Guild Wars 2

I’ve played a good amount of PvP and I can effectively 1v1 most things (except Necros since they just dump my condi’s right back onto me, which is fine). But Daredevils… every time I fight one, it’s pretty much the same every time. They’re constantly dodging/vaulting dealing damage and being 95% invuln to anything and everything. I’d be okay with this if Vault didn’t do 33% of my HP in a fairly large AoE, too.

The only times I’ve ever beat a DD is when I’ve gotten stupid lucky with an CC’s timing, but intentionally trying to time a CC is effectively impossible (cast time, travel time, lag, etc. etc. etc.) that when it hits, the thief is almost invariably mid-dodge.

So… wat do?

Assuming you don’t necro but play condi you either play mesmer or warrior.

You shouldn’t have a problem vs thieves

Azukas.1426:

You shouldn’t have a problem vs thieves

Engie actually. And do not say play a different class or change to a different build.

Thieves are generally an easy fight to win against once you know what makes them weak or how they try to approach certain fights. Hopefully the wall of text I am aboust to lay out can help you (This is coming from a thief and engineer main who side plays all other classes):

First, let’s look at the thief’s playstyle:
Thieves generally have a hit and run type play when they fight. They want to avoid prolonged fights because their sustain is generally less than the other classes and their defenses can run out very quick if they get caught in a bad place. If in a duel, you can expect that most of their play will be stealth, burst, evade and damage a bit, then repeat. This can be frustrating to fight but it’s fairly easy to beat especially as an engineer. The amount of aoe that you have and, depending on your setup, the amount of healing you have can outlast any thief. The trick is hitting them when they are weak or making sure you keep yourself surrounded with aoe so they are forced to take damage in order to get any off.
The specifics of the fights depend on the build:
DA staff/dp
-This build is the worst about the hit and run process. It is a dueling specific build that uses bound and staff 3 to make sure it evades your damage while umping out it’s own. Then it’ll use d/p to stealth, backstabs, blind, and stick on you for a kill. Big weakness it has is the lack of condi removal and ways to effectively deal with immob. Your goal in the fight should be to immob or cc during the gaps in their evade frames and then hit them hard. Depending on the skill of the thief the fight can go on for very long periods of time but if you focus on keeping yourself alive and suppressing the thief’s actions you can prevail.

Staff/dp acro
This build is full cheese mode for damage dealers, it provides absolutely insane amounts of dodges and bigger sustain at the cost of burst. The pressure from these types of builds will be a great deal less so you can afford to be more restrained in using your burst when you catch them out because you have to drain their cd’s to win. You essentially follow the same process as with the other one just over a longer period of time and generally with better cd management as you have to be prepared for the long haul.

D/p sb-
This is the conquest meta, lacks the dueling capacity of builds with staff and bound but makes up for it with being near impossible to lock down due to it’s near invulnerability to immob and it’s insane mobility. Generally thieves in matches will try to avoid 1v1’s but when they happen you need to watch for their cc’s as an interrupt will cause you to take a pulmonary impact which will rip you apart very quick. Try to force them onto points and bomb them when they have no stealth or if you control the point then chase them off and stop them from resetting if you hit them during the fight. Don’t be too aggressive to start with, let them go for their burst but try to dodge it then counter attack to force them onto the defensive.

D/D acro condi-
This build is a dodge spam build meant to stack condis in ridiculous amounts and wear you down whle the thief sustains itself past all your damage. Their are gaps in their evade frames you have to anticipate with cc’s and then follow up with damage. The other big thing is to cover yourself with aoe’s to ensure that they can’t get near you without taking heavy damage.

Weaknesses the thief has:
Generally thieves are weak to condi because most of them do not run EA. It can be difficult to land condis on them however due to their high amount of evades and blinds. If you can land a condi burst on them and then cc them it’ll probably be gg. The glassiness of thieves can be very hard for them to deal with especially if you set up your aoe’s and bursts for when they do not have available escapes. Thief also runs a heal that has a small channel, if you can interrupt them then it’ll set their heal on full cd and cut off their healing and endurance gain making them vulnerable to your next attack or force them to leave the point.

Hope this was helpful, if you have more questions feel free to ask and I’ll help as best I can.

You hit it once.

Edit: or you slap them on the wrist and tell them to go back to chest farms and let the big boys do the fighting.

Bandits defense, cnd backstab and it’s over.

Ario.8964:

Staff/dp acro
This build is full cheese mode for damage dealers, it provides absolutely insane amounts of dodges and bigger sustain at the cost of burst. The pressure from these types of builds will be a great deal less so you can afford to be more restrained in using your burst when you catch them out because you have to drain their cd’s to win. You essentially follow the same process as with the other one just over a longer period of time and generally with better cd management as you have to be prepared for the long haul.

Pretty certain this is the one that kills me. The more traditional thieves, it’s not such an issue and I feel that I can prepare well enough. The issue with the dodging is that it deals 33% of my HP on Vault and I can’t hit with anything to actually put condis on (but when I do, they’re gone as you’ve said). I can’t really “outlast” them as getting hit by Vault does ~6k damage (1/3rd of my health). So I have to avoid taking their vaults, (which are fast, spammable, and 50% evasion), while trying to find an opening to land a CC or Condi burst, while also not leaving myself completely vulnerable by leaving myself without dodges, etc.

It just seems like there’s no reasonable way for me to defeat a Daredevil of similar skill.

Vault is a very risky skill for them to use and it’s very costly in terms of initiative spent. They can use it 3 times before they run out so I’d try counting their vaults so you have a general idea of what they are capable of. If you run hammer and toolkit then you have 2 blocks in addition to your dodges, plus possible blinds to all help mitigate that damage as well. I can’t give you every detail until I know what you’re running because it varies from build to build. Vaults in my experience are not all that fast and are generally avoidable if you anticipate the thief using it (the good thieves will set it up for if you are stunned or rooted so try saving blocks for those situations to alleviate some of that pain). The acro variation can be hard to cc because of their auto proc cc trait that also refills their endurance, bd, and shadowstep giving them 4 stunbreaks on top of insane dodging abilities. As for helping yourself to outlast them, make sure you are running a build that isn’t a pure damage dealer, you want to spec for a good deal of sustain for those types of fights. (Rapid regen with backpack regen alone can give you some solid hp regen if you are running a tools, alchemy, scrapper mix) Possibly try utilizing both egun and mortar kit to grant you regen fields and a blind field with some chill to help suppress the thief. Again I’m just throwing stuff out there until I know what you are running so I can give you specifics on how to approach the fight.

If it helps, this is approximately the build the thieves are running if they play acro staff:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaWn8lClOhFmCGOB8PhFqiaO77+xvLBCgDwLE+gSA-TpBFABiXGI+9HE4QA8wJAghjAAAPAAA

Ario that build is slightly wrong. Acro staff uses escapist’s absolution over pulmonary impact due to EA’s synergy with staff’s evade spam. The build also always uses air and fire on staff. Sigil of fire is essential for the staff to track foes in stealth. Also, dagger pistol is good for 1v1s but in arena fights, they are likely using shortbow instead. Dagger pistol only serves as a reset weapon set which is why some thieves opt to use pistol pistol to have a weapon set with a different option for offense. Impact strike is better than venom if you are going into an arena fight without using pulmonary impact. Venom is slightly better for 1v1s but without pulmonary impact, the advantage is almost negligible.

As for OP, acro trick daredevil thieves using staff are always open to attacks as long as you know when you hit them.
-At the end of vault (when they are coming down from vault)
Hit them here and it will count as an interrupt. The issue is that in the heat of a fight, it is difficult to tell if they are dodging or using vault. With daredevil runes, watch for a dodge followed by a vault. Thieves constantly do this to trigger DD runes’ 6th bonus and to hide the aftercast of dodge.

-After the swing of jump 3
Jump 3 delays the second action of staff 3 and enables the thief to evade twice with 4 initiative. The actual swing of jump 3 will be an evade but right after their swing they are open to an attack. This does not count as an interrupt as you are essentially hitting their aftercast.

-After the roll of staff 3
Again this is not an interrupt but this is a guaranteed hit.

-When the thief uses dodge, bandit’s defense to hide the aftercast of dodge, you can actually interrupt the cast of bandit’s defense to negate this commonly used combo
However, this is VERY DIFFICULT to hit and isn’t exactly a reliable way to hit a staff thief unless you practiced timing this. You have to hit them as they land their dodge to interrupt the cast of bandit’s defense.

A staff thief will constantly use dodge, steal or staff 2, steal. Knowing this, dodge when you see them dodge into a random direction. If you are lucky, you may be able to dodge their steal which translates into less evades for the staff thief. If you see them wind up their staff 2, dodge immediately to dodge the thief’s steal. For staff 2, steal to actually land all 3 hits, a thief has to wind up their staff 2 a bit which makes this combo telegraphed.

Watch out at 600 range as a thief will engage with staff 4 and use the time you are blinded to land in as many auto attacks as they can. If you are blinded, remove it immediately with condi cleanse or an attack.

Watch out for a thief’s staff auto number 3 as it will hit hard and reflect projectiles. A staff thief will occasionally stow weapons to save the third autoattack of staff to either hit you hard or reflect any projectiles you are using. A staff thief mainly inflicts damage not with evades but rather with staff autoattack when they are confident you won’t use anything dangerous on them.

If you are using a condition damage build, land a ton of condis on them and don’t attack them. Acro staff relies on EA to remove condis. Other than double shadowstep, they have no reliable way to remove conditions (sigil of agility only removes 1). Don’t give them an option to evade anything after landing a lot of conditions. This will work especially well if you are using a corrupt necromancer.

Jump onto places that can not be teleported onto and range the staff thief if you are forced into a 1v1 with them.

Doctor.1905:

Ario that build is slightly wrong. Acro staff uses escapist’s absolution over pulmonary impact due to EA’s synergy with staff’s evade spam. The build also always uses air and fire on staff. Sigil of fire is essential for the staff to track foes in stealth. Also, dagger pistol is good for 1v1s but in arena fights, they are likely using shortbow instead. Dagger pistol only serves as a reset weapon set which is why some thieves opt to use pistol pistol to have a weapon set with a different option for offense. Impact strike is better than venom if you are going into an arena fight without using pulmonary impact. Venom is slightly better for 1v1s but without pulmonary impact, the advantage is almost negligible.

As for OP, acro trick daredevil thieves using staff are always open to attacks as long as you know when you hit them.
-At the end of vault (when they are coming down from vault)
Hit them here and it will count as an interrupt. The issue is that in the heat of a fight, it is difficult to tell if they are dodging or using vault. With daredevil runes, watch for a dodge followed by a vault. Thieves constantly do this to trigger DD runes’ 6th bonus and to hide the aftercast of dodge.

-After the swing of jump 3
Jump 3 delays the second action of staff 3 and enables the thief to evade twice with 4 initiative. The actual swing of jump 3 will be an evade but right after their swing they are open to an attack. This does not count as an interrupt as you are essentially hitting their aftercast.

-After the roll of staff 3
Again this is not an interrupt but this is a guaranteed hit.

-When the thief uses dodge, bandit’s defense to hide the aftercast of dodge, you can actually interrupt the cast of bandit’s defense to negate this commonly used combo
However, this is VERY DIFFICULT to hit and isn’t exactly a reliable way to hit a staff thief unless you practiced timing this. You have to hit them as they land their dodge to interrupt the cast of bandit’s defense.

A staff thief will constantly use dodge, steal or staff 2, steal. Knowing this, dodge when you see them dodge into a random direction. If you are lucky, you may be able to dodge their steal which translates into less evades for the staff thief. If you see them wind up their staff 2, dodge immediately to dodge the thief’s steal. For staff 2, steal to actually land all 3 hits, a thief has to wind up their staff 2 a bit which makes this combo telegraphed.

Watch out at 600 range as a thief will engage with staff 4 and use the time you are blinded to land in as many auto attacks as they can. If you are blinded, remove it immediately with condi cleanse or an attack.

Watch out for a thief’s staff auto number 3 as it will hit hard and reflect projectiles. A staff thief will occasionally stow weapons to save the third autoattack of staff to either hit you hard or reflect any projectiles you are using. A staff thief mainly inflicts damage not with evades but rather with staff autoattack when they are confident you won’t use anything dangerous on them.

If you are using a condition damage build, land a ton of condis on them and don’t attack them. Acro staff relies on EA to remove condis. Other than double shadowstep, they have no reliable way to remove conditions (sigil of agility only removes 1). Don’t give them an option to evade anything after landing a lot of conditions. This will work especially well if you are using a corrupt necromancer.

Jump onto places that can not be teleported onto and range the staff thief if you are forced into a 1v1 with them.

I said approximately for that very reason. I don’t have the build 100% memorized yet so i gave a rough setup. The EA vs pulm is a choice that varies from thief to thief. Some opt to use it for damage if they don’t think they need the condi clear for their specific matchup. Venom and Impact are also up to the user. I’ve seen people run venom without pulm and with it and I’ve seen people using impact with and without pulm. It all comes down to how they want to play their build.

Also would like to point out that i did say this is a dueling build so i meant it is not used in matches. If that wasn’t clear then my bad but I definitely mentioned that it is a dueling build. I also pointed out that D/p sb is the conquest meta so yeah I covered most of the stuff you said outside of fixing the mistakes i had with the build (which I will edit out after i post this so that others can see the right build).

thief is very weak in pvp duels.
Not because they dont stand a chance. It is because they can not stand on point while dueling effectivli losing point. Even if they win, it usually takes a long time so it is not worth it. Point was ticking for enemy for 2 min.
Also rangers, guards and mesmers are autowin vs thief.

In addition to being weak duelist, thief is also bad in teamfights. All of this makes thief very weak in pvp. Better switch to something else.

with condi engi if you use rabid you can manage them in 1 vs 1 . Usually i put down box of nails and then i dodge or use ft for blinding. the idea is to avoid first attack ( block on toolkit is good too ) and then condispam them . It is not an impossible matchup with condi engi ( condi necro , condi warriors and some rangers /mesmer are much harder to fight 1 vs1 imho ) . After you spam of condition a thief he will reset the fight, he will clean condi and he will come back immediatly. Usually so , for killing a staff thief, you need 2 fights , one is not enought with a condi build

auto attack him once or twice he will run away XD

You are in Pvp so do as has been proven to work in high level play just ignore them and profit…

But is all seriousness they have glaring flaws that most classes can take advantage of being highly telegraphed skills in regards to Staff with Punish Frames, very weak passive defenses, are very weak to area denial/Aoe skills, and most Hard Ccs will mean the death of the Thief. It will take practice also play the thief build you are having problems with it will show you the flaws

1. Don’t overreact to Bound.
2. Catch them at the end of their evade frames on Vault.
3. After you condi-bomb them, stop attacking. They’ll have to condi-cleanse with shadow return. Now time and use your cc.
4. Watch them disengage.
5. Prepare to die as you’re now out of defensive cd’s and they’re coming back from resetting.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

auto attack him once or twice he will run away XD

Except he/she’s “invulnerable” about 60% of the time. So 1 attack ain’t going to do bumpkiss.