Guild Wars 2

Warrior in it’s infancy had no condi removal besides soldier runes and shouts. Damage was pretty insane though. Not as high as thief at the time. Pre Ferocity nerf this attributed to a lot of warriors insane damage as it scaled good with them.

Warriors just wanted to be competitive, so Devs finally game them healing sig, CI. Etc But with every sustain buff they received they were given damage nerfs. After the damage nerfs anet saw it fit to nerf sustain as well, shouts, healing sig etc because people cryed mostly because they were bad.

Those same bad players then received tremendous buffs patch after patch and power creeped them so hard Ranger is a good example of this. A class that was never really terrible in PVP back in the day. Petting Zoo anyone?

Anyways that was besides the point. ANET has treated warriors where they say can have CC but no Damage, can Have Damage but no sustain, Can have sustain but no damage. Except they fail to be great when they specialize in anyone category any other class can do it better.

Now comes along Rev ANET treats this profession totally different. They can have literally everything at once. Never has warrior had everything. People have tried to compare them to shoutbow meta. OK warrior shoutbow was strong, But it was never as strong as any of the META specs right now ever.

Yet the same bad players who plays those specs continue to complain and ask for more buffs so they can be carried more, and of course anet listens and where are warriors now? Dead. This company all along has had this one set of rules they use for warriors and another set of rules for everyone else.

Looks at adrin decay for example no other professions was penalized the same way as warriors are or have to adhere to the same standards.

I hear you, I know what you’re saying, but at the point where you talk about rule sets.. can confirm Mesmer had/has its own unique set of Anet rules too :p

Oh and btw, I loved the opening meta when nobody ran condi cleanse. Confusion bombs were fantastic back then :D (ala Mesmer)

If you read through patch note history you’ll find the buff/nerf ratio for warrior is 2.13:1

So essentially for every one buff they have received, they have also been dealth 2.31 nerfs. This pretty much on paper means they are weaker now than before they ever received their very first buff.

Amen bro
/15 char

Agree. Lots of people gave feedback during the bwe, so did I during/after bwe3, and I’m yet to see any results. Berserker got a damage buff that should have been there from the start, having the other elite specs in mind, and nothing done to core warrior specs and traits despite all the feedback. So basically nothing, absolutely nothing changed. From all the patch notes after HoT warrior was in one or two, not more.

You make it sound like Anet has something against warriors. While I agree that most elite specs but warrior’s were overtuned, let’s not forget that warrior was the overlord of the meta several times in the history of the game.

You claim shoutbow was not as strong as the new meta builds. But you’re only strong relatively. And a shoutbow warrior (sometimes two) was absolutely needed on every team back then.

There was a time where it was common to see two hambow warriors on a team.

Let’s not even talk about the goold old Frenzy-HB days.

Sure, warriors are in a terrible place, but try to consider the meta as a whole and not from your mono-profession biased point of view.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

If you read through patch note history you’ll find the buff/nerf ratio for warrior is 2.13:1

So essentially for every one buff they have received, they have also been dealth 2.31 nerfs. This pretty much on paper means they are weaker now than before they ever received their very first buff.

A buff is a qualitative variable. Your claim is risible.

Oh nooo, Anet doesn’t like -insert class-. Its obvious that they hate me and all the people like me. Are you serious, lmao? I’m not arguing that warrior ISNT weak, but to claim that they’re out to get you? You will literally find a thread like this in every subforum of every class. If Anet is out to get everyone it ceases to be a manhunt and more like a rampant homicidal streak.

I suppose its been confirmed, then. Anet truly is a group of sociopathic cyber murderers out to butcher everyones favourite class.

Warrior was a popular class pre-HoT in both pve and pvp.

Arenanet thought it would still be in a good spot post-HoT, and the fact that the Warrior playerbase was very healthy meant they could focus more on other professions that needed some attention. As a result Berserker got less development time (which is honestly blindingly obvious) and fell very much behind when so much was added to other classes via specializations. I’m sure Thief got a similar treatment because of how meta the class was pre-HoT.

That’s most probably it. There’s no big conspiracy. They got less attention because they were already popular, and suffered because of it. Hopefully things will change, come the next balance patches…eventually.

The issue with warrior has less to do about the warrior and more about the other classes.

Scrappers, Revenants, Dragonhunters and Reapers in particular are able to sustain themselves while dishing out lots of damage, something the warrior (and thief) is unable to do.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

If you read through patch note history you’ll find the buff/nerf ratio for warrior is 2.13:1

So essentially for every one buff they have received, they have also been dealth 2.31 nerfs. This pretty much on paper means they are weaker now than before they ever received their very first buff.

Wait a minute, if a single one of their buffs was of power level 9000 or above, and all of the nerfs were only of power level 2, then they’d actually be stronger.

Even if you’re right that they are weaker than upon release, you’ve mistaking quality for quantity. You sound like a thief XD

/\ I’m a Thief and I’m offended.

I remember the days before the healing nerf, I could shatter repeatedly on a warrior and they’d stand there and laugh at me. Then they’d one – shot me with cc+100 blades.

Warrior has never been my class, I consider it hard to play and weird… but until quite recently Warrior was generally close to the top of the heap.

At the moment in pvp, they seem a bit lost. Though Ross has claimed that the rifle is now quite fun to play.

BullRushFrenzy100B dreams are dead

Jackums.3496:

There are always 2-3 classes that aren’t “meta” each time around. Right now those classes are Thief and Warrior (Guard to a lesser extent). It’s how the whole concept of a PvP meta works. You’ll rarely, if ever, have a time when every class is equally viable. Equal balance is what’s aimed for but not realistically anticipated.

What about when the meta is three professions and two of the worst professions aren’t just not meta, but actively weaken their team with their presence?

You’re basically implying that it’s perfectly fine that warriors and thieves are so weak that they literally hurt their team by being there because they were strong in the past.

Awesome.

Sigh. Jackums, I 100% sympathise with your point about Mesmers, Rangers and Necros being weak for a long time in PvP. SO many people have made the exact same point already, and it’s true, it sucks and I understand that frustration. But just because every meta some classes aren’t really represented (like Thieves and Wars aren’t right now) doesn’t mean it’s therefore ok that those classes continue to be grossly underpowered for the duration of that meta.
“Oh yeah, they’ve been meta for a long time before so it’s ok we can ignore them for a while”
That seems to be the mindset people have. And I hate it.
I think you forget that, metas aside, when classes are so weak that they actually hinder a team more so than help them and aren’t at all viable in sPvP, people are being forced away from the classes they enjoy playing. I don’t personally care if my main, Thief, is “meta” or not, nor do I care if Mesmer or Rev are meta. What I do care about is that I’ve sorta been forced to shelve both my Thief AND my War in favour of playing Rev or Reaper in PvP, because it’s THAT hard to play the former right now (particularly Warrior).
That’s not okay.

Jackums.3496:

Basically #firstworldproblems compared to the meta history of Mesmer, Ranger and Necro.

Not even close. The game has a supported esport scene with a proleague now, and it simply cannot afford a balance where two entire professions are literally useless.

Only because Rangers and Necros had problems in the past, it doesn’t mean other classes should do as well – the game does NOT need a constant circle of imbalance, and I’m pretty sure no player outside of some salty Ranger/Necro/Mesmer players wishes that.
Not to mention that the current state of Warrior/Thief is arguably even worse than what Ranger and Necro have been through – and this comes from someone that also played Necro since launch.

any news from devs about fixing warrior? do they plan to do something about this?

My main is a warrior but I stopped playing it in PvP 2 weeks after HoT launched because they aren’t viable against above average players. Gunflame build doesnt do kittens against anyone who knows his/her class. Sure, I can +1 but any class can do that…heck the ranger’s pet is even better in that regard since it can’t act as a rallybot lol.

Everytime I see a warrior or a thief in my team as a soloQ’er, I roll my eyes, basically treat the match as 4v5. That’s how bad these 2 classes are atm compared to other elite specs.

Warlord.9074:

Yet the same bad players who plays those specs continue to complain and ask for more buffs.

I noticed a post of the Rev forums asking why they have no reflect, even on their staff weapon :-/

I would love to see the stats for class breakdown in all 3 game modes (PVE/WVW/PVP)

what percentage of players play warrior in these game modes vs pre HoT.

Spartacus.3192:

I would love to see the stats for class breakdown in all 3 game modes (PVE/WVW/PVP)

what percentage of players play warrior in these game modes vs pre HoT.

Warriors were nerfed on 23rd June, but with the availability of better spec with HoT, it just put the final nail in the coffin. I know many that that quit playing warriors back in June.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

Spartacus.3192:

I would love to see the stats for class breakdown in all 3 game modes (PVE/WVW/PVP)

what percentage of players play warrior in these game modes vs pre HoT.

Warriors were nerfed on 23rd June, but with the availability of better spec with HoT, it just put the final nail in the coffin. I know many that that quit playing warriors back in June.

I mained warrior for all of 2015 even after 23rd June, right up till HoT. Now im back to my Guard(DH) (my first toon) and also rolled a Rev. It saddens me that the elite spec is so weak comparatively. Well the entire core needs changing to tie in better with the elite. Or completely change the elite.

warrior was never good pvp mechanically compare to the rest of the classes
it has always relied on cheese build to stay in the meta

warrior was always on top of most game modes for a long time, I always thought it made sense as the dps focused class. my confusion build Mesmer always had good pvp battles with them even the annoying ham/bow ones I still think they one of the few well balanced classes, but at the moment they overshadowed buy a lot of over tuned elite specs that needed to sell expansion packs. wait till all the balancing done and the old and new stuff get inline with each other and hopefully we be back to normal.

maybe all them people who traded their warriors for revs might even come back

I’m going to give the ACTUAL history of the warrior meta:
At the VERY START warriors did incredibly high burst damage with hundred blades + quickness, at this time, quickness meant 100% faster ability use.
Then quickness was nerfed, and so was war.
During this time, warrior was just as bad as it is now in terms of meta.
Heal sig was added and warriors picked up hammer and bow and might stacked with soldier and the hambow meta was born.
Then cele ele outshined hambow and it fell by the wayside
then cele shout warrior became a thing, then it got nerfed into oblivion
then beserker/maurder rampage warrior became meta, then beserker didn’t live up to the other OP(/cough “elite”) specs and it’s terrible.

lighter.2708:

warrior was never good pvp mechanically compare to the rest of the classes
it has always relied on cheese build to stay in the meta

Ha! Cheesy builds. Wtf are all of there’s bunkers then?

Sorel.4870:

You make it sound like Anet has something against warriors. While I agree that most elite specs but warrior’s were overtuned, let’s not forget that warrior was the overlord of the meta several times in the history of the game.

Ah, so you contend that Warriors were OP all along and perhaps just often played by mediocre players . Now that they are on even ground they can’t hold their own? Interesting theory. IMO they were OP pre-HoT. I’ve advised every Warrior to transition to Revenant.

What Anet doesn’t understand is that warrior’s problem isn’t damage, its the sustain. Heavy classes like guardians, revenant has strong and multiple sources of blocking and healing and access to protection and warriors have no access to protection and comparatively weak healing skills (HS is a joke in the current meta where you can be downed in 5 sec)

Firebird.8324:

I’m going to give the ACTUAL history of the warrior meta:
At the VERY START warriors did incredibly high burst damage with hundred blades + quickness, at this time, quickness meant 100% faster ability use.
Then quickness was nerfed, and so was war.
During this time, warrior was just as bad as it is now in terms of meta.

HB warriors were never viable at all. It was a very easy to counter one trick pony.

runeblade.7514:

Firebird.8324:

I’m going to give the ACTUAL history of the warrior meta:
At the VERY START warriors did incredibly high burst damage with hundred blades + quickness, at this time, quickness meant 100% faster ability use.
Then quickness was nerfed, and so was war.
During this time, warrior was just as bad as it is now in terms of meta.

HB warriors were never viable at all. It was a very easy to counter one trick pony.

I guess your opponents never counted dodges.

Kaliny.8265:

/\ I’m a Thief and I’m offended.

At least warriors were actually in the meta to do something that wasn’t decapping.

That said, bunker meta is trash. You can’t move from low TTK to stpudly high TTK overnight unless you do it for every class.

The situation we have now is that certain classes are twice or three times as difficult to kill, but are made so by giving them massive amounts of passive sustain, while other classes are expected to leverage active tools to reach a comparable level of sustain, and even then, the “active sustain” from classes like warrior and thief is sorely lacking, and the tools they were originally given to counter passive sustain (boon hate and boon theft) aren’t useful because all of these newfangled sustain mechanisms are non-boon buffs.

I used to play thief exclusively in PvP. it wasn’t the most powerful thing, and I could have picked a different meta build and done better, but I had fun on thief and contributed.

It took about a week after the release of HoT for the new meta to emerge, and it was a meta in which certain classes weren’t just underpowered, but in which they were literally unable to accomplish anything. My thief is sitting on a shelf right now while I play condi rev because it finally reached the point that I was literally unable to take points or win matches when I qued with thief. Warriors are in a very similar position. It’s not just poor balance. It’s laughably poor balance that actually excludes whole classes from PvP.

Normally I’d laugh at people saying ‘go reroll theif’ and do something useful anyway. At this point, as much as it pains me to say it, they’re right, and I did. It’s not just that there are apex predators any more. There are literally classes in the game that are just prey now.

If Arenanet is going to do balance freezes between seasons, they need to get a whole lot better at testing things and general balancing.

TheDarkSoul.1938:

Sigh. Jackums, I 100% sympathise with your point about Mesmers, Rangers and Necros being weak for a long time in PvP. SO many people have made the exact same point already, and it’s true, it sucks and I understand that frustration. But just because every meta some classes aren’t really represented (like Thieves and Wars aren’t right now) doesn’t mean it’s therefore ok that those classes continue to be grossly underpowered for the duration of that meta.
“Oh yeah, they’ve been meta for a long time before so it’s ok we can ignore them for a while”
That seems to be the mindset people have. And I hate it.
I think you forget that, metas aside, when classes are so weak that they actually hinder a team more so than help them and aren’t at all viable in sPvP, people are being forced away from the classes they enjoy playing. I don’t personally care if my main, Thief, is “meta” or not, nor do I care if Mesmer or Rev are meta. What I do care about is that I’ve sorta been forced to shelve both my Thief AND my War in favour of playing Rev or Reaper in PvP, because it’s THAT hard to play the former right now (particularly Warrior).
That’s not okay.

I agree with this, I do support making warriors and thieves better able to handle this meta…but I must say that the bolded pretty well describes the state that rangers were in (with perhaps a month exception) from the launch of the game until Heart of Thorns.

I’ve said this many times, A-Net policy for warrior is that no other class must suck as bad this. That is the line they put and everytime new players who don’t bother to dodge any of the warrior insanely big tells and cry OP, A-Net is quick to nerf warrior back down to the bottom of the barrel.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

runeblade.7514:

Firebird.8324:

I’m going to give the ACTUAL history of the warrior meta:
At the VERY START warriors did incredibly high burst damage with hundred blades + quickness, at this time, quickness meant 100% faster ability use.
Then quickness was nerfed, and so was war.
During this time, warrior was just as bad as it is now in terms of meta.

HB warriors were never viable at all. It was a very easy to counter one trick pony.

I guess your opponents never counted dodges.

No need to even dodge. A simple stunbreak and standing back a few steps is enough to shut down the build.

A average player with any build today can easily counter any HB warrior with 100% quickness.

Ah, I remember those days, everyone complaining about 100b warriors, because no one wanted to slot stability.

Fun times

Sorel.4870:

You make it sound like Anet has something against warriors. While I agree that most elite specs but warrior’s were overtuned, let’s not forget that warrior was the overlord of the meta several times in the history of the game.

You claim shoutbow was not as strong as the new meta builds. But you’re only strong relatively. And a shoutbow warrior (sometimes two) was absolutely needed on every team back then.

There was a time where it was common to see two hambow warriors on a team.

Let’s not even talk about the goold old Frenzy-HB days.

Sure, warriors are in a terrible place, but try to consider the meta as a whole and not from your mono-profession biased point of view.

One of the developers said that Warriors are easy to play and thus should never be viable.