Guild Wars 2

Definitely don’t remove rewards for hotjoin.

I used to do mainly unranked/ranked (always solo). What pushed me into hotjoin was the daily wins requirement. When it was win x times on any prof, sure I’d go ranked. But with prof-limited dailies, it requires playing alts (only have 1 char for pvp, don’t like the others).
In ranked/unranked, I would always cap points and try to help the team, but if I’m forced to play alts for rewards, I’m a hindrance to my team. And the requirement to win the match for reward only makes it worse. Requiring a match win means that on my main 1-2 matches, I’ll have daily done. On my alts, it tended to be 5-10 matches before I got that single win for daily. In hotjoin, you can do a match and make sure you get the reward first time.

That said, the day you’re required to play a match with a certain prof for daily, I’ll be back to ranked/unranked.
But requiring a win means that I’m going to free myself from the frustration and just play a hotjoin with match decided (one of the custom, where winning team is decided before start).

I’m not a natural pvp’er. I can play pvp and have fun and I’ll always try to win. But the moment I’m required to win for a reward, I’ll either look for a way to play the system or just walk off. It’s just too stressful otherwise.

I can’t see why hotjoin like what I do in custom arenas would bother anyone though. The others in the arena also joined for the same reason. None of us would be any good to have in unranked/ranked. So why not just let ppl play the way they feel comfortable playing?

butch.8136:

Hotjoin is such a poor experience that people either quit pvp or they become a true hotjoin hero, which shows when they join unranked.
They can practice in unranked too, and they’ll learn quicker.
If matchmaking works better, you shouldn’t notice them.

You dont have a clue , 3 years now :P
And as long i see you sig , i would love to do some conversations with you …..every….single… time :P
And i will keep doing for any GW1 or WoW or e-sport player …. till they mature and admit their mistakes ……

Hotjoin retained the community , that why it had more population that the normal ques for straight 2 years , until they got removed .

And later on when they offered Lamms in the Tournaments , you did see 200 + an aditional 200 teams …… so you pity theory that Hotjoin scared new ppl , it wayyyyyyy off wrong ….3 years now

Becauce it has no que + no Disshonor and less chances to find an 1v1 imbalances , it kept the light on so the PvP population to not turned off completly from
the PvP , while the the rest of the eleitism where spuing that ‘’balance doesnt matter in lower lvl’’ and ‘’as long thee are athletes , ppl will flock in the stadium’’

That went extremly well for the ques :P

And it had more depth than anything else :
a) You had new ppl that followed 2 others from bases to base and protect each other .
Just like we see atm with teams cap 2 bases and send the 3 others team8s to zerg the space between
(theres a reason why newer ppl join 10v10 or 40v40 PvP matches first in various other MMos …..and not straight to 2v2 or 3v3)

b) You can Back-cap , where ppl after while , when they get accustomed to the map , tried to flip back the bases , to mess with the 3-4 man zergs
Like atm

c) ppl that felt marvelous to be chased by 4-5 ppl and they do their best to escape (ME!!!)

That why Hotjoin 8v8 or 5v5 exised more than …….. custom Countryard 8v8 (14 days it lasted ?)

Edit:
Let me be honest , why i keep ’’pushing’’ you
a)New players in the x-pack ’’MIGHT’’ ask for a bigger sized maps (8v8-10v10)
b) You will show up because implanting once more 8v8 ‘’MIGHT’ creates a more quetimes
c) You will do anything to stop that , so your LEAGUE que will be short
d) I need you and the rest of the ‘’old community’’ to not kitten this up ……. not in this x-pack ….. otherwise you will have a scorpion ….stinging your kitten for the rest of the year

no.. it will just push pve people into unranked.

zaxon.6819:

no.. it will just push pve people into unranked.

No… It will push PvPers into unranked. Dont force me to wait 15 minutes to play a 7 minute match.

Nova Stiker.8396:

zaxon.6819:

no.. it will just push pve people into unranked.

No… It will push PvPers into unranked. Dont force me to wait 15 minutes to play a 7 minute match.

no. ppl will stop playing for good.

enjoy your longer queue times.

Nova Stiker.8396:

runeblade.7514:

SnowCow.5914:

Not remove but limit rewards for hotjoins more.

No need to. Hotjoin rewards are already low. Unranked has 3x more reward.

and 50x the wait time.

Hotjoin has a limit. Unrank doesn’t.

I’ve always only done the custom arenas to do the daily, hardcore pve person you know, but maybe I should look into playing the the ranked/unrated thing since you guys say the rewards are so good. I won’t be interested in doing any actual PvP, of course, but I could lurk at the spawn point till I see the opportunity to join up with a team mate fighting against another person, I will only need 3 of those. Then follow a teammate to cap a spot and on defend days help him kill someone. After that I could just join and AFK at the spawn point till I get my profession win. If being AFK ever gets to be a problem I guess I could jump down occasionally and let myself be killed so I don’t register for that. If it works out, there are some people I might be able to talk into trying it out.

Or, I could just keep on doing the PvP dailies in the custom arenas.

I have no opinion on removing rewards for hotjoin.

They could implement a rank restriction on servers though (not on custom ones)
so people that just started to pvp can actually practise instead of fighting rank 80’s
a few servers for rank 1-30 / rank 31-60 and 60+ or whatever.
That way you can actually practise and learn how to pvp based on how much time you spend in pvp (since thats all that pvp rank does).
Instead of getting zerged by high ranks switching to whatever side is winning creating an even more uneven match.

Also.. why are some of these pve hotjoin heroes so toxic.
I don’t join dungeons to afk and get my pve rewards or pve daily.
I’d problably get kicked for being afk and added to peoples blocklists.

Why do you want to afk in pvp so badly and still get rewarded for it.
You can do the pvp daily practically by playing and winning 1 match in unranked.
It takes 15 minutes of your day.
And in those 15 minutes you want to ruin the game for 9 other players.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Nova Stiker.8396:

zaxon.6819:

no.. it will just push pve people into unranked.

No… It will push PvPers into unranked. Dont force me to wait 15 minutes to play a 7 minute match.

no. ppl will stop playing for good.

enjoy your longer queue times.

What is the relationship between removing rewards from hotjoin and increased queue times in unranked? Logically it will be the other way round, the more players playing unranked, the shorter the queue times.

The only ppl who might stop playing are those currently playing hotjoin for their easy dailies and they will just do PvE dailies instead. The remainder who prefer doing them in PvP are just the sort of players you need to increase the player base and reduce queue times.

The only other common argument that seems to have come out of this thread is from players who don’t want a sudden influx of inexperienced to players because they think they might get teamed up with some of them.

The main catalyst of course to this discussion is the class win dailies, which are the cause of the chaos in hotjoin – Another simple solution would be to replace these with a class full match participation daily where the player needs to be present and active for the whole match.

Unranked has what… 5 minute ques? The rewards are decent, even if you lose, and the combat is fun.

I mean sure, if you’re the type of pvper that simply cant handle losing, fine, but otherwise? Get your feet wet kitten .

I mean, I am NOT good at pvp, but I would never touch hotjoin, I’ve read some descriptions and thats all I needed to read. Also, there hasnt been a single day when I havent been able to get my wins on the professions listed, sure it might take 4-5 matches sometimes but I get there and in the end it teaches me about general skill usage for multiple classes, makes me think about the builds on my alts to try and maximize my playstyle.

There are plenty enough dailies from PvE and WvWvW is you just want daily completion :S

Sampo.9678:

Also.. why are some of these pve hotjoin heroes so toxic.
I don’t join dungeons to afk and get my pve rewards or pve daily.
I’d problably get kicked for being afk and added to peoples blocklists.

Why do you want to afk in pvp so badly and still get rewarded for it.
You can do the pvp daily practically by playing and winning 1 match in unranked.
It takes 15 minutes of your day.
And in those 15 minutes you want to ruin the game for 9 other players.

Have you ever been in a match where you see four players in the top left hand corner suddenly went to green then to red and then to black at the same time and consistently? Have you ever seen a 200-20 points split? I rather just ragequit and go into another match. But I don’t get that option, so I am better off just afking so I can get some reward.

In hotjoin, I get that option.

Well, the new experience booster is out. Hotjoin is right now EVEN MORE TOXIC. People constantly swapping sides for rewards.

The problem is not the rewards, the problem is people do that kitten and still get rewarded.

_

ArenaNet, this is 99% of your PvP matches. All of your PvP matches that goes on, this is the 99%. At one point is this okay?

I still dont understand how unranked work vs ranked. I alwayd play ranked. I stick to dailies custom maps on classes i am not good at.

but one thing for me, i dont really care much about my win/lose stats. I like the rank up reward chest and track rewards.

for me personally, i wouldnt mind an option to queue into matches that have already started but has a out numbered group because somebody left.

I want to get into the queue faster while still having fun and getting my rewards.

honestly my biggest complaint it the lame 5v5 pvp modes. But thats never going to change.

So i am still trying to figure out the general complaint here that others seem to be having with the system.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Well, the new experience booster is out. Hotjoin is right now EVEN MORE TOXIC. People constantly swapping sides for rewards.

The problem is not the rewards, the problem is people do that kitten and still get rewarded.

_

ArenaNet, this is 99% of your PvP matches. All of your PvP matches that goes on, this is the 99%. At one point is this okay?

Yup – there’s more of a chance that a Dev will respond to a this thread than finding a 5v5 match in hotjoin, yet I’ve seen so many posts where a player playing a ranked game complains about losing a game and a Dev is in their like a shot providing a detailed explanation of their win/loss ration. how their % chance of winning the game was calculated, etc etc -

Please Anet, put some time and effort into fixing where the VAST majority of your players are playing PvP – What is ironic is that If the same risk v reward scenario existed anywhere in PvE, it would be deemed an exploit and fixed immediately.

Daroon.1736:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Well, the new experience booster is out. Hotjoin is right now EVEN MORE TOXIC. People constantly swapping sides for rewards.

The problem is not the rewards, the problem is people do that kitten and still get rewarded.

_

ArenaNet, this is 99% of your PvP matches. All of your PvP matches that goes on, this is the 99%. At one point is this okay?

Yup – there’s more of a chance that a Dev will respond to a this thread than finding a 5v5 match in hotjoin, yet I’ve seen so many posts where a player playing a ranked game complains about losing a game and a Dev is in their like a shot providing a detailed explanation of their win/loss ration. how their % chance of winning the game was calculated, etc etc -

Please Anet, put some time and effort into fixing where the VAST majority of your players are playing PvP – What is ironic is that If the same risk v reward scenario existed anywhere in PvE, it would be deemed an exploit and fixed immediately.

Red resign day. Any GW1 vet knows that all to well. ArenaNet has an entire history of letting PvP to have exploiting issues.

What the hell is the design team doing?

Nova Stiker.8396:

Daroon.1736:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Well, the new experience booster is out. Hotjoin is right now EVEN MORE TOXIC. People constantly swapping sides for rewards.

The problem is not the rewards, the problem is people do that kitten and still get rewarded.

_

ArenaNet, this is 99% of your PvP matches. All of your PvP matches that goes on, this is the 99%. At one point is this okay?

Yup – there’s more of a chance that a Dev will respond to a this thread than finding a 5v5 match in hotjoin, yet I’ve seen so many posts where a player playing a ranked game complains about losing a game and a Dev is in their like a shot providing a detailed explanation of their win/loss ration. how their % chance of winning the game was calculated, etc etc -

Please Anet, put some time and effort into fixing where the VAST majority of your players are playing PvP – What is ironic is that If the same risk v reward scenario existed anywhere in PvE, it would be deemed an exploit and fixed immediately.

Red resign day. Any GW1 vet knows that all to well. ArenaNet has an entire history of letting PvP to have exploiting issues.

What the hell is the design team doing?

I very rarely played PvP in Gw1 but even I remember that – As I recall though there wasn’t the incentive of easy rewards though.

Please, No! Leave Hot Join as it is.

It is the perfect catch-all for PvE AP farmers. They will migrate to Ranked and Unranked matches if you remove the rewards… And that would be bad. Like, really bad.

I can easily tolerate a new player in competitive matches, that wants to learn, but I can’t tolerate an AP farmer getting rofl stomped in 2s flat every 20s on my team. Noo thank you!

Archon.6480:

Please, No! Leave Hot Join as it is.

It is the perfect catch-all for PvE AP farmers. They will migrate to Ranked and Unranked matches if you remove the rewards… And that would be bad. Like, really bad.

I can easily tolerate a new player in competitive matches, that wants to learn, but I can’t tolerate an AP farmer getting rofl stomped in 2s flat every 20s on my team. Noo thank you!

Yes, it would be a bad thing if that happened, but I don’t believe it would for 2 main reasons:

1) The amount of time taken to do the PvP dailies would be on par with the Pve ones, so the AP farmers would simply go back to PvE – What would be left would be an influx of those who do want to learn who would be subject to the matchmaking process and therefore (primarily, initially at least) be playing each other. Eventually, as these players progress and learn, you would benefit from reduced queue times and a healthier playerbase.

2) In addition to the above, playing unranked commits you to at least a 2 minute queue time and with no side switching and equal numbers, on top you have probably (at least) a further 2-3 minutes of game time before it might become apparent that the team they are on might lose and they quit – assuming they are going for the profession daily. This might be a problem initially. but I’m pretty sure that after a few days, those simply looking to complete their 4 dailies in PvP will just go elsewhere as the time commitment is too great when you cannot guarantee a win because the ability to queue sit and join the winning team or switch sides mid match no longer exist.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’ve always only done the custom arenas to do the daily, hardcore pve person you know, but maybe I should look into playing the the ranked/unrated thing since you guys say the rewards are so good. I won’t be interested in doing any actual PvP, of course, but I could lurk at the spawn point till I see the opportunity to join up with a team mate fighting against another person, I will only need 3 of those. Then follow a teammate to cap a spot and on defend days help him kill someone. After that I could just join and AFK at the spawn point till I get my profession win. If being AFK ever gets to be a problem I guess I could jump down occasionally and let myself be killed so I don’t register for that. If it works out, there are some people I might be able to talk into trying it out.

Or, I could just keep on doing the PvP dailies in the custom arenas.

^ that’s why hotjoin needs to have rewards. removing rank progress on the other hand, i feel is completely fair. removing rewards is just going to make unranked into more of an afk cesspool than it already is.

Daroon.1736:

1) The amount of time taken to do the PvP dailies would be on par with the Pve ones, so the AP farmers would simply go back to PvE – What would be left would be an influx of those who do want to learn who would be subject to the matchmaking process and therefore (primarily, initially at least) be playing each other. Eventually, as these players progress and learn, you would benefit from reduced queue times and a healthier playerbase.

2) In addition to the above, playing unranked commits you to at least a 2 minute queue time and with no side switching and equal numbers, on top you have probably (at least) a further 2-3 minutes of game time before it might become apparent that the team they are on might lose and they quit – assuming they are going for the profession daily. This might be a problem initially. but I’m pretty sure that after a few days, those simply looking to complete their 4 dailies in PvP will just go elsewhere as the time commitment is too great when you cannot guarantee a win because the ability to queue sit and join the winning team or switch sides mid match no longer exist.

No. Wrong. The PvE dailies can be so annoying and tedious now depending on the rotation you get that it is more often than not faster to go for the PvP ones, even via unranked queue.

Because of this, friends of mine actually find empty custom arenas with no one else and trade wins off each other for the dailies, without disrupting anyone else in hotjoin.

Your suggestion would screw them over needlessly. And even if that weren’t the case, I see no good reason to remove reward track/daily progress accumulation from hotjoin/custom arena at all. And I utterly hate the mode and almost never go to it, save for helping my friends get their dailies done faster.

So, please no. With no rewards, nothing to gain from Hotjoin, it may as well be removed. Your suggestion is not a solution in my eyes, and would make things worse.

runeblade.7514:

Have you ever been in a match where you see four players in the top left hand corner suddenly went to green then to red and then to black at the same time and consistently? Have you ever seen a 200-20 points split? I rather just ragequit and go into another match. But I don’t get that option, so I am better off just afking so I can get some reward.

In hotjoin, I get that option.

What you are doing is fine in hotjoin yes.
I was reffering to people who do this in unranked/ranked games.

Again to the point, rewards are fine but a hotjoin rework is needed for it to be actually a practice place. New players wanting to learn how to pvp and click the practise button. Get to join a server full of high ranks switching to whatever team is winning. To create an even bigger imbalance.
And they’re like, wow the pvp in this game sure sucks.
Keep your custom servers with whatever pve farm rules you have on it but change the default ones so we can actually welcome new pvp players.

Also, lol at some people complaining about long queue times and at the same time complain about new people joining pvp.
You can’t have shorter queue times if you don’t welcome new players and give them feedback on what they do wrong or right.
Yea go ahead and tell that pve noob to go back to pve, enjoy your long queue times forever.

While I don’t feel that any rewards should be given to players who don’t actually earn them…. keep in mind the “practice” mode keeps a lot of pve players out of our hair in unranked mode.

I would see absolutely no problem doing this at all if anet implemented the dishonor system and allowed players to report for leeching.

It worked very well in gw1…. if you had someone afking a match, the other players in the game reported him and he recieved the dishonorable buff.

Removing the rewards from practice without adding the dishonor and report system would be catastrophic.

Lowering queue times for Unranked queue would be great, so i’m for removing the exploitable easy dailies from hotjoin aswell as all other rewards.

Hotjoin doesn’t give a good impression of what Gw2 PvP should be. (Also please reduce/remove the 1min stale period before a game begins for unranked and give us the ability to auto queue when a game is completed.)

No removal! If you remove the rewards, it’s possible that PvP will be flooded with players that only go for the daily rewards which would make it even worse.

I stated on the front page good ideas to revamp the PvP experience. Doubt a dev would read it though

Stebene.9275:

No removal! If you remove the rewards, it’s possible that PvP will be flooded with players that only go for the daily rewards which would make it even worse.

This seems to be a fair summary of the only main argument against removing rewards from Hotjoin and it is completely flawed.

Unranked and Ranked have matchmaking applied to them – the flood of players (if it happened) that everyone seems so concerned about, would have have very low MMR’s and would only end up playing each other. Anyone who has played unranked or ranked would be entirely unaffected as their MMR’s would be much higher.

hotjoin is where you go when you have given up on life and completely hate yourself.

Daroon.1736:

Stebene.9275:

No removal! If you remove the rewards, it’s possible that PvP will be flooded with players that only go for the daily rewards which would make it even worse.

This seems to be a fair summary of the only main argument against removing rewards from Hotjoin and it is completely flawed.

Unranked and Ranked have matchmaking applied to them – the flood of players (if it happened) that everyone seems so concerned about, would have have very low MMR’s and would only end up playing each other. Anyone who has played unranked or ranked would be entirely unaffected as their MMR’s would be much higher.

Actually I rather liked my reasons.

No. For one I find it extremely boring to sit in the lobby and wait for a que in ranked or unranked by myself knowing I could likely be fighting a premade group. And no I’m not complaining about premades, I’m okay with them I just don’t fancy the idea of fighting them when I qued alone. Secondly I like hotjoin, it’s more fun to me. I like getting to play matches with the same people and getting a chance to chat, I like the more chill atmosphere, I like instantly being able to join. It’s just more fun to me and I don’t mind getting less reward because I enjoy it more anyways. Leave it like it is, people will play what they want to play lol.

Now see to me a fair summary of your main argument is that your upset more people don’t like your preferred game mode and since there’s a good amount of people that play hotjoin and enjoy it you think you can make your mode better by forcing hotjoin players to que up and join un/ranked games. This is a game, everyone gets fun out of it in their own way and I don’t want to nor will I be forced to play a game the way someone else wants me to just because they aren’t happy enough with their own form of play. If you want to do ranked and never go into hotjoin fine, that’s your decision, but please leave my game mode alone if you don’t like it then, thank you.

you want people to join your match and leave immediately after they capture a point?

I don’t think you want those people in your match. That’s why it is a good idea to have daily arena.

My opinion there isn’t even many new people in hotjoin. Most are daily farmers and serious pvpers who try to get better.

Moonlit.6421:

Actually I rather liked my reasons.

No. For one I find it extremely boring to sit in the lobby and wait for a que in ranked or unranked by myself knowing I could likely be fighting a premade group. And no I’m not complaining about premades, I’m okay with them I just don’t fancy the idea of fighting them when I qued alone. Secondly I like hotjoin, it’s more fun to me. I like getting to play matches with the same people and getting a chance to chat, I like the more chill atmosphere, I like instantly being able to join. It’s just more fun to me and I don’t mind getting less reward because I enjoy it more anyways. Leave it like it is, people will play what they want to play lol.

Now see to me a fair summary of your main argument is that your upset more people don’t like your preferred game mode and since there’s a good amount of people that play hotjoin and enjoy it you think you can make your mode better by forcing hotjoin players to que up and join un/ranked games. This is a game, everyone gets fun out of it in their own way and I don’t want to nor will I be forced to play a game the way someone else wants me to just because they aren’t happy enough with their own form of play. If you want to do ranked and never go into hotjoin fine, that’s your decision, but please leave my game mode alone if you don’t like it then, thank you.

Actually I like your reasons too, but your wrong about the ‘my mode’ thing.
I too hate queuing, so seldom play un-ranked or ranked.

What I don’t see though when I play hotjoin, is the chill atmosphere you describe. What I see instead is the vast majority if players abusing the fact that they can choose or change sides for the whole duration of a match, quit without being penalized and sit in the queue and wait for an autobalance to join the winning side, with the root of these problems being (mainly) the professional win dailies.

Daroon.1736:

the root of these problems being (mainly) the professional win dailies.

then we remove profession win dailies, not hotjoin, einstein.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Daroon.1736:

the root of these problems being (mainly) the professional win dailies.

then we remove profession win dailies, not hotjoin, einstein.

Couldn’t agree more – I haven’t seen a single post that indicates that everyone doesn’t agree that this isn’t the cause of all the problems in hotjoin.

Sadly though Anet seems intent on keeping the professional win dailies and allowing players to join and leave hotjoin games at will, so removing rewards (I never suggested removing hotjoin) seemed to me like a good topic for discussion.

I am all for removing every in-game reward in this mini game called spvp has to offer (if i want shinnies i go pve) including unranked and ranked. do it Anet you have my permission.

Daroon.1736:

Actually I like your reasons too, but your wrong about the ‘my mode’ thing.
I too hate queuing, so seldom play un-ranked or ranked.

What I don’t see though when I play hotjoin, is the chill atmosphere you describe. What I see instead is the vast majority if players abusing the fact that they can choose or change sides for the whole duration of a match, quit without being penalized and sit in the queue and wait for an autobalance to join the winning side, with the root of these problems being (mainly) the professional win dailies.

I can agree with you on some of that. Every day I see people abusing the system whether it be just leaving your team or waiting until auto balance forces a switch and then joining the winning side, it’s far from rare sadly. Honestly I find it rather disappointing just because I pvp for fun so I dislike it when I see people so desperate for a win they’ll try and take advantage of things. Me personally I couldn’t care less about winning, and every time I join a match that’s already started if possible I join the losing team just because all I want to do is fight and enjoy myself and I see no reason to screw over the losing team even more so when I can just as easily fight for the losing team. The rewards are nice and the finishers cool but I’m not going to farm wins just get to more, I don’t mind slower progress as long as I can still fight an have fun whenever I want. As for dailies honestly, I don’t so them either lol. The only time I do any kind of dailies in pvp are when they just happen to be on he profession I feel like playing. ^^" While most of the pvp community don’t seem to share this sentiment I’ll agree, one reason I love hotjoin is because every so often you’ll meet someone else there to have a good time and you get the chance to fight and play with them more after the match and I find it enjoyable.

no…. cuz of farming exploits

You dont’ want people doing daily AP to join your rank or unranked game.

Those are the types of people who would left after they capture a point or start losing.

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ want people doing daily AP to join your rank or unranked game.

Those are the types of people who would left after they capture a point or start losing.

Repeating the same post twice doesn’t make you point any more valid. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn’t – we’ll never know unless rewards get removed and the overall effect on PvP can be determined.

Personally as I have indicated I don’t believe this would happen. Your daily farmers are soon going to get bored of waiting for 3 minutes to rejoin a game they have no certainty of winning because they can’t autobalance, switch sides or leave without having to queue – Finding a vista to view in the Shiverpeaks or logging a couple of trees in maguma would become the preferred option to complete dailies and only those that actually want to play PvP would remain.

You need 3 task to complete the daily. There isn’t always 3 easy task.

take for example capture a point, it is really easy to do.

I never did catpure a point daily before just because I dont’ want to disturb pvp players. Untill recently I spend 200 gold on my own arena to do dailys. I dont’ know about the pvp daily arena before.