Guild Wars 2

I felt kinda obligated to make a video coming up with reasonable nerfs for bunker mesmer as I was the first to pretty much bring it into light after the expansion. For those of you who would rather not watch the video ill list everything I discussed in the video below instead to spare you the time if you don’t have it.

And as I said in the video, the main strength with chronomancer is the over abundance of alacrity, so it will be the majority of suggested nerfs.

1 – Chaotic Dampening – Reduced the duration of protection from 5 seconds to 2 or 2 1/2 seconds.

Reasoning- the reason for this nerf is because there is a ethereal field on every utility well, not to mention with null field, time warp, feedback & chaos storm. It makes stacking absurd amounts of protection too easy with phase retreat and illusionary leap. Not to mention easier to transfer to your allies via illusionary Inspiration.

2 – All’s Well That Ends Well – Reduced the duration of Alacrity from 2 seconds to 1 second.

3 – Well Of Recall – The amount of alacrity has been reduced from 5 seconds to 2 seconds. The chill duration has been increased from 1 second to 3 seconds. Increase the damage, hard to say how much however. Which means well of recall will be 3 seconds traited if my specific changes go through with the trait All’s Well That Ends Well.

4 – Improved Alacrity – Decrease the duration from 50% to 25%

5 – “You cannot capture buffs on temple or the orb on spirit watch while under the effects of blur”

6 – Rune of durability – Increase the cd on the #4 from 20 seconds to 40 seconds. And remove the 125 vitality on the #6 completely.

Edited for suggestions 7

7- Make alacrity into a boon, therefore it can be stripped, stolen, and corrupted. Make the corrupted version chill.

Reasoning – This is a big one, and a reasonable one at that. If #7 were to simply go through, then I would honestly be against all of the suggestions I previously stated to nerfing alacrity to the extent I previously stated if this were to go into effect.

Let me know what you guys think. Addressing alacrity as a whole is the best way to balance out chrono while not unjustly nerfing other lines.

Countless

Just have it you cannot be invincible on a point.

ArenaNet already made changes to problematic skills, change distortion from a evade to invulnerability and problem solved.

I remember when you could cap points while invisible.

I support all AoE skill adjustments. Plus runes of Durability are too strong. I have seen them on thieves and I run them on my zerker warrior. Any run set that is not power that enhances a zerker build that much is much worse on bunkers and should see adjustment.

Honestly, toughness, protection, resistance, and vitality in one rune set. gg

Remove their stealth abilities.

What about Bountiful Disillusionment’s stability?

So even before this bunking meta came up I have been playing a boonstripping based necro (and now a reaper but still focusing on taking down boons). For this reason, Revenants actually did not bother me so much, because their uptime relies heavily on holding up all the boons while not having too many conditions, which is exactly what I strive for (most builds either stack might and/or regen with protection in some way, removing boons constantly works surprisingly well).

But the mesmer is another story. It doesn’t matter how fast I can keep their protection down (and I do it very fast mind you) they bring it back almost instantly, and stacking. It’s like I didn’t press any button at all on my keyboard. Crazy stuff, and that’s not even to mention all the invulnerability they can pull up (3s each 30s if I recall? that’s flat out immortality for a reasonably skilled player). Of course, my build gets stompkittened by those elementalists immune to conditions, but I expect it to happen, and they can’t damage me either anyway, what I do not expect is all my attacks against mesmers to simply mean nothing, even if they actually “land right on target”.

Alekt.5803:

What about Bountiful Disillusionment’s stability?

With the solid nerf to alacrity you inadvertently nerf Bountiful Disillusionment without messing with the trait directly. Less alacrity means less shatters, less shatters means less stability uptime.

Countless

With a solid nerf to alacrity you remove mesmer from any and all PvE meta as well as making it almost meaningless.

I think it’s pretty clear this is a “How to delete Mesmer from Most game modes”. Head over to the mesmer forum and there’s already a thread on this exact topic.

Personally I think changing blur on precog to distortion so it doesn’t count to point cap as well as tuning Rev so the DH and reaper counters come into play more will solve the bunker mesmer problem.

I think the dumbest and most imbalanced part are the invuln/quickness rezzes/stomps. If they tone down the quickness on shatter, or replace it with sth. else, at least the mesmers would have to go into the chronomancer-runes for the quickness.

Also, the stability on the shatters lasts a bit long.

With the general bunker-power of the build I don’t really have a problem; at least it’s not completely invulnerable to a whole dmg-type like rev and tempest with perma-resistance or diamond skin: These are the things that can completely destroy tons of builds in the meta and I say that as a main-tempest player that is forced to use diamond skin even though I hate it (I hate getting destroyed by condi-revs more though, so I use it).

TL:DR
Less Stability on shatter and much less quickness or no quickness at all on shatter.

apharma.3741:

With a solid nerf to alacrity you remove mesmer from any and all PvE meta as well as making it almost meaningless.

I think it’s pretty clear this is a “How to delete Mesmer from Most game modes”. Head over to the mesmer forum and there’s already a thread on this exact topic.

Personally I think changing blur on precog to distortion so it doesn’t count to point cap as well as tuning Rev so the DH and reaper counters come into play more will solve the bunker mesmer problem.

Simply nerfing alacrity is removing mesmer from the pve meta? Your statement is over exaggerated. Stacking alacrity the way it is now is childs play, if you believe that mesmers can’t be viable in pve, pvp, or otherwise without perma alacrity then you are doing something wrong my friend.

Countless

Problem is not the wells or anything you listed here. Problem is the Runes/Amulets which combined can make mesmers an insane bunker. Same goes for condi revenants and others just in a different way. A “Well” mesmer would not last too long if it didnt have absurd amounts of toughness/vitality.

I do respect you as a mesmer player but you are looking for flaws in the class/build rather than the general game issues of amulet/rune combinations.

You nerf bunker mesmer – you are going to deal with bunker eles/druids and the story will be all over again. While dealing with 2 mesmers is worse than dealing with 2 druids/eles atm, it wont be any better if theres no mesmer.

~ Niekas

Niekas.3854:

Problem is not the wells or anything you listed here. Problem is the Runes/Amulets which combined can make mesmers an insane bunker. Same goes for condi revenants and others just in a different way. A “Well” mesmer would not last too long if it didnt have absurd amounts of toughness/vitality.

I do respect you as a mesmer player but you are looking for flaws in the class/build rather than the general game issues of amulet/rune combinations.

You nerf bunker mesmer – you are going to deal with bunker eles/druids and the story will be all over again. While dealing with 2 mesmers is worse than dealing with 2 druids/eles atm, it wont be any better if theres no mesmer.

~ Niekas

This is only a video/thread concerning mesmer. It doesn’t necessarily mean that I don’t stand by the belief that almost every single elite spec is in it’s own right broken compared to its non elite specializations. I’m also assuming that arena net will nerf the other elite specs along with chrono with the upcoming patch. However imo what I listed is the best way to deal with nerfing chrono back to a respectable level.

Countless

so you basically nerfing mesmer class and not the build

1 – Chaotic Dampening – Reduced the duration of protection from 5 seconds to 2 or 2 1/2 seconds. – no one will use it with so low protection up time . a better solution is the make every well unique field .and what about necro wells all drak field so lets nerf necro cause they can leach and blind bolt…..

2 – All’s Well That Ends Well – Reduced the duration of Alacrity from 2 seconds to 1 second. – remind you that shield has no trait which decrease duration. so you nerf the weapon set. and the whole chrono trait line concept

4 – Improved Alacrity – Decrease the duration from 50% to 25% – again doable nerf to the whole trait line . so from 2 sec to 1 sec and from 3 sec to 1.25 sec you do the math….

6 – Rune of durability – Increase the cd on the #4 from 20 seconds to 40 seconds. And remove the 125 vitality on the #6 completely. – the only problem is vitality mainly and not the 3 sec protection and regen

apharma.3741:

With a solid nerf to alacrity you remove mesmer from any and all PvE meta as well as making it almost meaningless.

I think it’s pretty clear this is a “How to delete Mesmer from Most game modes”. Head over to the mesmer forum and there’s already a thread on this exact topic.

Personally I think changing blur on precog to distortion so it doesn’t count to point cap as well as tuning Rev so the DH and reaper counters come into play more will solve the bunker mesmer problem.

I would like to point out that Chronomancer is necessary in Raids and can’t be replaced, because these seem to balanced around ridiculous quickness uptime. Chronomancer should be solid choice, but not to the point when without it you can hardly get past 2nd boss with rest of group playing godly.

let evasion not contribute to point capture

boom, chronomancers fixed.

The bunker mesmer needs a nerf and he will get one.

But this thread is a great reminder, that balancing is not easy:

5 – “You cannot capture buffs on temple or the orb on spirit watch while under the effects of blur”

You just made the mesmer completely useless trash tier. GJ.

My personal suggestion:

• Remove Sentinel Amulet.
• Nerf Durability Runes to only give +15% Boon Duration instead of +25%
• Adjust the uptime of Alacrity, that you have to pick either Alacrity on shatter or Alacrity on wells.

Doon.2364:

Remove their stealth abilities.

Which ones? Given a bunker would not use torch and choose Precog Well instead of Decoy, and Gravity Well instead of Mass invis…

How to nerf mesmers in 1 easy step:

1. Buff thieves and reinstate them to hard counter mesmer

I main a mesmer but dear god this needs to happen

Trigr.6481:

apharma.3741:

With a solid nerf to alacrity you remove mesmer from any and all PvE meta as well as making it almost meaningless.

I think it’s pretty clear this is a “How to delete Mesmer from Most game modes”. Head over to the mesmer forum and there’s already a thread on this exact topic.

Personally I think changing blur on precog to distortion so it doesn’t count to point cap as well as tuning Rev so the DH and reaper counters come into play more will solve the bunker mesmer problem.

Simply nerfing alacrity is removing mesmer from the pve meta? Your statement is over exaggerated. Stacking alacrity the way it is now is childs play, if you believe that mesmers can’t be viable in pve, pvp, or otherwise without perma alacrity then you are doing something wrong my friend.

Countless

Yes it is as mesmer dps while no longer in the “ranger frost spirit is better that a Mesmer” is still pretty poor compared to DH, warrior, Rev, ele, engy. Literally you bring a Mesmer for 2 things atm, alacrity and quickness.

Nerf alacrity as much as you suggest makes group alacrity about 6s which is laughably bad and not worth it. Quickness can be covered by running a couple of DH (usually already 1 or 2) with facet of nature.

Boom no need for mesmer and group DPS is better, enjoy doing something wrong my friend.

Teutos.8620:

The bunker mesmer needs a nerf and he will get one.

But this thread is a great reminder, that balancing is not easy:

5 – “You cannot capture buffs on temple or the orb on spirit watch while under the effects of blur”

You just made the mesmer completely useless trash tier. GJ.

My personal suggestion:

• Remove Sentinel Amulet.
• Nerf Durability Runes to only give +15% Boon Duration instead of +25%
• Adjust the uptime of Alacrity, that you have to pick either Alacrity on shatter or Alacrity on wells.

Your logic is impeccable, I’ll make this simple for you.

Key – Bold text means sarcasm.

I never knew that the sole purpose of chronomancer was to cap buffs under the effects of blur, everything else is unimportant, my mistake. Also after reading your “personal suggestions”, I’m under the impression that you never even played the class before. because if you did you would know that alacrity on shatter, aka “flow of time” is a minor passive so you don’t even have to trait for it. Next time you make a “suggestion”, make it a useful one.

Countless

Azukas.1426:

How to nerf mesmers in 1 easy step:

1. Buff thieves and reinstate them to hard counter mesmer

I main a mesmer but dear god this needs to happen

Ok so delete mesmer from the game, replace them with another bunker the thief can’t hard counter, thief becomes useless again and then what?

Trigr.6481:

apharma.3741:

With a solid nerf to alacrity you remove mesmer from any and all PvE meta as well as making it almost meaningless.

I think it’s pretty clear this is a “How to delete Mesmer from Most game modes”. Head over to the mesmer forum and there’s already a thread on this exact topic.

Personally I think changing blur on precog to distortion so it doesn’t count to point cap as well as tuning Rev so the DH and reaper counters come into play more will solve the bunker mesmer problem.

Simply nerfing alacrity is removing mesmer from the pve meta? Your statement is over exaggerated. Stacking alacrity the way it is now is childs play, if you believe that mesmers can’t be viable in pve, pvp, or otherwise without perma alacrity then you are doing something wrong my friend.

Countless

You clearly don’t PvE much countless; don’t try to theorycraft about things that you don’t know.

Mesmer dps is terrible. The one and only reason Mesmer is brought into raids is for its support capability. This is partly quickness, partly alacrity. Your suggestions are an enormous nerf to alacrity. This alacrity nerf would also impact the quickness uptime mesmer could produce.

With your ill-conceived changes would Mesmer still be viable in raids? Maybe, I’d have to run numbers and see. I suspect that you’d end up being better off with just another boring dps build though. Less hassle, less skill required, more reliable outcome.

Trigr.6481:

Teutos.8620:

The bunker mesmer needs a nerf and he will get one.

But this thread is a great reminder, that balancing is not easy:

5 – “You cannot capture buffs on temple or the orb on spirit watch while under the effects of blur”

You just made the mesmer completely useless trash tier. GJ.

My personal suggestion:

• Remove Sentinel Amulet.
• Nerf Durability Runes to only give +15% Boon Duration instead of +25%
• Adjust the uptime of Alacrity, that you have to pick either Alacrity on shatter or Alacrity on wells.

Your logic is impeccable, I’ll make this simple for you.

Key – Bold text means sarcasm.

I never knew that the sole purpose of chronomancer was to cap buffs under the effects of blur, everything else is unimportant, my mistake. Also after reading your “personal suggestions”, I’m under the impression that you never even played the class before. because if you did you would know that alacrity on shatter, aka “flow of time” is a minor passive so you don’t even have to trait for it. Next time you make a “suggestion”, make it a useful one.

Countless

Your condescension is unbecoming, especially when you’re completely wrong. The poster you’re responding to is clearly discussing the potential of having well alacrity and shatter alacrity become competing major traits to reduce maximum alacrity uptime.

If you weren’t so set on mindlessly bashing every comment that isn’t a pure reaffirmation of your obvious brilliance in posting, you might have noticed that. I apologize for providing the inconvenient fact that your presence here isn’t quite as divine as maybe was originally thought.

dank.3680:

Azukas.1426:

How to nerf mesmers in 1 easy step:

1. Buff thieves and reinstate them to hard counter mesmer

I main a mesmer but dear god this needs to happen

Ok so delete mesmer from the game, replace them with another bunker the thief can’t hard counter, thief becomes useless again and then what?

Yes for the good of the game i’ll change my main.

Trigr.6481:

Teutos.8620:

The bunker mesmer needs a nerf and he will get one.

But this thread is a great reminder, that balancing is not easy:

5 – “You cannot capture buffs on temple or the orb on spirit watch while under the effects of blur”

You just made the mesmer completely useless trash tier. GJ.

My personal suggestion:

• Remove Sentinel Amulet.
• Nerf Durability Runes to only give +15% Boon Duration instead of +25%
• Adjust the uptime of Alacrity, that you have to pick either Alacrity on shatter or Alacrity on wells.

Your logic is impeccable, I’ll make this simple for you.

Key – Bold text means sarcasm.

I never knew that the sole purpose of chronomancer was to cap buffs under the effects of blur, everything else is unimportant, my mistake. Also after reading your “personal suggestions”, I’m under the impression that you never even played the class before. because if you did you would know that alacrity on shatter, aka “flow of time” is a minor passive so you don’t even have to trait for it. Next time you make a “suggestion”, make it a useful one.

Countless

Not only that you are known as the bad example of the state of mesmer in NA, you also can’t read.

“Adjust you have to pick either Alacrity on shatter or Alacrity on wells.” just means, that you currently don’t have to choose, because Alacrity on shatter is a minor. THEREFORE ADJUST THAT, that you HAVE TO choose.

Maybe in NA there is a place for a bunker who will lose every captures point, but not on EU. Please give me a single example where a bunker is good even if the loses every contested point.

1. – I’d be okay with reducing Chaotic Dampening’s Protection provided Swiftness is removed from Chaos Armour’s procs. The CD reduction should probably get a buff however, the only reason it’s acceptable as it is is because the other effect is good.

2. – I agree with reducing AWTEW’s Alacrity to 1s but not for your reasons. I think Alacrity-sharing is too dependent on Wells and we need another Alacrity-sharing trait to even it out, possibly replacing Improved Alacrity (which, let’s be honest, is overkill). AWTEW will also need a second effect, say a bit of AoE healing on Well end.

3. – Well of Recall is fine. Don’t fix what ain’t broke. It’s meant to be an Alacrity-sharing Well and it has a substantial CD. Your suggestion will make Well of Recall barely better than Calamity for Alacrity-sharing.

4. – I’d like to see Improved Alacrity turned into a second Alacrity-sharing trait as I mentioned. Something like a percentage of Flow of Time is shared with allies.

5. – No opinion on preventing buff and orb capturing. Temple is one of the lesser ranked maps and Spirit Watch isn’t ranked at all. I personally don’t think it’s a huge deal (IIRC there are far worse problems with Spirit Watch) but whatever.

Im going to agree with countless here I think those are actually pretty good ideas for nerfing this bunker monster. Also kitten you countless for showing me AND THE PEOPLE that this was possible :P the first time I saw this build was actually with countless here very early days of xpac, short form of the story is he carried Ransack and I through a bunch of games, Ransack was too busy seeing green (rip his lungs) and I was kittening around on rev. All aboard the well train baby no skill is required.

Can we stop it with the circlejerking and indignant sputtering and actually discuss this like sensible people?

Fay.2357:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Every time I read a Countless thread, I just imagine a Ferrari at a stop light. And all these kids pull up in their turbo swapped Honda Civics like we going to beat you. And then Countless just go half throttle and put bus lengths on them.

The knowledge barrier be like that.

You clearly haven’t been in many countless threads then. He’s running roughly 50/50 on suggestions. Half the time it’s sensible stuff, and the other half of the time it’s so far off the deep end you’d swear it was two different people posting. This thread is an example of the latter.

I have known Countless for 3 years now and I have had many mesmer state discussions with him. I have seen first hand his knowledge and ability. And I know he knows what is very strong in the builds. He had the bunker mesmer build thought up back in HoT bw2 I believe, which ever event had the mesmer spec.

Regardless of whether or not it comes across in the thread, he knows some stuffs.

This is turning into a “my weiner is longer and floppier than yours” contest. Cue people digging through post histories to prove who did what first.

Just stop it.

Countless, from one mesmer main to another, I appreciate you want our class to be properly balanced, but I think some of these suggestions are too heavy handed.

PVP – A problem with nerfing some of these things is that sure, it may address issues with bunkers specifically but will potentially neuter many other non-bunker builds for mesmer. Outside of bunker, chrono builds are for the most part balanced and in some cases hard to keep up with the other elites.

I’m not sure alacrity is the issue. Some other small things could be shaved which might take care of the whole problem, such as a small nerf to shield block channel duration and/or less blur duration on precog well.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Fay.2357:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Every time I read a Countless thread, I just imagine a Ferrari at a stop light. And all these kids pull up in their turbo swapped Honda Civics like we going to beat you. And then Countless just go half throttle and put bus lengths on them.

The knowledge barrier be like that.

You clearly haven’t been in many countless threads then. He’s running roughly 50/50 on suggestions. Half the time it’s sensible stuff, and the other half of the time it’s so far off the deep end you’d swear it was two different people posting. This thread is an example of the latter.

I have known Countless for 3 years now and I have had many mesmer state discussions with him. I have seen first hand his knowledge and ability. And I know he knows what is very strong in the builds. He had the bunker mesmer build thought up back in HoT bw2 I believe, which ever event had the mesmer spec.

Regardless of whether or not it comes across in the thread, he knows some stuffs.

Bunker chrono popped into existence in BWE3: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Full-Bunker-Chrono/first#post5707579

Anyway, these suggestions would certainly reduce (read:neuter) the effectiveness of bunker chrono. Depending on who you ask, this is either a good or bad thing. The problem with these suggestions is that they were clearly made with an insanely myopic focus on chrono bunker in PvP, to the exclusion of all else. Other things these changes would do include:

• Remove Mesmer from the raid meta in PvE while simultaneously increasing the difficulty of the raids to monstrous levels.
• Drastically nerf the already questionable capabilities of Mesmer in WvW
• Nip in the bud any possibility of non-chronobunker Mesmer builds having any relevance in PvP

Mesmer would go back to being an afterthought of a class in every game mode if these were executed, and I’m quite honestly astonished that Countless has produced such an impressively bad set of changes for review.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Fay.2357:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Every time I read a Countless thread, I just imagine a Ferrari at a stop light. And all these kids pull up in their turbo swapped Honda Civics like we going to beat you. And then Countless just go half throttle and put bus lengths on them.

The knowledge barrier be like that.

You clearly haven’t been in many countless threads then. He’s running roughly 50/50 on suggestions. Half the time it’s sensible stuff, and the other half of the time it’s so far off the deep end you’d swear it was two different people posting. This thread is an example of the latter.

I have known Countless for 3 years now and I have had many mesmer state discussions with him. I have seen first hand his knowledge and ability. And I know he knows what is very strong in the builds. He had the bunker mesmer build thought up back in HoT bw2 I believe, which ever event had the mesmer spec.

Regardless of whether or not it comes across in the thread, he knows some stuffs.

I remember people saying how weak and worthless Tempests are. I was one of the first eles to figure out the sheer cheese that is bunker Tempests.

But we need to look at this problem objectively, should Mesmers be a class with a design to bunker? Thieves and mesmers are originally the assassin classes. This is important and can pin-point what to nerf.

After all, if you hurt the ability for mesmers to bunk you also hurt their ability to survive. Gotta be careful on what to touch.

NERF! BUNKER ELE AS WELL. Cuz it does the same.

The better change would be to make precog grant invuln so that it prevents those affected from contributing to cap point progression. The OP’s suggestions are poorly thought out because they will impact a lot of mesmer builds, like power shatter. They don’t actually target the unique problems that bunker mesmer presents.

All bunkers, including bunker mesmer, should be able to hold onto a point 1v1 or 1v2 long enough for backup to arrive (as every other bunker can). The problem with bunker mesmer right now is that it can hold the point solo nearly indefinitely against 1-2 players (depending on matchup and terrain).

Nerfing the bunker mesmer’s ability to contest a point while cycling through all of its defensive cooldowns is really the key to bringing the build down to a reasonable level. The build would still offer support to the team via timing boonshares and well drops, but would no longer be able to singlehandedly contest a point. This nerf would also be limited to bunker mesmer, which is the only chrono spec that really needs toning down in Conquest.

Nice video and suggestions, just curious though, I didn’t know blur was an evade, does it get countered by slick shoes?

Imo the biggest problem is the distortion well. It is inconsistent with other skills that grant invulnerability (obsidian flesh, protect me, ect) that PREVENT you from capturing or holding a point.
This well not only allows you to capture and hold a point while invulnerable, but it also makes 4 other team mates invulnerable as well.
Nerf it to where you and all allied players that are stood inside the well have the ‘prevent capture point contribution’ effect. This way there is a risk to dropping this well twice with split.

ResJudicator.7916:

The better change would be to make precog grant invuln so that it prevents those affected from contributing to cap point progression. The OP’s suggestions are poorly thought out because they will impact a lot of mesmer builds, like power shatter. They don’t actually target the unique problems that bunker mesmer presents.

All bunkers, including bunker mesmer, should be able to hold onto a point 1v1 or 1v2 long enough for backup to arrive (as every other bunker can). The problem with bunker mesmer right now is that it can hold the point solo nearly indefinitely against 1-2 players (depending on matchup and terrain).

Nerfing the bunker mesmer’s ability to contest a point while cycling through all of its defensive cooldowns is really the key to bringing the build down to a reasonable level. The build would still offer support to the team via timing boonshares and well drops, but would no longer be able to singlehandedly contest a point. This nerf would also be limited to bunker mesmer, which is the only chrono spec that really needs toning down in Conquest.

So the answer is to delete precog? Who would use an aoe cap giveaway utility…

Nova Stiker.8396:

ArenaNet already made changes to problematic skills, change distortion from a evade to invulnerability and problem solved.

This would be an indirect nerf to guardians. If you get tethered, you should be able to be punished with CC if your opponent successfully predicts you using sword #2 or that well. OP has the right idea: can not capture point while under the effects of blur.

Called it.

Next up on the chopping block, Mesmer.

dank.3680:

ResJudicator.7916:

The better change would be to make precog grant invuln so that it prevents those affected from contributing to cap point progression. The OP’s suggestions are poorly thought out because they will impact a lot of mesmer builds, like power shatter. They don’t actually target the unique problems that bunker mesmer presents.

All bunkers, including bunker mesmer, should be able to hold onto a point 1v1 or 1v2 long enough for backup to arrive (as every other bunker can). The problem with bunker mesmer right now is that it can hold the point solo nearly indefinitely against 1-2 players (depending on matchup and terrain).

Nerfing the bunker mesmer’s ability to contest a point while cycling through all of its defensive cooldowns is really the key to bringing the build down to a reasonable level. The build would still offer support to the team via timing boonshares and well drops, but would no longer be able to singlehandedly contest a point. This nerf would also be limited to bunker mesmer, which is the only chrono spec that really needs toning down in Conquest.

So the answer is to delete precog? Who would use an aoe cap giveaway utility…

Dank, it seems like you’ve only just started playing mesmer and are only familiar with the bunker build. Prior to just a few weeks ago, mesmers generally played a roaming role that did not revolve around contesting points. Precog would still be a very powerful defensive skill for that role.

Furthermore, even in the bunkering context, preventing precogged players from contesting a point just means that you’ll need to coordinate with your team to make sure someone else is still able to contest the point (which adds counterplay in that the other team can focus the players who are still contesting). This is no different from using shadow refuge, stealth gyro, or mass invis to save your teammates. They’re all powerful defensive skills that come with a tradeoff.

ResJudicator.7916:

dank.3680:

ResJudicator.7916:

The better change would be to make precog grant invuln so that it prevents those affected from contributing to cap point progression. The OP’s suggestions are poorly thought out because they will impact a lot of mesmer builds, like power shatter. They don’t actually target the unique problems that bunker mesmer presents.

All bunkers, including bunker mesmer, should be able to hold onto a point 1v1 or 1v2 long enough for backup to arrive (as every other bunker can). The problem with bunker mesmer right now is that it can hold the point solo nearly indefinitely against 1-2 players (depending on matchup and terrain).

Nerfing the bunker mesmer’s ability to contest a point while cycling through all of its defensive cooldowns is really the key to bringing the build down to a reasonable level. The build would still offer support to the team via timing boonshares and well drops, but would no longer be able to singlehandedly contest a point. This nerf would also be limited to bunker mesmer, which is the only chrono spec that really needs toning down in Conquest.

So the answer is to delete precog? Who would use an aoe cap giveaway utility…

Dank, it seems like you’ve only just started playing mesmer and are only familiar with the bunker build. Prior to just a few weeks ago, mesmers generally played a roaming role that did not revolve around contesting points. Precog would still be a very powerful defensive skill for that role.

Furthermore, even in the bunkering context, preventing precogged players from contesting a point just means that you’ll need to coordinate with your team to make sure someone else is still able to contest the point (which adds counterplay in that the other team can focus the players who are still contesting). This is no different from using shadow refuge, stealth gyro, or mass invis to save your teammates. They’re all powerful defensive skills that come with a tradeoff.

“You have played this character for 1,765 hours 30 minutes over the past 1,186 days. Across all characters, you have played for 6,752 hours 59 minutes over the past 1,201 days.”

I admit, I am pretty new to Mesmer. I happen to like that precog serves as a point -team bunkering tool. I find no issue with having bunkers in the game. However, I do think some things need toned down, including pre-cog, but I don’t want to see its base function change.

For the record, shatter mes is has and always will be my main <3 as well as burst thief.

dank.3680:

ResJudicator.7916:

dank.3680:

ResJudicator.7916:

The better change would be to make precog grant invuln so that it prevents those affected from contributing to cap point progression. The OP’s suggestions are poorly thought out because they will impact a lot of mesmer builds, like power shatter. They don’t actually target the unique problems that bunker mesmer presents.

All bunkers, including bunker mesmer, should be able to hold onto a point 1v1 or 1v2 long enough for backup to arrive (as every other bunker can). The problem with bunker mesmer right now is that it can hold the point solo nearly indefinitely against 1-2 players (depending on matchup and terrain).

Nerfing the bunker mesmer’s ability to contest a point while cycling through all of its defensive cooldowns is really the key to bringing the build down to a reasonable level. The build would still offer support to the team via timing boonshares and well drops, but would no longer be able to singlehandedly contest a point. This nerf would also be limited to bunker mesmer, which is the only chrono spec that really needs toning down in Conquest.

So the answer is to delete precog? Who would use an aoe cap giveaway utility…

Dank, it seems like you’ve only just started playing mesmer and are only familiar with the bunker build. Prior to just a few weeks ago, mesmers generally played a roaming role that did not revolve around contesting points. Precog would still be a very powerful defensive skill for that role.

Furthermore, even in the bunkering context, preventing precogged players from contesting a point just means that you’ll need to coordinate with your team to make sure someone else is still able to contest the point (which adds counterplay in that the other team can focus the players who are still contesting). This is no different from using shadow refuge, stealth gyro, or mass invis to save your teammates. They’re all powerful defensive skills that come with a tradeoff.

“You have played this character for 1,765 hours 30 minutes over the past 1,186 days. Across all characters, you have played for 6,752 hours 59 minutes over the past 1,201 days.”

I admit, I am pretty new to Mesmer. I happen to like that precog serves as a point -team bunkering tool. I find no issue with having bunkers in the game. However, I do think some things need toned down, including pre-cog, but I don’t want to see its base function change.

For the record, shatter mes is has and always will be my main <3 as well as burst thief.

Precog’s base function is to provide 3s of evade to those in its effect. That part wouldn’t change — it might even get slightly buffed if A.net changes it to grant invuln in order to prevent cap contribution.

Also, you’d still be able to use precog as a point-contesting tool, you’d just have to be more strategic about it. For example, if your teammate is getting focused, you can drop the precog so it lands on him but doesn’t affect you. That way, you protect him but are still contesting the point yourself. You and your teammate could then switch places if the enemy decides to focus you. People want more active play, this change would add that.

Trigr.6481:

1 – Chaotic Dampening – Reduced the duration of protection from 5 seconds to 2 or 2 1/2 seconds.

Strongly disagree, and in general I would avoid nerfing core-mesmer traits/skills which have never been OP in the first place. Chaotic dampening is only viable because of the protection. And regardless of how many ethereal field we have, we only have 2 leap finishers, on a 12s CD base. Nothing OP then to get 5s protection since this is not even enough to get perma protection.

2 – All’s Well That Ends Well – Reduced the duration of Alacrity from 2 seconds to 1 second.

3 – Well Of Recall – The amount of alacrity has been reduced from 5 seconds to 2 seconds. The chill duration has been increased from 1 second to 3 seconds. Increase the damage, hard to say how much however. Which means well of recall will be 3 seconds traited if my specific changes go through with the trait All’s Well That Ends Well.

4 – Improved Alacrity – Decrease the duration from 50% to 25%

In general, I would change alacrity from a buff to a boon to allow counterplay. Since it is now affected by boon duration, a slight shave on the duration can make sense, but I am not sure. I don’t think 2s alacrity on well is a big deal. 1s on the other hand makes the trait almost pointless. What is a big deal is alacrity on shatter in my opinion.

5 – “You cannot capture buffs on temple or the orb on spirit watch while under the effects of blur”

obvious change, but in general, the whole orb concept needs a full rebalancing because it creates massive unfairness.

6 – Rune of durability – Increase the cd on the #4 from 20 seconds to 40 seconds. And remove the 125 vitality on the #6 completely.

I somewhat disagree. Rune of durability is simply meant to be the defensive equivalent of rune of the pack. And we know rune of the pack is a strong rune. The only thing which makes this one better is that boon duration is clearly stronger than swiftness.

Let me know what you guys think. Addressing alacrity as a whole is the best way to balance out chrono while not unjustly nerfing other lines.

Globally I think this is the key. Alacrity is really what makes chronomancer an obvious upgrade over core mesmer. There is no build that alacrity does not improve. So getting so much of it just by shattering is over the top in my opinion.

I still think though that the shield block needs a small shave (1.75s instead of 2.25 at least).

ResJudicator.7916:

dank.3680:

ResJudicator.7916:

dank.3680:

ResJudicator.7916:

The better change would be to make precog grant invuln so that it prevents those affected from contributing to cap point progression. The OP’s suggestions are poorly thought out because they will impact a lot of mesmer builds, like power shatter. They don’t actually target the unique problems that bunker mesmer presents.

All bunkers, including bunker mesmer, should be able to hold onto a point 1v1 or 1v2 long enough for backup to arrive (as every other bunker can). The problem with bunker mesmer right now is that it can hold the point solo nearly indefinitely against 1-2 players (depending on matchup and terrain).

Nerfing the bunker mesmer’s ability to contest a point while cycling through all of its defensive cooldowns is really the key to bringing the build down to a reasonable level. The build would still offer support to the team via timing boonshares and well drops, but would no longer be able to singlehandedly contest a point. This nerf would also be limited to bunker mesmer, which is the only chrono spec that really needs toning down in Conquest.

So the answer is to delete precog? Who would use an aoe cap giveaway utility…

Dank, it seems like you’ve only just started playing mesmer and are only familiar with the bunker build. Prior to just a few weeks ago, mesmers generally played a roaming role that did not revolve around contesting points. Precog would still be a very powerful defensive skill for that role.

Furthermore, even in the bunkering context, preventing precogged players from contesting a point just means that you’ll need to coordinate with your team to make sure someone else is still able to contest the point (which adds counterplay in that the other team can focus the players who are still contesting). This is no different from using shadow refuge, stealth gyro, or mass invis to save your teammates. They’re all powerful defensive skills that come with a tradeoff.

“You have played this character for 1,765 hours 30 minutes over the past 1,186 days. Across all characters, you have played for 6,752 hours 59 minutes over the past 1,201 days.”

I admit, I am pretty new to Mesmer. I happen to like that precog serves as a point -team bunkering tool. I find no issue with having bunkers in the game. However, I do think some things need toned down, including pre-cog, but I don’t want to see its base function change.

For the record, shatter mes is has and always will be my main <3 as well as burst thief.

Precog’s base function is to provide 3s of evade to those in its effect. That part wouldn’t change — it might even get slightly buffed if A.net changes it to grant invuln in order to prevent cap contribution.

Also, you’d still be able to use precog as a point-contesting tool, you’d just have to be more strategic about it. For example, if your teammate is getting focused, you can drop the precog so it lands on him but doesn’t affect you. That way, you protect him but are still contesting the point yourself. You and your teammate could then switch places if the enemy decides to focus you. People want more active play, this change would add that.

Invuln is not the same as evade and I don’t feel like it’s much of an uprade when you consider “on evade traits”.

You have a point with the more strategic play but I feel like an increased CD could do the same thing without gutting the skill.

I agree it is overtuned currently and there are many factors that contribute to why. I would like a broader approached looked at for ways to balance without overnerfing like past experience.

Fay.2357:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Fay.2357:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Every time I read a Countless thread, I just imagine a Ferrari at a stop light. And all these kids pull up in their turbo swapped Honda Civics like we going to beat you. And then Countless just go half throttle and put bus lengths on them.

The knowledge barrier be like that.

You clearly haven’t been in many countless threads then. He’s running roughly 50/50 on suggestions. Half the time it’s sensible stuff, and the other half of the time it’s so far off the deep end you’d swear it was two different people posting. This thread is an example of the latter.

I have known Countless for 3 years now and I have had many mesmer state discussions with him. I have seen first hand his knowledge and ability. And I know he knows what is very strong in the builds. He had the bunker mesmer build thought up back in HoT bw2 I believe, which ever event had the mesmer spec.

Regardless of whether or not it comes across in the thread, he knows some stuffs.

Bunker chrono popped into existence in BWE3: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Full-Bunker-Chrono/first#post5707579

Anyway, these suggestions would certainly reduce (read:neuter) the effectiveness of bunker chrono. Depending on who you ask, this is either a good or bad thing. The problem with these suggestions is that they were clearly made with an insanely myopic focus on chrono bunker in PvP, to the exclusion of all else. Other things these changes would do include:

• Remove Mesmer from the raid meta in PvE while simultaneously increasing the difficulty of the raids to monstrous levels.
• Drastically nerf the already questionable capabilities of Mesmer in WvW
• Nip in the bud any possibility of non-chronobunker Mesmer builds having any relevance in PvP

Mesmer would go back to being an afterthought of a class in every game mode if these were executed, and I’m quite honestly astonished that Countless has produced such an impressively bad set of changes for review.

Actually I remember perusing his YouTube channel before any of the betas and he had shown a build idea for a bunker support build in between the June trait revamp and the first beta.

But the concept of creation is sort of lost here. Helseth would say he created bunker Mesmer because he was the first person to use it in an actual tournament, so it doesn’t really matter because helseth is the reason that everyone is flavor of the monthing this kitten, not you or countless because you just talked about it, but ultimately just sat there and played it at a casual level.

And if bunker mes was nerfed maybe the devs could look at giving shatter Mesmer some of its strengths back, like the mirror blade bounce for instance, since they’ve done similar things with necro scepter- added damage back to it after nerfs long ago since people stopped using it.

All this arguing over “I created this build first!” “NO I DID” is infantile. Can we just stop?

.

@Silverkey:

I think Chaotic Dampening’s Protection is over the top with the Chronomancer. All CDs are reduced by ~40%, Chaotic Dampening itself reduces Phase Retreat’s CD, you get a lot of boon duration bonus from Durability and Chaos (and maybe that amulet-with-the-name-I-can’t-remember) and Chaos Armour naturally has a 33% chance to proc Protection on hit. Combined you can definitely maintain permanent Protection AND share it with allies.

Like I said I’d be okay with nerfing or even removing (provided the trait gets something else) guaranteed Protection IF Swiftness is removed from the possible procs (returning Chaos Armour to 50% chance to proc Protection as it used to, long long ago before idiots ruined it with their misguided whining).

Actually i hate to deal with bunker mesmer but if you reduce alacrity shatter well etc you will kill the elite. This elite is to control the time if you want to beat one chrono just wait the good time and burst him;)
The chronomancer has to be toned down but just a little not so drasticly …
Its not because a profession shine and you hate it that the dev need to kill it.

The bunker chrono is really resistant but when you compare the survivability / damage ration is higer for the druid or the tempest actually.
With a druid you can run a full defensive stat and deal an incredible amount of damage with your pets. Same for tempest with overloads. But do you have to nerf them?

Fixing the bug that Anet can’t fix.

The utility on Chronomancer is a good thing, the thing that’s needing to go is how the highest utility class ever, gets the highest time to kill 1vX of anything, without any kiting involved.

The nerfs in my perfect world still allow Mesmer to support as insane as it does, but not be the most immovable object. Support over hardcore meat shield