Guild Wars 2

Since chill would be widespread now, can we have it so that it affects ALL classes?

It affects all classes.

Turamarth.3248:

It affects all classes.

It does not affect thieves weapon skills? Maybe revenant in the future too.

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

But ele’s do have twice as many skills to use, so unless they are using primarily 2 attunements only during chill duration, it doesn’t have much of an impact. But maybe I’m wrong here…

Hot Sauce.2867:

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

But ele’s do have twice as many skills to use, so unless they are using primarily 2 attunements only during chill duration, it doesn’t have much of an impact. But maybe I’m wrong here…

Chill is one of the worst conditions for ele, because:

1. It affects your movement speed, which is pretty bad for a class that has lower hp and armour and cannot really just eat all the damage
2. Ele cannot cleanse chill if he’s currently in a different attunement that doesn’t provide chill.
3. Ele moves through attunement the whole duration of a fight, chill will affect the cooldown of all attunements, hence ele might find himself to be stuck in one.
4. Ele has already long cooldowns to balance the access to more skills than usually.

So yes, ele is affected by chill the most.

Laraley.7695:

Hot Sauce.2867:

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

But ele’s do have twice as many skills to use, so unless they are using primarily 2 attunements only during chill duration, it doesn’t have much of an impact. But maybe I’m wrong here…

Chill is one of the worst conditions for ele, because:

1. It affects your movement speed, which is pretty bad for a class that has lower hp and armour and cannot really just eat all the damage
2. Ele cannot cleanse chill if he’s currently in a different attunement that doesn’t provide chill.
3. Ele moves through attunement the whole duration of a fight, chill will affect the cooldown of all attunements, hence ele might find himself to be stuck in one.
4. Ele has already long cooldowns to balance the access to more skills than usually.

So yes, ele is affected by chill the most.

1. Does not apply here because movement affects all classes, the same logic would imply a need of reduction in cripple and immob effects on low HP pool classes

2. If this is a problem then a) too susceptible to conditions and should avoid condi classes at all costs or b) may be wasting valuable condi cleanses

3. Ok time for some math.

If an ele is untraited (shorter cd/fresh air) for attunement recharge, and has absolutely no chill on and we assume constant attunement swapping, then the elementalist will have an average of 3.25 seconds in each attunement and for which 1.625 seconds the ele can’t swap attunements. This means that if the elementalist was chilled for 39 seconds straight with no cleanses or chaining a chill after a cleanse, then they must spend 9.75 seconds in each attunement in which 4.875 seconds the ele can’t swap. So if perma-chill were a viable build option, then I can see cause for concern.

However, if an elementalist leaves themselves in a position where they can be chilled for 39 seconds straight without cleansing it, then either 1) they need to rethink their build because there is an obvious condition susceptibility, 2) rethink their playstyle with the current build, i.e. avoid condi pressure or don’t fight a prolonged fight with a necro/engi, or 3) consider bringing some extra condi cleanse through a utility if you feel that you have all-da-chills-all-da-time.

4) I agree with this, but once again, for chill to be a problem with cooldowns, it has to be sustained chill application. Normally cooldowns are the least of your concern while chilled because you lose most of your mobiliy which is one of the best sources of surviving through peeling.

All of this to say, meh, I think chill is really mostly about movement hinderance with the added effect of slowing down recharge rates for the duration of the chill (because rates return to normal once chill is removed)

Hot Sauce.2867:

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

But ele’s do have twice as many skills to use, so unless they are using primarily 2 attunements only during chill duration, it doesn’t have much of an impact. But maybe I’m wrong here…

So? Ele is already balanced around that fact with long CD’s on many weapon-skills, low health and armor pools etc.

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

How about giving thieves two different initiative bars for every weapon set then?

Hot Sauce.2867:

Laraley.7695:

Hot Sauce.2867:

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

But ele’s do have twice as many skills to use, so unless they are using primarily 2 attunements only during chill duration, it doesn’t have much of an impact. But maybe I’m wrong here…

Chill is one of the worst conditions for ele, because:

1. It affects your movement speed, which is pretty bad for a class that has lower hp and armour and cannot really just eat all the damage
2. Ele cannot cleanse chill if he’s currently in a different attunement that doesn’t provide chill.
3. Ele moves through attunement the whole duration of a fight, chill will affect the cooldown of all attunements, hence ele might find himself to be stuck in one.
4. Ele has already long cooldowns to balance the access to more skills than usually.

So yes, ele is affected by chill the most.

1. Does not apply here because movement affects all classes, the same logic would imply a need of reduction in cripple and immob effects on low HP pool classes

2. If this is a problem then a) too susceptible to conditions and should avoid condi classes at all costs or b) may be wasting valuable condi cleanses

3. Ok time for some math.

If an ele is untraited (shorter cd/fresh air) for attunement recharge, and has absolutely no chill on and we assume constant attunement swapping, then the elementalist will have an average of 3.25 seconds in each attunement and for which 1.625 seconds the ele can’t swap attunements. This means that if the elementalist was chilled for 39 seconds straight with no cleanses or chaining a chill after a cleanse, then they must spend 9.75 seconds in each attunement in which 4.875 seconds the ele can’t swap. So if perma-chill were a viable build option, then I can see cause for concern.

However, if an elementalist leaves themselves in a position where they can be chilled for 39 seconds straight without cleansing it, then either 1) they need to rethink their build because there is an obvious condition susceptibility, 2) rethink their playstyle with the current build, i.e. avoid condi pressure or don’t fight a prolonged fight with a necro/engi, or 3) consider bringing some extra condi cleanse through a utility if you feel that you have all-da-chills-all-da-time.

4) I agree with this, but once again, for chill to be a problem with cooldowns, it has to be sustained chill application. Normally cooldowns are the least of your concern while chilled because you lose most of your mobiliy which is one of the best sources of surviving through peeling.

All of this to say, meh, I think chill is really mostly about movement hinderance with the added effect of slowing down recharge rates for the duration of the chill (because rates return to normal once chill is removed)

1. Ele has the lowest armour and hp, hence why it can’t take as many hits as a warrior for example. It has lots of healing, yes and can have access to protection, but that doesn’t change the fact that by default ele cannot facetank damage. Ele doesn’t have as many ways to get away as for example thief. There is a difference between having the lowest hp and having the lowest hp AND armour.

2. That is not true again, because ele has its condi removal in attunements. Obviously d/d ele has removal on catrips, too but those are long cd’s and I don’t think it’s great that the class will be forced into one utility type again.

3. Have you played ele? Most of the time you’ll have water and earth on cooldown during a fight, because you want to gain their benefits from those. You don’t want to spend lots time in water and earth, because the benefits activate on attuning to them, eventually dodging in them. Even if you have water on a few seconds cooldown and then get chilled, it can be pretty deadly.

It might not be such a problem for a d/d ele, but then again can ele really not have a different spec viable? It’s not okay it’s the only class that gets affected by chill so much. Everyone who plays it knows how difficult it can be to deal with chill and ele shouldn’t be forced to play certain stuff just to deal with one condition under a flawed design.

Laraley.7695:

1. Ele has the lowest armour and hp, hence why it can’t take as many hits as a warrior for example. It has lots of healing, yes and can have access to protection, but that doesn’t change the fact that by default ele cannot facetank damage. Ele doesn’t have as many ways to get away as for example thief. There is a difference between having the lowest hp and having the lowest hp AND armour.

2. That is not true again, because ele has its condi removal in attunements. Obviously d/d ele has removal on catrips, too but those are long cd’s and I don’t think it’s great that the class will be forced into one utility type again.

3. Have you played ele? Most of the time you’ll have water and earth on cooldown during a fight, because you want to gain their benefits from those. You don’t want to spend lots time in water and earth, because the benefits activate on attuning to them, eventually dodging in them. Even if you have water on a few seconds cooldown and then get chilled, it can be pretty deadly.

It might not be such a problem for a d/d ele, but then again can ele really not have a different spec viable? It’s not okay it’s the only class that gets affected by chill so much. Everyone who plays it knows how difficult it can be to deal with chill and ele shouldn’t be forced to play certain stuff just to deal with one condition under a flawed design.

1. I don’t deny what you are saying here, what I deny is that it is a valid reason to say chill needs to be nerfed on how it affects eles.

2. While I also don’t agree with anything forcing a class into a certain build, this still assumes that you have someone semi-dedicating the use of chill on you, or that they have a build that focuses on using chill. Which once again, most classes can’t keep chill sustained at all.

3. Yes, I have played ele. Yes those are on cd more than anything else, I was talking averages, and if you are chilled and lost just a bit of your cd speed then either auto-attack or leave/reposition yourself.

All of the points that you have brought up are technically correct, but are being exaggerated in their effectiveness/viability, imo. Mountain out of a Molehill sort of thing.

Hot Sauce.2867:

Laraley.7695:

1. Ele has the lowest armour and hp, hence why it can’t take as many hits as a warrior for example. It has lots of healing, yes and can have access to protection, but that doesn’t change the fact that by default ele cannot facetank damage. Ele doesn’t have as many ways to get away as for example thief. There is a difference between having the lowest hp and having the lowest hp AND armour.

2. That is not true again, because ele has its condi removal in attunements. Obviously d/d ele has removal on catrips, too but those are long cd’s and I don’t think it’s great that the class will be forced into one utility type again.

3. Have you played ele? Most of the time you’ll have water and earth on cooldown during a fight, because you want to gain their benefits from those. You don’t want to spend lots time in water and earth, because the benefits activate on attuning to them, eventually dodging in them. Even if you have water on a few seconds cooldown and then get chilled, it can be pretty deadly.

It might not be such a problem for a d/d ele, but then again can ele really not have a different spec viable? It’s not okay it’s the only class that gets affected by chill so much. Everyone who plays it knows how difficult it can be to deal with chill and ele shouldn’t be forced to play certain stuff just to deal with one condition under a flawed design.

1. I don’t deny what you are saying here, what I deny is that it is a valid reason to say chill needs to be nerfed on how it affects eles.

2. While I also don’t agree with anything forcing a class into a certain build, this still assumes that you have someone semi-dedicating the use of chill on you, or that they have a build that focuses on using chill. Which once again, most classes can’t keep chill sustained at all.

3. Yes, I have played ele. Yes those are on cd more than anything else, I was talking averages, and if you are chilled and lost just a bit of your cd speed then either auto-attack or leave/reposition yourself.

All of the points that you have brought up are technically correct, but are being exaggerated in their effectiveness/viability, imo. Mountain out of a Molehill sort of thing.

1. Never once I said it needs to be nerfed. I said ele should be affected as much as other classes, not more.

2. Thats true. However, with Reaper that will change. It seems to have lots procs, which will be difficult to avoid. Plus Chill of Death + traiting chill for damage seems a tad too strong.

3. It has nothing to do how to deal with chill. Again, ele shouldn’t be punished by chill more than other classes.

If you played ele a lot, you would know getting chilled can basically kill you.

StickerHappy.8052:

Turamarth.3248:

It affects all classes.

It does not affect thieves weapon skills? Maybe revenant in the future too.

you are welcome w/o pulling your hair out, to try to backstab someone while being crippled and chilled and enemy having swiftness….

Kolly.9872:

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Or how about ele is not the only class that has its weapon swap affected by chill?

It goes both ways, you know.

Yea sounds fair to me..

How about giving thieves two different initiative bars for every weapon set then?

this^^

Chill should influence thief initiative regeneration.

Phil.8901:

Chill should influence thief initiative regeneration.

then thieves should have 2 initative bars for each weapon set…

Cynz.9437:

Phil.8901:

Chill should influence thief initiative regeneration.

then thieves should have 2 initative bars for each weapon set…

^

Turk.5460:

Cynz.9437:

Phil.8901:

Chill should influence thief initiative regeneration.

then thieves should have 2 initative bars for each weapon set…

^

Why? Is it hard to just make a condition affect everyone the same?

You thieves always ask for compensation, even if its blatantly unfair.

You always defend your class with “Working as Intended”

I mean cmon, can’t you thieves engage in a more constructive rebuttals?

mmmm let’s see….. so i use bp+ hs to gain stealth, that is 9 ini gone… for some measy 3k backstab (that if i actually get behind target, not get killed in meanwhile by aoe and that bs actually crits)…. now i can’t use most of my spells anymore no matter what weapon set i switch to for a while….

what you basically suggest is: if let’s say necro is chilled then all his weapon spells (including ds, lich etc.) get put on CD no matter weither he used them or not yet

not to mention, that nowdays thanks to all that aoe spams, blocks, blinds, protection etc. the main dmg is already comming from AA… so yeah let’s apply chilling to ini so thieves are nothing but AA… oh wait, then you gonna cry even more about sigil procs~

why can’t you stop throwing tantrum over thieves claiming they are “unfair” and “op” w/o actual evidence and actually try to play one vs any decent team

and you know what the joke is? every single person i met QQing about thieves and that actually dared to try out one, cried 5 min later how hard that class is to play

yes, thief can be good in good hands, but risk vs reward is extremely high and even skill floor is anything but low…. so untill other classes have same correlation between risk and reward, it just absurd to cry for more nerfs for class that was nerfed every single patch for 2 years straight

oh and i forgot to mention… you don’t like thieves? bring guardian, they can be keyboardturner, clicker, don’t know what their spells do, playing game by drooling on keyboard and still win vs good thieves because hardcounter at it’s finest

Cynz.9437:

mmmm let’s see….. so i use bp+ hs to gain stealth, that is 9 ini gone… for some measy 3k backstab (that if i actually get behind target, not get killed in meanwhile by aoe and that bs actually crits)…. now i can’t use most of my spells anymore no matter what weapon set i switch to for a while….

what you basically suggest is: if let’s say necro is chilled then all his weapon spells (including ds, lich etc.) get put on CD no matter weither he used them or not yet

why can’t you stop throwing tantrum over thieves claiming they are “unfair” and “op” w/o actual evidence and actually try to play one vs any decent team

and you know what the joke is? every single person i met QQing about thieves and that actually had balls to try out one, cried 5 min later how hard that class is to play

That is why a majority are asking it to affect ini instead…? Then what? People asked for an alternative way then you thieves are asking for another compensation? 2 initiative bars? What?

Chill doesnt affect you, power block gm trait does not affect you. And tou still act that you guys have it worse?

For the record this not a whine thread or im not saying i have any difficulty fighting thieves, all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED, in one way or the other.

Heck, reapers are built around chill, and guess what? Thieves are not fully affected. What a joke.

Okay cynz how would you feel if mesmers are only affected by blind with half the potency? Summon phantasms, etc are not affected by blind?

StickerHappy.8052:

Turk.5460:

Cynz.9437:

Phil.8901:

Chill should influence thief initiative regeneration.

then thieves should have 2 initative bars for each weapon set…

^

Why? Is it hard to just make a condition affect everyone the same?
You thieves always ask for compensation, even if its blatantly unfair.
You always defend your class with “Working as Intended”
I mean cmon, can’t you thieves engage in a more constructive rebuttals?

Seriously? Lets say a Guardian is chilled, then uses all his primary weaponskills. They all get increased cooldowns, great. Now the Guardian swaps to his secondary weapon set – oh look! – they have another bar of skills they can use!

Do you understand now? No?

A Thief uses all of his initiative on 5 skills (using the weakest, least costly skills), then swaps to his secondary. Whaaaaaaat!? You mean he can’t immediately use those secondary skills, because he’s still waiting for initiative regen? Tha’s ignant.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

mmmm let’s see….. so i use bp+ hs to gain stealth, that is 9 ini gone… for some measy 3k backstab (that if i actually get behind target, not get killed in meanwhile by aoe and that bs actually crits)…. now i can’t use most of my spells anymore no matter what weapon set i switch to for a while….

what you basically suggest is: if let’s say necro is chilled then all his weapon spells (including ds, lich etc.) get put on CD no matter weither he used them or not yet

why can’t you stop throwing tantrum over thieves claiming they are “unfair” and “op” w/o actual evidence and actually try to play one vs any decent team

and you know what the joke is? every single person i met QQing about thieves and that actually had balls to try out one, cried 5 min later how hard that class is to play

That is why a majority are asking it to affect ini instead…? Then what? People asked for an alternative way then you thieves are asking for another compensation? 2 initiative bars? What?

Chill doesnt affect you, power block gm trait does not affect you. And tou still act that you guys have it worse?

For the record this not a whine thread or im not saying i have any difficulty fighting thieves, all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED, in one way or the other.

Heck, reapers are built around chill, and guess what? Thieves are not fully affected. What a joke.

Okay cynz how would you feel if mesmers are only affected by blind with half the potency? Summon phantasms, etc are not affected by blind?

1. chill doesn’t affect thieves? that is plain lie… it affects their utilities pretty fine
2. why the hell are you using power block in pvp?
3. blinds are not sole reason why mesmers have hard times vs thieves…. besides good mesmer can nuke a thief just as fast really…
4. chill mostly comes from necros, please tell me since when did necros need help vs thieves…

you ask chill to affect thieves same as other classes, but you don’t want thieves to have same mechanics as other classes….

oh and inb4 you say, yeah they should remove ini and make thieves weapons same as other classes gated by CD…. if they really did it then they would have to buff those spells by a lot, and i mean by A LOT and trust me you wouldn’t like it

Cynz.9437:

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

mmmm let’s see….. so i use bp+ hs to gain stealth, that is 9 ini gone… for some measy 3k backstab (that if i actually get behind target, not get killed in meanwhile by aoe and that bs actually crits)…. now i can’t use most of my spells anymore no matter what weapon set i switch to for a while….

what you basically suggest is: if let’s say necro is chilled then all his weapon spells (including ds, lich etc.) get put on CD no matter weither he used them or not yet

why can’t you stop throwing tantrum over thieves claiming they are “unfair” and “op” w/o actual evidence and actually try to play one vs any decent team

and you know what the joke is? every single person i met QQing about thieves and that actually had balls to try out one, cried 5 min later how hard that class is to play

That is why a majority are asking it to affect ini instead…? Then what? People asked for an alternative way then you thieves are asking for another compensation? 2 initiative bars? What?

Chill doesnt affect you, power block gm trait does not affect you. And tou still act that you guys have it worse?

For the record this not a whine thread or im not saying i have any difficulty fighting thieves, all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED, in one way or the other.

Heck, reapers are built around chill, and guess what? Thieves are not fully affected. What a joke.

Okay cynz how would you feel if mesmers are only affected by blind with half the potency? Summon phantasms, etc are not affected by blind?

1. chill doesn’t affect thieves? that is plain lie… it affects their utilities pretty fine
2. why the hell are you using power block in pvp?
3. blinds are not sole reason why mesmers have hard times vs thieves…. besides good mesmer can nuke a thief just as fast really…
4. chill mostly comes from necros, please tell me since when did necros need help vs thieves…

you ask chill to affect thieves same as other classes, but you don’t want thieves to have same mechanics as other classes….

oh and inb4 you say, yeah they should remove ini and make thieves weapons same as other classes gated by CD…. if they really did it then they would have to buff those spells by a lot, and i mean by A LOT and trust me you wouldn’t like it

Where did i say that i didnt want to change thieves mechanics?

Lie? It only affects half of you bar? Thats why i said Fully affected, scroll up to my post.

Power block in pvp? Yes you are right, barely anyone uses it, why? Because again you gus are not fully affected by it. Why would you slot a gm trait where someone s immune to it? Again nowhere in my post that said that i was using PB? Even if i wanted to, it will be half performing anyway?

And that mesmer argument, so why do thieves hard counter zerk mesmers? Blinds are the majority f it, why? Our phantasms go n 20 to 30 second cds if it fails to be casted, i know youre gonna tell me then get rid of the blinds first, okay i casted my phant, are you forgetting that you could also blind them?

Turk.5460:

StickerHappy.8052:

Turk.5460:

Cynz.9437:

Phil.8901:

Chill should influence thief initiative regeneration.

then thieves should have 2 initative bars for each weapon set…

^

Why? Is it hard to just make a condition affect everyone the same?
You thieves always ask for compensation, even if its blatantly unfair.
You always defend your class with “Working as Intended”
I mean cmon, can’t you thieves engage in a more constructive rebuttals?

Seriously? Lets say a Guardian is chilled, then uses all his primary weaponskills. They all get increased cooldowns, great. Now the Guardian swaps to his secondary weapon set – oh look! – they have another bar of skills they can use!

Do you understand now? No?

A Thief uses all of his initiative on 5 skills (using the weakest, least costly skills), then swaps to his secondary. Whaaaaaaat!? You mean he can’t immediately use those secondary skills, because he’s still waiting for initiative regen? Tha’s ignant.

Wow take a look at yourself man, such childish defense mechanisms, okay ill play with it, my heal is in a 5 sec cd, then i get chilled, that heal was supposed to be life or death for me, but it didnt get off cd in time, so you mean i cant use my heal because in waiting for it to go off cd longer? Tha’s ignant!

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

mmmm let’s see….. so i use bp+ hs to gain stealth, that is 9 ini gone… for some measy 3k backstab (that if i actually get behind target, not get killed in meanwhile by aoe and that bs actually crits)…. now i can’t use most of my spells anymore no matter what weapon set i switch to for a while….

what you basically suggest is: if let’s say necro is chilled then all his weapon spells (including ds, lich etc.) get put on CD no matter weither he used them or not yet

why can’t you stop throwing tantrum over thieves claiming they are “unfair” and “op” w/o actual evidence and actually try to play one vs any decent team

and you know what the joke is? every single person i met QQing about thieves and that actually had balls to try out one, cried 5 min later how hard that class is to play

That is why a majority are asking it to affect ini instead…? Then what? People asked for an alternative way then you thieves are asking for another compensation? 2 initiative bars? What?

Chill doesnt affect you, power block gm trait does not affect you. And tou still act that you guys have it worse?

For the record this not a whine thread or im not saying i have any difficulty fighting thieves, all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED, in one way or the other.

Heck, reapers are built around chill, and guess what? Thieves are not fully affected. What a joke.

Okay cynz how would you feel if mesmers are only affected by blind with half the potency? Summon phantasms, etc are not affected by blind?

1. chill doesn’t affect thieves? that is plain lie… it affects their utilities pretty fine
2. why the hell are you using power block in pvp?
3. blinds are not sole reason why mesmers have hard times vs thieves…. besides good mesmer can nuke a thief just as fast really…
4. chill mostly comes from necros, please tell me since when did necros need help vs thieves…

you ask chill to affect thieves same as other classes, but you don’t want thieves to have same mechanics as other classes….

oh and inb4 you say, yeah they should remove ini and make thieves weapons same as other classes gated by CD…. if they really did it then they would have to buff those spells by a lot, and i mean by A LOT and trust me you wouldn’t like it

Where did i say that i didnt want to change thieves mechanics?

Lie? It only affects half of you bar? Thats why i said Fully affected, scroll up to my post.

Power block in pvp? Yes you are right, barely anyone uses it, why? Because again you gus are not fully affected by it. Why would you slot a gm trait where someone s immune to it? Again nowhere in my post that said that i was using PB? Even if i wanted to, it will be half performing anyway?

So you want to change thief mechanics? How… let me hear your proposal besides asking for chill to affect ini thus deny second weapon set to thieves because of some unspeakable reason.

You think it doesn’t hurt thief when his shs, refuge, heal is on cd? Are you srs?

Power block is not used for many reasons, not just thieves. I can say literary the same thing about assassin’s equilibrium for example. Oh no, it is not used because of mesmers~~~~~

Cynz.9437:

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

mmmm let’s see….. so i use bp+ hs to gain stealth, that is 9 ini gone… for some measy 3k backstab (that if i actually get behind target, not get killed in meanwhile by aoe and that bs actually crits)…. now i can’t use most of my spells anymore no matter what weapon set i switch to for a while….

what you basically suggest is: if let’s say necro is chilled then all his weapon spells (including ds, lich etc.) get put on CD no matter weither he used them or not yet

why can’t you stop throwing tantrum over thieves claiming they are “unfair” and “op” w/o actual evidence and actually try to play one vs any decent team

and you know what the joke is? every single person i met QQing about thieves and that actually had balls to try out one, cried 5 min later how hard that class is to play

That is why a majority are asking it to affect ini instead…? Then what? People asked for an alternative way then you thieves are asking for another compensation? 2 initiative bars? What?

Chill doesnt affect you, power block gm trait does not affect you. And tou still act that you guys have it worse?

For the record this not a whine thread or im not saying i have any difficulty fighting thieves, all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED, in one way or the other.

Heck, reapers are built around chill, and guess what? Thieves are not fully affected. What a joke.

Okay cynz how would you feel if mesmers are only affected by blind with half the potency? Summon phantasms, etc are not affected by blind?

1. chill doesn’t affect thieves? that is plain lie… it affects their utilities pretty fine
2. why the hell are you using power block in pvp?
3. blinds are not sole reason why mesmers have hard times vs thieves…. besides good mesmer can nuke a thief just as fast really…
4. chill mostly comes from necros, please tell me since when did necros need help vs thieves…

you ask chill to affect thieves same as other classes, but you don’t want thieves to have same mechanics as other classes….

oh and inb4 you say, yeah they should remove ini and make thieves weapons same as other classes gated by CD…. if they really did it then they would have to buff those spells by a lot, and i mean by A LOT and trust me you wouldn’t like it

Where did i say that i didnt want to change thieves mechanics?

Lie? It only affects half of you bar? Thats why i said Fully affected, scroll up to my post.

Power block in pvp? Yes you are right, barely anyone uses it, why? Because again you gus are not fully affected by it. Why would you slot a gm trait where someone s immune to it? Again nowhere in my post that said that i was using PB? Even if i wanted to, it will be half performing anyway?

So you want to change thief mechanics? How… let me hear your proposal besides asking for chill to affect ini thus deny second weapon set to thieves because of some unspeakable reason.

You think it doesn’t hurt thief when his shs, refuge, heal is on cd? Are you srs?

Power block is not used for many reasons, not just thieves. I can say literary the same thing about assassin’s equilibrium for example. Oh no, it is not used because of mesmers~~~~~

What? Assasins equi not used bec of mesmers? You are comparing two different things, your gm trait has nothing to do with classes, no exclusion to be exact, now power block has one.

Dude this is such childish rebuttals you are making yourself look ignorant. Even if you ask other people around, youre talking bout two diff things.

Who is saying denying you guys a second weapon set!??? Are you seriously reading posts?

anyone who disagrees is childish/ignorant? mkay~

point is: power block is not used because there are better traits and not because of thieves… same reason why thieves don’t trait just to fight mesmers

and are you reading posts? people already explained you why chill on ini regen is denying second weapon set

since you play mesmer:
- necro puts chill on you
- you use sword 5 for example
- all your spells on all of your weapons go on long CD

that is basically what it would mean…if you don’t understand those mechanics then i honestly don’t know how to help you…

oh and btw that chill also reduces range on your attacks by 200% just to get the same feel

Cynz.9437:

anyone who disagress is childish/ignorant? mkay~

point is: power block is not used because there are better traits and not because of thieves… same reason why thieves don’t trait just to fight mesmers

and are you reading posts? people already explained you why chill on ini regen is denying second weapon set

since you play mesmer:
- necro puts chill on you
- you use sword 5 for example
- all your spells on all of your weapons go on long CD

that is basically what it would mean…if you don’t understand those mechanics then i honestly don’t know how to help you…

oh and btw that chill also reduces range on your attacks by 200% just to get the same feel

Did anyone already decide how much will chill affect your ini!? Seriously thieves are acting like drama queens again. Just the suggestion already drives you mad. Lol.

For powerblock again, yes you have a point, but for casual pvp, alot of mesmers i assure you will get that trait if was the same state when it was released with the exclusion of aas res and stomps. Did you see the outcry when it was nerfed/fixed?
Now again for my suggestion, i would suggest to have maybe -1 ini regen rate compared to no chill.

Also if you did get affected,are thieves not capable of using cleanses too?

PS. Dont be a hypocrite, you are so intent on toning down engies then you act kitten when it comes to your class? /facepalm

Hmmmm let’s see how it sounds: srsly mesmers are acting like drama queens again because chill doesn’t affect ini.

Let’s balance game around casual mesmers? If this was the case turret engis would be still the thing.

It doesn’t matter how chill affects ini, thieves already punish themself and denying themself other weapon skills by using ini… adding extra ini reduction is overkill.

Yeah, thieves are sooooo famous for their condi cleanse……………………………………………………………………………… oh wait.

Honestly though, if you think chill doesn’t affect thieves besides utilities…go make d/x thief, get chilled and try to backstab moving enemy. Oh with webcam plz. I will make sure to bring popcorn because i am sure it will be very entertaining.

How am hyprocrite? Engis are too strong atm. Try to convince me they are not. Are you really implying thieves are as strong as engis and need more nerfing? The sad part, even devs said in recent stream that if you cry about thieves right now, you are not playing one.

StickerHappy.8052:

Wow take a look at yourself man, such childish defense mechanisms, okay ill play with it, my heal is in a 5 sec cd, then i get chilled, that heal was supposed to be life or death for me, but it didnt get off cd in time, so you mean i cant use my heal because in waiting for it to go off cd longer? Tha’s ignant!

This made absolutely no sense and was not relevant in any way.

StickerHappy.8052:

Did anyone already decide how much will chill affect your ini!? Seriously thieves are acting like drama queens again. Just the suggestion already drives you mad. Lol.

StickerHappy:

all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED

Cynz.9437:

Hmmmm let’s see how it sounds: srsly mesmers are acting like drama queens again because chill doesn’t affect ini.

Let’s balance game around casual mesmers? If this was the case turret engis would be still the thing.

It doesn’t matter how chill affects ini, thieves already punish themself and denying themself other weapon skills by using ini… adding extra ini reduction is overkill.

Yeah, thieves are sooooo famous for their condi cleanse……………………………………………………………………………… oh wait.

Honestly though, if you think chill doesn’t affect thieves besides utilities…go make d/x thief, get chilled and try to backstab moving enemy. Oh with webcam plz. I will make sure to bring popcorn because i am sure it will be very entertaining.

How am hyprocrite? Engis are too strong atm. Try to convince me they are not. Are you really implying thieves are as strong as engis and need more nerfing? The sad part, even devs said in recent stream that if you cry about thieves right now, you are not playing one.

Are thieves not strong? You have always been part of the meta? Cmon, stop acting thieves have it worse than other classes, (Rangers, necros)

Just even -10% ini regen is pushing too much? lol.

Again I do get your point about utilities, no one is disputing that!

But lets compare it:

Chill affects other classes utilities? Yes! Chill affects other classes weapon skills? Yes!

Does chill affect thieves utilities? Yes! Does chill affect other classes weapon skills? No?

Yes you do have a different mechanic, Thats why I am suggesting for it to affect initiative regeneration rate!

You can’t even give a number for a compromise?

There is a difference when someone wants creative discussion and someone who just blatantly refuses to engage in one.

See that difference.

Why do you always make it look like I am whining? I am not, I never said I was having a hard time with thieves. I am suggesting a fair working condition for everyone else

Turk.5460:

StickerHappy.8052:

Did anyone already decide how much will chill affect your ini!? Seriously thieves are acting like drama queens again. Just the suggestion already drives you mad. Lol.

StickerHappy:

all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED

I am talking bout percentages? /facepalm.

Fully affected means = Affects weapon skills too.

Then We now talk about if it did affect your weapon skills, lets talk about percentages for a compromise?

Again this thief defense mechanism is hilarious!

But again you are failing to see that other classes have other weaponsets that they can immediately swap to and continue using up to 5 more weapon skills.

Thieves do not have that luxury, and adding a chill effect would not contribute to balance what-so-ever.

/facepalm all you want, you mentioned nothing of the sort in any of your above posts. Stop whining and read the obviously more articulate and logical posts.

Turk.5460:

But again you are failing to see that other classes have other weaponsets that they can immediately swap to and continue using up to 5 more weapon skills.

Thieves do not have that luxury, and adding a chill effect would not contribute to balance what-so-ever.

So why not make a constructive rebuttal? Like a different idea, instead of just “Nope Nope Nope, You can’t” mentality

StickerHappy.8052:

Turk.5460:

But again you are failing to see that other classes have other weaponsets that they can immediately swap to and continue using up to 5 more weapon skills.

Thieves do not have that luxury, and adding a chill effect would not contribute to balance what-so-ever.

So why not make a constructive rebuttal? Like a different idea, instead of just “Nope Nope Nope, You can’t” mentality

Because there is no reason for a different idea. Its working just the way it should be.

Please make a thief, document your adventures in PvP, then come back here and give us a detailed account on how sorry you are for making such uniformed assumptions and accusations of unfairness.

Turk.5460:

But again you are failing to see that other classes have other weaponsets that they can immediately swap to and continue using up to 5 more weapon skills.

Thieves do not have that luxury, and adding a chill effect would not contribute to balance what-so-ever.

/facepalm all you want, you mentioned nothing of the sort in any of your above posts. Stop whining and read the obviously more articulate and logical posts.

You never gave me a chance to mention something because of your defense kitten mechanism. Clearly you wouldn’t have any reason to engage in constructive talks, like most thieves in the forums.

When it has something to do with your class, you guys always “Gasp! a Threat!”

Turk.5460:

StickerHappy.8052:

Turk.5460:

But again you are failing to see that other classes have other weaponsets that they can immediately swap to and continue using up to 5 more weapon skills.

Thieves do not have that luxury, and adding a chill effect would not contribute to balance what-so-ever.

So why not make a constructive rebuttal? Like a different idea, instead of just “Nope Nope Nope, You can’t” mentality

Because there is no reason for a different idea. Its working just the way it should be.

Please make a thief, document your adventures in PvP, then come back here and give us a detailed account on how sorry you are for making such uniformed assumptions and accusations of unfairness.

This right here, is how you guys act. How can you guys engage in talks if you just approach it with a closed mind?

StickerHappy.8052:

This right here, is how you guys act. How can you guys engage in talks if you just approach it with a closed mind?

Closed mind…Oh, the Irony….
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

get nerfed every single patch for years while other classes collect points by drooling on keyboard and even you will get on defensive

Cynz.9437:

get nerfed every single patch for years while other classes collect points by drooling on keyboard and even you will get on defensive

Yet you are still in the meta? Wow, Imagine how other classes feel on top of getting nerfed!

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

get nerfed every single patch for years while other classes collect points by drooling on keyboard and even you will get on defensive

Yet you are still in the meta? Wow, Imagine how other classes feel on top of getting nerfed!

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

This is another thread where OP wants an “I win” button against thieves.

Since there is are no cooldowns on thief skills the only thing that would apply the effect to their skills is through initiative and it translates to a 300% increase in the universal cooldown. (.33 ini/sec)

So to make it fair, when a player uses a skill while chilled, the CD of the skill is tripled and the chilled CD of that skill is applied to all skills on both weaponsets.

This topic is over.

yolo swaggins.2570:

This is another thread where OP wants an “I win” button against thieves.

Since there is are no cooldowns on thief skills the only thing that would apply the effect to their skills is through initiative and it translates to a 300% increase in the universal cooldown. (.33 ini/sec)

So to make it fair, when a player uses a skill while chilled, the CD of the skill is tripled and the chilled CD of that skill is applied to all skills on both weaponsets.

This topic is over.

Let me guess you’re another thief. LOL.

I Did say we can make a compromise to just make -10% ini/sec, sooooo…

StickerHappy.8052:

Let me guess you’re another thief. LOL.

I Did say we can make a compromise to just make -10% ini/sec, sooooo…

Yeah…30 posts into the topic, only after you gained a little humility and realized your original and very adamant demand was ridiculous.

Turk.5460:

StickerHappy.8052:

Let me guess you’re another thief. LOL.

I Did say we can make a compromise to just make -10% ini/sec, sooooo…

Yeah…30 posts into the topic, only after you gained a little humility and realized your original and very adamant demand was ridiculous.

My original demand was the affect thieves via ini regen, the topic got so derailed because of you thieves acting defensively, Read my post to Cynz that I even told him I have even 10% is pushing too much?

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

get nerfed every single patch for years while other classes collect points by drooling on keyboard and even you will get on defensive

Yet you are still in the meta? Wow, Imagine how other classes feel on top of getting nerfed!

thieves are only in meta because of their moblity (and always were) and they are kind of getting pushed out by medi guards…. team fight wise or 1v1 they are anything but great

First of all, effectively it is more than 10%. Why nerf class that is not exactly over top atm?

oh and btw, once specializations will come out and everyone will run executioner/panic strike/SA, the QQ will be so great that thieves will get nerfed within a week… i promise you, so dw

StickerHappy.8052:

yolo swaggins.2570:

This is another thread where OP wants an “I win” button against thieves.

Since there is are no cooldowns on thief skills the only thing that would apply the effect to their skills is through initiative and it translates to a 300% increase in the universal cooldown. (.33 ini/sec)

So to make it fair, when a player uses a skill while chilled, the CD of the skill is tripled and the chilled CD of that skill is applied to all skills on both weaponsets.

This topic is over.

Let me guess you’re another thief. LOL.

I Did say we can make a compromise to just make -10% ini/sec, sooooo…

I would rather have experience in something and be accused of blindly defending it than being someone who knows nothing and is immune to that accusation.

And quite frankly that “compromise” is not going to stop you or anyone else from complaining later. So instead of humoring this, I am posting the reality of what chill would do to thief if it affected them fully by mirroring it back onto every other profession.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

mmmm let’s see….. so i use bp+ hs to gain stealth, that is 9 ini gone… for some measy 3k backstab (that if i actually get behind target, not get killed in meanwhile by aoe and that bs actually crits)…. now i can’t use most of my spells anymore no matter what weapon set i switch to for a while….

what you basically suggest is: if let’s say necro is chilled then all his weapon spells (including ds, lich etc.) get put on CD no matter weither he used them or not yet

why can’t you stop throwing tantrum over thieves claiming they are “unfair” and “op” w/o actual evidence and actually try to play one vs any decent team

and you know what the joke is? every single person i met QQing about thieves and that actually had balls to try out one, cried 5 min later how hard that class is to play

That is why a majority are asking it to affect ini instead…? Then what? People asked for an alternative way then you thieves are asking for another compensation? 2 initiative bars? What?

Chill doesnt affect you, power block gm trait does not affect you. And tou still act that you guys have it worse?

For the record this not a whine thread or im not saying i have any difficulty fighting thieves, all im asking is for the classes to be FULLY AFFECTED, in one way or the other.

Heck, reapers are built around chill, and guess what? Thieves are not fully affected. What a joke.

Okay cynz how would you feel if mesmers are only affected by blind with half the potency? Summon phantasms, etc are not affected by blind?

1. chill doesn’t affect thieves? that is plain lie… it affects their utilities pretty fine
2. why the hell are you using power block in pvp?
3. blinds are not sole reason why mesmers have hard times vs thieves…. besides good mesmer can nuke a thief just as fast really…
4. chill mostly comes from necros, please tell me since when did necros need help vs thieves…

you ask chill to affect thieves same as other classes, but you don’t want thieves to have same mechanics as other classes….

oh and inb4 you say, yeah they should remove ini and make thieves weapons same as other classes gated by CD…. if they really did it then they would have to buff those spells by a lot, and i mean by A LOT and trust me you wouldn’t like it

Where did i say that i didnt want to change thieves mechanics?

Lie? It only affects half of you bar? Thats why i said Fully affected, scroll up to my post.

Power block in pvp? Yes you are right, barely anyone uses it, why? Because again you gus are not fully affected by it. Why would you slot a gm trait where someone s immune to it? Again nowhere in my post that said that i was using PB? Even if i wanted to, it will be half performing anyway?

And that mesmer argument, so why do thieves hard counter zerk mesmers? Blinds are the majority f it, why? Our phantasms go n 20 to 30 second cds if it fails to be casted, i know youre gonna tell me then get rid of the blinds first, okay i casted my phant, are you forgetting that you could also blind them?

If you’d only ever played a thief once, you’d know that chill is already the worst condition on thief, it totally destroy their mobility, and low hp pool, zero block/invulnerability will do the rest.
My proposal on having 2 different initiative bars was meant to be just a provocation. I know it would make thieves somewhat unbalanced cos they use different mechanics, but if you ask for every class to work the same vs chill, than I ask for every class to work the same on weapon swappin, because thief at the moment is the only class that share cooldowns between different weapon set while others can always swap set and use all their skills once again.
And trust me: you don’t want thieves to have 2 ini bars both affected by chill. I can’t imagine the load of QQ on this forum if that ever happens

StickerHappy.8052:

Turk.5460:

StickerHappy.8052:

Turk.5460:

Cynz.9437:

Phil.8901:

Chill should influence thief initiative regeneration.

then thieves should have 2 initative bars for each weapon set…

^

Why? Is it hard to just make a condition affect everyone the same?
You thieves always ask for compensation, even if its blatantly unfair.
You always defend your class with “Working as Intended”
I mean cmon, can’t you thieves engage in a more constructive rebuttals?

Seriously? Lets say a Guardian is chilled, then uses all his primary weaponskills. They all get increased cooldowns, great. Now the Guardian swaps to his secondary weapon set – oh look! – they have another bar of skills they can use!

Do you understand now? No?

A Thief uses all of his initiative on 5 skills (using the weakest, least costly skills), then swaps to his secondary. Whaaaaaaat!? You mean he can’t immediately use those secondary skills, because he’s still waiting for initiative regen? Tha’s ignant.

Wow take a look at yourself man, such childish defense mechanisms, okay ill play with it, my heal is in a 5 sec cd, then i get chilled, that heal was supposed to be life or death for me, but it didnt get off cd in time, so you mean i cant use my heal because in waiting for it to go off cd longer? Tha’s ignant!

Thief’s heal is affected by chill. Who’s the ignorant here?