Guild Wars 2

I’vs read that a few times, but never the how/why

Because Tempest is OP, duh.

It didn’t. What forced DH out of the meta was condi Rev.

They have a lot of personal and group-wide projectile reflection and destruction as well as infinite 40-60% damage reduction (pending auras and earth traits), meaning that dragonhunter a don’t do enough damage to them and can even kill themselves with their own true shot.

Sunshine.5014:

It didn’t. What forced DH out of the meta was condi Rev.

Rofl, yeah, the real obvious answer to why you only had chrono bunk and bunk tempest is because Rev is op XD. Nobody else is allowed to play with Rev around :D

^^ No definitely not that is a non constructive comment. The real reason is that while the DH damage comes from traps, the main damage per second comes from the longbow. Because tempest has very available and easy access to magnetic aura. The reflect aura. The Guardian/Dragonhunter is rendered usless during the duration of the tempests reflect aura. Celestial elementalist has always countered Guardian but now it even renders the guardian usless against other team members too. Isn’t this just wonderful

Group magnetic aura = suicide if you attack with a ranged weapon. All those DH were 1-shotting themselves with their own arrows. Honestly, it’s for the better. DH punishes if you try to kill it due to sitting on traps and ranged DPS on DH is too high.

Sitting on top of your traps and mashing your weapon skills is even more brainless than the meta bunkers.

alright, thanks a bunch

Tempest pretty much kills any ranged projectile build that relies on projectiles to deal there heavier burst. So Power Rangers and DHers pretty much have to rely on really out of the way tactics to kill them. And it generally takes over a minute of baiting cooldowns waiting for the right sequence of stuff to go on cooldown before lining up a combination of skills to all go off at the exact same time so they cant just overload earth or water and lol at you.

When I fight tempests now Im mostly trying to decap them as apposed to killing them. Because it simply isn’t ognna happen unless the tempest makes a mistake. It also pretty much makes stronghold unplayable for me. Becuase one tempest can pretty much keep doorbreakers immune to ANYTHING in my skill set.

HoT is filled with waay too much projectile hate and way to much boon spam.

Wait what? How tempested forced DH out of the meta? It didn’t, it wasn’t tempest but demoniac revenant. Which forced, as well, reaper and tempest out (I’d argue the pro league was stubborn to bring tempest, only to die repeatedly, when scrapper fits way better in the meta).

Rely 100% on the longbow is very silly, can’t say the projectile reflect from earth attunement, which can happen every 24 seconds is the reason. The reason is the lack of sustain of the DH and guardians in general against a profession with high damage and condition at the same time.

azyume.6321:

Wait what? How tempested forced DH out of the meta? It didn’t, it wasn’t tempest but demoniac revenant. Which forced, as well, reaper and tempest out (I’d argue the pro league was stubborn to bring tempest, only to die repeatedly, when scrapper fits way better in the meta).

Rely 100% on the longbow is very silly, can’t say the projectile reflect from earth attunement, which can happen every 24 seconds is the reason. The reason is the lack of sustain of the DH and guardians in general against a profession with high damage and condition at the same time.

Err. I think your purposely leaving out the OTHER forms of projectile hate tempests have. Which I am sure you know about. There’s multiple sources of magnetic aura. One of the earth dagger skills. Swirling winds. When you look at it they actually have ALMOST complete coverage of projectile hate for the first 20ish seconds of a fight. Which is the duration most burst builds can stay relevant to a fight.

I feel like your trying to understate the issue here. But you really CAN’T deny they are a walking projectile hate fountain. Which is a hardcounter to certain builds and even entire weapons.

Was a big part of the DH getting pushed out malyx? Sure I can see that. But malyx revenants push ALOT of builds out of the meta. But even then their not the “whole issue”

And a malyx revenant doesnt prevent a dragonhunter or a ranger from hitting OTHER members of there party whenever they hit sword 3.

The biggest issue with tempest isn’t just their own personnel immunity to projectiles. Its that they do it for their entire team. Meaning they can take entire builds out of a PvP match just by BEING there. A malyx revenant doesn’t do that by a long shot.

It’s not just tempest, it’s current meta in general. Every match you have 1-2 tempest and bunker mesmers, both counters DH in a way that they provide reflects, block, invulns etc. If that wasn’t enough, every match used to have 1-2 condi revs and those just destroy DH’s. So it’s very DH unfriendly meta atm.

Besides Tempest’s projectile hate rendering the Longbow nearly useless, the meta DH also ran with the Sword (presumably for the teleport and general DPS), which has projectiles on the third step of the auto chain and the #3. Basically all of your DPS is gone with those abilities negated. As soon as anyone starts reflecting projectiles, the only things the meta DH build can do offensively are:

1) Cast unblockable projectiles, which should ignore reflect (Spear of Justice/Deflecting Shot)
2) Set Test of Faith, or Dragon’s Maw if they’re running it
3) Try to cast Hunter’s Ward
4) Cast Shield of Wrath on the Focus.

If the Sword auto chain didn’t cast projectiles (something Guardians have been asking for consistently through the past few years), then the DH would at least have a semi-functional weapon to use against builds with lots of projectile hate, but as it stands, a single aura from a Tempest can almost completely shut down a DH for the skill’s duration. Condi Rev is bad news for DH’s as well, but good teamplay could at least theoretically offset that. There’s nothing a DH’s team can do for them while wide-scale projectile hate is present, though, and there’s hardly anything a DH can do for their team either.

Tempest didn’t, it had it’s part, but it’s mostly due to bunker-mesmer, scrapper and condi-rev:

- both bunker-mes and rev have tons of stability; negates some of the best effects of DH
-bunker-mes, scrapper and rev have a lot of evades/blocks etc, some even handily triggering the Traps while they don’t do anything to them.
- both bunker-mes and rev have teleports, which negates many effects of the DH as well.
- DH relies on blocks to a certain extent to survive, some of them, like aegis and focus, are designed to counter few, but strong attacks, like thief: well, that doesn’t bother rev as the main dmg-dealer one bit.
- DH likes to stand somewhere safe and spam with his bow during teamfights: Rev is simply gonna jump on you.
- DH is unfavoured in 1v1’s against all the meta classes.
- tempest and scrapper have easy access to strong anti-projectile skills.
- Also, DH is kind of a “wombo-combo”, quickly downing stuff in teamfights to win it: But with all the above mentioned blocks/evades/reflects, it’s much harder. Then add to that the huge rezzing-potential of rev+mesmer and DH just runs out of steam too quickly.

Oh no, you don’t know ?
DH was pushed out of the entire game because you know, it’s so useless and bad, and easy to beat, and by the way nobody plays DH anymore.

It’s certainly not just out of the very very TOP meta games while still running rampant in 90% of the lower pvp’s meta with a ratio of 2-3 DH per team in any given game.
It doesn’t contribute to entirely shutting down thieves either, since there’s absolutely no one playing DH.
Oh and, listen to all those twitch professionnal (spectators) telling you how trash it is, all of them are obviously top end meta players, everybody knows how huge the top end pvp community is, they’re certainly not acting like pros because they read metabattle and look at a few abjured games and repeat what they heard like zombie parrots to look tough.
They farmin’ DHs all day long, even though nobody plays that horribad spec anyways.
Anyone in their right mind only plays rev/scrapper/mes/drood and the occasionnal tempest anyways, right ? DH certainly doesn’t contribute to how poor the build diversity has become.

Most of the time, we only have swirling winds for aoe reflect. The magnetic aura from earth 4 is technically speaking not considered an ‘actual’ aura and hence cant be shared. No one runs aftershock because we need eye of the storm for stunbreaks.

We might contribute to pushing DH out of the meta but tbh it’s the whole meta countering it. DH just cannot sustain itself well enough in team fights to contribute more than other classes. It’s mostly a low to mid tier pub stomp class.

ReaperJr.5967:

Most of the time, we only have swirling winds for aoe reflect. The magnetic aura from earth 4 is technically speaking not considered an ‘actual’ aura and hence cant be shared. No one runs aftershock because we need eye of the storm for stunbreaks.

We might contribute to pushing DH out of the meta but tbh it’s the whole meta countering it. DH just cannot sustain itself well enough in team fights to contribute more than other classes. It’s mostly a low to mid tier pub stomp class.

Actually, D/D Ele does way better against DH than D/F…. I used to go D/F when the opponent had DH’s, but D/F is just so bad. No self-sustain and all the reflects and stuff are more or less useless if the opponent isn’t mentally challenged. Yes, you can get a quicker kill against a DH with a nice reflect, but you would’ve won anyways 5 seconds later. :P

But that’s 1v1’s – DH is not a 1v1 build, so I think tempests really are the least of problems for DH in the current metagame.

Reflection+Prot uptime. Basically neuters dh burst.