With ele it’s a bit trickier with mesmer it’s obvious CS from GM to Adept while PB got buffed not a good idea,they need to go back to old PU with mantras it’s to the devs to decide if they’re working properly.

At least fix the bugs and UP traits.

Sorel.4870:

Everybody calm down. Anet is doing the smart thing by (slowly) correcting bugs.

Really? Part of the reason GW2 PvP has the “massive” playerbase it does is because they take so long to fix bugs / make balance changes, it is also part of the reason why people get worked up, because it means they have to put up with (or simply leave the game / leave PvP as most have done) some obnoxious OP crap for 6-12 months or they fret about Anet “balancing” some OP thing on their class and nerfing it into oblivion for 6-12 months.

If Anet actually did regular balancing, most people would be a lot more chilled out about these things.

Dd ele is a little op at the moment. My main is ele and I gave up playing him because it was easy to play. I am not a very good spvp player but even I can take down most classes. Necro is fine, a little up. Rangers are ok with some builds but they feel up to me. Warriors are bloody strong and need to be toned down. Mesmers are strong and annoying. I hate their interrupt sound (which I call the song of erectile dysfunction) but they are strong. Engies are up and hard to playand a little boring for my taste. Guardian’s are ok but burning needs to be toned down for both them and ele.

By the way, why do necros still under the condi chain? Shouldn’t they be the no 1 condi class in game? My ele or ranger is way better than my necro at condi stacking and dmg

As a warrior I feel as if Rampage should be nerfed. Its very, very strong. Also I think Mesmer’s burst needs some adjusting; if not the numbers then maybe the cooldown. But I think the numbers are very high considering how easy it is to unleash the damage.

Hopefully they’re looking into both issues.

What in the heavens guys? It has been less than one month and you are already complaining about Balance?

I know you have 0 trust at the moment on that matter, but hell, chill a little bit, most games balance every month or, the lesser, every two weeks.

Instead of asking where is the balance you would be much more useful creating topics regarding how do you believe those classes should be balanced and start a constructive discussion.

If by the end of August we had no balance at all, go on and let ANet now again that they are being slow, but there’s no right saying that when the patch has been out for less than one month.

1. They said they will balance/fix things with a patch every 2 weeks.

2. Highly unlikely we get any major changes before WTS.

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

The devs cannot nerf the skill level of your opponents..no matter how much you cry on the forums…

Yep, let’s be in denial and pretend mesmer and ele are okay.

Like nerfing ele and mesmer would change anything…nerf them today..tomorrow you’ll be back with other nerf requests on some other profession :what beats me it’s OP, it’s not because I face better players

I’m sorry but if you cannot recognize the difference between something being too strong and facing better players, it’s only your fault. If people who actually play the specs say it’s op, I think there’s something wrong and it’s not someone being more skilled than his opponent.

I’d rather they recalculate condition damage first, as that is having the biggest negative impact in PvP at the moment. Rewarding passive condi play with massive damage boosts is doing the opposite of apparently what they said they wanted for the game. This is why they removed Mes on death clone traits.

Poliator.7021:

What in the heavens guys? It has been less than one month and you are already complaining about Balance?

I know you have 0 trust at the moment on that matter, but hell, chill a little bit, most games balance every month or, the lesser, every two weeks.

Instead of asking where is the balance you would be much more useful creating topics regarding how do you believe those classes should be balanced and start a constructive discussion.

If by the end of August we had no balance at all, go on and let ANet now again that they are being slow, but there’s no right saying that when the patch has been out for less than one month.

A few points you need to consider.

1. Their previous record- Balance patches took ~6 months, which is by far the worst of of any non-life support AAA MMO I have ever played

2. The quality of the patch- sorry but this level of imbalance is unacceptable and amateurish. It’s not like there were hidden combos that players found, these are things you would find within an hour of testing.

So you’re saying I need to sit back and have patience when I’ve waited 6+ months for some real balance changes on some builds and even worse 3 years on other builds. There were 3 years worth of balance discussions and ArenaNet ignored them and worse mocked them in livestreams. Why would I give them more time? Why would I think they will suddenly start listening? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is insanity. The only thing that ArenaNet listens to is massive outcry that could potentially cause bad PR for them.

ArenaNet needs to be held accountable for putting out bad patches like these, not given more time.

Distaste.4801:

Poliator.7021:

What in the heavens guys? It has been less than one month and you are already complaining about Balance?

I know you have 0 trust at the moment on that matter, but hell, chill a little bit, most games balance every month or, the lesser, every two weeks.

Instead of asking where is the balance you would be much more useful creating topics regarding how do you believe those classes should be balanced and start a constructive discussion.

If by the end of August we had no balance at all, go on and let ANet now again that they are being slow, but there’s no right saying that when the patch has been out for less than one month.

A few points you need to consider.

1. Their previous record- Balance patches took ~6 months, which is by far the worst of of any non-life support AAA MMO I have ever played

2. The quality of the patch- sorry but this level of imbalance is unacceptable and amateurish. It’s not like there were hidden combos that players found, these are things you would find within an hour of testing.

So you’re saying I need to sit back and have patience when I’ve waited 6+ months for some real balance changes on some builds and even worse 3 years on other builds. There were 3 years worth of balance discussions and ArenaNet ignored them and worse mocked them in livestreams. Why would I give them more time? Why would I think they will suddenly start listening? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is insanity. The only thing that ArenaNet listens to is massive outcry that could potentially cause bad PR for them.

ArenaNet needs to be held accountable for putting out bad patches like these, not given more time.

Honestly the only truly broken thing with this patch at the moment is the mesmer and guardian burst with crazy daze/confusion/burning ticks. They fixed the engi bug already, and if they can fix those 2 others everything will be pretty equal to how it used to be.

They make very steady balance changes rather than knee jerk changes. I’m not saying this is a good or bad thing. But it is the way things are. They make tiny changes to balance very infrequently with the only exception being the recent patch.

With that being said, I would say to everyone to expect mesmer, ele and thief to be the dominant classes in this game for probably at least 18 months. Making 5% shaves to specs every 6 months means that classes/builds which are 15% better than they should be = 18 months to balance. This is just an example to say that you shouldn’t expect any changes really. Mesmer, ele and thief will be the in-demand classes for 18 months at least.

This is a reason why a ton of people quit the game and come back only for balance updates. They come back to see if their class is strong, if not they just go off to do other things before another balance update.

Well Anet is very slow indeed. Some classes/builds are too strong for my taste to play. Dd ele, which is my main, became pretty boring. If this goes on people will get bored due to the imbalance like me. There are several people that left the game for good by the way. This is sad. What it is and what it could have are two very different things.

Who here is asking about balance? Fix the bugs first and foremost.

zinkz.7045:

Sorel.4870:

Everybody calm down. Anet is doing the smart thing by (slowly) correcting bugs.

Really? Part of the reason GW2 PvP has the “massive” playerbase it does is because they take so long to fix bugs / make balance changes, it is also part of the reason why people get worked up, because it means they have to put up with (or simply leave the game / leave PvP as most have done) some obnoxious OP crap for 6-12 months or they fret about Anet “balancing” some OP thing on their class and nerfing it into oblivion for 6-12 months.

If Anet actually did regular balancing, most people would be a lot more chilled out about these things.

Really i thought gw2 problem was because it had few game modes. Then I heard it was because of the lack of rewards, for some odd reason it keeps changing.

PlatinumMember.5274:

zinkz.7045:

Sorel.4870:

Everybody calm down. Anet is doing the smart thing by (slowly) correcting bugs.

Really? Part of the reason GW2 PvP has the “massive” playerbase it does is because they take so long to fix bugs / make balance changes, it is also part of the reason why people get worked up, because it means they have to put up with (or simply leave the game / leave PvP as most have done) some obnoxious OP crap for 6-12 months or they fret about Anet “balancing” some OP thing on their class and nerfing it into oblivion for 6-12 months.

If Anet actually did regular balancing, most people would be a lot more chilled out about these things.

Really i thought gw2 problem was because it had few game modes. Then I heard it was because of the lack of rewards, for some odd reason it keeps changing.

Which is why I said ‘part of the reason’, try reading things properly.

Please stay on topic and keep the discussion constructive…. lot of potential for this thread… lets not have it go to the recycling bin…

Balance patches should really happen weekly. I’m not sure who’s in charge here.

Weekly it’s too much…but monthly at least (if consistent changes).

6 months really never.

zinkz.7045:

PlatinumMember.5274:

zinkz.7045:

Sorel.4870:

Everybody calm down. Anet is doing the smart thing by (slowly) correcting bugs.

Really? Part of the reason GW2 PvP has the “massive” playerbase it does is because they take so long to fix bugs / make balance changes, it is also part of the reason why people get worked up, because it means they have to put up with (or simply leave the game / leave PvP as most have done) some obnoxious OP crap for 6-12 months or they fret about Anet “balancing” some OP thing on their class and nerfing it into oblivion for 6-12 months.

If Anet actually did regular balancing, most people would be a lot more chilled out about these things.

Really i thought gw2 problem was because it had few game modes. Then I heard it was because of the lack of rewards, for some odd reason it keeps changing.

Which is why I said ‘part of the reason’, try reading things properly.

Don’t blame me for getting bored after the 2nd sentence.

Einlanzer.1627:

Balance patches should really happen weekly. I’m not sure who’s in charge here.

You are playing the wrong game if you think Anet has the resources/capacity to do this.

GW2 PVP never took off and as thus is a very small percentage of their revenue which in turn means they are going to allocate a small percentage of their resources on it; like very small. Balance among classes is one of the least reasons as to why GW2 PVP never became big, and is in the bad spot it is now.

PlatinumMember.5274:

zinkz.7045:

Sorel.4870:

Everybody calm down. Anet is doing the smart thing by (slowly) correcting bugs.

Really? Part of the reason GW2 PvP has the “massive” playerbase it does is because they take so long to fix bugs / make balance changes, it is also part of the reason why people get worked up, because it means they have to put up with (or simply leave the game / leave PvP as most have done) some obnoxious OP crap for 6-12 months or they fret about Anet “balancing” some OP thing on their class and nerfing it into oblivion for 6-12 months.

If Anet actually did regular balancing, most people would be a lot more chilled out about these things.

Really i thought gw2 problem was because it had few game modes. Then I heard it was because of the lack of rewards, for some odd reason it keeps changing.

It is all of the above because they failed to build on it. On release SPvP did absolutely nothing for your character and one of the major things in MMO’s is progression. You want to progress your character somehow via stats, loot, looks, story, etc. SPvP gave your main character zero progression. The gamemode was alright as a start, but ArenaNet didn’t expand gamemodes. Some people don’t like sit on point style gameplay so by not having CTF, murder ball, etc cuts them out. Finally their glacial pace of balancing classes can mean a players playstyle is sub-par in PVP and thus both frustrating and pointless. This is exacerbated by the lack of different gamemodes since a build that excels in conquest might not excel in CTF.

If ArenaNet had made SPvP like all other MMO’s where you use your character/gear, given out rewards that helped your character progress, added new gamemodes and not the same gamemode with gimmicks, and done thorough balance patches every 2 months things would have been so much better. Hindsight is 20/20 though, not like they can fix it…

Mantra Mesmer is seriously overboard OP right now
D/D Cele Ele is slightly OP but no where near as broken as Mesmer
The other classes “in the absence of Eles/Mesmers” actually have a good balance
It’s Ele/Mes that is pushing other classes/archetypes out of meta viability

Anyone who disagrees/argues with this, clearly doesn’t run tourneys and more than likely doesn’t watch them either.

style.6173:

Serious question? What’s taking so long to make changes to mesmer and dd ele? There have been countless posts at this point with ideas on how to improve it.

What’s taking so long to make changes to guardian and warrior? Or buff rangers?

You guys are hilarious. Just because a bunch of baddies comes to the forum and complains about 90% l2p issues ANet should jump the gun? Take it easy dude, it’s just a game.

Maybe there hasn’t been any changes because they don’t agree with you? :P

In all seriousness though, I’d much rather see bugs across all the classes fixed first so that we can truly see how each class stacks up, then start nerfing/buffing things. Doing so before bugs are fixed could end up leaving some classes in a better place than anticipated, or a much worse one.

Why to nerf classes that dev’s now playing (ele and mesmer)? Just leave them be. They will be bored soon and will eventually nerf them.(or someday)

Yeah, because toning your post in a condescending and sarcastic manner is certain to evoke their interest in what you have to say.

From the outside it literally looks like there are just a few guys of average intelligence and experience who don’t even play their game. They introduce changes after months of ‘work’ which contrary to their philosophy of careful balancing end up overbuffing the usual suspects (thieves, eles, warriors, recently mesmers), that are then left untouched for months. They have also sorely failed at fixing the ‘bad’ professions (ranger, necro) for 3 years now, despite having the best community and feedback, both of which are much more than they ever deserved, mind you. Sorry, but that’s how it looks like from the outside.

Ohh, forgot to mention that their communication is straight-up garbage. It is so bad that most companies in traditional markets would be pushed out of business if they adopted a similar policy. They fail completely at selling ideas behind changes they make.

Since what they’ve tried so far is obviously not working, maybe it’s time to fund a PTR with constant community-dev interaction on special forums and run test days or something akin to what, you know, all respectable developers do.

TyPin.9860:

style.6173:

Serious question? What’s taking so long to make changes to mesmer and dd ele? There have been countless posts at this point with ideas on how to improve it.

What’s taking so long to make changes to guardian and warrior? Or buff rangers?

You guys are hilarious. Just because a bunch of baddies comes to the forum and complains about 90% l2p issues ANet should jump the gun? Take it easy dude, it’s just a game.

At this point it’s not about buffing Rangers, but fixing them.

I can’t tell if it’s a lack of resources or the profession is too broken at the core to actually fix…the profession mechanic is broken.

On top of the broken pet mechanic that didn’t receive base stats, is too slow to keep up w/the game, bad AI/pathing, unresponsive f2 (assigned to other key also), utilities that kill/freeze the pet (?), and our spirits, traps, and shouts are bad compared to the mandatory condi cleanse and utility of survival/signet and other professions.

add that to the LB reset cd bug and off hand radius nerf and it gets old. We can duel ok so that’s a perk.