Guild Wars 2

ELO hell? Stuck in bronze? Maybe you’re just bad :^)

We know that no good player is stuck in bronze. Or even silver/gold for that matter lol. The games there are so easy to carry that its not even possible to be stuck there unless you belong there.

ELO hell is a myth.

Sigh… no one took my bait post on the forums. Ah well.

He’s right guys, if you’re a pro you can carry your team out of ELO hell…… /facepalm

Not everyone is a pro and they are the pros for a reason…..

I couldn’t imagine a regular Mesmer doing this lol

People are legit delusional, even when there is obvious evidence that if you are good enough you will move out of your division and move to where you belong. But nah, still blaming teammates and not themselves. This further reinforce what I’ve been saying this whole season. And I’ll use the cliche “git gud”

This is a 4v5. Sure most of us wouldn’t be able to carry a 4v5 but 5v5? Easy since you should be winning all 1vf1s and forcing their team to commit more than 1 person to fight you meaning your team wins the other nodes.

But you guys keep deluding yourself and saying that it’s the system working against you :^)

I also lol @ people who cite that they’re vets with XXXX hours and lots of wvw roaming experience as if that matters when wvw roaming on NA is just hitting doors and sniping solo pve players doing their dailies & hours played means nothing if you’ve been bad all these years.

Kratos, come on man, you think I was born yesterday?

It’s called tanking placement, mmr boost from alt account and RNG to the top. You “pros” can BS other people, but not me.

That is European bronze though. that is like starting American gold. still not possible to get out of US bronze xD

Faux Play.6104:

That is European bronze though. that is like starting American gold. still not possible to get out of US bronze xD

There you go, tell ’em.

matches are stacked. i cant climb past high tier gold on my alt account while im legendary on my main playing 3 or 4 games a day keeping the same tier pretty much. to me this proves there can be circumstances under which its near impossible to climb out. take for example my last game on my alt. i went druid. i won some 2v1s and supported team fights best i could. they couldnt kill kitten while my teammates were getting downed left and right. thief on our team wasnt decapping far and constantly getting downed in team fights. i went guardian half way through and we started winning. we got tranq and we looked like we could win. until i saw our whole team fighting off point near home..and lo and behold what do i see? home getting decapped and me pinging to get home, while i win the 2v1 fight against me on mid. they go on to lose the between node fight while home gets capped…wth! this is high end gold. just 1 game away from platinuum. these guys are blatantly making mistakes that the other team isnt and mistakes that i know better NOT to make. i know im better than high end gold. i have a main account that i do well with in legendary. so yes under the right cirumstances there IS an ELO hell

lethotix.2973:

maybe not an ele hell but…matches are stacked. i cant climb past high tier gold on my alt account while im legendary on my main playing 3 or 4 games a day keeping the same tier pretty much. to me this proves there can be circumstances under which its near impossible to climb out. take for example my last game on my alt. i went druid. i won some 2v1s and supported team fights best i could. they couldnt kill kitten while my teammates were getting downed left and right. thief on our team wasnt decapping far and constantly getting downed in team fights. i went guardian half way through and we started winning. we got tranq and we looked like we could win. until i saw our whole team fighting off point near home..and lo and behold what do i see? home getting decapped and me pinging to get home, while i win the 2v1 fight against me on mid. this is high end gold. just 1 game away from platinuum. these guys are blatantly making mistakes that the other team isnt and mistakes that i know better NOT to make. i know im better than high end gold. i have a main account that i do well with in legendary. so yes under the right cirumstances there IS an ELO hell

That’s not ELO hell, that’s just one bad game. Surely if you played another 20 games you won’t have the same issue 20 times in the row if you’re really a legendary player.

That’s the point. These people are stuck in bronze with win ratios like 16-25 and are blaming the system when it’s obviously their fault they suckkkkkkkk.

not to mention on multiple games the whole team dying on mid point to an all out trap guard. they dont even daze now. how the hell do you get killed by the traps.

fishball im giving an example of one bad game….literally all my games are close to that.

fishball how to you explain me being legendary on one account and maintaining that by playing mutliple games a day, and not being able to get out of gold on an alt account. that proves there is something fishy with the system. either way if i belong to legendary or to gold. maintaining the 2 on different accounts..hmm

lethotix.2973:

fishball how to you explain me being legendary on one account and maintaining that by playing mutliple games a day, and not being able to get out of gold on an alt account. that proves there is something fishy with the system. either way if i belong to legendary or to gold. maintaining the 2 on different accounts..hmm

There’s no point… I have an alt that I play at work that only started ranked 2 seasons ago that shot strait up to platinum but my main account that had an establish 50/50 win rate before season 1 even started is having a hell of a time climbing out of silver due to team mates and the way matchmaking works. I think by the math alone my main account has dropped nearly 600 rating points in quality of players and is still dropping while the alt is climbing. I would gladly welcome a hard reset to my main account MMR if it meant it could have the same privileges as my alt where the system thinks I’m new and puts me with good players that are meant to carry me. I could be mistaken on how this works though.

It also doesn’t help he is using a pro player to advocate what the average player should be able to do, they are pros for a reason, just a bit of logic is my perspective.

It’s sad that a “pro” player would go take an account go through bronze and mock new players. I watched the stream and tbh it looked like he was just pumping his ego, trash talking to bronze players. Now those players will see that they’ve been smashed 5v4 and sure they will think “oh yeah this matchmaking is crap” when in fact you have sad people like him boosting their own ego by “smurfing”.

Junior.3928:

It’s sad that a “pro” player would go take an account go through bronze and mock new players. I watched the stream and tbh it looked like he was just pumping his ego, trash talking to bronze players. Now those players will see that they’ve been smashed 5v4 and sure they will think “oh yeah this matchmaking is crap” when in fact you have sad people like him boosting their own ego by “smurfing”.

I think this is just an experiment on his part. Good for him to do regardless of whether he says annoying stuff where they can’t hear it. And they are correct, in a sense, that matchmaking is crap if players that bad are being matched against Helseth. Although I’m sure that’s more to do with his account’s current lack of MMR history.

Junior.3928:

It’s sad that a “pro” player would go take an account go through bronze and mock new players. I watched the stream and tbh it looked like he was just pumping his ego, trash talking to bronze players. Now those players will see that they’ve been smashed 5v4 and sure they will think “oh yeah this matchmaking is crap” when in fact you have sad people like him boosting their own ego by “smurfing”.

Ha! Pathetic!

These are our “pros”. -snicker-

Junior.3928:

It’s sad that a “pro” player would go take an account go through bronze and mock new players. I watched the stream and tbh it looked like he was just pumping his ego, trash talking to bronze players. Now those players will see that they’ve been smashed 5v4 and sure they will think “oh yeah this matchmaking is crap” when in fact you have sad people like him boosting their own ego by “smurfing”.

If they watched it they could see why they were losing. Attacking through confusion, having a signet to make attacks unlockable and not using it etc…

JTGuevara.9018:

You cheerleaders don’t quit do you? I see RIGHT through this BS.

It’s called ALT and DUO. I trust not one thing these pro-leaguers say or do.

If DUO is so good, why don’t you do it?

I wonder what ridiculous things people will say when he reach legendary rank from 600 rating…solo…

meh…probably more ridiculous things…salt is strong on the forum.

eh why it’s impossible to carry like that on ele…

Oh look if you aren’t supposed to be in a lower division because you are supposed to be higher you can carry.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh look if you aren’t supposed to be in a lower division because you are supposed to be higher you can carry.

So if someone has 2 accounts, 1 in bronze and 1 in legendary, where does that player belong?

sephiroth.4217:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh look if you aren’t supposed to be in a lower division because you are supposed to be higher you can carry.

So if someone has 2 accounts, 1 in bronze and 1 in legendary, where does that player belong?

Need more info than that because a player can place in Legendary doesn’t mean they belong there, same with Bronze. Then that questions goes even further into the hypothetical which is of no use discussing.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh look if you aren’t supposed to be in a lower division because you are supposed to be higher you can carry.

W8 how ele supposed to carry (mechanically speaking) like Mesmer? Tempest beats chrono at healing, protection spam and condi cleanse…and that’s it.
Mind that I didn’t said anything about my rating- right now I am satisfied with my place^^.

sephiroth.4217:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh look if you aren’t supposed to be in a lower division because you are supposed to be higher you can carry.

So if someone has 2 accounts, 1 in bronze and 1 in legendary, where does that player belong?

I don’t think even ANet has the answer for you. Although if that person has a second account in Legendary and his main is in Bronze I’d tell him to stay quite about his main account and just continue to ride the freelo train to a top 250 like most of the players on that list are.

It’s good that there is a game out. That will soft simulation something of a competition giving those that don’t have a chance elsewhere. A legitimate chance of getting lucky and to look and feel bad kitten . These players more then likely would have quit their life if they was exposed to another actual competition based on the skill of a player. Instead they can sit here and just cheese their way to a leader board position thru RNG. Then talk down on people who wasn’t as lucky as them.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

sephiroth.4217:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh look if you aren’t supposed to be in a lower division because you are supposed to be higher you can carry.

So if someone has 2 accounts, 1 in bronze and 1 in legendary, where does that player belong?

Need more info than that because a player can place in Legendary doesn’t mean they belong there, same with Bronze. Then that questions goes even further into the hypothetical which is of no use discussing.

I put more info into a previous post for my situation. Scroll up a few replies.

I love the new system, but like with any new system it comes with some flaws. I don’t care what division I am, the only thing I care about is having good enjoyable games and a system that works a bit more accurately would help resolve this issue, for me. I can see and experience the flaws, but I can’t quite put my finger on what’s causing it, it almost appears to be a conjunction of a few things causing these issues.

To a certain extent, people are right. You CAN carry yourselves up and you WILL be matched with better players but the issue is getting there.

A good player plays a meta build and wins….

and this is unexpected?

I can do the same at higher tiers with non-meta builds.

Of course superior setups and players are going to climb. It’s the law of averages. But what team rolls who is still always going to be a determining factor. Can’t escape it. Not much point arguing against it or dismissing it.

The only true fact is that GW2 is a hell of a game, that is all XD

Helseth is one of those people that evokes extreme reactions in people. I watched his stream today for about 1.5hrs. I can see the good and the bad of his experiment starting at bronze.

While watching, I didn’t hear him say anything about his teammates or opposition, that I myself haven’t said loud and angrily at the computer screen many many times.

There were times when errors were made that he just couldn’t compensate. To see him typing away in team chat, only to be ignored, is pretty typical of a bronze level match.

TBH after watching, I felt optimistic about my own situation. I am most definitely NOT at Helseth’s skill level. To see, at times, a player of his caliber unable to counteract pure idiocy made me feel a little less like a mere mortal.

I will be interested to see where this experiment leads, and enjoy the opportunity to watch one of the best players in the game.

JTGuevara.9018:

You cheerleaders don’t quit do you? I see RIGHT through this BS.

It’s called ALT and DUO. I trust not one thing these pro-leaguers say or do.

lol

because his enemy are bronze.
in this block block block 12345 rotation game. if your enemy they don’t know find the window of that kittening rotation.
1V4 is kittening easy.

he is amazing player, you can see for it’s rotations and awareness of the map.
However that condi chrono bunker setup made my eyes bleed…

Mr Godlike.6098:

I wonder what ridiculous things people will say when he reach legendary rank from 600 rating…solo…

meh…probably more ridiculous things…salt is strong on the forum.

eh why it’s impossible to carry like that on ele…

Not going to happen if he just plays solo. Somewhere in gold/plat he will hit the wall of abysmal rating gains and terrible team lottery. Also don’t forget his top 10 buddies love to farm teams 300-400 ranks below them (on which Helseth will land).

As i said in other thread, you can only climb when you can basically win 1v5.

Mr Godlike.6098:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh look if you aren’t supposed to be in a lower division because you are supposed to be higher you can carry.

W8 how ele supposed to carry (mechanically speaking) like Mesmer? Tempest beats chrono at healing, protection spam and condi cleanse…and that’s it.
Mind that I didn’t said anything about my rating- right now I am satisfied with my place^^.

You need to do damage. It´s near impossible to carry with a full healing support. Ele metabuild is not suited for uncoordinated and lower level games. I use sage not menders and fight my way up but it´s very hard.

That video proves nothing and especially not the point you guys are making. Maybe 5% of the player base is exceptional good at this game. A normal gold player won’t carry a 4v5 in this match.
Helseth couldn’t carry any of his three matches in conquest even while he was winning his 1v3. All the matches were lost.
The same thing will happen if he has players on his side that were on the enemy team at this 4v5. Why? He can win a 1v2, maybe a 1v3, but if his team still loses the other two bases it’s game over.
So how do you think a player that is not Helseth should win a match on silver or gold and carry a really bad team?

And not to forget he has a slight “new account” advantage not starting at 1200 and so he is fighting new people or people that are blowing games because they tank rating or just farm 3 pips per game.

We will see how these matches end when he finally is in silver.

Ok. Let’s say you are right and there is no elo hell, as you can easily carry your team out of bronze, but…

Doesn’t that mean you carry bunch of noobs out of rating they belong to? This is flawed logic or flawed system, as people who belong in that rating will be carried by skilled players without breaking a sweat. Please think before you post.

The main problem with current rating system is you get punished/awarded for the team effort while having no control of you team skill/composition.

Solution: Introduce smaller maps for 3v3 premades and start 5v5 premades as well. Now this is competitive play, organized team vs organized team instead of pug vs pug.

But as I see it now development is stuck on introducing more 5v5 maps instead of focusing on fixing the problems that haunt pvp.

xKratos.4758:

People are legit delusional, even when there is obvious evidence that if you are good enough you will move out of your division and move to where you belong. But nah, still blaming teammates and not themselves. This further reinforce what I’ve been saying this whole season. And I’ll use the cliche “git gud”

Logic isn’t your strength is it…

A top 0.01% player rising through the divisions means nothing, other than that is what a top player can do, now I have no idea whether things like “ESO hell” exist or not, I have not even played the game in months, but Helseth being able to rise though the divisions is meaningless in terms of that.

It has zero bearing on whether you could have a situation where say a player who is of mid gold ability gets stuck in silver, because even though he may be better than the players around him on average, he is not sufficiently better to carry enough (unlike Helseth) to get him out of there without a bit of luck, so if he doesn’t get that luck…

GW2 is very dependent on your teammates, it isn’t like most first person shooters for example where even being a little better makes a big difference and lets people carry hard.

If laughably termed “pro” players in the top 30 cry on stream how they lost a game because player X made a bad decision, then I can only imagine what it is like for some guy in silver surrounded by players that make bad decisions all the time.

I’v won gold ranked 4v5s. Doesnt mean a thing. All i would get from his streams so far is "u might get out of bronze if u are a legendary 2 time world champion playing kitten meta condi mesmer with portal and moa. You “only” get full map control with that class." I dont think any other class could do that except maybe thief. He can recover his teams misstakes easy in bronze cause he has map coverage and condi is so strong against plebs. Wait for higher tiers where half of the enemy team is semi decent and can actually punish you so hard u cant recover your teams misstakes that easy.

He’s good and all and very entertaining and i wish he can get up to legendary but i highly doubt it. I hope he proves us wrong

He won’t always have the same players in his team. They can get carried for one or two games, but will lose as soon there is nobody to carry them, while he as a good players will continue to climb. All players have to deal with good and bad teams (relative to the opponent). There is no rule that gives certain players only the better or only the weaker team. You can view the team as a random factor that is the same for all players in the long run. So the only deciding factor is the player itself and that’s how the system can determine personal MMR in a team game. It just needs a big enough sample size (= games played) to work properly. That’s why it is imo questionable, if a MMR reset every season (even if its only a “soft” one) is a good idea, but overall the system works.

Helseth isn’t the first or only one who tries to climb out of bronze. There has been others, showing their success on stream or youtube videos. Meanwhile those that claim, that they are stuck in bronze hell just because they are unlucky, show nothing but whining on the forums. Coincidence?

saying that hes pro player as excuse why u cannot climb like he does is fokin hilarious.

I haven’t been following his climb so I’m really curious about this. Where did he start at, where is he now, and what kind of win rate is he getting during his climb?

Shaogin.2679:

I haven’t been following his climb so I’m really curious about this. Where did he start at, where is he now, and what kind of win rate is he getting during his climb?

I think he started around 650 rating and now bronze 3.Don’t remember his win rate, but I think he lost like 2 games.

He started at 600

Junior.3928:

It’s sad that a “pro” player would go take an account go through bronze and mock new players. I watched the stream and tbh it looked like he was just pumping his ego, trash talking to bronze players. Now those players will see that they’ve been smashed 5v4 and sure they will think “oh yeah this matchmaking is crap” when in fact you have sad people like him boosting their own ego by “smurfing”.

I was lucky/unlucky enough to play with and against Helseth when he was getting to rank 20 in unranked so he could actually do this stream. He wasn’t mocking players openly in chat or anything, the only time I saw him get close to raging was when my team beat his because quite literally everyone on his team couldn’t win a 1v1 and could be stalled when they had 2 vs 1 of ours. We just let people attack Helseth, leave and someone else came to keep him busy.

You’re also missing the point of what he’s doing, he’s showing that if you really don’t belong in Bronze then you will move to where you do belong. So long as that account ends in high platinum/legendary the point is proved. I mean did you see the people in Bronze? At one point they were all stood on mid point using /dance while Helseth was winning the other 2 points.

In order to get to where you should be though you have to play a class that can in some way control the fights. Thief and mesmer are best due to their high mobility, warrior and druid are also very good for this as a skilled player can turn fights or spike someone down. Support roles are much harder to carry on, to the point where you could quite possibly be rated lower than your skill but then again, you should play more than 1 class tbh.

I just have tip my hat to Helseth in his pledge to see the system from our eyes. That being said holy kitten he is really really good. Though I’d have to agree if you are not at his level of investment of playing then just lol.

Helseth good stuff thus far, keep up the good work. That also being said, nope. That’s the type of dedication one puts forth in a balanced competitive PvP game. You can really see he fails sometimes too, and he really really have to try hard to win those matches. And he’s a ESL rated player that’s struggles to win thos matches. Tho I’d love to see him record all of his matches during this endeavor of his.

To all of the trust fund freelo train riders just saying others suck. I’ll be willing to bet %95 of them would not be able to come close to pulling that off. But meh I don’t really take things serious from people what just inherited a good situation talking down to people who actually have to fight tooth and nail to get what they got for little or no effort.

Other then that I have nothing else to add.

lethotix.2973:

fishball ………..there is something fishy with the system.

Teeheee …..

Just trying to lighten the mood. :P

what does this prove? only that an experienced player on an alt account can take advantage of new/inexperienced players, and nothing more. although i do have a question about something i saw between 4:55-4:59 – how does helseth 1)phantasmal warlock, 2)cry of frustration, 3)phase retreat and end up with 3 clones (indicator says he has 3)? otherwise, all i see is an experienced player on an alt account trolling inexperienced players, which proves that people who know how to play can take advantage of people who don’t at lower levels. imho, nothing of value to see here.

Emdrix.6124:

ELO hell is a myth.

Holy kitten someone said it

Soothsayer.9206:

what does this prove? only that an experienced player on an alt account can take advantage of new/inexperienced players, and nothing more. although i do have a question about something i saw between 4:55-4:59 – how does helseth 1)phantasmal warlock, 2)cry of frustration, 3)phase retreat and end up with 3 clones (indicator says he has 3)? otherwise, all i see is an experienced player on an alt account trolling inexperienced players, which proves that people who know how to play can take advantage of people who don’t at lower levels. imho, nothing of value to see here.

People were saying that Players could not carry matches even if you are supposed to be in Higher divisions, Helseth apparently is proving that otherwise, now those same players are arguing that he is an ESL player so this doesn’t count against their main argument.

Also to answer your question The Chronomancer Traits Chronophantasma and Illusionary Reversion could be the answer if he started with two illusions, I can’t pull up the video right now so I can’t view the specific segment you are referring to.