Guild Wars 2

…of a Solo Queue match.

• Guardians = +5
• Rangers = +3
• Necromancer = +3
• Warriors = +2
• Engineers = +2
• Mesmer = -1
• Elementalist = -2
• Thief = -4
• AFK Person = -5

The team with the highest # wins. It’s not 100%, but it’s pretty accurate, and if there’s a large disparity between the teams’ #s it will not even be close. Not even by a little bit.

Try it out. Tell me if I can tweak some numbers. This is what I’ve been doing before matches, and usually I’m right. It only goes wrong when you have a really terrible guardian/warrior/necro/engie or a really good thief/mes/ele…but since skill is rare it usually holds up.

True, I haven’t. But they’re pretty weak to conditions and can’t usually bunker a point plus they have a high skill-cap so most people who play them play them poorly. Combine that with a condition/bunker meta and you have a recipe for a net team loss.

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplicity.7208:

True, I haven’t. But they’re pretty weak to conditions and can’t usually bunker a point plus they have a high skill-cap so most people who play them play them poorly. Combine that with a condition/bunker meta and you have a recipe for a net team loss.

I think you misunderstood. I love Mesmer, but I suck at Mesmer. -1 may be insufficient when I’m playing.

lol.

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplicity.7208:

True, I haven’t. But they’re pretty weak to conditions and can’t usually bunker a point plus they have a high skill-cap so most people who play them play them poorly. Combine that with a condition/bunker meta and you have a recipe for a net team loss.

I think you misunderstood. I love Mesmer, but I suck at Mesmer. -1 may be insufficient when I’m playing.

I know this is a joke…but at the same time i find this disturbing coming from a Dev.

Simplicity.7208:

…of a Solo Queue match.

• Guardians = +5
• Rangers = +3
• Necromancer = +3
• Warriors = +2
• Engineers = +2
• Mesmer = -1
• Elementalist = -2
• Thief = -4
• AFK Person = -5

The team with the highest # wins. It’s not 100%, but it’s pretty accurate, and if there’s a large disparity between the teams’ #s it will not even be close. Not even by a little bit.

Try it out. Tell me if I can tweak some numbers. This is what I’ve been doing before matches, and usually I’m right. It only goes wrong when you have a really terrible guardian/warrior/necro/engie or a really good thief/mes/ele…but since skill is rare it usually holds up.

nah, it’s more

War + 4
Guard +4
Spirit rangers +4
Engi +3
Necro +3

Mesmer + 0
Thief + 0
Afk guy -4
Ele -5

so if you have 5 bunker guards on team ( 25 points ) and none of them is AFK you are invincible. I think your math is wrong.

Mladi Bojevnik.2517:

so if you have 5 bunker guards on team ( 25 points ) and none of them is AFK you are invincible. I think your math is wrong.

For Solo Queue, that’s exactly how it works. Try to win that match with PUGs. They’d all have to be very terrible guardians for you to even have a chance….or you’d have to have all necromancers. I feel like all necromancers team counters all guardian team with all those conditions. Regardless, both situations are exceedingly unlikely and thus outside the realm of applicability of the calculation.

Simplicity.7208:

Mladi Bojevnik.2517:

so if you have 5 bunker guards on team ( 25 points ) and none of them is AFK you are invincible. I think your math is wrong.

For Solo Queue, that’s exactly how it works. Try to win that match with PUGs. They’d all have to be very terrible guardians for you to even have a chance….or you’d have to have all necromancers. I feel like all necromancers team counters all guardian team with all those conditions. Regardless, both situations are exceedingly unlikely and thus outside the realm of applicability of the calculation.

That is just one situation from your list. 5 Warrios vs 5 Necros i would bet on warriors also. You can not just make up something that is wrong in 50% of matches and call it good.

And 5 bunker guards winning aggainst 5 hambows yeah they really would have to be terrible.

Top 2 in solo queue leader boards are mesmers.

Eurantien.4632:

Top 2 in solo queue leader boards are mesmers.

As much as I love mesmer and wholeheartedly support how awesome the class is, I’m forced to at least somewhat agree with the OP.

Mesmer is the sort of class where you either get it or you don’t. It’s rare to find a sorta mediocre mesmer, you’ll either get a great one or a horrible one, and horrible ones dominate the spectrum, even though a great mesmer can easily carry a team.

Mrbig.8019:

Simplicity.7208:

…of a Solo Queue match.

• Guardians = +5
• Rangers = +3
• Necromancer = +3
• Warriors = +2
• Engineers = +2
• Mesmer = -1
• Elementalist = -2
• Thief = -4
• AFK Person = -5

The team with the highest # wins. It’s not 100%, but it’s pretty accurate, and if there’s a large disparity between the teams’ #s it will not even be close. Not even by a little bit.

Try it out. Tell me if I can tweak some numbers. This is what I’ve been doing before matches, and usually I’m right. It only goes wrong when you have a really terrible guardian/warrior/necro/engie or a really good thief/mes/ele…but since skill is rare it usually holds up.

nah, it’s more

War + 4
Guard +4
Spirit rangers +4
Engi +3
Necro +3

Mesmer + 0
Thief + 0
Afk guy -4
Ele -5

I’d go similar.

War + 4
Guard +4
Spirit rangers +4
Engi +3
Mesmer + 3
Thief + 3
Necro +2
Afk guy -4
Ele -5

For as far as I can tell, elementalist presence at the moment is pretty much non-existant. I was searching the matches yesterday only to find a successful solo elementalist and I couldnt. Not to mention most elementalist trait builds were just WHAT THE ACTUAL kitten?! I am only playing elementalist (S/D 0/10/10/20/30 evasive) and what I managed to come up with is: I can kite like a motherkittener (unless they lock me down). My burst is… meh, my consistend damage output is not a threat. Matchups I have: I lose to all classes except another elementalist/non-spirit ranger/necromancer. I can stall all fights forever if they are about the same as I am or worse.

Justin ODell.9517:

GeoX.5046:

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplicity.7208:

True, I haven’t. But they’re pretty weak to conditions and can’t usually bunker a point plus they have a high skill-cap so most people who play them play them poorly. Combine that with a condition/bunker meta and you have a recipe for a net team loss.

I think you misunderstood. I love Mesmer, but I suck at Mesmer. -1 may be insufficient when I’m playing.

I know this is a joke…but at the same time i find this disturbing coming from a Dev.

:P Don’t worry, we’ve got several very good players in PvP, and I think everyone on the skills and balance team cheats (not really) because they are all really good.

I keep meaning to practice, honest.

Here’s something to test for your top guys. Take a Mesmer any meta build that is not Phant (prefer shatter) Then put them solo on a point vs any condi meta build and tell me your results.

The easiest scenario ti imagine is:

-Which DOUBLE CLASS COMP is most succesful ?

Remember, this only soloQ, equaly random pugs, skill levels, etc….

2x guard – works. midpoint is practicaly yours
2x spirit ranger -
2x warior – organized teams sucesfully run this

2x engie – condi , CC spam
2x necro – bigger condi spam , though less mobility

2x thief – squishy , needs free caps and 3 point movement play
2x mesmer – alos squishy, with the need of a clutch turn around (portal, good interupts)

2x ele- mostly a loss. they can, but if team rezzes, its over

Simplicity.7208:

…of a Solo Queue match.

• Guardians = +5
• Rangers = +3
• Necromancer = +3
• Warriors = +2
• Engineers = +2
• Mesmer = -1
• Elementalist = -2
• Thief = -4
• AFK Person = -5

The team with the highest # wins. It’s not 100%, but it’s pretty accurate, and if there’s a large disparity between the teams’ #s it will not even be close. Not even by a little bit.

Try it out. Tell me if I can tweak some numbers. This is what I’ve been doing before matches, and usually I’m right. It only goes wrong when you have a really terrible guardian/warrior/necro/engie or a really good thief/mes/ele…but since skill is rare it usually holds up.

Science, it hurts me :/.

IMO:

• Guardians = +4
• Rangers = +4
• Necromancer = +5
• Warriors = +5
• Engineers = +4
• Mesmer = +1
• Justin ODell = 0
• Elementalist = +3
• Thief = +2
• AFK Person = 0

The average thie is more dangerous than a Mesmer. In fact, whenever I see a direct damage Mesmer I go “easy target”.
Doing damage as a thief is easy, most damage comes from #1. Newer players souldnt know how to survive with a thief though. Same goes for Mesmer.

Average Mesmers are some of the easiest opponents I meet :/.
You counter them = they do no damage, and cant defend themselves.
But I guess ts because Mesmer and thif arent forgiving, whereas with Warrior you can make some mistakes and survive/tank for longer.

I made Elementalists +3 instead of 1, because nowadays omly ‘pr0’ elementalists play them. The average player already stopped playing elementalist :/.

A pr0 elementalist can beat a Mesmer or Thief ;0.

Sorry but why are thieves -4? Do you play engineer or something?

They’re not really bad.

1 thief is good because they have high mobility and can decap points fast. Having any more would be a negative to the team.

kirito.4138:

1 thief is good because they have high mobility and can decap points fast. Having any more would be a negative to the team.

Were talking about the average solo Q person, of average skill/kmowledge etc.

Most thieves I see just roll around and die randomly kill people in mid or close fights.

Maybe Im just unlucky and meet the wron people :P

Btw, you cant make professions negative points, because t makes the math weird :P
By the OP’s numbers, a single ranger can win vs 5 thieves

I think it does not matter the class you play. If you start the game and you see a necro, a warrior and a bunker guardian next to you. You are happy.
If you see no. 4 a spirit ranger you should be even more happy.

So I guess,
bunker guardian +5,
necro + 4
warrior + 4
ranger + 3
Engi +3
Thief +2
Mesmer + 1
Ele + 1

something like this.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Eurantien.4632:

Top 2 in solo queue leader boards are mesmers.

As much as I love mesmer and wholeheartedly support how awesome the class is, I’m forced to at least somewhat agree with the OP.

Mesmer is the sort of class where you either get it or you don’t. It’s rare to find a sorta mediocre mesmer, you’ll either get a great one or a horrible one, and horrible ones dominate the spectrum, even though a great mesmer can easily carry a team.

Hey, where did your signature go? I didn’t even recognize you :o

In this meta, it’s more like:

War +10
Guard +5
Necro +5
Ranger +5
Engineer +2
Mesmer 0
Thief 0
Elementalist -3
AFK/Absent Player -20

I love my thief, but the brutal, honest truth is that if I want to get wins and rank, I’m much, much better off running with my Guard as a bunker.

Bunkers win games. That’s pretty much what a lot of it boils down to.

Afk absent player is more like -100 you cant win in that situation. Sure everyone has a story where they won being outnumbered 4 v5 the whole match but that is a 1% story or less. I don’t think you can just look at one class on a team in a vacuum and make absolute statements. You could have a guardian, two ele’s, and two thiefs and that to me is weak combination yet people are telling me having a guard is the number one predictor of success. It’s way more complicated then that.

I think the real take away is that people strongly believe (and apparently without much/any dissent) that matches are being decided by composition rather than individual player skill. That’s a definite thing to be concerned about (cough anet cough). I can’t even count how many times I’ve asked this before, but can we please just remove all of the high skill floor builds?

Simplicity.7208:

…of a Solo Queue match.

• Guardians = +5
• Rangers = +3
• Necromancer = +3
• Warriors = +2
• Engineers = +2
• Mesmer = -1
• Elementalist = -2
• Thief = -4
• AFK Person = -5

The team with the highest # wins. It’s not 100%, but it’s pretty accurate, and if there’s a large disparity between the teams’ #s it will not even be close. Not even by a little bit.

Try it out. Tell me if I can tweak some numbers. This is what I’ve been doing before matches, and usually I’m right. It only goes wrong when you have a really terrible guardian/warrior/necro/engie or a really good thief/mes/ele…but since skill is rare it usually holds up.

ahahaha this ranking is pretty accurate, even when I played a thief I tried to join the team with less/no thieves because when you have too many thieves on your team you lose more often than not.

Tried 5 warriors in team queue. It didn’t work out very well.

1 ranger is good. More than 1 and your comp begins to suffer.

Alissah.9281:

kirito.4138:

1 thief is good because they have high mobility and can decap points fast. Having any more would be a negative to the team.

Were talking about the average solo Q person, of average skill/kmowledge etc.

Most thieves I see just roll around and die randomly kill people in mid or close fights.

Maybe Im just unlucky and meet the wron people :P

Btw, you cant make professions negative points, because t makes the math weird :P
By the OP’s numbers, a single ranger can win vs 5 thieves

We put negative numbers in order to show they’re a hindarance.

An ele in this meta is just giving points to the other team for stomping, no matter how skilled he is.

At least thieves and mesmers can be useful to a certain degree.

Simplicity.7208:

Mladi Bojevnik.2517:

so if you have 5 bunker guards on team ( 25 points ) and none of them is AFK you are invincible. I think your math is wrong.

For Solo Queue, that’s exactly how it works. Try to win that match with PUGs. They’d all have to be very terrible guardians for you to even have a chance….or you’d have to have all necromancers. I feel like all necromancers team counters all guardian team with all those conditions. Regardless, both situations are exceedingly unlikely and thus outside the realm of applicability of the calculation.

Or you have a Mesmer who built around boon stealing and destroying, ever see a guardian covered in conditions and 100% boon less? Yeah, they don’t live very long bunker or no bunker.

maybe u should rate builds and not classes!

I’ve won about 75% of my solo queue matches in the past few weeks, all as a thief, and most of them had at least one other thief on my team.

I actually had one match where we had 4 thieves and a warrior against a balanced team with none afk, and they had higher ranks. We won with a score of about 500-120, so we made a guild with just the five of us and entered team arena and won three matches in a row (the first of which was about 500-80) before someone had to leave. This was with no voip and no plan.

There was also a solo queue match where my team was 2 thieves, a warrior, and a mesmer, (and no fifth player) vs a balanced team of five. It was close, but we actually won.

Don’t underestimate good thieves.

How is this different from all those “class tier list” threads we used to have :P

Anyway I’ll chip in:

Guardian = +6
Warrior = +6
Engineer = +5
Necromancer = +5
Ranger = +5
Thief = +4
Mesmer = +4
Elementalist = +1
AFK person = 0

hooma.9642:

maybe u should rate builds and not classes!

Mine are sorted by the best build that classes have use. Most classes have 1 specific build that is considered “meta” (i.e. optimal) e.g. bunker Guardian, hambow Warrior, grenade condi Engineer, spirit Ranger, etc.

hooma.9642:

maybe u should rate builds and not classes!

Yeah. I don’t get why guardian is rated so high on these lists here. The only guardians I get in my solo queues are full dps and they seem to die in every single 1v1 against whatever class. I’ve seen a bunker guardian twice in my last 60 matches or so.

Dps guard: -5

Guardian = +4
Warrior = +5
Engineer = +2
Necromancer = +3
Ranger = +3
Thief = +2
Mesmer = +2
Elementalist = -5
AFK person = -5

Yep, ele equals afk person

Ulalume.9584:

hooma.9642:

maybe u should rate builds and not classes!

Yeah. I don’t get why guardian is rated so high on these lists here. The only guardians I get in my solo queues are full dps and they seem to die in every single 1v1 against whatever class. I’ve seen a bunker guardian twice in my last 60 matches or so.

Dps guard: -5

and even then it makes no sense to judge by composition. i saw so many teams (who looked good on paper) fail after the moment they tried triple cap without needed builds.

Ulalume.9584:

hooma.9642:

maybe u should rate builds and not classes!

Yeah. I don’t get why guardian is rated so high on these lists here. The only guardians I get in my solo queues are full dps and they seem to die in every single 1v1 against whatever class. I’ve seen a bunker guardian twice in my last 60 matches or so.

Dps guard: -5

It amazes me how few bunker guards there are considering how good they are at winning games. I think people just get caught up in thinking that they win games by racking up high personal kills instead of capturing and holding points.

hooma.9642:

and even then it makes no sense to judge by composition. i saw so many teams (who looked good on paper) fail after the moment they tried triple cap without needed builds.

True.

But I think it’s less about builds and more about understanding the basics of your role and what you should be doing on each map. For example, a chubby Norn dps guard that crawls over the map in super slow motion should not try to steal Svanir. Same goes for two thieves repeatedly dying in mid instead of trying to back cap completely empty points.

Any player who understands his/her role: +100 (even on an ele)

Dahkeus.8243:

Ulalume.9584:

hooma.9642:

maybe u should rate builds and not classes!

Yeah. I don’t get why guardian is rated so high on these lists here. The only guardians I get in my solo queues are full dps and they seem to die in every single 1v1 against whatever class. I’ve seen a bunker guardian twice in my last 60 matches or so.

Dps guard: -5

It amazes me how few bunker guards there are considering how good they are at winning games. I think people just get caught up in thinking that they win games by racking up high personal kills instead of capturing and holding points.

It is just in human nature. In football people care who scores goals not who prevents them.

Guardian = +4
Warrior = +5
Engineer = +4
Necromancer = +3
Ranger = +4
Thief = 0
Mesmer = +2
Elementalist = -10
AFK person = -20

Next month after dec 10th

Guardian = +4
Warrior = +4
Engineer = +4
Necromancer = +3
Ranger = +3
Thief = -4
Mesmer = +4
Elementalist = -8
AFK person = -20

Mladi Bojevnik.2517:

Dahkeus.8243:

Ulalume.9584:

hooma.9642:

maybe u should rate builds and not classes!

Yeah. I don’t get why guardian is rated so high on these lists here. The only guardians I get in my solo queues are full dps and they seem to die in every single 1v1 against whatever class. I’ve seen a bunker guardian twice in my last 60 matches or so.

Dps guard: -5

It amazes me how few bunker guards there are considering how good they are at winning games. I think people just get caught up in thinking that they win games by racking up high personal kills instead of capturing and holding points.

It is just in human nature. In football people care who scores goals not who prevents them.

only the stupid ppl who dont realize its a teamgame. without the other 10 the one scoring is nothing. without the one scoring the rest is nothing.

Justin ODell.9517:

GeoX.5046:

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplicity.7208:

True, I haven’t. But they’re pretty weak to conditions and can’t usually bunker a point plus they have a high skill-cap so most people who play them play them poorly. Combine that with a condition/bunker meta and you have a recipe for a net team loss.

I think you misunderstood. I love Mesmer, but I suck at Mesmer. -1 may be insufficient when I’m playing.

I know this is a joke…but at the same time i find this disturbing coming from a Dev.

:P Don’t worry, we’ve got several very good players in PvP, and I think everyone on the skills and balance team cheats (not really) because they are all really good.

I keep meaning to practice, honest.

How much Devs are playing thief?…
And how much trying it without stealth?

It’s not like that. It’s like this:

• +1 for each coward in your team.
• -2 for each active player less in your team.

Profession doesn’t really factor into victory. In Conquest, being a coward and outnumbering the enemy wins. Spam conditions and run around dodging, avoiding combat as much as possible. Spam boons and heals on a captured point, wasting everyone’s time. Swarm the enemies with walls for spirits and minions, soaking damage. Sync to get friends in the other team so they go AFK, to get one extra player getting the map’s extra objectives while the rest cap.

That’s one of the reasons why we need more PvP modes, and systems to put on hold uneven players until both teams match. And systems to replace players lost or AFK.

If Balthazar was here all this cowardice would not be allowed.

We need changes aimed towards honor and bravery to achieve victory! Punish the cowards!

Hmmmm…How about…

• Guardians = +6
• Rangers = +3
• Necromancer = +4
• Warriors = +4
• Engineers = +2
• Mesmer = -1
• Elementalist = -4
• Thief = -3
• AFK Person = -7

I still hold that bunker guardians are single handedly the most important thing in a SoloQ. As for why thieves are so low? The meta is bunker. Thieves can’t really burst down anyone, and additionally they can’t really hold a point. As soon as a person shows up, the thief might as well not even be there since their team loses the point. Most thieves in SoloQ don’t run evade builds, they run stealth builds. Terrible for point capture gameplay. Otherwise probably right about the elementalists being worse than I had them.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Eurantien.4632:

Top 2 in solo queue leader boards are mesmers.

As much as I love mesmer and wholeheartedly support how awesome the class is, I’m forced to at least somewhat agree with the OP.

Mesmer is the sort of class where you either get it or you don’t. It’s rare to find a sorta mediocre mesmer, you’ll either get a great one or a horrible one, and horrible ones dominate the spectrum, even though a great mesmer can easily carry a team.

In this game there is easy profession and even easier profession. I have yet to find a “hard” profession to play.

Ryan.9387:

Tried 5 warriors in team queue. It didn’t work out very well.

1 ranger is good. More than 1 and your comp begins to suffer.

I was there. That kitten was hilarious.

“For Great Justice!”

On another note, there were a couple teams that successfully ran double spirit ranger comps in the MLG Tournament. Eura’s team was one of them

Pyriall.5027:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Eurantien.4632:

Top 2 in solo queue leader boards are mesmers.

As much as I love mesmer and wholeheartedly support how awesome the class is, I’m forced to at least somewhat agree with the OP.

Mesmer is the sort of class where you either get it or you don’t. It’s rare to find a sorta mediocre mesmer, you’ll either get a great one or a horrible one, and horrible ones dominate the spectrum, even though a great mesmer can easily carry a team.

In this game there is easy profession and even easier profession. I have yet to find a “hard” profession to play.

To be fair everything is always going to be “easy to play”. 11-14 skills at any given time it’s not hard to learn what to do and when. But it’s about how effective can you be and at what level of mindlessness has no risk.

Sure shatter mes and dagger thief aren’t “hard to play” but they do suffer for being mindless. Unlike other builds where they can go mindless mode still be effective, and have no risk to themselves.s

Guardian +5
Spirit ranger + 4
Warrior +2 and necro +3 but if they are paired with between themselves or a guard they become both 4.
Warriors are good only with strong team support.If they get a team of thief/mesmer/ele/engie and no necro spirit ranger or thief they will be the 1st ones too die because the easiest to focus or lock target on.

You can’t just go with static rankings on classes.Only guardian and spirit ranger stay strong on their own tournament wise only followed shortly by necro.

Rarnark.5623:

Ryan.9387:

Tried 5 warriors in team queue. It didn’t work out very well.

1 ranger is good. More than 1 and your comp begins to suffer.

I was there. That kitten was hilarious.

“For Great Justice!”

On another note, there were a couple teams that successfully ran double spirit ranger comps in the MLG Tournament. Eura’s team was one of them

I was just a sub. We would’ve done much better had I more time to prepare with them

Pyroatheist.9031:

As much as I love mesmer and wholeheartedly support how awesome the class is, I’m forced to at least somewhat agree with the OP.

Mesmer is the sort of class where you either get it or you don’t. It’s rare to find a sorta mediocre mesmer, you’ll either get a great one or a horrible one, and horrible ones dominate the spectrum, even though a great mesmer can easily carry a team.

Interesting. My mesmer is my least used character because I like it the least, but if I’m ever challenged to a 1v1.. I will always pick it, and I have always thought they were pretty easy to play.