Guild Wars 2

shagwell.1349:

Because everyone playing has a ping between 20ms and 40ms. After that it will be pretty hard to time.

High ping works both ways. The Thief is one of the classes most reliant on ping as when they are dodging an attack it has to be done now. They do not get blocks that last rhree seconds. The thief doing the dodging is as likely to have high ping.

When for whatever reasons my ping gets too high, I tend to shelf my thief and bring in a class that is more forgiving when it misses a dodge, such as a warrior or Necro.

babazhook.6805:

High ping works both ways. The Thief is one of the classes most reliant on ping as when they are dodging an attack it has to be done now. They do not get blocks that last rhree seconds. The thief doing the dodging is as likely to have high ping.

When for whatever reasons my ping gets too high, I tend to shelf my thief and bring in a class that is more forgiving when it misses a dodge, such as a warrior or Necro.

If you’re American, sure, I’m not American and I run a constant 250+

High ping is not a problem with the build in general, and not something Anet should balance around, that is a limitation on you and your decision to enter pvp game modes with this latency issue.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

High ping is not a problem with the build in general, and not something Anet should balance around, that is a limitation on you and your decision to enter pvp game modes with this latency issue.

If this is a response to me I’m not trying to make an excuse, just make the case against that specific point. Even with a high latency the abilities are usually easy to tell and you can internally pick to dodge/counter say, 200ms before the ability actually lands server-side.

You obviously never played warrior. With my ping on NA (about 150ms or on a bad day about 200) most of my skills e.g. Rush, Shield Bash or Blade Trail are impossible to hit a evade thief. These skill aren’t even reliable on EU servers were my pings are about 30ms.
It’s ok to miss when people dodge, but binding damage skills to high mobility and evade it’s a class design flaw.
Thief has by far too many evades, dodges and ports (partially) paired with high damage. The only option you actually have to play against thieves is bunker.

Again they shouldn’t balance around your bad internet connection…..

Reading comprehension is hard, I know.
They don’t have to. It even happens with a good internet connection. It’s mainly because of evade part of thief skills.

Rush: charges and deals damage – you still can be rooted, slowed and won’t evade while using it
most thief skills: charges or jumps, deals damage and has an evade on it.

That’s the main problem with evade builds and why should thieves get this advantage over any other class?

Outside of evades what sustain do thieves have? Lowest Hp pool, second lowest armor, weakest passive procs, every defense is based on active gameplay, next to know condi cleanse. No invulns, 1 block. The list goes on.

Now let’s Look at your warrior, you get Endure Pain which negates all physical damage, then you have it as a passive Proc, you have long channel blocks, powerful passive healing through Adrenal Health, Healing signet, You take fatal damage you get healed 5.2k, strong condie cleanse. On top of being able setup lock players to land the majority of your hits.

And you can break root/ immob with any movement skills i.e. Your shield 4 which is a pretty low CD.

So why should war have these advantages over other classes? Really your argument is pretty weak and yes I have played Warrior yes it’s a brain dead class I played it this season in ranked at diamond to get all of my class win achievements to finish up my Ascension. It’s a lot easier and forgiving to play than thief was……

Honestly while perma evade is super cheese and needs a fix, I think that otherwise thief does need it’s large array of evades. Without the evades, mobility and stealth resets a thief melts to any pressure at all. Stuff like those AOE ground effects that other classes can just walk through and not really think twice about can melt a thief with no evades left.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Immob them, also any Cc kills them, I run the regular D/p thief build and kill them easily.

Running a ping pong ball of death right now on an alt. Agree with the above, wait for them to blow some initiative and then hit them with some CC. Once you have the out of sequence they are more open, save your bigger hits till then.

People complaining about ping:

Ping is not a game or class design issue. That is a user and server location issue. If your ping is too low to play an action combat game effectively, it has nothing to do with the design of the combat, classes, builds, or skills, and everything to do with your internet connection and distance to the servers.

Petitioning for design changes because of ping is like petitioning for sports cars to have offroad suspensions as a standard feature. The game is not built to be played at absurdly high pings. If you have absurdly high ping, getting anet to get a cluster closer to you, or improving your connectivity to the server are the issues you should be worrying about.

If you are unable to do either, it isn’t a game design problem. It’s a physics and IT problem.

When discussing class or ability design it has to be done from a median expectation or the standard user. That means a player with two hands, at least one working eye, a rig capable of running at a respectable framerate, and a connection to the server that offers a decent ping.

Clearly nobody here can read. Ping isnt the problem. Being able to hit a thief who continually evades is.

XD

You know what’s worse than a spam evade thief? A thief who times his evades XD

Those dang timed dodges, must be hax they must be nerfed thieves must not have acces to any dodges. XD

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Those dang timed dodges, must be hax they must be nerfed thieves must not have acces to any dodges. XD

New thief elite spec: Pirate. Ties an anchor to the thief, setting your max endurance to zero. Give them shouts like “YAARRRRR.”

Onlysaneman.9612:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Those dang timed dodges, must be hax they must be nerfed thieves must not have acces to any dodges. XD

New thief elite spec: Pirate. Ties an anchor to the thief, setting your max endurance to zero. Give them shouts like “YAARRRRR.”

Elite summons a Parrot, that drops bombs in 600 radius around thief 10 sec Cd

I think what people fail to realize is that thieves still die. Evade is pretty much their only defense. They don’t have toughness, invulns, lots of blocks, damage reductions, lots of healing, and condi clear to protect them. Rather than having their health wittled down little by little like other classes, they avoid damage outright, then get a kittenunk of HP taken away.

Just because you aren’t hitting something, doesn’t mean something is flawed with design. It means that’s their form of defense. Considering timed evasions take more skill to use than pressing 1 button and getting invuln, or 50% damage reduction, or instant heal to full, or immunity to conditions, I’d say evades are fine.

Edit: To put it in better wording, it matters less how they die, because they still die. Your offense against them is different, just like it is with any other class. You don’t lay all of your condi burst on a condi necro at once- you’ll get condi transferred. Same thing here. You have to work around it.

+18k damage to a guardian from unload while stunned by basilisk venom.
And he/she still have all dodges/evades.
Not broken at all, other classes are just too weak.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

+18k damage to a guardian from unload while stunned by basilisk venom.
And he/she still have all dodges/evades.
Not broken at all, other classes are just too weak.

Don’t mention P/P to thieves. They get crazy.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

+18k damage to a guardian from unload while stunned by basilisk venom.
And he/she still have all dodges/evades.
Not broken at all, other classes are just too weak.

Don’t mention P/P to thieves. They get crazy.

Someone will say “but you can block and reflect” ..

shagwell.1349:

Someone will say “but you can block and reflect” ..

…Well, you can

Basilisk venom is a stun. Pretty much every guardian on the planet traits to give themselves stunbreak on f3. If a Guardian got in that position and had no recourse then they either got ganked or they’re playing extremely poorly.

yeah, and every class has a block or reflect on their build, right? That’s like saying “Conditions are fine, because Diamond Skin”.
Unload deals too much damage for a single skill that you can’t even LoS. If pvp was a 1v1, it could be ok, but that isn’t the case.

Lol people are saying p/p is op now?

At this point I’m not even gonna take this seriously. What a bad red herring.

alchemyst.2165:

Lol people are saying p/p is op now?

At this point I’m not even gonna take this seriously. What a bad red herring.

Who said op? It still needs a nerf.

shagwell.1349:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

+18k damage to a guardian from unload while stunned by basilisk venom.
And he/she still have all dodges/evades.
Not broken at all, other classes are just too weak.

Don’t mention P/P to thieves. They get crazy.

Someone will say “but you can block and reflect” ..

If you pop defiance stance it’ll heal you 20k hp instead.

May be not everyone has a reflect or block or invul but everyone does or should have a chance to counter react back. For me I would steal to them and interupt (asuming they are not sitting in smoke feild)

Sure, if you have enough vitality and toughness and you are not losing more then 60% of your hp in the burst, you may survive. How is that good gameplay?

P/P unload can be dodged just like any other attack. A thief using unload can not dodge as he unloads. In addition to that dodge which can be used to deal with unload there retal/block/invuln/reflect/blind/interrupts.

Added to that if the thief build to do that kind of damge of an unload, he likely has little armor or vitality of his own and will drop a lot quicker to one of your attacks.

I have ever seen only 3 types of thieves:
1) Perma-evade, perma-stealth or/and unload bursters, who kills you before you even react;
2) Lying thieves, who comes into forum to lie that thieves aren’t OP as hell;
3) Bad thieves who can be killed, if you are lucky.

shagwell.1349:

alchemyst.2165:

Lol people are saying p/p is op now?

At this point I’m not even gonna take this seriously. What a bad red herring.

Who said op? It still needs a nerf.

If you THINK it needs a nerf (nerfing p/p, that is just a hilarious thought), you’re implying its OP.

shagwell.1349:

Sure, if you have enough vitality and toughness and you are not losing more then 60% of your hp in the burst, you may survive. How is that good gameplay?

Git gud reaction time?

Regon Phoenix.8215:

I have ever seen only 3 types of thieves:
1) Perma-evade, perma-stealth or/and unload bursters, who kills you before you even react;
2) Lying thieves, who comes into forum to lie that thieves aren’t OP as hell;
3) Bad thieves who can be killed, if you are lucky.

1. Perma evade doesn’t exist, l2p. Perma stealth doesn’t exist and if it does it costs all of the thief’s resources, l2p. P/P as a whole is garbage, l2p.
2. Thieves aren’t OP ~ former thief main, now mains Revenant
3. Maybe you’d kill more thieves if you were gud.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

I have ever seen only 3 types of thieves:
1) Perma-evade, perma-stealth or/and unload bursters, who kills you before you even react;
2) Lying thieves, who comes into forum to lie that thieves aren’t OP as hell;
3) Bad thieves who can be killed, if you are lucky.

-Perma-anything doesn’t exist.
-Ganking is kind of what a thief is supposed to do. However, this is actually too counterable due to all of the passives in the game. Literally shut down their burst without doing anything. And if you don’t have passives, I would suggest getting better reaction time.
-Well, they aren’t OP, sorry. Method of defense using evades isn’t op. Video games are designed to make you feel satisfied when you hit something using visual queues, sounds, and effects. When you don’t hit that, you think something is wrong due to you being used to hitting things (except they’re negated by toughness, health, invulns, blocks, and other defenses, but let’s just pretend other defenses don’t exist just like everybody else). However, as I’ve stated before, thieves have a different way of dying. Exploit that. It’s not going to be handed to you with hard counters. Soft counters like good timing and predictability are key.

-If you’re dying to a bad thief I feel sorry for you.

Alchemyst has hit the nail on the head here really.

Before complaining that thieves are “litereally unkillable” and “dodge everything” I encourage you to go, on your main ranked account, not a pubstoming alt account that’s matchmaking with complete newbies, and roll one of the popular evade builds.

Fact is that thieves die a ton. They usually die in the space of 2 or 3 hits, and simply spamming dodge will get you killed, and will not kill anything.

What people are upset about is that they got used to the idea of thieves not being able to do anything other than +1 due to having literally zero defensive tools other than stealth. Now that people can see the thief during the fight, they’re upset that their old strategy of rolling their faces across the keyboard to kill visible thieves isn’t working, and that they have to learn the class’ strengths and weaknesses it fight it effectively just like they do with every other class.

Thieves survive through timing active mitigation tools without the benefit of any other hard defenses. This requires the thief’s opponent to engage those active, timing focued defenses with active, timing focused offense. Thieves do not benefit from noteworthy passive defenses, lengthy defensive channels, or defense enhancing boons. A thief that is not actively pressing a button to avoid an attack WILL take the full force of that attack, to a small HP pool, with no means of mitigating it.

The thief has to engage other classes on their terms, baiting and countering their best tools. This is no different. When you fight a thief you have to treat the fight differently than fighting another class because different classes have different patterns and methods of attack and defense

sry to hack this tread, main thing in pvp listen to all past threads and hope once Anet will reply ( anyway most of us play for fun, we don’t need that k’s of euro’s or dollars just fun in pvp)

BeepBoopBop.5403:

shagwell.1349:

alchemyst.2165:

Lol people are saying p/p is op now?

At this point I’m not even gonna take this seriously. What a bad red herring.

Who said op? It still needs a nerf.

If you THINK it needs a nerf (nerfing p/p, that is just a hilarious thought), you’re implying its OP.

shagwell.1349:

Sure, if you have enough vitality and toughness and you are not losing more then 60% of your hp in the burst, you may survive. How is that good gameplay?

Git gud reaction time?

Regon Phoenix.8215:

I have ever seen only 3 types of thieves:
1) Perma-evade, perma-stealth or/and unload bursters, who kills you before you even react;
2) Lying thieves, who comes into forum to lie that thieves aren’t OP as hell;
3) Bad thieves who can be killed, if you are lucky.

1. Perma evade doesn’t exist, l2p. Perma stealth doesn’t exist and if it does it costs all of the thief’s resources, l2p. P/P as a whole is garbage, l2p.
2. Thieves aren’t OP ~ former thief main, now mains Revenant
3. Maybe you’d kill more thieves if you were gud.

I smell s second-type thief.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

shagwell.1349:

alchemyst.2165:

Lol people are saying p/p is op now?

At this point I’m not even gonna take this seriously. What a bad red herring.

Who said op? It still needs a nerf.

If you THINK it needs a nerf (nerfing p/p, that is just a hilarious thought), you’re implying its OP.

shagwell.1349:

Sure, if you have enough vitality and toughness and you are not losing more then 60% of your hp in the burst, you may survive. How is that good gameplay?

Git gud reaction time?

Regon Phoenix.8215:

I have ever seen only 3 types of thieves:
1) Perma-evade, perma-stealth or/and unload bursters, who kills you before you even react;
2) Lying thieves, who comes into forum to lie that thieves aren’t OP as hell;
3) Bad thieves who can be killed, if you are lucky.

1. Perma evade doesn’t exist, l2p. Perma stealth doesn’t exist and if it does it costs all of the thief’s resources, l2p. P/P as a whole is garbage, l2p.
2. Thieves aren’t OP ~ former thief main, now mains Revenant
3. Maybe you’d kill more thieves if you were gud.

I smell s second-type thief.

I actually play 6 classes regularly. Thief being the second least used since HoT.

I smell a baddie stuck in emerald.