Holo knows that it doesn’t have stab and cleanse. It will go for insta kill when you are busy. Only a stupid one will go 1v1 against a condi or into some CC spam.
Also bear in my mind a lot of people are just going full damage builds so of course they’re gonna get melted. Support Tempest for example can handle a Holosmith assault pretty easily.
Holo dont have stability if he is not in heat mode. Lack of cobdi clean… If he attack in heat mode just kite him. Then you can kill him.
Scourge…. Eh … Broken?
Hello? You know you can play with team mates that can cover up your weaknesses? They might not be that good because once they enter Photon Forge they are locked in it a few seconds without stability and other defensive stuff, but hey, I’m talking about the damage here. It’s ridiculous, and we all agree with that.
Scourge is even more broken though.
Firebrands can ‘burn hard’ but are sitting ducks. Deadeyes need a lot of time to actually hit hard (but they might hit a little too hard when that happens).
I mostly tried scourge and soulbeast and imho either scourge is ridiculously overpowered or soulbeast is complete garbage. Or both.
Spellbreaker and holosmith also seem to be overtuned and on a similar level as scourge.
I mostly tried scourge and soulbeast and imho either scourge is ridiculously overpowered or soulbeast is complete garbage. Or both.
Spellbreaker and holosmith also seem to be overtuned and on a similar level as scourge.
I played both soulbeast and scourge. I think Scourge is better strictly because of damage being their “defense” now.
Their is a learning curve to these specs. Nobody was afraid to engage Necros before 1v1, but now you get penalized bad for fighting on their terms. You have more to worry about than just RS3 in small range.
As a ranger, I took them down fairly well by staying far out of range and letting the new pets do most of the work from range too. The pets that immobilize and stun/knockback wreak havoc on necros as well. You just have to stay far out of range/kite then cc when in range.
One thing I liked about Ranger was the new pet abilities – especially ones that clear condi and make attacks unblockable. This was something you never could get reliably from pets on a ranger before and allows me to customize the pet selection pre-match with more strategy. It did feel a little clunky, but something that may work with more practice.
I mostly tried scourge and soulbeast and imho either scourge is ridiculously overpowered or soulbeast is complete garbage. Or both.
Spellbreaker and holosmith also seem to be overtuned and on a similar level as scourge.
I played both soulbeast and scourge. I think Scourge is better right now because of damage being their quasi “defense”.
Their is a learning curve to these specs. Nobody was afraid to engage Necros before 1v1, but now you get penalized bad for fighting on their terms. You have more to worry about than just RS3 in small range.
As a ranger, I took them down fairly well by staying far out of range and letting the new pets do most of the work from range too. The pets that immobilize and stun/knockback wreak havoc on necros as well. You just have to stay far out of range/kite then cc when in range.
One thing I liked about Ranger was the new pet abilities – especially ones that clear condi and make attacks unblockable. This was something you never could get reliably from pets on a ranger before and allows me to customize the pet selection pre-match with more strategy. It did feel a little clunky, but something that may work with more practice.
Soulbeast was completely underwhelming, the new weapon is terrible and the functionality very clunky in general. Worldly Impact is decent, cancelling is nice and easy as well to bait defensives. Outside of that, not being able to swap pet in beast mode is a massive let down … Half of the stances don’t work… The heal , 2 condi removal and a 4k base heal? Really? WHO would take that over troll since you would need to run WS anyway for the immense amount of condi builds popping up. At this moment in time core is way better as well as druid. Massive let down overall.
Scourge is easily better in design and functionality, but I would say it isn’t like you can just pick up the class and be insanely godlike with it , it has some weakness against range but as a melee class without resistance you’re going to get your ass handed to you – the only way to win against that is to bait and cc and pop resistance at the right times to setup burst following CC.
Soulbeast was completely underwhelming, the new weapon is terrible and the functionality very clunky in general. Worldly Impact is decent, cancelling is nice and easy as well to bait defensives. Outside of that, not being able to swap pet in beast mode is a massive let down … Half of the stances don’t work… The heal , 2 condi removal and a 4k base heal? Really? WHO would take that over troll since you would need to run WS anyway for the immense amount of condi builds popping up. At this moment in time core is way better as well as druid. Massive let down overall.
Scourge is easily better in design and functionality, but I would say it isn’t like you can just pick up the class and be insanely godlike with it , it has some weakness against range but as a melee class without resistance you’re going to get your ass handed to you – the only way to win against that is to bait and cc and pop resistance at the right times to setup burst following CC.
Bear Stance has a 5k base heal and removes up to 8 conditions over 4 seconds for a maximum base heal of ~9k. It’s a good heal.
Holo dont have stability if he is not in heat mode. Lack of cobdi clean… If he attack in heat mode just kite him. Then you can kill him.
Scourge…. Eh … Broken?
Hello? You know you can play with team mates that can cover up your weaknesses? They might not be that good because once they enter Photon Forge they are locked in it a few seconds without stability and other defensive stuff, but hey, I’m talking about the damage here. It’s ridiculous, and we all agree with that.
You know you have throw elixer b, right? As well as the option to extend the range of your auto attack, or have corona burst grant stab? Stab is the least of a Holosmith’s problems, getting counter-bursted is. However, if you can draw their attention and kite/tank, despite high DPS on their end and possible range while a teammate guns ’em down from afar, your good.
Holo dont have stability if he is not in heat mode. Lack of cobdi clean… If he attack in heat mode just kite him. Then you can kill him.
Scourge…. Eh … Broken?
Hello? You know you can play with team mates that can cover up your weaknesses? They might not be that good because once they enter Photon Forge they are locked in it a few seconds without stability and other defensive stuff, but hey, I’m talking about the damage here. It’s ridiculous, and we all agree with that.
You know you have throw elixer b, right? As well as the option to extend the range of your auto attack, or have corona burst grant stab? Stab is the least of a Holosmith’s problems, getting counter-bursted is. However, if you can draw their attention and kite/tank, despite high DPS on their end and possible range while a teammate guns ’em down from afar, your good.
Of course I know, I’ve been playing an alchemy Holosmith for several hours now. Perma 25 stacks of might in combat, a ranged 3k AoE AA on Forge. My point was that Holosmith with team support becomes even better.
The 25 stacks build is heatwise the most risky one though and requires less spam in holomode to maintain the might bonus (no reduction in heat as in gm1 and no safe detonation as in gm3 + longer delay before overheating until you can access forge again). I found the heat reduction on dodge powerful as that allowed me to get more up time on corona with stability and more hammer time. And its also very potent in a condi build.
For all those saying Scourge doesn’t have any range hate, maybe try fighting ones who actually place the Sand Shades outside of melee range! You get three of them and you can move them around if you don’t spam them all out at once. Place them in your enemy’s path and then say that you can fight them out of melee range. They also have range attacks too.
For all those saying Scourge doesn’t have any range hate, maybe try fighting ones who actually place the Sand Shades outside of melee range! You get three of them and you can move them around if you don’t spam them all out at once. Place them in your enemy’s path and then say that you can fight them out of melee range. They also have range attacks too.
then you playing againts a Necro wrong…
a Melee clas will fight a Necro in ONE way…
jump on the necro FAST with your mobility abilities like charge teleport etcetc and burst the crap out of him then retreat with your superior mobility away from the necros phatetic range.. you will be in the shades for like 2-3 sec max if you do it right
repeat till he dies…
thief is a master of this for an example….
same with mesmer……
this works againts every single existing Necro spec/build
because a necro does not have ANY real defense againts Burst and mobility/kiting….
scourge is really not that good imo….yes it bursts like no necro build before it (but only if your opponent doesnt understand whats going on) soon people will realize not to stand near a scourge to long when he is pulsing sand shroud and the class will be dead…. it has no ability to deal with range except maybe portal(which i cant test) but then that takes away any defensive mobility you have all in all i feel my reaper is leagues stronger in every way except maybe 1v1 engagements.
scourge is really not that good imo….yes it bursts like no necro build before it (but only if your opponent doesnt understand whats going on) soon people will realize not to stand near a scourge to long when he is pulsing sand shroud and the class will be dead…. it has no ability to deal with range except maybe portal(which i cant test) but then that takes away any defensive mobility you have all in all i feel my reaper is leagues stronger in every way except maybe 1v1 engagements.
people Cry because they cant facetank a Necro anymore and get a free kill doing it lol
Scourge has much better ranged pressure than reaper. 4 of its class skills, which are major part of the damage, are instant and can be used while cc´d. The class is beyond broken right now.
Scourge has much better ranged pressure than reaper. 4 of its class skills, which are major part of the damage, are instant and can be used while cc´d. The class is beyond broken right now.
If those 4 skills were ground targetted, I would agree with you. Instead, it’s a small matter to just not stand in the shades and you’re fine.
It really is that simple: stand in the shades and you die. Don’t stand in the shades and you have a shot at winning.
Scourge has much better ranged pressure than reaper. 4 of its class skills, which are major part of the damage, are instant and can be used while cc´d. The class is beyond broken right now.
soooo how long you ben standing in a shade to make that assumption ?
Scourge has much better ranged pressure than reaper. 4 of its class skills, which are major part of the damage, are instant and can be used while cc´d. The class is beyond broken right now.
soooo how long you ben standing in a shade to make that assumption ?
Don’t stand in one……..
I played the scourge. It is actually pretty simple: Scourge, Reaper and Core-Nec have the same ranged options on weapon skills.
The only additional ranged pressure that reaper has (compared to core necro skills) is deathly chill which improves staff 3 and 5.
Scourge on the other hand has F1 which already has more damage than the 1 stack of bleeding and can be combined with an immediate F-skill of your choice. Scepter 3 also procs burning on scourge which increases ranged damage. If you run torch instead of warhorn, the gap becomes even bigger.
Spellbreaker is just fine. Dagger is really weak, it lacks mobility and the damage is mediocre. Full Counter can be countered by blinds and evades. Our spec line is mostly focused on boon-stripping, not so much damage. I’ve played it thoroughly over the first two days and I haven’t gotten that much success. It has its tradeoffs.
Holosmith and Scourge, on the other hand, I agree. They both have absurd damage.
scourge is really not that good imo….yes it bursts like no necro build before it (but only if your opponent doesnt understand whats going on) soon people will realize not to stand near a scourge to long when he is pulsing sand shroud and the class will be dead…. it has no ability to deal with range except maybe portal(which i cant test) but then that takes away any defensive mobility you have all in all i feel my reaper is leagues stronger in every way except maybe 1v1 engagements.
The whole point (in spvp anyways) is that if you have to range a necro, you aren’t standing on point (unless its foefire mid) and if the necro isn’t on point and you are, he can still harass the kitten out of you with shades, or worse, he fights you melee. Its a good win-win situation for the necro to be in now.
All i want to say is, yes, scourge does good damage but they also have the least mobility necros have ever had and their damage is, again, centered around either themselves or their sand shades. I’ve never seen so many people able to kite away from necro so easily, and pretty much every class can.
As for spellbreaker, they are one of the most broken classes and definitely need a resistance nerf. I’ve had trouble killing good spellbreakers even with god boon corrupt scourge and there’s simply no way any other condi class is going to be able to kill them. Period.
I guess everyone had a much different beta experience than I did. I never once came across a Scourge that was difficult to kill. You just lock them in cc and burst them down. It’s insanely easy. And as said above, if you can’t do it all at once, back out, lick your wounds, and go back in and finish the job.
Overall, there wasn’t any one class that stood out as being overpowered. Sure some elites are better than others in PvP, but not op. Sure Scourge and Holosmith do great damage, but they are also easy to focus down. If they nerf the damage, then all that will be left is a spec with mediocre damage that will be easy to burst down, aka crap.
Also, noticing there is a whole lot of demands for nerfs without a single suggestion on what exactly should be nerfed. Sounds like people don’t actually have any idea what is going on with these specs, yet they apparently know it is too strong? Lol.
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All i want to say is, yes, scourge does good damage but they also have the least mobility necros have ever had and their damage is, again, centered around either themselves or their sand shades. I’ve never seen so many people able to kite away from necro so easily, and pretty much every class can.
As for spellbreaker, they are one of the most broken classes and definitely need a resistance nerf. I’ve had trouble killing good spellbreakers even with god boon corrupt scourge and there’s simply no way any other condi class is going to be able to kill them. Period.
Oh no, how dare one class in the game has the ability to withstand and kill the new specs that are outputting insane amounts of condition damage at the cost of being good against non-condi specs. The Spellbreaker is a spec where you choose one thing to counter really well, or you spread yourself thin and are mediocre against everything – rather than being a master-of-all many HoT specs are.
Spellbreaker seems to be the most balanced Elite Spec they’ve made thus far. That’s coming from a War main that felt that it was going to be a totally weak spec. If every class was designed around just being good at one thing like this Spec is the game would be in such a better place.
I used to try and be more polite but I’m just getting so fed up with this mentality of the class you play being like a team you’re on. I may main Warrior but I want the class to be balanced, it’s no fun just destroying everything like back in Cele Shout Bow days. If they designed every class like they have Warrior, the game would be so much healthier. I love my Engi but Holosmith just feels too faceroll with how much damage you put out.
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Soulbeast was completely underwhelming, the new weapon is terrible and the functionality very clunky in general. Worldly Impact is decent, cancelling is nice and easy as well to bait defensives. Outside of that, not being able to swap pet in beast mode is a massive let down … Half of the stances don’t work… The heal , 2 condi removal and a 4k base heal? Really? WHO would take that over troll since you would need to run WS anyway for the immense amount of condi builds popping up. At this moment in time core is way better as well as druid. Massive let down overall.
Scourge is easily better in design and functionality, but I would say it isn’t like you can just pick up the class and be insanely godlike with it , it has some weakness against range but as a melee class without resistance you’re going to get your ass handed to you – the only way to win against that is to bait and cc and pop resistance at the right times to setup burst following CC.
Bear Stance has a 5k base heal and removes up to 8 conditions over 4 seconds for a maximum base heal of ~9k. It’s a good heal.
Against power matchups though? It’s a horrible heal, not even worth taking.
Also, good condi players know it will heal 8 conditions over 4 seconds, hence why nobody would bother throwing conditions on you in this period and make sure to apply poison prior to the very low base heal it provides which would leave you pretty defenseless for the next 25 seconds (of which is also higher than RaO / Troll ungeant when traited) – it’s essentially a much more horrible version of necro’s consume conditions heal.
This is the main reason why people bait CA and just dump conditions onto you after you pop into it nullifying the condi removal on entering CA , same concept and it would be no different here. It should flat out remove 6-7 conditions on heal like the new warrior elite spellbreaker does (which also btw has a 11.6k base heal with demolisher amulet on) or consume all conditions into healing like necro’s heal does, otherwise it’s complete trash.
Good rangers will not slot bear stance and it has no play in this condi meta, why would you when you can just use use WS especially with the new muddy terrain trait which procs on heal? That means I heal 4 conditions in one heal and no I don’t have to wait 4 entire seconds for it to clear 8 condis in this condi spam meta in a less CD with a much higher over time heal? WHaO is also much better.
Again, trash heal , but keep trying to spin it as much as you want.
I like Bear Stance, it actually gives you the option to run a heal that removes conditions and doesn’t force you to stay in place without having to run wilderness survival. It is highly unlikely to ever be part of the meta in its current state (which is mostly true for all but 1 healing of any class anyway) but at least it opens up a few random builds.
Scourge sand shade attacks have 180 radius. I’ve seen it in action during the weekend too. People hating on the scourge are definitely standing near the shades lol. 180 radius is short. You shouldn’t be getting hit by all the shade attacks.
Why are you blaming players for standing near shades, you can cast your shades directly onto people to hit your other f-skills. Shades have 0.5 cast time and the others are instant.
Actually Scourge pretty much has the same weakness as every other build on necro. Actually worse. They are CC’able-they have absolutely no stability unless they trait for it or get lucky and steal it when they corrupt (which is unreliable).
They also have no blocks, no invulns, and barrier drains super fast faster then death shroud. In pvp Im not sure it will be a viable class as once people know how to fight it it will just be punted around most arenas.
In wvw it is certainly very viable provided the barrier abilities prove to be more useful then other things that support classes (note not comparable to healing classes barrier does not heal) can do. That is still to be seen. If the barrier skill gets a bit more love it might have viability in WvW in the long run. At this point just not sure, depends how much they nerf us.
Why are you blaming players for standing near shades, you can cast your shades directly onto people to hit your other f-skills. Shades have 0.5 cast time and the others are instant.
immunities , blocks or even infinite evades say hi…..
or they just simply fast jump in your face CC you to hell and take away a MINIMUM of 50% of your HP the moment you place one down near them on them…
also hard to place it on people that spamming Clones and Invis all day…..
If holosmith is overpowered then thief, guardian,warrior,mesmer,necromancer,mesmer are overpowered
seriously everyone calling doom and gloom on holosmith cuz it can achieve 4k/s dps
thief has been able to spam 6-8k/s with auto attack for over a year without a heat build up mechanic , everyone expects engineer to be mediocre is what seems to be the problem.
If holosmith is overpowered then thief, guardian,warrior,mesmer,necromancer,mesmer are overpowered
seriously everyone calling doom and gloom on holosmith cuz it can achieve 4k/s dps
thief has been able to spam 6-8k/s with auto attack for over a year without a heat build up mechanic , everyone expects engineer to be mediocre is what seems to be the problem.
Scourge has less defenses and worse disengage than Reaper, and reaper was already considered a glass cannon.
Also Scourge has enormous trouble dealing with ranged attackers. It’s got a lot of melee hate though.
Tell that to the pewpew druids I fought Monday morning before Demo was over.
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Scourge has less defenses and worse disengage than Reaper, and reaper was already considered a glass cannon.
Also Scourge has enormous trouble dealing with ranged attackers. It’s got a lot of melee hate though.
One Skill. Poison Cloud. What was that about Ranged attacks again?
Also when we learn how to manage Barrier, we could possibly even outlive Reapers.
Because CPC obviously has 100% uptime. CPC is delay mechanic, it doesn’t change the outcome of the matchup, it just buys you 8 seconds. Assuming of course the circumstances of the fight don’t force you to abandon the CPC early.
Also learning how to use Barriers isn’t going to solve Scourge because Barriers are the least of Scourge’s problems. The problem of Scourge is that it lacks the target control, and counterplay options of Reaper. You don’t have the CC options of Reaper, you don’t have the mobility of Reaper, you don’t have the stability of Reaper. Scourge’s counterplay options are limited to the F4 fear, and Path of Corruption. Oh and thanks to scourge’s boonhate being rips rather corrupts, Scourge can’t even use stability conversion for target control as well as reaper can. Scourge’s counterplay options are essentially limited to trying to burst down the opponent before the scourge dies.
Scourge’s design is basically ye olde Procmancer taken to the extreme, and just like Procmancer it’ll only really work with a dedicated support duo, and be trash elsewhere.
Scourge has less defenses and worse disengage than Reaper, and reaper was already considered a glass cannon.
Also Scourge has enormous trouble dealing with ranged attackers. It’s got a lot of melee hate though.
One Skill. Poison Cloud. What was that about Ranged attacks again?
Also when we learn how to manage Barrier, we could possibly even outlive Reapers.
Because CPC obviously has 100% uptime. CPC is delay mechanic, it doesn’t change the outcome of the matchup, it just buys you 8 seconds. Assuming of course the circumstances of the fight don’t force you to abandon the CPC early.
Also learning how to use Barriers isn’t going to solve Scourge because Barriers are the least of Scourge’s problems. The problem of Scourge is that it lacks the target control, and counterplay options of Reaper. You don’t have the CC options of Reaper, you don’t have the mobility of Reaper, you don’t have the stability of Reaper. Scourge’s counterplay options are limited to the F4 fear, and Path of Corruption. Oh and thanks to scourge’s boonhate being rips rather corrupts, Scourge can’t even use stability conversion for target control as well as reaper can. Scourge’s counterplay options are essentially limited to trying to burst down the opponent before the scourge dies.
Scourge’s design is basically ye olde Procmancer taken to the extreme, and just like Procmancer it’ll only really work with a dedicated support duo, and be trash elsewhere.
Well I think this is why Scourge will end up being an essential class in PvP teams with a ele support whether it be tempest or weaver , weaver might get tuned up in this period because people complained about it’s damage. It’s already an amazing support class overall.
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