How is pistol whip op?
its one button for a stun, an evade and huge damage, with 0 cooldown.
it might not be OP at the top tier pvp, but for everyday players its a one-button-for-everything skill that is obviously going to get abused.
From the other thread : http://www.twitch.tv/blu42/c/3791781
That shows how powerful it is.
PW is decent, what makes it OP are the amount of shadowsteps which are negating the downside of pistol whipping, being rooted in place. most of them dont require LoS, or a cast time means that they have little to no actual counterplay.
Pistol Whip is not the problem it is initiative regen that is kind of stupid. It makes it so bad players can actually play class effectively.
Lil Apt
L2P deeez nutz
L2P deeez nutz
Ther other guy is also playing PW.
Community is so funny. I remember at release everybody was crying because of the powerful damage of PW, it got nerfed something like 20%.
Then community was crying because of haste. Haste got nerfed. After that, PW was underestimate because it was hard to land a proper stun with full damage without haste, like all other weapons set, it got advantage and deficit. Now, just because some top tier thief are playing it, people are crying.
As far as i remember, it was exactly the same thing with hambow warrior, the first few month/week, only a couple of people were playing the hambow spec in a “competitive way”. Only when it was mainstream, people where starting to starting to complain about it.
My question is : should it really be nerfed or it’s just because it’s kinda mainstream now to play PW that people think it should be nerfed ?
doesn’t that make sense?
ofcourse there won’t be nerf threads when something is’nt well known,
because very few people encounter it!
but when something like hambow and PW builds are all over the place you can’t help but notice them.
hotjoin right now is a steaming, disgraceful pile of meta.
a glorious display of low skill, high reward builds.
I’ve been playing PW since beta. The skill had quite some nerfs related to it.
- Damage reduction
- Haste reduction
- Sigil of paralization (it was broken, now fixed and is 100% useless on this build now)
- Infiltrators return -> Shadow return (most popular nerf)
Some say PW got a buff by removing the aftercast of the first part of the skill. But that was actually broken. So it was a fix. The initiative gain will make PW more spammable, but spamming PW will not be in the thiefs favor. Unless its the last thing he can do in a 1vx to keep him alive.
It might seem like a powerfull attack. But essencially you are being punished by standing in PW. So standing in it for the full duration due to having no stunbreak/no dodge/being immobilized, makes it very powerfull. But even without a stunbreak or dodge, you can walk straight out of it, as the stun duration is minimal.
Players spam PW combined with steal and the teleport signet. But if they spam it like that, will make them even more predictable.
*My advice on killing PW thieves: *
1) If thief pops Basilisc venom:
- Block/dodge if you see the slightest animation.
His first hit in this case will be the worst, as it will probably trigger a critical sigil aswell.
2) If you are then struck by the PW stun or inf strike for the first time, (he might have a shadowstep) he will either use shadowstep or inf strike (so no instant PW). Walk out of PW and:
- Stun thief right after PW animation
- Immobilize thief right after PW and walk next to him to make immobilize cancel his next PW
- Dodge (the stun so you can kite all his damage and lock him at his position)
- Block
3) If you get more breathing space at this point, you should:
- Put AoE at your feet
- Move while facing the thief
- Set up a spike or be ready to strike him down
4) If the thief is still on top of you, or on top of you again:
- Kill thief
(edited by Menzies The Heretic.3415)
I’ve been playing PW since beta. The skill had quite some nerfs related to it.
- Damage reduction
- Haste reduction
- Sigil of paralization (it was broken, now fixed and is 100% useless on this build now)
- Infiltrators return -> Shadow return (most popular nerf)
Some say PW got a buff by removing the aftercast of the first part of the skill. But that was actually broken. So it was a fix. The initiative gain will make PW more spammable, but spamming PW will not be in the thiefs favor. Unless its the last thing he can do in a 1vx to keep him alive.
It might seem like a powerfull attack. But essencially you are being punished by standing in PW. So standing in it for the full duration due to having no stunbreak/no dodge/being immobilized, makes it very powerfull. But even without a stunbreak or dodge, you can walk straight out of it, as the stun duration is minimal.
Players spam PW combined with steal and the teleport signet. But if they spam it like that, will make them even more predictable.
*My advice on killing PW thieves: *
1) If thief pops Basilisc venom:
- Block/dodge if you see the slightest animation.
His first hit in this case will be the worst, as it will probably trigger a critical sigil aswell.2) If you are then struck by the PW stun or inf strike for the first time, (he might have a shadowstep) he will either use shadowstep or inf strike (so no instant PW). Walk out of PW and:
- Stun thief right after PW animation
- Immobilize thief right after PW and walk next to him to make immobilize cancel his next PW
- Dodge (the stun so you can kite all his damage and lock him at his position)
- Block
3) If you get more breathing space at this point, you should:
- Put AoE at your feet
- Move while facing the thief
- Set up a spike or be ready to strike him down
4) If the thief is still on top of you, or on top of you again:
- Kill thief
you know that the thief is using PW+IS+IR so he is immune to damage or out of sight?
If there would be a time window where you could hit the thief after PW = No problem and no OP threads.
(edited by Lupanic.6502)
How is pistol whip op, if thiefs at the top just use skill 2 to port in,
autoattack and port out in most cases?I assume this strategy is superior to a skill tht is rooting you on a point and taking all the dmg till ur burst/evade actually gonna hit.
Because they don’t just port in, autoattack and port out. They do use PW; they just don’t spam it.
Personally, I’m fine with the damage of PW. It just needs to lose either the stun or the evade.
Thief is all about outplaying the others yesterday i was playing p/d ZERK (yea not cond) for fun and was just killing things even pw thieves…. so easy to predict unless they are really good as shad, sizer or other top players but then they play well with any weapons set.
Dont blame a skill for your lack of experience. If you die try to see what you did wrong and what you could do instead. Get better is the most OP thing
Snip
you know that the thief is using PW+IS+IR so he is immune to damage or out of sight?
If there would be a time window where you could hit the thief after PW = No problem and no OP threads.
As I said, been playing it for my entire gw2 career.
IS + PW + SR poses less of a threat because there is a timeframe in which you can ignore the stun or stun the thief himself. Shadows return now even has a 1/2 second cast.
I am more worried about sleight of a hand, tough as it closes the time gap in which the thief is vulnerable.
If the thief uses IS, you can pop a block/teleport/shadowstep/blind/stun depending on your class. As IS has an aftercast, and PW has a cast.
If you fail to do that you can wait for the first part of PW (the stun part) to land, then stunbreak and walk out. Right after he finishes PW, you could already be at his shadowstep location or in between. Giving him less space to escape. If he tries to cast SR, just damage him/ stun him/ immobilize him right after. Whatever you like.
The hardest opponents for a PW thief to fight are:
- Any condition/cc engineer (cc’s/conditions)
- P/D condition thief (regenerates health in stealth/conditions)
- Necromancers (mainly because of heavy fears/conditions)
- A patient warrior avoiding blinding fields like a boss (heavy spikes)
PW is only good against bad players, it is really easy to dodge and interrupt because of how slow the windup is (~.6s), so in the open it is pretty much 100% avoidable unless they use immob + steal daze or basi, so those are the only 2 times they are probably going to land it which is not very often. Also most people try to keep their distance from pw but as long as u are 200 range away ull be fine so try to find their shadow return points (small white circles on the ground) and camp those so they cant escape after the pw ends.
Thief is all about outplaying the others yesterday i was playing p/d ZERK (yea not cond) for fun and was just killing things even pw thieves…. so easy to predict unless they are really good as shad, sizer or other top players but then they play well with any weapons set.
Dont blame a skill for your lack of experience. If you die try to see what you did wrong and what you could do instead. Get better is the most OP thing
p/d is a super strong 1v1 spec even on zerk so youre not that impressive, also doesnt say much since it counters s/p
also i play guard and i don’t lose to them but the difficulty of beating even brand new thieves is ridiculous. It’s easier to play than hambow and spirit ranger combined..
Holy
Sharks With Lazers [PEW]
Sharks With Lazers [PEW]
If there would be a time window where you could hit the thief…
That’s always been an issue with the thief class.
Pistol whip is much better than stealth spams though.
It takes more skill to pull off and is more counterable.
Stun, very high damage, evade tanking, no cool-down in a game without a dedicated healer class.
It’s astounding that it (or the Thief in general) was included in this game at all. The Thief probably simply made it into GW2 because “We have to have our edgy rogue/ninja/assassin class, guuyyyyss!!” given that its play-style completely breaks every rule that governs how GW2 combat should function.
Stun, very high damage, evade tanking, no cool-down in a game without a dedicated healer class.
It’s astounding that it (or the Thief in general) was included in this game at all. The Thief probably simply made it into GW2 because “We have to have our edgy rogue/ninja/assassin class, guuyyyyss!!” given that its play-style completely breaks every rule that governs how GW2 combat should function.
Yep you cracked to code here. Especially the part where you say: "how GW2 combat SHOULD function. Thanks for clearing that up.
Stun, very high damage, evade tanking, no cool-down in a game without a dedicated healer class.
It’s astounding that it (or the Thief in general) was included in this game at all. The Thief probably simply made it into GW2 because “We have to have our edgy rogue/ninja/assassin class, guuyyyyss!!” given that its play-style completely breaks every rule that governs how GW2 combat should function.
Yep you cracked to code here. Especially the part where you say: "how GW2 combat SHOULD function. Thanks for clearing that up.
I suppose that I’m in the wrong for trusting people to understand simple truths about a game without a dedicated healer.
The skill itself is balanced. A trickery build thief which role is to roam inbetween points and gank people that are buzy it’s OP/Frustrating. That’s about it.
[vE] Visceral Effect – Blue
Stun, very high damage, evade tanking, no cool-down in a game without a dedicated healer class.
What??
A squishy high evade, high sustain (not spike) class that uses initiative is unworkable because the game doesn’t have healers… how, where did you come up with that?
Sure other games have healers, but other games also don’t use initiative… by no kittening means, AT ALL will having healers make theives balanced. They will be twice as unkillable, having shortbow will be a get-enough-space-to-get-healed-back-up-free card.
Like theives won’t be less broken with healers, s/p would be nerfed a lil offensively because of them, but cause twice the ‘QQ, this kitten is broken’ on the forums.
(edited by garethh.3518)
I missed the 24 hour deadline so posting this here.
John Peter already promised us the separating idea of this skill
This thread is for me personally so I can properly communicate to the designers how you guys feel about it.
Infiltrator strike with no target. Select target and pre cast pistol whip then use steal or infiltrator signet. Run through auto chain and use headshot on important short animations or proceed to pistol whip. Infiltrator return to escape. Short bow to harass and evade. Black powder to stomp. Spam pw on targets being ressed or use choking gas and cluster bombs. Also able to use infiltrators strike for the immobilize when needed, but pre casting pw is not the same as with steal and infiltrators signet and is easy to line up with the instant slice auto attack. It is an evade reliant build able to have good damage and decent bulk with the solder amulet (no quickness) or better damage with zerker (quickness).
It makes sense to turn pistol whip into a chain skill. I think more if not all skills should be chain skills which would get rid of the notion of spamming as you would need to set yourself up for a strong attack string, but the problem isn’t necessarily the skill itself. It is the amount of damage to bulk to evade chaining one can achieve when properly playing the build with a soldiers amulet on top of it granting 3 mechanical effects. The multi strike the stun and the evade. If it wasn’t for the lyssa runes pistol whip would be a better mechanical skill than any of the 3 elite skills.
snip
Because they don’t just port in, autoattack and port out. They do use PW; they just don’t spam it.
Personally, I’m fine with the damage of PW. It just needs to lose either the stun or the evade.
If it loses the stun, it loses dmg. If it it loses the evade, it’s a worthless skill.
Stun, very high damage, evade tanking, no cool-down in a game without a dedicated healer class.
What??
A squishy high evade, high sustain (not spike) class that uses initiative is unworkable because the game doesn’t have healers… how, where did you come up with that?Sure other games have healers, but other games also don’t use initiative… by no kittening means, AT ALL will having healers make theives balanced. They will be twice as unkillable, having shortbow will be a get-enough-space-to-get-healed-back-up-free card.
Like theives won’t be less broken with healers, s/p would be nerfed a lil offensively because of them, but cause twice the ‘QQ, this kitten is broken’ on the forums.
You missed the point entirely.
Pistol whip is not OP.
It’s the same story like it always is… a build gets popular for some reason, people don’t know how to couter it – people rage.
Some advice, if somebody is interested:
The skill has an obvious animation, so it can be avoided easily. Even if combined with steal or infiltrator’s signet. If the thief is at ~900 range and uses pistol whip (or CnD or whatever) he’ll port in. Btw, if you are running straight to the thief and he uses this combo, it will fail if the timing wasn’t good. Pistol whip will stun you, but the damage part won’t hit you because you are not in range any more.
Timing is also crucial when playing against a S/P thief, same as S/D.
Pistol whip roots, and at the end of the animation the thief is vulnerable, but still rooted. Play a S/P thief for a couple of soloQ/hotjoin matches and you will get a feeling for when to attack. At this point you have to use a key attack, preferably a CC skill. Or a quick damage spike like backstab.
For bunker builds: retaliation is your best friend.
“High damage, stun and evasion in one skill” sounds very nice on paper, however there is counter play.
The skill/weapon set is strong, but not overpowered.
Personally i would like to see the skill being splitted in 2 parts, making it more difficult/rewarding/complicated to use and preventing the infamous “3 spam” by having a higher total initiative cost.
If a smart Thief player picks up on the fact you’re dodging on the stun animation he can just cancel it with esc to make you blow dodges for free.
From the other thread : http://www.twitch.tv/blu42/c/3791781
That shows how powerful it is.
well that 30 trickery pistol whip thief did a really good job in 2v1 situation againts to that same pistol whip thief and a necro! it takes skill, he play really well with that shadow steps thingy.
I’ll keep saying it until you people get it: Pistol Whip is S/P’s Heartseeker. It’s already been nerfed to the ground since launch and only recently got a minor after cast fix, which somehow made it OP. New players will spam it since it’s easy to get kills off, especially in team fights where you’re being pressured from outside sources. Once counterplay is learned, the populous will only cry about it every once in a while and still call every S/P thief a “pistol whip spammer” regardless of if he used it in a fight or not. You people describing skill rotations obviously don’t play thief all too much, because apparently we aren’t limited by this thing called initiative (5 seconds is a long time. How’d you like to be dazed for that long during a fight? Didn’t think so), have 0s weapon swap cooldowns, and aftercasts don’t affect our interrupts or the next skill queued. It’s laughable, people attempting to discuss how a fight will go. When I do run zerk S/P, I rarely if ever get a full combo off on someone. The last person I did get one off on, was rank 12 playing in a Team Queue match where the majority of players were rank 30+, and I’m pretty sure went afk the entire fight. Some warriors are running Spiked Armor to combat this, and it’s effective, believe it or not. Guardians will pop retal and melt a pistol whip thief. Mesmers can start using focus and stack 100% retal uptime, and immobilizes and interrupts when you see the thief going through the ~0.9s aftercast and cast between pistol whips will ruin him. I love swapping to my warrior, running healing signet, endure pain, and spiked armor, and watching pistol whip thieves destroy themselves. Running longbow and catching them in a 6s immobilize and kiting behind them to avoid their teleports is one of the most satisfying things one can do.
The issue is that a new meta is arising for the thief class which very well counters the current meta, and people refuse to adapt to counter it back. I posted “the anti-meta” build prior to the December 10th patch and it didn’t gain popularity until recently. Please: I urge you to try different builds to counter it first, before you QQ, rather than going straight to the forums after you die to an S/P thief and cry to ANet that pistol whip needs nerfs. Removing any part of the skill would break the set entirely.
Because it makes terrible players who were useless with dagger/pistol look good with it since it takes even less skill than hambow warrior as you can do so many mistakes and still come out alive with 1000000000000000000000000 million evades / shadow steps / dodges.
Because it makes terrible players who were useless with dagger/pistol look good with it since it takes even less skill than hambow warrior as you can do so many mistakes and still come out alive with 1000000000000000000000000 million evades / shadow steps / dodges.
Yes. It is even less hard to use than hambow, s/d thief and spirit ranger. Which is saying something.
Official winner of solo queue MMR leaderboards – EU