Guild Wars 2

Since it´s clear alot of player’s are peeved by anet’s usual community unfriendly decisions about their PvP in GW2, i decided to give quick run down what player’s more likely exspected and how it’s better then the current state of the map

1. 8v8 guild matches
period, no questions asked for tournements. (option for guild free in a seperate mode is always given for practice and unranked)

2. Size
It’s obvious that stronghold was specificly designed for 5v5 in its size and too boring lane design
The maps need to be sized for 8v8. of course it would feel clustered on a way to small map.

3. Design
One lane each team? Only one entrance to a base? REALLY?
The beauty of original GvG was the possibility to choose where to enter and leave a base, that provides some sort of cover for a splitt up.
So like GvG the mode needs three lanes: one in the middle shared by both teams for defence and attack and one lane for each base’s secound entry, which can like in classic GvG start as a split of the main middle lane.

4. Siege of a base – Defence:
This was without a doubt a huge problem in GW1: gates had a switch inside the base to be opened and were indestrucable.
Gw2 introduced the short range teleport with gates and the destructable nature and I can understand that Anet doesn´t want us do rail on gates for five minutes jsut because it has massiv amounts of HP.
Solution: DON`T give the gate massiv amounts of HP. Rather give the defending team means to either repell or repair the gate from the inside themselfs. It doesn´t have to negate the effort by the attacking team to zero, but it should be able to buy time for a splitt off team (most cases 3 people, which would leave 5 to defend which then helps with buffs /but thats shouldn´t be an issue anyway since anet has allready made pve specifics skill changes without influencing PvP skill use recently. so the 5 people maximum with most buffs can be easily changed to 8 during a GvG stronghold match.)
Another NPC could provide aggresive defence options like arrow carts and oil pots.
and to keep as a supporting feature, the defending team can employ repair npcs, which are short lived and can give some repair boosts to the gate OR the players to repair faster,
and on the matter of supporting NPCs

5. Siege of bases – Attack:
Like in the previewous point stated, the attacking team DOESneed to attack the gate themselfs, however to combat the effort of the defending team, the attacking team can also deploy supporting NPCs, such as the skritt, that has been allready shown in the recent Ready Up, and other NPCs to boost their attack for siege (attack raised against structures and NOT npcs and players) or reduced damage from arrow carts and oil pots. And again here can be the team splitt for either countering he opposite splitt OR…..

6. Moralboost?
As we know the orignal GVG had a moralboost system taken over by the PvE aspect (or the other way around) which granted those who recived it more hp and more energie.
Since this is not really releveant in GW2 anymore this aspect of flag running seems absolute right?
Not really, since the flag running in of itself is STILL possible, due to the fact that we have TONS of environmental weapons including planks, flags, stones, rifles, shovels etc etc.
Back in gw1 however a flag ment only classes that had skills that are free from weapon use could run the flag most of the time, sorting out every class that relied on weapon based skills. ofcourse they still could use skills, that wear not hindered by it, but it made the class besides running the flag useless. and thus mostly casters like eles and ritualists where the dominant flag runners for a long time.
NOW in gw2 environmental weapons however have their own attack skills assigned to them, which is benefital to keep the holy trinity dead even in these situations.
where am i goin with this?
well the constant running back and forth of EVERYONE to summon one or two npcs is a flawed design and distract from the actual fight against the opposing team too much. it´s also in my opinion one of the majoy reason WHY the current stronghold can become to clustered.
BECAUSE people have to constantly run back and forth just to deliver the rescource for supporting NPCs. And it causes splitts that are prone to fail easily to do it.
Even in a grand scale stronghold that im describing it would just make the game way to hectic.
Introducing the allready existing environmental weapons.
LIKE in gw1 the same principal should aply:
carry the let’s say the stack of hay to the cow stables in the middle of the map and main lane and hinder the opposite team to do the same.
BUT unlike gw1, stronghold doesn´t use a HP buff. It refills a teams rescoure up to a 10 point maximum in a constant rate. It also forces both teams to care about it since it vital to have enough NPC suport on the siege to either win the match OR start a counter attack. it also requires sometimes to split teams; so that the main bulk proceeds with the attack/defence of a base and the splitt teams fight over the RESCOURCEBOOST.
And depending on a NPC you need so and so much rescources to spawn It.

7. EXTRAS
Like Gw1, gw2 has many biomes and assets to choose from and create several maps with the points mentioned above and add little details and extra features to each map to make them feel unique and fresh.
Some of these could be shourt lived environmental effects like acid rain or hard to pass paths ways for like 20-30 secounds, maybe even alternative ways to optain mini boosts to rescources like svanir or the chieftain from spiritwatch.
But they should remain optional and only bring spice to a match rather then beeing an deciding factor for victory.

8. Conclusion
Like i said before this description probably is more what people exspected with stronghold rather then JUST ONE new map for pug pvp.
This run down essentialy tried to keep the actualy core element of the REAL GvG while also including as many ideas from the current state of stronghold to ACTUALY create “GvG 2.0”
I hope this threat finds its eyes from the devs and some pasionate veteran gvg enthusiast, who would love to see the probably BEST MMO PVP mode EVOR return in new glory.
I also appritiate ideas and concepts for stuff that I might have missed out from original GvG or even from more infos, that arise about the new map.

I agree with this on many levels. These are all good suggestions and honestly I think ANET should back up and reconsider how to make this game mode, even if it means delaying until the map is recreated and/or they have at least 4 maps for it.

I think your biggest point is your first one: They need to make this for GUILDS. This will drive the competition of the game and would be enormous for the mode and game in general. I’m sorry if it steps on people’s toes, but this mode should not be casual. Design it for guilds like in GW, with only Ranked (with an in game Ranking system like GW) and Scrim and then Tourney for those who signed up. Redesign and make Stronghold for Guilds and competition; leave conquest for casuals and lesser form of competition.

This game mode needs more effort and focus and it could be amazing. Expand the size of the map, bump it to 8v8, include a flag stand with some form of bonus (maybe even consider death penalty in this mode because it would help matches end faster because of the nature of the combat; time was a problem on GW GvG for some people), make the map designed around 3+ lanes and send npcs down all of them, and include in game ranking and ladder for this.

8v8 is too many people.

5 v 5 is too few people.

Johje Holan.4607:

5 v 5 is too few people.

Whole game engine was designed around 5 v 5 so anything else is kind of bandaid fixes/work arounds.

Stop asking for an exact replica of GvG. its not going to happen.

GW1 and GW2 are both fundamentally different.

If GW2 could release modding tools and support custom maps like other competitive games we would have tons of new content including maps for GvG.

I’m afraid that in such a wide map, 5v5 or even 8v8 will leave most of the map empty. I don’t understand why they didn’t add creep waves. You want to fill the map with as much warfare as you want. The idea of gathering supplies at a central location to bring it back sounds bad to me. Central location of supplies will create zergs and waste the potential for roaming or ambushing other areas. And even if you do gather supplies the time you spend bringing it back is time you’re not doing what PvP is about: Stomping nubz lolololol. No, but really, you want it to feel like a big battle to differentiate from conquest, kinda like a miniature WvW.

As long as it doesn’t have a bunch of key fighting spots which will insert the camera into the back of my head then I think I’ll be ok with pretty much anything.

I have to fundamentally disagree with the notion of attacking gates = fun. That’s kind of a silly argument. What’s fun about attacking a gate for 60 seconds to destroy it? I can say that their solution is a good solid attempt to find a way around playing attack the gate and towards playing the map.

With that being said, I still think this gamemode is a terrible idea. It will get back next to none of the original crowd that they are hoping to gather. This still poses the same problem that capture points did, it doesn’t promote cohesive teamfights – rather people all split up handling different tasks and maybe occasionally merging together to accomplish a push.

I will say this once more as I have many many times…
An RPG PvP NEEDS to be a completely teamfight focused play style where the combat revolves around prolonged full out XvX combat. Not small skirmishes.

Diage.6451:

I have to fundamentally disagree with the notion of attacking gates = fun. That’s kind of a silly argument. What’s fun about attacking a gate for 60 seconds to destroy it? I can say that their solution is a good solid attempt to find a way around playing attack the gate and towards playing the map.

With that being said, I still think this gamemode is a terrible idea. It will get back next to none of the original crowd that they are hoping to gather. This still poses the same problem that capture points did, it doesn’t promote cohesive teamfights – rather people all split up handling different tasks and maybe occasionally merging together to accomplish a push.

I will say this once more as I have many many times…
An RPG PvP NEEDS to be a completely teamfight focused play style where the combat revolves around prolonged full out XvX combat. Not small skirmishes.

i think the notion of fun gates fights is that like i said inmy OP that gates were indestructable in GvG, when the gates were closed ther wasno way of getting in, the team in the base turtled and the team outside waited.
which resulted in unessacry long GvG fights with NOTHING happening.
So the notion of eliminating THAT is understandable, however their execution is as this discussion proofs NOT what people wanted.

OH and i like to add another idea i came with since i pondered over the niton what moral boost ment in gvg:

You need supplies to rezz!
Simply because rezzing in GW2 meant that you had less health and less energy due to the moral debuff on you.
You don´t have moral in GW2.
And with the notion of defending the gate/s you also need to have enough supplies to rezz.
So if you don´t have the middle flag stand/ cow stables/ mc guffin you have a very limited supply recharge in which you either have to decide to rezz a teammeber OR deploy NPC to defend your base.
which would further increase the need to have a splitt.

ALSO

Stop asking for an exact replica of GvG. its not going to happen.

GW1 and GW2 are both fundamentally different.

i allready stated that i wanted to creat GvG 2.0 in gw2 with those ideas not an exact replica.
thats why i changed thing like the flag running accordingly to GW2 mechanics.

has no one else any ideas for this thread?