Guild Wars 2

I’ve always struggled to find a PvP game I could enjoy. Maybe I’m just overly competitive, analytical, and critical, but the vast majority of games have at least a few issues that ruin them for me.

In the case of GW2, the most irritating thing is the way counter-play is set up.

In structured PvP and small scale fights It’s mostly build based with a lack of counter-strategies outside of your characters skills, which are also limited in the variety of strategies you have available to you in a given build, leading to “hopeless fights”. When one side has an advantage, the other side just isn’t given the tools necessary to counter and defeat them.

In WvW it’s even worse. The majority of fights have a consistent victor, often determined by the size of the group and their coordination, while the disadvantaged side can do little to nothing to fight back. The strength of an individual is too low (AoE cap of 5) and group sustainability is too high for smaller numbers to be effective, especially with the downed state. Siege rarely tips the scale due to the large numbers needed for it to be effective and loses that effectiveness once the enemy gets close, which is easy enough with a Mesmer portal or more often, just running through.

To me, this type of combat is tedious and un-enjoyable. It’s disheartening running into an opponent you are “hopeless” against, and dull when your team just gives up on fighting completely, knowing they can’t do anything to defeat the opponent.

Surely I can’t be alone in this viewpoint.

It is a challenge. With small teams in WvW, you just don’t run in to full zerg. It is wise to quit fighting, unless you agree to stay together to the last paw up.

It is annoying to die in WvW/EotM but I have figured out my way to fight there and stay alive longer.

Edit: Think how much fun it is to opponent. Give them nice day.

Small groups can still own the roaming scene providing a tight coordination and sound battle plan.

If you feel hopeless in battles, it’s time to question how to become a better player.

AnniMira.2506:

It is a challenge. With small teams in WvW, you just don’t run in to full zerg. It is wise to quit fighting, unless you agree to stay together to the last paw up.

It is annoying to die in WvW/EotM but I have figured out my way to fight there and stay alive longer.

Edit: Think how much fun it is to opponent. Give them nice day.

And don’t you think that’s the wrong thing to expect out of WvW?

I could understand strategically avoiding the enemy to gain an advantage over them, but that’s not what’s going on here. Players are avoiding each-other because they are unable to fight them, which strikes me as the game mode being flawed or poorly designed if that was the intent.

Iris Ng.9845:

Small groups can still own the roaming scene providing a tight coordination and sound battle plan.

If you feel hopeless in battles, it’s time to question how to become a better player.

Thanks, although that’s not necessarily the type of situation I’m trying to bring up here, neither is player skill or knowledge.

The design of the game doesn’t allow for enough counter-play; you are not given the capability to adapt or use the surroundings to large enough effect as to reliably defeat an opponent you are innately disadvantaged against.

Had the players in the first video fought an opponent with similar communication, builds, and skill, but larger numbers, the tactics that could be used to overcome that opponent are what I’m talking about.

There are multiple times they (the group in the first video) retreated and picked up the stray instead of fighting head on in vain. I think the key is to pick the fight that suit you, and avoid the disadvantageous one. The two videos I linked display this tactic very clearly. For instance,

• The hard counter-play of engineer is necromancer. In a 1v1 fight, Wolf advises you to run away from it. In a group fight, necromancer/engi/ele/thief was singled out and focused first.
• He also uses terrain to line of sight multiple enemies, knowing when and how to disengage
• If you watch other videos in his channel, you can see how he adapts in different situations as well.

So what you’re saying is that if a group of skilled players fight against a larger group of equally skilled players, they have no chance of victory? Well….yeah, that’s how it works. Think about it like this: if a team of 5 of the best soccer players on Earth went up against a team of 10 of the best soccer players on Earth, the team of 5 would lose every single time. The only time a smaller team wins is when their skill level is higher, but you’re arguing that even if the big team was a good team they should still be able to lose? That doesn’t make sense at all.

You’re not alone.

Bri.8354:

The design of the game doesn’t allow for enough counter-play; you are not given the capability to adapt or use the surroundings to large enough effect as to reliably defeat an opponent you are innately disadvantaged against.

There are counters of which you speak, it’s just that you’re forced into a build which has it’s limits. It’ll either be a counter, be countered, or be even. This prevents god mode players that can utilise everything a class has to offer, significantly lowers the skill cap, makes it more enjoyable for lesser-skilled players, and, reduces the extent of adapting to things like line-of-sighting and utilising the environment, thereby requiring a mobile class such as thief or mesmer.

Other counters, which, one might argue are not really counters but tactical decisions, are the closest you can get with a build vs build concept. That is to save cool downs for after the opponent uses a particular skill, have an escape or hiding spot planned and be in position to use it when needed (this includes having necessary resources available when the time comes). A common example is to poison while they cast heal, or interrupt a heal, or chill an elementalist right after they exit water attunement, using a lot of blinds against players wielding slower weapons, or use crowd control/immobilise so a temporary resource like a buff or life force ticks away unable to be used.