Guild Wars 2

Embrace me as your savior.

Condition engineer is the key, this is all the information you need.

Edit: oh wait, only a handful of people play engineer(properly). good luck anyway!

yep, try that with eles+guardian ;/

Two words: Empathic bond

Flamethrower + elixir gun build eats ele alive. I can confirm for hiba

Im an ele and i can confirm flamethrower kitten eles xD

Mssg.7804:

yep, try that with eles+guardian ;/

i love this!!!Like he is gonna play alone (or only with other engies) against the eles+guardian :P
(no profession defence here ..i just found your reply funny)
But gj at still trying stuff and finding counters op in this mess.. i hope engie gets buffed/reckognized cause we should at least have the fun/complicated classes represented more to raise the overal level of the game..

I don’t need a buff. I have no problems with rangers empathetic bond, even if it is broken. Yes I play that against eles and guardians and what not.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2sPVv0f6cQFx0;9;49T-J94;0475;116-5;0KZ;4dZm9fRk07Fw

This build I run eats eles. But I haven’t had 3 engis run it all at once so who knows.

(Made a mistake in it, use healing turret instead of medkit)

You don’t need 3 of them but that would probably work really well. Overkill if you ask me though, I have honor.

lets try triple ele

NaturalPortman.9562:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2sPVv0f6cQFx0;9;49T-J94;0475;116-5;0KZ;4dZm9fRk07Fw

This build I run eats eles. But I haven’t had 3 engis run it all at once so who knows.

(Made a mistake in it, use healing turret instead of medkit)

Not to be a downer, or a huge critic – but I can assure you that there are many ways for you to get more out of this build.

Kit refinement over speedy kits – with EG, you’re getting a condi removal and heal every 20s on swap, and a condi removal when you swap to FT as well, aoe burn, too.

To get the constant speed from losing speedy kits, you can sacrifice a small 30% to bleed and get 6/6 centaur, for perma swiftness by using medkit. Or use infused precision in firearms.

Also, traiting a 12s reduction for Elixir S alone, when you could get protection injection, perma vigor, or Elixir S @ 25%? Dat kitten crazy.

Chaith.8256:

NaturalPortman.9562:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2sPVv0f6cQFx0;9;49T-J94;0475;116-5;0KZ;4dZm9fRk07Fw

This build I run eats eles. But I haven’t had 3 engis run it all at once so who knows.

(Made a mistake in it, use healing turret instead of medkit)

Not to be a downer, or a huge critic – but I can assure you that there are many ways for you to get more out of this build.

Kit refinement over speedy kits – with EG, you’re getting a condi removal and heal every 20s on swap, and a condi removal when you swap to FT as well, aoe burn, too.

To get the constant speed from losing speedy kits, you can sacrifice a small 30% to bleed and get 6/6 centaur, for perma swiftness by using medkit. Or use infused precision in firearms.

Also, traiting a 12s reduction for Elixir S alone, when you could get protection injection, perma vigor, or Elixir S @ 25%? Dat kitten crazy.

I DIDNT ASK YOU FIVE GAUGE I LIKE MY BUILD HOW IT IS.

But seriously, i prefer healing turret in this build because I find medkit has too much of a “stop time” when you try to heal with it. You get the most damage out of the build when you are constantly using your channeling skills (FT 1 + elixir gun 3 hits like a truck)

But yes I see your point, I’ll give it a try and see how it is, I just feel that bleed is kittening pain in the anus to apply with engi without condi duration (with the exception of grenade kit)

Man’s got a point. Ele’s aren’t terrible for me if I’m running a condi spec.
Remember children! An engineer a day keeps the OP ele’s away.

well eles can be vunerable to confusion stacking, and eles/mesmers do that well.

The problem is not 1v1ing eles. Most condi builds will DESTROY eles 1v1. The problem is in teamfights where AoE condi cleanses are insane in this meta. Also 1v1 vs trap rangers. Empathic bond is the dumbest thing ever.

I do play condis and I switch between power and condi depending on the enemy comp. But 75% of the time you’ll see me as power cuz it’s just not worth it to try condis against 2 eles and a guard and a trap ranger.

Ostricheggs.3742:

The problem is not 1v1ing eles. Most condi builds will DESTROY eles 1v1. The problem is in teamfights where AoE condi cleanses are insane in this meta. Also 1v1 vs trap rangers. Empathic bond is the dumbest thing ever.

I do play condis and I switch between power and condi depending on the enemy comp. But 75% of the time you’ll see me as power cuz it’s just not worth it to try condis against 2 eles and a guard and a trap ranger.

Then you have teammates too.

Learn how to call focus fire.

eles have mist form and ride the lightning and many many many heals as well as a variety of stunbreaks. Eles are low on the list of good targets.

Ostricheggs.3742:

eles have mist form and ride the lightning and many many many heals as well as a variety of stunbreaks. Eles are low on the list of good targets.

They’re also on the low list of “good damage”.

Take out the supporters first, then drop immobilize, kd, or stun on the ele until it runs out of cantrips and burst it down.

mobility skills don’t break any of these.

Put any decent bunker ele and a shout cond removal guardian on the same spot (Let’s say mid..but it can be far side also for more trolling) and that point is yours…no matter if they’re two or five….it’s just a waste of time. Once you got it and they give up leave the guardian there and the ele can go backcap a side of his choice. Now all you have to do is backupping (You want 3 dps/2 dps 1 cond necro or ranger) when needed and looking at your points growing up while waiting for win…if you want overkill send a mesmer with time warp with your 2 dps.

Done. Works like 9/10 in paids…and if it doesn’t work it’s because you did something wrong.

At ease.

1. Pressure eles.

2. Pressure some more.

3. Coordinate CC & damage on rangers.

4. Cleave corpse.

5. Profit.

If you don’t pressure eles, they can freely use their mist form for other purposes than escaping from death like turning around the fight with a mist stomp/rez. You want to put enough pressure on them so they pop their mist & heals so that they won’t be able to use those to support. You also want to keep track of their cooldowns such as mist form as much as possible.

After pressuring the eles you can fairly easily push on their backline and bring down the rangers with good CC & damage coordination.

Remember to pay extreme attention to your positioning at all times against such aoe heavy team compositions. Keep it clean keep it lean.

tl;dr: don’t suck.

If people are still crying about eles & rangers being OP after reading this then maybe I’ll care to give you more tips and information. Maybe.

Burst is important on eles. in particular stick with them if they dont ride the lighting away after you make em burn mistform.

Also try to notice when they use it, they arent a bad target if mistform is down.

Guys no. Please stop sharing whatever crazy engie things you’re doing to mess me up. Lately I’ve been running into engineers that are just destroying me in a 1v1 situation and I want it to stop :’(

Those that think the typical condition removal stops an offensive condi Engineer’s damage hasn’t really seen it in action. Empathetic Bond (however buggy in favor of the Ranger it is) can be worked around with smart cooldown usage. The only condi removal that really works are full wipes, which are amusingly rather rare in the current meta.

Empathic bond is a full condition wipe. Rangers have too many dodges in conjunction with empathic bond and their pet/shortbow CC to make it work.

The problem is not with small scale scenarios with only one ele or so. The problem is 4v4s/5v5s where aoe condition removal is prevalent in absurd amounts. I still remember playing with PZ one game against QT running full condis. Two necros, and a ranger, all condi damage. I had 25 kills by the end of it, all we did was repeatedly wipe them at henge.

I really don’t think you guys play the same game…

Good 1v2 ostrich.

I can confirm that condi engies, along with trap rangers, are devastating to d/d eles. People act like because we have tons of condition removal, that we are immune to conditions, simply not true. I have ALWAYS had an easier time fighting against power/crit builds than I have condi builds.

I havent experienced any 4v4 fights where every person is spamming aoe condi removal, but with 4 enemies spamming conditions, wouldn’t the condition application/condition removal rate ratio be the same as 1v1?

Empathic Bond can be worked around because they can’t control the condi removal. In this case we’d simply time Blowtorch to land after it’s wiped. I’m not exactly in the same boat as Hiba though with it though, I still have great trouble against a select few Rangers that carry it. The advantage is in their favor, but not all hope is lost. Once the bug is fixed so that it’s an actual transfer though, the fight I imagine would be far in our favor since the pet’s would have to managed very carefully to even stay alive.

AoE condi removal isn’t that big of a deal in my experience. It mitigates the damage but again most AoE condi removal only removes one or two condis. Engineer’s lay a pretty thick layer of them and can reapply multiple types very quickly. This form of condi removal is a big problem when playing as a build that primarily focuses on bleeds though.

Rhoto.8791:

I can confirm that condi engies, along with trap rangers, are devastating to d/d eles. People act like because we have tons of condition removal, that we are immune to conditions, simply not true. I have ALWAYS had an easier time fighting against power/crit builds than I have condi builds.

I havent experienced any 4v4 fights where every person is spamming aoe condi removal, but with 4 enemies spamming conditions, wouldn’t the condition application/condition removal rate ratio be the same as 1v1?

You have a harder time fighting against condi builds as an ele, of course. I’m not disputing that. What I am disputing is the efficacy of a condi build in the current meta with multiple eles and rangers. Two eles = 4 cleanses every 10 seconds in an AoE. Two eles + a guard/ranger with healing spring = lol

And 4 people aren’t spamming condis. At most there are two players in a condi build in the very large majority of comps for good reason. AoE condi removal from multiple sources can have a massive effect on a condi build. I’ve seen it first hand and it’s the reason why I don’t run a condi build 24/7.

And engis do have the largest selection of condis in the game and are the best at condi application by a long shot. But even with the rapid application, a simple empathic bond tick or absolute res guardian will buttkitten our large cooldown skills immensely (freeze nade, blowtorch, glue shot, static shot and even shrapnel grenade all have sizable cooldowns)

All I’m saying is is that hiba is being misleading. Condis have their place, you just have to pick and choose based on the comp/specs the other team is running as well as your own. Power can be far more effective.

I’ve always considered Engineer to be my “main”, even though lately I’ve switched to Guardian because people keep asking me “don’t you have another class to bring?” when I join paids, and well… I don’t get it.

Even though I’ve played engi in every shape and form, I don’t see how a condition heavy build is going to destroy an Elementalist. I mean, what can an engi do that a Necromancer can’t in terms of conditions? The build above isn’t even using ‘nades, which I’ve found to be the most effective way to stack conditions quickly on a target.

Maybe the mix of burning + confusion? But what good does it do when an Ele can cleanse conditions that fast?

Please enlighten me.

kagemitsu.3657:

I’ve always considered Engineer to be my “main”, even though lately I’ve switched to Guardian because people keep asking me “don’t you have another class to bring?” when I join paids, and well… I don’t get it.

Even though I’ve played engi in every shape and form, I don’t see how a condition heavy build is going to destroy an Elementalist. I mean, what can an engi do that a Necromancer can’t in terms of conditions? The build above isn’t even using ‘nades, which I’ve found to be the most effective way to stack conditions quickly on a target.

Maybe the mix of burning + confusion? But what good does it do when an Ele can cleanse conditions that fast?

Please enlighten me.

Nercos dun have Confusion.. do they? o.o

leashmaygoss.2140:

At ease.

1. Pressure eles.

2. Pressure some more.

3. Coordinate CC & damage on rangers.

4. Cleave corpse.

5. Profit.

If you don’t pressure eles, they can freely use their mist form for other purposes than escaping from death like turning around the fight with a mist stomp/rez. You want to put enough pressure on them so they pop their mist & heals so that they won’t be able to use those to support. You also want to keep track of their cooldowns such as mist form as much as possible.

After pressuring the eles you can fairly easily push on their backline and bring down the rangers with good CC & damage coordination.

Remember to pay extreme attention to your positioning at all times against such aoe heavy team compositions. Keep it clean keep it lean.

tl;dr: don’t suck.

If people are still crying about eles & rangers being OP after reading this then maybe I’ll care to give you more tips and information. Maybe.

This is a great post, and I think more people need to think like this.

Nope, and they don’t have burning either, but they got so many ways to put conditions on people and to remove boons that I would expect necros to be the natural counter of anything that falls into the “bunker” category.

Engis are far stronger than necros in terms of condi application just for the wide variety and quick application. That, and worst of all, necros seriously lack burning which is just like 6 (7?) stacks of bleed. When an engi throws a nade he’s applying vuln and possibly burns/bleeds as well as whatever else the grenade itself does. Glue shot really helps as well for anti-condi removal. Oh, and our elite got a massive buff last patch, so flame turret and net turret actually scale off condi damage now.

For people wondering what kind of build he’s talking about: http://www.intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2Z;0h0m5cQFx0;9;4T9-T-49A5;319A;1E-1;3hoHAhoHA7Zb

Teldo.1473:

For people wondering what kind of build he’s talking about: http://www.intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2Z;0h0m5cQFx0;9;4T9-T-49A5;319A;1E-1;3hoHAhoHA7Zb

I’m not a fan of might stacking or grenade kit, but to each his own.

Me neither, but it’s effective and I’m pretty certain that he’s talking about a build similiar to this.

I’m not doubting the effectiveness of the build, but I have some questions:

—What does it mean to “counter multi-ele”? Bring them down in a teamfight? 1v1 them on a point?
—Why does taking multiple engineers help? One engi reapplies burn constantly already, so the second engi would add maybe six stacks of bleeding and two stacks of confusion?
—Condi engies have no cc or chase ability. In a 1v1, can a condi engi really do more than take an ele down to 1/3 health and watch them RTL away? Or is this build more for laying on conditions while your teammates try to lock the ele down?
—I know that elixir gun is very effective vs. eles—I imagine we are talking about grenades as the second kit, and a stunbreak? Why are people mentioning flamethrower?
—The concerns Ostricheggs raises seem very important. For every situation that a condi engi would do well, it seems there are two they would do poorly. Are there any ways to “hybrid” this, or is it basically just a counter-pick to the current cheese comp/strategy?

Gameplay questions, not build questions. I understand how a condi engi works, I’m just wondering what specifically countering eles means.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I’m not doubting the effectiveness of the build, but I have some questions:

—What does it mean to “counter multi-ele”? Bring them down in a teamfight? 1v1 them on a point?
—Why does taking multiple engineers help? One engi reapplies burn constantly already, so the second engi would add maybe six stacks of bleeding and two stacks of confusion?
—Condi engies have no cc or chase ability. In a 1v1, can a condi engi really do more than take an ele down to 1/3 health and watch them RTL away? Or is this build more for laying on conditions while your teammates try to lock the ele down?
—I know that elixir gun is very effective vs. eles—I imagine we are talking about grenades as the second kit, and a stunbreak? Why are people mentioning flamethrower?
—The concerns Ostricheggs raises seem very important. For every situation that a condi engi would do well, it seems there are two they would do poorly. Are there any ways to “hybrid” this, or is it basically just a counter-pick to the current cheese comp/strategy?

Gameplay questions, not build questions. I understand how a condi engi works, I’m just wondering what specifically countering eles means.

When hiba says countering it really means a way to “deal” with them. There isn’t really a straight up rock paper scissor like counter in this game for anything.

NaturalPortman.9562:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I’m not doubting the effectiveness of the build, but I have some questions:

—What does it mean to “counter multi-ele”? Bring them down in a teamfight? 1v1 them on a point?
—Why does taking multiple engineers help? One engi reapplies burn constantly already, so the second engi would add maybe six stacks of bleeding and two stacks of confusion?
—Condi engies have no cc or chase ability. In a 1v1, can a condi engi really do more than take an ele down to 1/3 health and watch them RTL away? Or is this build more for laying on conditions while your teammates try to lock the ele down?
—I know that elixir gun is very effective vs. eles—I imagine we are talking about grenades as the second kit, and a stunbreak? Why are people mentioning flamethrower?
—The concerns Ostricheggs raises seem very important. For every situation that a condi engi would do well, it seems there are two they would do poorly. Are there any ways to “hybrid” this, or is it basically just a counter-pick to the current cheese comp/strategy?

Gameplay questions, not build questions. I understand how a condi engi works, I’m just wondering what specifically countering eles means.

When hiba says countering it really means a way to “deal” with them. There isn’t really a straight up rock paper scissor like counter in this game for anything.

Oh definitely—that’s why eles are good, there’s nothing that makes them scared like rock scares scissors. I’m just trying to get a feel for the gameplay. It sounds to me most like a teamfight build designed to apply pressure to a downed-state-heroes comp. If that’s all it’s really meant to do, the concerns aren’t too meaningful—it’s a counter-pick, after all. Just let it do its one job and be satisfied.

I think counter-picks can really only be used effectively by really great teams. For example, when I do paids with whoever’s on, I want to be effective 1v1. I also need some defense because I can’t depend on people peeling for me. If I were playing with PZ, I would just want my build to do exactly what they want me to do, and I know they’ll always be in the right place to make up for its weaknesses. (I’ve never actually played with PZ…just a hypothetical)

Ostricheggs.3742:

You have a harder time fighting against condi builds as an ele, of course. I’m not disputing that. What I am disputing is the efficacy of a condi build in the current meta with multiple eles and rangers. Two eles = 4 cleanses every 10 seconds in an AoE. Two eles + a guard/ranger with healing spring = lol

And 4 people aren’t spamming condis. At most there are two players in a condi build in the very large majority of comps for good reason. AoE condi removal from multiple sources can have a massive effect on a condi build. I’ve seen it first hand and it’s the reason why I don’t run a condi build 24/7.

And engis do have the largest selection of condis in the game and are the best at condi application by a long shot. But even with the rapid application, a simple empathic bond tick or absolute res guardian will buttkitten our large cooldown skills immensely (freeze nade, blowtorch, glue shot, static shot and even shrapnel grenade all have sizable cooldowns)

All I’m saying is is that hiba is being misleading. Condis have their place, you just have to pick and choose based on the comp/specs the other team is running as well as your own. Power can be far more effective.

good joke