Guild Wars 2

Mantra have to many downside to it:
1) Cooldowns.
Like all skill, it has a cool down which stop the mesmer from recharging it after they have finish casting it.
2)Charge time.
Every time a mantra comes off cd, we mantra mesmer have to recharge them before we can used them in combat.

These are the obvious flaws of mantra, it have to many mechanics tying it down, though being able to use it in the middle of other actions without interrupting them seems strong their effect aren’t that overpowered when considering each mantra,

1)Mantra of Recovery – heals way less than other heals, and only heals better if traited and take at most 4 sec to heal it full amount
2)Mantra of Pain – deals really minimal dmg if it doesn’t crit and if we are not traited power and geared zerker.
3)Mantra of Distraction – it has a cooldown in between the charges that keep it balance.
4)Mantra of Concentration and Resolve – these a situational abilities, and charges prevent them from being overpower as u can’t unlimitedly spam them.

Therefore with 2 limiter on mantras is too much, which make mantra not as lucrative compare to other skills.

Propose Change to Mantras – Remove cooldown in between emptied/used mantra and charging(cd in between charges for distraction and concentration is fine). Vary the charging time of all mantra depending on their power/strenght.
- this will give mantra a distinct flavour.
- limiter will be how will the mesmer recharge these mantra after used.
- counter will be to stop the channeling of mantras
- mantras will always be ready in between battles for mesmer as we can always recharge them before going to a new battle(no cd).

my take on their channeling time change is (just some estimation):
Mantra of Pain- 1sec, this only offer dps and not by much so it would be better if it’s down time is short
Mantra of Recovery – 3sec(or maybe more), so that players can interrupt it and not too long that a mesmer cannot recharge it in battle.
Mantra of Concentration and Resolve – 5-6sec, just to make it a bit tougher to have in back in battle.
Mantra of Distraction – 7-8sec, as this is a strong mantra if used right.

TL;DR: Too many limiter on mantras, so remove cooldown between used and charging of mantras, and vary the mantra recharging/channeling time to buff mantras.

Although I do agree that Mantras could need some improvement and maybe need a CD adjustment I want to point out two things regarding your suggestions.

• Mantra of Pain – Is already “abused” for using Restorative Mantras. The 1s recast will make it wildly overpowered supportwise. You could be healing yourself and your party for 2.6k every 1-2s without adding healing power. You wouldn’t even need your heal skill anymore.

• MoC, MoRes and MoD – A cast time of 5-8s will render those skills borderline useless for many situations (WvW, PvE, PvP) due to several reasons. First, you can be interrupted very easily. You won’t even be able to recharge while stealthed. Second, you will be useless for your team during the full cast. There are very view weapon skills which can be used while recharging, making you a sitting duck. Because the recast is so long Restorative Mantras would not help to compensate. This would also make Mantras a rip-off of Signets because the long recast time basically means not recharging the Mantras in a longer fight which equals an artificial CD after using the charges.

@Xaylin:
Mantra of Pain: True, using restorative mantras it may be powerful with a 1sec cast time. The sec i specify are just example, need more experiment to test what would be a good cast time for mantra of pain but 2.75 sec is too long. You also won’t be able to heal ur party every 1-2sec, u must take into account that u have to use up the charges depending if u had it traited which would take up to 6-8 sec to heal ur party in a small aoe which is really hard in fast pace pvp.

MoC,MoRes and MoD – Not true, with the current cd and cast time, it already really hard to get them up for every battle. If u have used ur charges in a battle and then cycle it to have them up for recharge. You have to wait for your mantra cd and recast them before being able to rejoin the fight. So why don’t just have that remove and place it into cast time.
Mantra of recovery – traited give an 8sec cd, with it cooldown and cast time move to a 3sec-4sec cast time. It will allow us better control, with a stealth u still be able to pull off the cast with a 1sec reaction time for opponent to counter(which is already really small). If having no cd and no longer cast time the skill will simply be op.
Mantra of Distraction – normally you won’t be able to recharge it or recast it in a fight. If your traited for all mantras, you still have to wait about 20sec to recast. Its also a strong skill with 5sec cd in between charges. So if you are able to find time or pull off a long recast in mist of battle with the propose changes then i say you should be rewarded for good positioning and map awareness. Having it un-counterable with no cd and short cast time under stealth is op.
Mantra of Concentration and Resolve – their strong breaker and cleanse, and like stated above in Mantra of Distraction, if you are able to pull of a recast in mist of battle then you should be rewarded, with their current cd, if you have used a charge in previous battle you either have to go into battle with less charges or sit out of battles till your cd comes off, which neither are good in fast action pvp. You have to rotate to node and assist as soon as a battle end, no other skill need you to wait for cool down and need you to prepare it just to enter battle.

So some longer cast time is needed to off-set for having no cool down and cooldown removed so that it bring mantra up to having only 1 set of limiter on the skill.

One main thing that also make mantra balance is that most of them are single target spell compare to the strength of aoe abilities and even if the leak patch note states that Mantra of Concentration and Resolve are getting aoe option their still not that strong as we are not guardian we can’t always be standing near a player at all time, most of the time mesmer are dodging, blinking and moving away from aoes and cleave that what make us survive being a soft glass cannon support.

Putting all of that aside, I’d like mantras to have more casts per charge. Like 4 or 5.

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Xaylin:
Mantra of Pain: True, using restorative mantras it may be powerful with a 1sec cast time. The sec i specify are just example, need more experiment to test what would be a good cast time for mantra of pain but 2.75 sec is too long. You also won’t be able to heal ur party every 1-2sec, u must take into account that u have to use up the charges depending if u had it traited which would take up to 6-8 sec to heal ur party in a small aoe which is really hard in fast pace pvp.

Mantra of Pain has a 1s reuse cd atm. You can basically spam it. So it would take you no longer than 2-3s to use your charges and recast the charges when your suggestions where implemented. The healing radius is quite big.

Regarding the other Mantras your didn’t get my point. Your suggestions make NO difference within a fight because you will create an artificial cooldown by increasing the casttime of the Mantras. You basically will never recast them even if it is possible theoretically. It might be a) impossible because you will be interrupted or b) unreasonable because you won’t contribute to the fight while recasting (no damage, no cc, no heal). The only thing your suggestions change, is the recovery after battle because you will have no CD.

Although, I do get what you are trying to do, I do not see your idea working.

You want to make Mantra’s viable in PvP.

1. Mantra’s should retain their charges when downed-rez’d.
2. Fix the issue of Mantra’s resetting whenever a mesmer steps in the water.

I know there is a work around for #2 by equipping the same mantra in the same slot as your underwater skills. But currently before a match, you may decide to switch out a mantra/utility skill based on your team/enemy team composition. And you can’t change your underwater skills at that time.

The fist issue is critical. I stopped using Mantra of Recovery as my healing spell for this reason. If I’m downed, and my teammate risks his neck to rez me, I’m as weak as a kitten for 3 seconds while I recharge my healing spell. During that time I am no use to my teammate.

Comments?

Mantras are awesome.
My Idea: Let them cool down while charged, so if you have your distraction up early you can instantly recharge it, but later in longer fights it cant fully recover.
Some CDs would need adjustment here, but having background CDs would give some nice depth and would add a lot of planning to mantra mesmer.

It’s nice that they are going to buff mantras in the next patch. Ally condi removal and stability is a plus.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

It’s nice that they are going to buff mantras in the next patch. Ally condi removal and stability is a plus.

Now if only anet would realize that its not ally condi removal we suck at its self condi removal…. Then maybe all would be gravy.