Guild Wars 2

If you’ve read the build notes, you’ll notice that there were 2 main changes to Revenant:

1. Retribution line just got more skill-based, i.e. harder to use. This mainly impacted condi rev due to Mallyx’s lack of a stunbreak.
2. Enchanted Daggers charges are consumed on every attack, not just every successful attack.

ED falls into my made-up category of “opponent-based heal,” meaning that the actions of the enemy influence the amount of healing. Here’s some examples of this type of heal skill and how much healing you can expect out of them with no healing power:

• Skelk Venom – Initial heal is 4210, with 5 charges that give 965 on each successful hit. Maximum total of 9035 if all attacks hit. Traited CD is 24s.
• Purification – Requires enemy to step on the trap for the big heal. Initial heal is 1608, on trap trigger 6413. That’s a total of 8021, and even if the enemy dodges through the trap it still triggers. Traited CD is 24s.
• Enchanted Daggers – Initial heal is 1640, with 6 charges that deal 858 damage and give 808 health on each successful hit. Maximum is 6456 if all attacks hit. CD is 30s.
• Facet of Light – Purely dependent on incoming damage. Works very well against power, you should get at least 5k health, but doesn’t really work against condis since they’ll last far longer than FoL and might result in net health loss.

The best comparison here is Skelk Venom and ED; SV’s initial heal is 2.5x that of ED, which is why the total healing is more for SV. ED has the additional limitation of only triggering once every 1/2s; attacks with multiple hits but whose hits come more than once every 1/2s won’t trigger on all the attacks. This also affects Impossible Odds indirectly, because with quickness every AA takes 1/4s. The 1/2s restriction gives opponents ample time to block, evade or invuln before more hits land, thus making it very likely that half of your EDs won’t hit.

What I’ve seen from some non-rev users is “just don’t attack until you’re sure that you can land the hit.” Is this a realistic way of playing the game? Remove all pressure until I’m sure that I can land my hits? Just not pressuring your opponent consistently is a stupid way to PvP, that’s just allowing them extra time to counterattack, which I can’t afford due to my terrible heal. At this point it’s clear that ED is an inferior version of a Thief venom, which is just embarrassing. And you can’t trait ED for a reduced cooldown like on SV.

Flipside: ED’s life siphon is superior to SV’s heal-on-hit because it gives more damage. ED does significantly increase damage output on successful hits. Whether or not you think Revs need more heals vs. more damage is a matter of personal opinion and playstyle.

My solution, by the way, is to remove the 1/2s restriction. That way Revs can still use ED in a well-thought out burst, instead of having to carefully plan when to use all 6 charges. That’s not good design. And this way we can have consistency with SV in that you can block/evade/invuln to force the Rev to waste charges.

This isn’t going to kill power Rev. I won’t explain why; it’s obvious. ED was powerful, but it’s not the most powerful thing Revs have.

ED was not a hugely relevant tool in terms of damage, but since we’ll now be missing around 3 of those charges when being aggressive (2400 healing) or land all of them while being conservative and taking more hits, this overall results in less health for Revs. That’s the issue, not the loss of damage potential.

I’d say condi rev is now destroyed too. It wasn’t that great prior to this patch. Now if you get caught in mallyx and don’t have stab up (which is very likely with the new functionality) you can easily be cc-ed to death.

Also,
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-heal-nerf-insane-Too-far-gone/first#post6370539

If rev defenses are going to stay this low, we are going to need a revert to some of the damage nerfs we had previously or some additional condi removal. There are too many ways to 100-0 rev now.

It was bad design. Having skills that do not miss ever is bad design.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

It was bad design. Having skills that do not miss ever is bad design.

I would say the biggest design flaw was making a heal skill that does almost as much damage as it heals. It is a heal skill that should be it’s primary purpose. The other issue is having a now excessive amount of counter play for this skill compared to other heals. It can be interrupted like most other heals, additionally it can be dodged, blocked, reflected, blinded (need to test), or just kited and waited out. Even with all that it still heals for a low health to cool down ratio even if every charge lands.

When you compare it with Skelk Venom don’t forget that revs have another healing skill on the other legend, while thief only has SV.

Revenant have 2 Healing Skills, not only one, and (more important) that wtwo healing skills don’t share the same cooldown.
If you want to compare reve healing skill with other, then, your Enchanted Daggers heal too much.

ArthurDent.9538:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

It was bad design. Having skills that do not miss ever is bad design.

I would say the biggest design flaw was making a heal skill that does almost as much damage as it heals. It is a heal skill that should be it’s primary purpose. The other issue is having a now excessive amount of counter play for this skill compared to other heals. It can be interrupted like most other heals, additionally it can be dodged, blocked, reflected, blinded (need to test), or just kited and waited out. Even with all that it still heals for a low health to cool down ratio even if every charge lands.

It also ignores endure pain and revs have 2 heals.

The self entitlement I’ve been reading on this sub forum is appalling in regards to these changes.

Revs are still the best class in the game

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

I’d say, “Why should I have to use a sub-par build just to change my healing skill?”

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

Shadowstep.6049:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

Wh-What’s trade-off, precious?

vaxjani.9073:

When you compare it with Skelk Venom don’t forget that revs have another healing skill on the other legend, while thief only has SV.

Thief has one heal slot but 5 options, and nobody takes SV because it’s not competitive. At this point rev has 2 heal slots and 2 options with 30s recharge each, neither of which are effective against experienced players. Honestly I would be happy with one heal if it were as good as channeled vigor (20s recharge), Signet of Malice (15s recharge) or even Withdraw (18s recharge). All of those are traitable for further recharge reduction btw, Rev doesn’t have that option. Looking at SoM, at this point its active heal is similar to what you’re gonna from ED, and with a 15s recharge I can use it just as frequently as my 2 Rev heals if not more often. And its passive effect is actually very good, I’d be happy with 1k passive health regen every 7.5 attacks with no need for activation.

So yes, while Rev has more heal quantity, it’s not higher quality. Clownmug summed it up:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

If you want to show me how Mallyx, Jalis, or Ventari (our other amazing choices) builds play in sPvP feel free to stream some matches, I’ll grab my popcorn. And don’t listen to the haters, the Retribution line they just nerfed is still totally viable.

Velimere.7685:

Shadowstep.6049:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

Wh-What’s trade-off, precious?

It is magical! It is essence of balance but got lost long ago in the deep depths of doom.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

Run a legend without stunbreaks on a class with 0 access to reliable stability? That wise and smart. I really never thought about it before.

Huskyboy.1053:

If you want to show me how Mallyx, Jalis, or Ventari (our other amazing choices) builds play in sPvP feel free to stream some matches, I’ll grab my popcorn.

Also this.. except popcorn. Cookies+tea for me. Im waiting for the videos.

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

Run a legend without stunbreaks on a class with 0 access to reliable stability? That wise and smart. I really never thought about it before.

Run invocation two Stun breaks… have reliable Stability just have to time Dodges and actually evade..

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

Run a legend without stunbreaks on a class with 0 access to reliable stability? That wise and smart. I really never thought about it before.

Run invocation two Stun breaks… have reliable Stability just have to time Dodges and actually evade..

Neither are reliable source. Im waiting for your videos playing a ventari/mallyx/jalis rev. Check i will gladly reinstall the game just to 1v1 your Mallyx/Jalis/Ventari rev. My skullcrack berserker is waiting. I will record it and post on these forums. Deal?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

The only reason invocation is run as a tree is because it performs well with shiro if you guys didn’t know this btw.

Shiro legend has completely carried power rev, and the stab trait is the only thing that was allowing condi to work.

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

Burtnik.5218:

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

WE KNOW

Burtnik.5218:

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

I don’t understand why you guys are all up in arms over ED, it’s has always been the worst thing to have.

you forgot to mention that skelk venom has double the cast time of ED,

1 sec to cast a heal skill in the middle of pvp is basically a suicide especially for thief, while ED is only 1/2 sec cast time and rev can soak about 70% more damage than thief

Lexander.4579:

you forgot to mention that skelk venom has double the cast time of ED,

1 sec to cast a heal skill in the middle of pvp is basically a suicide especially for thief, while ED is only 1/2 sec cast time and rev can soak about 70% more damage than thief

Where exactly is “the middle of pvp” I’m trying to find it rn.

Best part about this thread is if pro league were to lose the 1 class per team rule revs would be the first class stacked

lol

Huskyboy.1053:

Lexander.4579:

you forgot to mention that skelk venom has double the cast time of ED,

1 sec to cast a heal skill in the middle of pvp is basically a suicide especially for thief, while ED is only 1/2 sec cast time and rev can soak about 70% more damage than thief

Where exactly is “the middle of pvp” I’m trying to find it rn.

its basically whenever you find yourself spamming those low cost low cd weapon/utility skills of yours

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

It was bad design. Having skills that do not miss ever is bad design.

Mechanically speaking, all of HoT was bad design but it wasn’t the concept; on a skill standpoint, it was how faceroll each and every class became.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

I don’t understand why you guys are all up in arms over ED, it’s has always been the worst thing to have.

Backed off already? You make me sad. I complained about Shiro heal back at his reveal, during beta i wanted to get it changed. Idc if it will deal damage or not, i want reliable heal ability in a healing skill slot. I wouldnt give a kitten if it was an utility skill, but its healing one and i would like to have reliable healing. When i played guardian i was farting off healing no matter what i pressed, i didnt had to worry about hitting someone/taking hits on purpose. When i played warrior i was healing for 900hp/s while being afk at the same time.

No healing skill has so many counters like ED and the worst thing is we cant even swap it away for something else without losing other utility skills unlike all 8 classes for whatever reason. This heal is on par with water spirit – they are the worst healing abilities in the game, even thief skelk is better and you dont see it being picked by anyone cus its trash ability. ED the olny heal in game which has “interval”, can be reflected to heal your enemy instead, deflected, blinded and now also “daggers” are lost on block/evade.

I want them to delete this ability already and give Shiro a new healing ability https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meditation_of_the_Reaper
or
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Battle_Scars

In general, revenant is a class which is up to a overhaul, he wasnt even supposed to have wep swap in the first place but the designer responsible for this class kittened up and we ended up with what we have now. A bugged beta class where most of the abilities are simply unviable and something like number changes wont fix anything.

I sitll wonder why they ever touched sword mh in the first place when it was good where it was. Now we have a skill that aims into houses and other bullkitten and they dont even bother to fix the mess they created. So basically we are with sword that is kittened OP in 1v1 but useless in 1vX. The sword desing is really off in general, autoattack want you to group as many enemeis in one place as possible while 2 and 3 are doing the opposite. Anet logic is too stronk for me really.

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

I don’t understand why you guys are all up in arms over ED, it’s has always been the worst thing to have.

Backed off already? You make me sad. I complained about Shiro heal back at his reveal, during beta i wanted to get it changed. Idc if it will deal damage or not, i want reliable heal ability in a healing skill slot. I wouldnt give a kitten if it was an utility skill, but its healing one and i would like to have reliable healing. When i played guardian i was farting off healing no matter what i pressed, i didnt had to worry about hitting someone/taking hits on purpose. When i played warrior i was healing for 900hp/s while being afk at the same time.

No healing skill has so many counters like ED and the worst thing is we cant even swap it away for something else without losing other utility skills unlike all 8 classes for whatever reason. This heal is on par with water spirit – they are the worst healing abilities in the game, even thief skelk is better and you dont see it being picked by anyone cus its trash ability. ED the olny heal in game which has “interval”, can be reflected to heal your enemy instead, deflected, blinded and now also “daggers” are lost on block/evade.

I want them to delete this ability already and give Shiro a new healing ability https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meditation_of_the_Reaper
or
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Battle_Scars

In general, revenant is a class which is up to a overhaul, he wasnt even supposed to have wep swap in the first place but the designer responsible for this class kittened up and we ended up with what we have now. A bugged beta class where most of the abilities are simply unviable and something like number changes wont fix anything.

I sitll wonder why they ever touched sword mh in the first place when it was good where it was. Now we have a skill that aims into houses and other bullkitten and they dont even bother to fix the mess they created. So basically we are with sword that is kittened OP in 1v1 but useless in 1vX. The sword desing is really off in general, autoattack want you to group as many enemeis in one place as possible while 2 and 3 are doing the opposite. Anet logic is too stronk for me really.

Really if you are having problems with ED, it sounds like you may be a little impotent……

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

I don’t understand why you guys are all up in arms over ED, it’s has always been the worst thing to have.

Backed off already? You make me sad. I complained about Shiro heal back at his reveal, during beta i wanted to get it changed. Idc if it will deal damage or not, i want reliable heal ability in a healing skill slot. I wouldnt give a kitten if it was an utility skill, but its healing one and i would like to have reliable healing. When i played guardian i was farting off healing no matter what i pressed, i didnt had to worry about hitting someone/taking hits on purpose. When i played warrior i was healing for 900hp/s while being afk at the same time.

No healing skill has so many counters like ED and the worst thing is we cant even swap it away for something else without losing other utility skills unlike all 8 classes for whatever reason. This heal is on par with water spirit – they are the worst healing abilities in the game, even thief skelk is better and you dont see it being picked by anyone cus its trash ability. ED the olny heal in game which has “interval”, can be reflected to heal your enemy instead, deflected, blinded and now also “daggers” are lost on block/evade.

I want them to delete this ability already and give Shiro a new healing ability https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meditation_of_the_Reaper
or
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Battle_Scars

In general, revenant is a class which is up to a overhaul, he wasnt even supposed to have wep swap in the first place but the designer responsible for this class kittened up and we ended up with what we have now. A bugged beta class where most of the abilities are simply unviable and something like number changes wont fix anything.

I sitll wonder why they ever touched sword mh in the first place when it was good where it was. Now we have a skill that aims into houses and other bullkitten and they dont even bother to fix the mess they created. So basically we are with sword that is kittened OP in 1v1 but useless in 1vX. The sword desing is really off in general, autoattack want you to group as many enemeis in one place as possible while 2 and 3 are doing the opposite. Anet logic is too stronk for me really.

Burt they’re just baiting you tbh, no real arguments have been made that ED is actually good or that its cons outweigh its pros. This thread is full of thief trolls who are mad that their class can’t take a hit.

All of you randoms who said Power rev is bad because of shiro heal nerf are all boosted apes. Power rev is still the best power specs in the game. The must have of every team comp. In fact, they can even remove shiro heal and rev will still be use.

If you have a problem with what I said. Come and 1v1 me for 500g. I’ll stream that and you better pay after I whoop you. Don’t ditch like that one dude who challenged me and didn’t pay.

Exceptions are people who I know are not boosted apes ofc.

xKratos.4758:

All of you randoms who said Power rev is bad because of shiro heal nerf are all boosted apes. Power rev is still the best power specs in the game. The must have of every team comp. In fact, they can even remove shiro heal and rev will still be use.

If you have a problem with what I said. Come and 1v1 me for 500g. I’ll stream that and you better pay after I whoop you. Don’t ditch like that one dude who challenged me and didn’t pay.

Exceptions are people who I know are not boosted apes ofc.

Let’s see…

> Posted 5 minutes ago
> Has been challenged, gone to a hotjoin, dueled, come back to forums and edited post in those 5 minutes

Yeah that checks out.

So one of ur two healabilities is actually weaker than a heal of the professions that have only one? Sad story. And yeah stability on dodge when u actually have to evade sth. rly kills the game. Maybe hope for a dmg buff on legend swap or sth. different which is hard to achieve…

I can live with the change to ED, what makes me sad is the change to stability. Totally nerfing a trait in a line that was barely used by power revs but destroying condi rev builds.

Maybe what they’re aiming to do is to put the stability in dwarf and ventari to force revs out of glint?

Isn’t it just TERRIBLE that your class has a little more counterplay?!?! ED should instead be unblockable instant damage to be balanced! And EACH heal needs to be as effective as every other classes!

Don’t take into account the stupid burst potential combined with an insane amount of hard mitigation (on a burst class) that allow you to sustain like a bruiser and burst like a thief.

/s

Stop complaining about a good change. Revs still need to have some of their hard mitigation (evades/invulns/blocks, etc.) and stupidly easy burst damage (looking at you sword 2 and surge of the mists cc self-chaining) reduced, and need to be given some more options to cleanse condis reasonably. Revs shouldn’t be competing with thief for primary dps role, they should be competing for bruiser/side-point roles with scrappers and druids thanks to all the defensive capabilities.

I am really surprised how little iteration has happened with rev. skills (base and specialization). They should see more changes than other classes in order to bring them up to par with all the years of tweaking they have had.

BlackBeard.2873:

Isn’t it just TERRIBLE that your class has a little more counterplay?!?! ED should instead be unblockable instant damage to be balanced! And EACH heal needs to be as effective as every other classes!

Don’t take into account the stupid burst potential combined with an insane amount of hard mitigation (on a burst class) that allow you to sustain like a bruiser and burst like a thief.

/s

Stop complaining about a good change. Revs still need to have some of their hard mitigation (evades/invulns/blocks, etc.) and stupidly easy burst damage (looking at you sword 2 and surge of the mists cc self-chaining) reduced, and need to be given some more options to cleanse condis reasonably. Revs shouldn’t be competing with thief for primary dps role, they should be competing for bruiser/side-point roles with scrappers and druids thanks to all the defensive capabilities.

I am really surprised how little iteration has happened with rev. skills (base and specialization). They should see more changes than other classes in order to bring them up to par with all the years of tweaking they have had.

it reminds me of the gaurds complaining about their heal getting a slight cooldown increase and claiming the class is rip. yeah right.also i play rev. this heal was barely even used because of how bad it is. id rather just do constant evade frames until my glint heal is back.honestly the amount of sustain i have is just unreal with this class. evade evade evade heal heal heal block block block. and half of my defensive abilities does insane damage too.

Well you pretty much worked it out on your own with your flipside comment at the end. ED does indeed have more damage and does not need to be traited to do damage. Even when traited, SV does significantly less damage than BD and that damage difference increases even more when you factor in Devastation traits. However, although SV has no damage baseline, it does heal more overall both traited and untraited. So they’re pretty well balanced when you take all those things into consideration.

But the recent change is good for the game overall though. In fact anything that is applied to an attack (even from sigils) that is blocked, blinded, evaded etc should be removed. If someone has a Doom sigil proc ready for you and you dodge the attack that would apply it to you, that Doom proc should be lost until the next weapon swap (unless this is already the case and I’m just mad?).

Simonoly.4352:

Well you pretty much worked it out on your own with your flipside comment at the end. ED does indeed have more damage and does not need to be traited to do damage. Even when traited, SV does significantly less damage than BD and that damage difference increases even more when you factor in Devastation traits. However, although SV has no damage baseline, it does heal more overall both traited and untraited. So they’re pretty well balanced when you take all those things into consideration.

But the recent change is good for the game overall though. In fact anything that is applied to an attack (even from sigils) that is blocked, blinded, evaded etc should be removed. If someone has a Doom sigil proc ready for you and you dodge the attack that would apply it to you, that Doom proc should be lost until the next weapon swap (unless this is already the case and I’m just mad?).

My point isn’t that the change was wrong, it’s that it leaves Shiro with a laughable heal. My suggestion was and is to remove the 1/2s trigger interval (SV doesn’t have this) so that ED can be used in bursts. People who disagree throw around the “2 heals” point as if those 2 heals actually add up to something significant, whereas in most cases they don’t. More heal > more damage in this case, Revs don’t need the extra damage from ED but do need more healing.

Huskyboy.1053:

Simonoly.4352:

Well you pretty much worked it out on your own with your flipside comment at the end. ED does indeed have more damage and does not need to be traited to do damage. Even when traited, SV does significantly less damage than BD and that damage difference increases even more when you factor in Devastation traits. However, although SV has no damage baseline, it does heal more overall both traited and untraited. So they’re pretty well balanced when you take all those things into consideration.

But the recent change is good for the game overall though. In fact anything that is applied to an attack (even from sigils) that is blocked, blinded, evaded etc should be removed. If someone has a Doom sigil proc ready for you and you dodge the attack that would apply it to you, that Doom proc should be lost until the next weapon swap (unless this is already the case and I’m just mad?).

My point isn’t that the change was wrong, it’s that it leaves Shiro with a laughable heal. My suggestion was and is to remove the 1/2s trigger interval (SV doesn’t have this) so that ED can be used in bursts. People who disagree throw around the “2 heals” point as if those 2 heals actually add up to something significant, whereas in most cases they don’t. More heal > more damage in this case, Revs don’t need the extra damage from ED but do need more healing.

Having both heals is an advantage though you are just looking at the skill in a vacuum it is balanced around the whole class not just the one skill.

Huskyboy.1053:

My point isn’t that the change was wrong, it’s that it leaves Shiro with a laughable heal. My suggestion was and is to remove the 1/2s trigger interval (SV doesn’t have this) so that ED can be used in bursts. People who disagree throw around the “2 heals” point as if those 2 heals actually add up to something significant, whereas in most cases they don’t. More heal > more damage in this case, Revs don’t need the extra damage from ED but do need more healing.

1. Heals shouldn’t lead to burst damage WHILE ALSO healing you
2. Revs don’t need any more burst damage through procs anyway. Properly bursting can already 1-shot (or nearly) many common builds.

BlackBeard.2873:

Huskyboy.1053:

My point isn’t that the change was wrong, it’s that it leaves Shiro with a laughable heal. My suggestion was and is to remove the 1/2s trigger interval (SV doesn’t have this) so that ED can be used in bursts. People who disagree throw around the “2 heals” point as if those 2 heals actually add up to something significant, whereas in most cases they don’t. More heal > more damage in this case, Revs don’t need the extra damage from ED but do need more healing.

1. Heals shouldn’t lead to burst damage WHILE ALSO healing you
2. Revs don’t need any more burst damage through procs anyway. Properly bursting can already 1-shot (or nearly) many common builds.

1. You’re right, healing should neither be connected to damage nor dependent on it
2. Also true, it’s almost like you quoted me saying Revs don’t need more damage.

While the 1/2s restriction on hits is weird and has no heal skill equivalent, I would also support just reducing the life siphon and moving that over to healing. That way more healing and less damage.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Huskyboy.1053:

Simonoly.4352:

Well you pretty much worked it out on your own with your flipside comment at the end. ED does indeed have more damage and does not need to be traited to do damage. Even when traited, SV does significantly less damage than BD and that damage difference increases even more when you factor in Devastation traits. However, although SV has no damage baseline, it does heal more overall both traited and untraited. So they’re pretty well balanced when you take all those things into consideration.

But the recent change is good for the game overall though. In fact anything that is applied to an attack (even from sigils) that is blocked, blinded, evaded etc should be removed. If someone has a Doom sigil proc ready for you and you dodge the attack that would apply it to you, that Doom proc should be lost until the next weapon swap (unless this is already the case and I’m just mad?).

My point isn’t that the change was wrong, it’s that it leaves Shiro with a laughable heal. My suggestion was and is to remove the 1/2s trigger interval (SV doesn’t have this) so that ED can be used in bursts. People who disagree throw around the “2 heals” point as if those 2 heals actually add up to something significant, whereas in most cases they don’t. More heal > more damage in this case, Revs don’t need the extra damage from ED but do need more healing.

Having both heals is an advantage though you are just looking at the skill in a vacuum it is balanced around the whole class not just the one skill.

Blaque nobody has any reason to believe you unless you provide proof and numbers. You think it’s balanced? Ok, taking CDs, traiting, cast time, armor, dodge access, condi cleansing potential, and any other relevant factors into account, show me that Rev’s heals are generally better than 5 other classes. That would put Rev’s heals in the top 50%. Note that Revs can’t use the 2 heals back-to-back, legend swap has a 10s cooldown. And use real examples like Channeled Vigor on thief, I used Skelk Venom as an example precisely because it’s bad enough that people don’t use it.

This is what you have to do to show people that you actually know what you’re talking about, anybody can claim that a meta is balanced or imbalanced, it doesn’t mean anything unless you prove it.

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Huskyboy.1053:

Simonoly.4352:

Well you pretty much worked it out on your own with your flipside comment at the end. ED does indeed have more damage and does not need to be traited to do damage. Even when traited, SV does significantly less damage than BD and that damage difference increases even more when you factor in Devastation traits. However, although SV has no damage baseline, it does heal more overall both traited and untraited. So they’re pretty well balanced when you take all those things into consideration.

But the recent change is good for the game overall though. In fact anything that is applied to an attack (even from sigils) that is blocked, blinded, evaded etc should be removed. If someone has a Doom sigil proc ready for you and you dodge the attack that would apply it to you, that Doom proc should be lost until the next weapon swap (unless this is already the case and I’m just mad?).

My point isn’t that the change was wrong, it’s that it leaves Shiro with a laughable heal. My suggestion was and is to remove the 1/2s trigger interval (SV doesn’t have this) so that ED can be used in bursts. People who disagree throw around the “2 heals” point as if those 2 heals actually add up to something significant, whereas in most cases they don’t. More heal > more damage in this case, Revs don’t need the extra damage from ED but do need more healing.

Having both heals is an advantage though you are just looking at the skill in a vacuum it is balanced around the whole class not just the one skill.

Blaque nobody has any reason to believe you unless you provide proof and numbers. You think it’s balanced? Ok, taking CDs, traiting, cast time, armor, dodge access, condi cleansing potential, and any other relevant factors into account, show me that Rev’s heals are generally better than 5 other classes. That would put Rev’s heals in the top 50%. Note that Revs can’t use the 2 heals back-to-back, legend swap has a 10s cooldown. And use real examples like Channeled Vigor on thief, I used Skelk Venom as an example precisely because it’s bad enough that people don’t use it.

This is what you have to do to show people that you actually know what you’re talking about, anybody can claim that a meta is balanced or imbalanced, it doesn’t mean anything unless you prove it.

You can use the heals back to back once you use one you can swap to the other legend that does not lock you out of using the second heal, you just can’t swap to the other legend for 10 secs…. also the reason you compare ED to Skelk is that they are almost identical at every level of functionality except ED provides damage. You are right Skelk Venom is a crap heal Thieves don’t take it but Revs have the bonus of having a second heal to fall back on. And the potential of the second heal especially if running Meta is so much more than other classes.

Rev is still arguably strongest class, some would argue mesmer competes with it tho