Guild Wars 2

Hey guys Puck, A.k.a Ethereal Phantom here, I’m relatively new back to the community after a ridiculously long break. HOWEVER. I am mainly based on structured player vs player.
I’ve always loved guild wars 1 PvP and PVE to be fair and I do not fault this games PVE in anyway, i’d love to get into it but I am just not willing to devout that amount of time to that aspect of the game. I like PVP as it comes down to your skill versus another players skill. True test of teamwork and determines who is the best player of the game. PvE is very much limited to the developers mindset, where as PVP is limitless to each and every players ability.

Anyhow enough about me!

• So, there are a few tweaks that restrict this game from becoming competitive without a tournament to force it. We need tier based PVP, a place where you earn your way up a certain leaderboard and reach a level in which only players of that level can play. This allows the competitive players of PvP find a place among fellow competitive players with perhaps teamspeak or any other software even maybe creating one in-game with a push to talk option to make it more accessible. So in thoery it will be similar to League of Legends where you ride up to a league table to play the best players. Having this will allow professionals to play professionals and newcomers or ‘noobs’ an opportunity and a place to test builds, gain some experience or levels without being completeled stomped and squashed against ‘premades’

Here is a video that speaks vaguely on the matter and of course entertaining visuals of Mesmer domination! Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGQHiBJm3yk

• Another point was accessibility, this is the ability to try the game with as little hassle as possible. PvP is a great place for people to get used to the game and test their skills.
  If more people are to try and attempt to get into PvP the price should perhaps be lowered for a stand alone heart of the mist sPvP edition. Or even making that area of the game free to play. You may think this is counter productive especially considering the number of developers at the arena net headquarters however, word of mouth is a very strong recruitment process and having the game cheap or free means more people will jump on and try opening up the possibility for more gem store purchases and feedback from inexperienced players.
  PvE is a VERY large game when compared to the PvP portion of the game excluding World v world. So it would barely scratch the surface of the full game giving away the sPvP side, it would invite anyone and everyone to test their might. Maybe give the kick PvP has been waiting for!

Constructive feedback and ideas are all welcome! Lets keep this nice and clean to help Arena net instead of always finding faults without solutions.
I’ll post any good ideas on this main part so if this at any point becomes known, the community will be heard.
If they are doing something similar that you heard about in the upcoming Heart of Thorns then correct me, I’d be glad to hear it!

Good intentions, but there are some fundamental problems with making esports in GW2

• Arenanet does not want to do specific solutions. They want one size fits all solutions that are cheap and easy.
• What you suggest is “too expensive” for Arenanet. That’s why they’re forcing Stronghold into the same queue system as Conquest when HoT comes out even though its a fundamentally different game mode.
• You also need a large population to get that kind of competition and incentive to get to that top tier and keep competing. Neither exist and it’s doubtful that it will.
• They balance for all 3 game modes at once, not the PvP separately from PvE, which is a fundamental flaw that prevents competition from happening. Its like adding an RTS to League and saying they’re going to balance both the same way.
• Their QA testing is abysmal. Their track record is pitiful in this regard.
• NCSoft is particularly demanding with their labor costs and this is very well documented on Glassdoor. The reviews for NCSoft are pretty bad, so these kinds of suggestions, which would be listened to and actioned upon by FFXIV’s great dev team, are not acted on here.

TLDR; Anet aint gonna do it. They want to but they can’t.

That is incredibly negative, although I get you’re looking at it realistically, we’re not looking at what they cannot achieve, we are looking at what they need to do. The game has had a very bad upbringing especially from the early days, however last year they hosted a tournament in Boston with a total prize of $50,000 on the line with $25,000 to the winning team. That showed me hope.
It wont be easy as to accept these changes, and of course the player base isn’t the strongest, however without the opportunity to segregate the top players from the bottom we will never know how many true pvpers are out there. If I make a premade from a solid guild, if I do not have a ranking system to face other top teams I will have a % to face pugs. Which is not only unfair on them but also unfair on the competitive team as the challenge was nill.
The game needs to be given a chance and if enough people spoke out about this then perhaps Arena Net will make some much needed changes and priorities based on the demand. The community must grow. Being part of the community could also be donating by purchasing some gems and buying aesthetic items. I don’t PVE but I earn my items through PvP and buy skins.
I believe change can happen and I’ll do my best to push this forward. Countless times have I heard people agree that they wish there was more a competitive edge to PvP. People want it, but I’m hear to assist in voicing it.

With the new trait system coming with elite specs, a lot will change. However, ArenaNet is ONLY focusing on that, like it’s the magicial cure to the small community. It might bring people back, but you shouldn’t have lost them to begin with :\

Trust me, our voices been heard but it’s up to ArenaNet to listen. I’ve stopped saying my opinions and suggestions because of the sheer lack of updates.

Well I came back from a 3 year break. This game has improved drastically and does what it does well. Maybe the new current elite specs will help it but without a competitive separation then it will always be casual. People need to come out and grow with a team to create more competitive arenas.
Well I’m here now and I want to make change. I am really enjoying this game and if only enough people who actually did could help push this game forward. They just see the PvP in a negative way reflecting its community. They need to look past simple issues such as balancing, but encourage team play by introducing what I’ve mentioned above.

Puck balance is actually in a really great spot right now compared to the past. And how can you talk about balance when you haven’t even been here for 3 years?

Because I have noticed and felt a change. I’ve played against all classes, competitive and non competitive and I’ve watched tournaments and played in structured teams. I don’t personally know every class by first person hand. But I have faced multiple if not ALL the META builds there is and all the non, I feel balance is in the plays not the classes. A power ranger can not dominate in the competitive scene if he uses the simple build rotation and not with the full combination of the 2hander at which point he is skilled. The class then gets nerfed due to the inability to counter them due to inexperience.
The game is at a balance right now where they can comfortable focus on something a little more important. I am a mesmer if that helps, a reasonably high skill cieling to use, you can imagine the frustration that I have when to pull off a deadly combo I must play the piano on my keyboard whilst the ranger is just giving off pot shots and dropping me. However due to better plays after some beatings, I can safely handle a power ranger in most given situations. The OP classes that the game talks about are minor.

Name me one build that is OP and I will counter it with my class:

Meeeeeh. At the moment PvP is too cheesy to appeal to the esports community. There are a lot of reasons why it’s cheesy ranging from balance to conquest itself.

What is cheesy? That it is an RPG, an aesthetically pleasing game and well crafted infrastructure making it all work? With good commentators like the 2 that do it quite often keep it up, and stay loyal to Arena net then they have potential. HoT will show a make or change in the growth or degeneration of the community, the expansion may solve their financing enabling them to make some significant changes. But I believe this game has another few years of life and a very succesful one at that. They are in the making process of the expansion still so this is the best time to voice opinions, constructive feed back and SOLUTIONS to help them priorities PvP.

Cheesy is cheesy. Like cheese in taste, smell, or consistency.

Alexander.9810:

Good intentions, but there are some fundamental problems with making esports in GW2

• Arenanet does not want to do specific solutions. They want one size fits all solutions that are cheap and easy.
• What you suggest is “too expensive” for Arenanet. That’s why they’re forcing Stronghold into the same queue system as Conquest when HoT comes out even though its a fundamentally different game mode.
• You also need a large population to get that kind of competition and incentive to get to that top tier and keep competing. Neither exist and it’s doubtful that it will.
• They balance for all 3 game modes at once, not the PvP separately from PvE, which is a fundamental flaw that prevents competition from happening. Its like adding an RTS to League and saying they’re going to balance both the same way.
• Their QA testing is abysmal. Their track record is pitiful in this regard.
• NCSoft is particularly demanding with their labor costs and this is very well documented on Glassdoor. The reviews for NCSoft are pretty bad, so these kinds of suggestions, which would be listened to and actioned upon by FFXIV’s great dev team, are not acted on here.

TLDR; Anet aint gonna do it. They want to but they can’t.

sadly this ^^

NCSOFT was literary main reason why i didn’t want to get GW2 on first place and i stayed away from it for a while… had my bad experience with previous titles :/

if balance is horrible right now, just w8 until one more profession comes out and every one getting new weapons, skills, trait lines… this forum will drown in tears.

It has all of those. People love and enjoy the PvP which is why people still play it. They enjoy the game, then loose and suddenly pull all the problems out without any thought as to why they lost and get frustrated. Its always criticism, but hardly constructive.

If you look at the NA scene, you only see the same players in different teams under different rosters. There is no growth of team at all because Anet doesn’t care to implement ladders and leagues for casual competitiveness. Basically Great and good players are well known because of their skill and reputation, but for upcomers and other people it is already a struggle to find a group of people to play with. The only chance people have to get their name known is AG and aspectGG, but we all know those aren’t enough. Automated tournament would be fine, but again, anet doesn’t care.

The competitive scene in this game is dead as a doorknob.

That is why we must voice out the change they need to implement and the reasons as to why so they can understand it is for the best way to buff the community and not diverge them. PvE has always been solo friendly and casual world map play. PvP needs separation to create a drive for players to become the best thus creating a competitive scene. I’ma keep making noise until I get a response from them.

Puck.1509:

That is why we must voice out the change they need to implement and the reasons as to why so they can understand it is for the best way to buff the community and not diverge them. PvE has always been solo friendly and casual world map play. PvP needs separation to create a drive for players to become the best thus creating a competitive scene. I’ma keep making noise until I get a response from them.

I support you 100% and agree with everything you said, but you’ll either get banned for spamming or ignored… That’s the current state of pvp forum meta right now

If that be the case, then it will truly show Arena nets true colours. I will then believe my voice is null. Although I will continue to create content showcasing this games beauty. If I am banned I will appeal. If I an brushed aside I will quit and move on. But I am willing to lay it all down and do my bit for this community. I’ll take the risk rather than fear what ‘could’ happen.

Puck.1509:

It has all of those. People love and enjoy the PvP which is why people still play it. They enjoy the game, then loose and suddenly pull all the problems out without any thought as to why they lost and get frustrated. Its always criticism, but hardly constructive.

I’m not one of them. In fact I often find myself more unhappy with the game after winning than losing.

Sometimes the win feels decisive and convincing but most of the time it’s like meeeeeeeh because I just exploited another broken mechanic or defended the node long enough for the game to count to 500.

But then that was the teams inability to knock you off your point. You can stand their all day but when I come I’ll cause trouble for you. I enjoy even my losses as I am never rolled on anymore, I provide the best carrying plays I can for my team, a support in an aggressive way you could say. I rarely get boring games.
Do you still play is the question?

Spirigo.2897:

I’m not one of them. In fact I often find myself more unhappy with the game after winning than losing.

I hate having games where my team wins after just steamrolling the other side. I hate winning when people on my team trash talk others even though the fact the other side isn’t as good has more to do with matchmaking than the players fault. Same reason why i hate losing when my team gets steam rolled or i get matched against premades. Not all games have to be fair, but when you consistently get matches where you get destroyed or you destroy the other side, somethings obviously wrong with matchmaking/ queues.

Another reason why gw2’s pvp isn’t as great as it can be is because of the maps and game modes. There are few maps so that ruins the variation, but even more than that the game mode itself is extremely complicated. Rotations are probably the hardest thing for new players to understand which is discouraging, especially if they are trying to learn their class at the same time. Having a complex game mode with very complicated classes does not cater itself to growing a community. Not saying they need to dumb down the game but they need a couple more maps with better designs than the kitten in unranked and a gamemode that is simpler for newer players. Also maybe some more support for newer players coming into pvp and intermediate players who are trying to get better. This could also make for more variation in streams and tournaments.

Puck.1509:

But then that was the teams inability to knock you off your point. You can stand their all day but when I come I’ll cause trouble for you. I enjoy even my losses as I am never rolled on anymore, I provide the best carrying plays I can for my team, a support in an aggressive way you could say. I rarely get boring games.
Do you still play is the question?

I still play a bunch of ranked matches to get my dailies done. Maybe a few more after that. Mostly because I feel like playing GW2 but don’t have an awful lot of things I’m willing to commit to before HoT. So PvP it is.

I just dont like to be given points over time. I’d much rather do a thing, get a point, do a thing, get a point and so on without anything ticking over time.

I think people avoid the unranked maps as they are afraid of performing as they believe it serves certain classes for the best, however the game is about placement, movement and timing, if you are up against a ranger on the map skyhammer and that class is heavy on knock-backs or a hammer warrior which favors the drop offs. Knowing this it can be easy to counter. But because they are unwilling to learn new maps other than what is provided it never becomes competitive. Look how people took stronghold, they slapped it on the unranked and everyone complained while it was just there so most people could experience it and they could generate the most feedback! It has hardly had a chance to become competitive yet and already it is being harassed!

What if Anet are afraid of criticism also and do their best to fix unnecessary issues due to the bad apples that shouter louder than the content. This may also restrict their decisions on game changing mechanics as they are afraid of the stick they may get for it, don’t forget their income is limited to the gem store! So Heart of Thorns is their attempt at a recovery, a potential chance to give the community what it needs, its not too late.

What you are suggesting OP is pretty much what they have in place now.

Practice = Practice
Unranked = Non-leaderboard match (new teams)
Ranked = Leaderboard match (pro teams)

if the intellectual properties of gw1 / gw2 / anet / ncsoft were sold over to valve instead, then perhaps they may be hope for gw2 ’s esports.

though it will never happen in this life time.

ever.

Sube Dai.8496:

What you are suggesting OP is pretty much what they have in place now.

Practice = Practice
Unranked = Non-leaderboard match (new teams)
Ranked = Leaderboard match (pro teams)

That’s not even close to what he’s suggesting.

Newbies still want competitive play and not going into some hotjoin trash mode where people are screwing around.

Exactly, hotdog. Anyone has the ability to join either ranked or unranked with no filter to experience. Why play unranked when there’s more at stake on ranked, this is the question I always asked myself. I didn’t care about loosing but I always want a chance to play a good competitive match. Problem is, I may be pinned against anyone, a noob.. a PvE player, build testers etc. Regardless of your skill level we can all just simply jump on to ranked. Where do the pros ever feel like pros then? By a dragon finisher? Well I’ll just buy one. It is too easy for the best and too hard for the beginners, and once the beginners become better they are in the exact same match ups as when they started so it just gets a little stale.

Only Anet could have made SPvP successful. At this point, it is years too late. SPvP was bleeding out for a long time and it is now dead.
Anyone thinking Stronghold or anything else HoT brings will revive SPvP are delusional. They can’t even figure out a proper leaderboard.

It might change things for the better. Hard to say at this point.

I suspect that Stronghold will suffer from some sort of broken, lame mechanic though.

A game can take 4 years to flesh itself out, its never too late. Leaderboards is not then main issue here its simply the seperation of good and bad players and more variety to the mathcmaking, leaderboards will not change the gameplay

Meh, possibly.

But I doubt Anet has the resources to pull it off. They bit off more than they could chew with the whole esports thing. They have only 300 people with the team apparently being very artist-centric.

What they need is more programmers and game designers to keep PvP in a top notch condition and even do something crazy like letting people play GW2 PvP for free.

It won’t work. I will be very surprised if GW2 PvP gets any more recognition than it does now.

This game is more about PvE, great community and chilling above all.

I 100% agree they should sell PvP at half price or even free. I had discussed this with a couple people before an i had a mix of responses ranging from unfairness to PvErs or it being too unrealistic to even think about. Thing is if you measure the scale of PvE compared to PvP its ha-uge! PvP is a fraction not including WvW so making sPvP more accessible as a cheaper standalone product or even free could help bring publicity into the game. From their the gem store prospers an funds anet even more. But they have to start thinking about an acting on these ideas, they have to be willing to take a risk.
Only problem is, it is more NCsoft we have to convince when it comes to retail.

I think it would be nice if we could individually have different ranks based on which profession we’re on, as well. For example, I play a lot better when I’m on my elementalist or thief than I do when I’m on my guardian or ranger, so my elementalist ‘rank’ would be higher than my ranger ‘rank’ and when I’m on my ranger I would be put against lower ranked people until I improve enough to rank up.

Maybe have an overall account rank to display on the leaderboards but then for matchmaking purposes have it based on whichever profession you’re playing on. Idk, I just find it really hard to motivate myself to play on professions I’m not that great at. XD

I think a pvp only mode for free or very cheap ($5) would be a great idea. They still can have the gem store for skins and such so they can still make some money. Pvp players don’t consume the resources of game development that pve does so I don’t think it would really be costing them much if players never bought anything from it. And I’m sure there will always been the ones that love unique skins to make them their money.

Could be possible that they changed it so that you can only join a pvp match from hotm because they want to make pvp for free.

Maybe?!

Kako, I like that idea, would be a little complicated I think but possible. It would add another layer to mastering a class as well.

I think Heart of Thorns will reveal all. But still things can be changed before it is released so if we get our voices heard maybe this is guild wars 2 big break!

We can only dream for that is all we ever do

My ideas to make PvP more popular:

Big prize money (with your sales people could almost play this game for free and take part in it)
Crowd-funded PvP tournies, you chip in, you want to play.
PvP armor to grind for (like FoW armor, would encourage alot of players to come and to stay around)
Grind titles like in GW1 would encourage more pugs to form
More balance patches (Although I actually think the game is pretty bala atm)
More giveaways on Twitch
PvP mode!! (as mentioned above)
Cash prizes for stronghold ladder winners (not Llama)
Cash everywhere!
A TV/viral video of PvP footage(WTS Footage) instead of the few GW2 PvE adverts I’ve seen
Pay SodaPoppin to play the game once a week at least (PvP)
Make the streaming-client the default option!
Make it cool! Bring out cool stuff in the gem-store so the West loses it’s images that MMORPG are for the nerdy ones, let me dress like Lil’ Wayne, or like a hipster in Jeans trainers!!
Continue the support for amateur cups
Just target us better ArenaNet!! If i didn’t know anyone who plays video games online PC then I would never have gotten into gw2 and I’m sure they’re a lot of kids out there like that

Puck you have good intentions but in my opinion, it’s futile.

From what I can see, ArenaNets combat team isn’t big enough. At one point Powerr could go toe to toe with me, now, he’s not much of a challenge. ArenaNet has fallen behind their own design and it’s up to them alone to admit they need to catch back up.

Genoshock.2104:

More balance patches (Although I actually think the game is pretty bala atm)

Balance patches are not only good to balance stuff, but also to change the meta if the meta gets stale even if it’s balanced (like currently) it gets really boring.

Genoshock.2104:

Pay SodaPoppin to play the game once a week at least (PvP)

This would maybe be the smartest thing they could do to advertise their game.
Doesn’t have to be sodapoppin just get some big live streamers, it would push gw2 pretty hard imo.

Genoshock.2104:

My ideas to make PvP more popular:

…
PvP armor to grind for (like FoW armor, would encourage alot of players to come and to stay around)
Grind titles like in GW1 would encourage more pugs to form
…

These exist already.

Rofl it looks like I won’t even need to consider HoT now.

www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/37e1y5/notes_from_famitsu_interview_at_nantes/

FFXIV is going to have seasons, ladders, and prizes for top PvP groups with a MMR based matchmaking system and, of course, cross server queues. Each season resets ranking and the best get titles prizes and probably international recognition b/c thats just how we roll.

They just had a conference in a kittening French chateau in Nantes btw XD

Alexander.9810:

Rofl it looks like I won’t even need to consider HoT now.

www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/37e1y5/notes_from_famitsu_interview_at_nantes/

FFXIV is going to have seasons, ladders, and prizes for top PvP groups with a MMR based matchmaking system and, of course, cross server queues. Each season resets ranking and the best get titles prizes and probably international recognition b/c thats just how we roll.

They just had a conference in a kittening French chateau in Nantes btw XD

Your signature, genuinely makes me wonder why you even post here.

Might as well recruit some of you obviously disgruntled ppl to upgrade your MMO experience XD

You cannot tout an esport game with teams comprised of the same five classes (+ the occasional mesmer) over and over again. The variety in team composition, or more specifically, the lack thereof, is part of the problem.
Guard, Ele, Thief, Warrior, Engie = majority of team compositions, with a mesmer playing key roles occasionally.

Necro/ranger – sidelined, with no hope of rejoining the fight.

the game is about mobility, stability, blocks, evades, invulnerabilities, condi-clears (including group condi clears) and healing all combined into one class (the above 5). Classes without these things are left out, so what you get is a repeat of the same fights again and again and again. It’s boring.

Sure, you encounter these classes in solo ranked/unranked play, but teams, aside from a few, don’t take these classes because they cannot do all the above, and thus are focus fired and dropped in a minute, thus contributing nothing.

you can not have a team without thief.
but you can not have two thieves.

you can miss any class but you can not miss a thief in your team if you want to be competitive…

lighter.2708:

you can not have a team without thief.
but you can not have two thieves.

you can miss any class but you can not miss a thief in your team if you want to be competitive…

not true… some teams won weekly esl w/o having a thief~

Cynz.9437:

lighter.2708:

you can not have a team without thief.
but you can not have two thieves.

you can miss any class but you can not miss a thief in your team if you want to be competitive…

not true… some teams won weekly esl w/o having a thief~

tell me a team that’s 1st in esl and ToL and doesn’t have a thief

Cynz.9437:

lighter.2708:

you can not have a team without thief.
but you can not have two thieves.

you can miss any class but you can not miss a thief in your team if you want to be competitive…

not true… some teams won weekly esl w/o having a thief~

Let’s see, people laughed at R55 on twitch chat for not having a thief in ESL, later they added a thief and they beat oRNG in ToL with mesmer, and SALT the team that doesn’t have a thief got reckt in ToL

You can t create succesful competitive PvP in a game that has pve.

vlad.4871:

You can t create succesful competitive PvP in a game that has pve.

Says who?