Guild Wars 2

How do we attract PvE players to PvP? I did Claw of Jormag boss kill today and I noticed there were only a handful of people with PvP division markers beside their names. It felt kinda disappointing that out of the hundred plus people trying to kill Claw of Jormag, only a few bothered to atleast try amber league. It’s bad to be elitist in our little PvP club, we need attract more people in PvP, like it or not, to help it grow. For instance, the more popular it gets, the more resources are diverted to PvP by Arenanet. Resources that could produce more maps, more frequent balance updates, more additional skills and traits, etc. Maybe people are intimidated with PvP. That was what I first felt about PvP in Guild Wars 1, that PvP is only for the hardcore players of GW1. It was only when another guild member escorted me to the Battle Isles that I discovered Random Arenas, and from there, other PvP modes of GW1. While they did improve accessibility and introduction of PvP in GW2, I think people are still unwilling to click that PvP button and try out PvP for themselves. I think we just need to give them a taste of battle to change their opinions about PvP. Maybe include a side story, maybe even a story for each PvP map and include bots as allies and enemies. This would serve as a training tool for players as well as to build up their confidence in battle. Arenanet did this already in GW1, with Zaishen Elite as bot training enemies. Heck in Counter Strike, I used to play against bots when I was new to the game. Even League of Legends and DotA 2 had bot enemies for practice. It’s starting to feel like you guys forgot alot of things from GW1 to include back in GW2?

1.) Lack of game types.
2.) Absence of balance between professions and builds.
3.) Toxic players.
4.) Broken competitive systems.

This is what keeps players away from the pvp scene.

We don’t want PvE’rs. We tried that and they don’t want to play the game competitively. We want the PvP’rs back. The ones who are interested in winning more than grinding or farming PvE rewards.

Advertise that while far from perfect is the fairest game mode due to how OP specs are within anyone’s reach. WvW is kinda fair but you can get unlucky enough to be in the smaller zerg whereas in sPvP you always have teams of 5 (unless someone AFKs), goals are simple and clear, and there’s a higher skillcap so it pushes you to master your class better.

Yolo swaggins basically summed it up.

You also need to consider that there are a lot of carebears in this game, probably the highest amount I’ve seen in an MMO. You can convince them to try out pvp but they will not stay unless you throw rewards at them, which they are doing at the moment with the wings.

I was certain the legendary wings would get them to farm up in a premade.

Two things come to mind:

Build diversity and balance
I’ve noticed that PvE players like their build diversity a lot more than PvP players. Most PvPers just pick a class and then roll up the current meta or a variant thereof. PvE players care more about individuality than winning matches at all costs.

PvE players won’t show in great numbers if they have to exchange their carefully thought-out build for the current faceroll build to have any success. Anet would have to balance the difference skills and weapon sets within each class to create more builds that are viable across all game modes (WvW, PvE, PvP).

Speaking personally, I’ve tried running dagger/pistol thief in all game modes and I just don’t enjoy it. So I stick to s/d even though I know it is far from meta.

Community
PvE players tend to be friendly and helpful. (talking about open PvE here, not necessarily dungeons or fractals.) PvP players tend to be focussed on winning matches at all costs. Stated bluntly, many PvEers find the PvP community to be god-awful. I can see why.

The odds of Anet successfully addressing these issues seems low. PvPers will likely be stuck with a dwindling player base as people like myself eventually move on to other game modes or other games entirely.

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Lack of game types.
2.) Absence of balance between professions and builds.
3.) Toxic players.
4.) Broken competitive systems.

This is what keeps players away from the pvp scene.

and then hackks posts to prove one of the points right XD

The problem with most PVE people is they have more of a grind/farm mentality. PVP is competitive. We want to attract competitive people in PVP

Serophous.9085:

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Lack of game types.
2.) Absence of balance between professions and builds.
3.) Toxic players.
4.) Broken competitive systems.

This is what keeps players away from the pvp scene.

and then hackks posts to prove one of the points right XD

Yeah also hacks. That is a massive turnoff.

i’d rather have a small community of pvp players than many pve players. my only goal in a pvp match is to win. there is nothing more frustrating and annoying than someone just kitten ing around for the lolz screwing up my winrate. i hope all the pvers get their legendary backpack asap so they can go back to sw chestfarming and stop bothering me with their lack of technical and tactical skills.
i reject the whole premise that pve players need to be attracted to pvp.

cakeonroof.7385:

The problem with most PVE people is they have more of a grind/farm mentality. PVP is competitive. We want to attract competitive people in PVP

Another possibility is that many PvE players are competitive, they just don’t like the way PvP has been implemented in GW2 and/or they don’t care for the community. Therefore they get disappointed by their experience in PvP and go back to PvE.

Most gamers I know are not one way or the other; they play a little of everything. They could be getting their competitive gaming fix on LoL, CoD, or any number of other games while enjoying the PvE modes in GW2.

Food for thought.

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Community
PvE players tend to be friendly and helpful. (talking about open PvE here, not necessarily dungeons or fractals.)

This is such a pointless statement. You basically just said PvE players tend to be friendly and helpful except when they have to play as part of a team, which is exactly what PvP is.

HaxTester.9816:

How do we attract PvE players to PvP? I did Claw of Jormag boss kill today and I noticed there were only a handful of people with PvP division markers beside their names. It felt kinda disappointing that out of the hundred plus people trying to kill Claw of Jormag, only a few bothered to atleast try amber league. It’s bad to be elitist in our little PvP club, we need attract more people in PvP, like it or not, to help it grow. For instance, the more popular it gets, the more resources are diverted to PvP by Arenanet. Resources that could produce more maps, more frequent balance updates, more additional skills and traits, etc. Maybe people are intimidated with PvP. That was what I first felt about PvP in Guild Wars 1, that PvP is only for the hardcore players of GW1. It was only when another guild member escorted me to the Battle Isles that I discovered Random Arenas, and from there, other PvP modes of GW1. While they did improve accessibility and introduction of PvP in GW2, I think people are still unwilling to click that PvP button and try out PvP for themselves. I think we just need to give them a taste of battle to change their opinions about PvP. Maybe include a side story, maybe even a story for each PvP map and include bots as allies and enemies. This would serve as a training tool for players as well as to build up their confidence in battle. Arenanet did this already in GW1, with Zaishen Elite as bot training enemies. Heck in Counter Strike, I used to play against bots when I was new to the game. Even League of Legends and DotA 2 had bot enemies for practice. It’s starting to feel like you guys forgot alot of things from GW1 to include back in GW2?

What’s the intention of attracting more PvE player to PvP? So more pro teams or high skill players can abuse and farm them so they can get their ranks and legendary back piece faster?

Random Weird Guy.3528:

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Community
PvE players tend to be friendly and helpful. (talking about open PvE here, not necessarily dungeons or fractals.)

This is such a pointless statement. You basically just said PvE players tend to be friendly and helpful except when they have to play as part of a team, which is exactly what PvP is.

Rough day at work?

I qualified my statement because some dungeon players are hostile to each other, not all. It would have been dishonest to flatly state that the entirety of the PvE community is helpful and friendly.

PvE players are actually quite good at teamwork in my experience, and I’ve seen excellent teamwork in dungeons and events like Teq and so forth.

PvPers don’t have the monopoly on teamwork.

None of which I should even have to explain.

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

PvE players are actually quite good at teamwork in my experience, and I’ve seen excellent teamwork in dungeons and events like Teq and so forth.

That’s cops dungeons and teq are kitten easy mode. Go do level 59 fractals (cliffside with exploding enemies) with pugs and tell me that most of the PvE community is nice.

Also that so called ‘teamwork’ was never there when those things first came out (when teq first came out for example), it only exists because it’s been around for so long that people just complete the event without thinking, not because of ‘teamwork’.

Belial.9350:

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

PvE players are actually quite good at teamwork in my experience, and I’ve seen excellent teamwork in dungeons and events like Teq and so forth.

That’s cops dungeons and teq are kitten easy mode. Go do level 59 fractals (cliffside with exploding enemies) with pugs and tell me that most of the PvE community is nice.

Also that so called ‘teamwork’ was never there when those things first came out (when teq first came out for example), it only exists because it’s been around for so long that people just complete the event without thinking, not because of ‘teamwork’.

I don’t think you read my original post. We’re getting off-topic anyway.

In any event, there is a delicious irony here that the PvP community never seems to grasp.

PvP needs to get fresh blood from somewhere or it will just quietly die. That doesn’t do any of us any good.

Cool skins, mounts, unique titles. Basically what every other MMO does, I guess.

The pvp is extremely bad and Anet has no idea how to make a fun pvp game. That’s why.

I gave pvp a try a long time ago upto rank 15, my last match was in 2014 and within that short period i received death threats, accused of hacking(because a one shotted a thief with kill shot o_0), accused i can’t 1 v 1 in a 5 v 5 game, accused of not playing a so called pvp meta build(zero build diversity) and probably called a loser so many times that i can’t count it anymore lol

I avoid all toxicity in pve by making my own group with a few of my friends by kicking anyone with an attitude problem and join the TS community with with very hard meta events like TT and TD, now in a ranked game i can’t do this now can i?? Or wait you are going to accuse me of fighting pugs with premades , yeah it will never end…….adios

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Lack of game types.
2.) Absence of balance between professions and builds.
3.) Toxic players.
4.) Broken competitive systems.

This is what keeps players away from the pvp scene.

1.) Isn’t going to change that we already have a fantastic PvP mode.
2.) Isn’t strictly true, a vast VAST majority of complaints are the farcical delusions of unskilled players
3.) You’re gonna get grumpy kittens in every PvP game. This is an issue with humanity.
4.) Another farcical delusion turned Reddit meme. The only thing “broken” with the competitive system in place is that self proclaimed skilled players have to suffer the discomforting realisation that running a memebattle build and zerging for kills does not make you a good player, and that they will struggle to advance through the divisions , not because balance, some hidden system or because all their team-mates are bad, but because they themselves don’t possess the requisite skill or creativity.

Yeah so diamond ppl picking up an amber player to reduce mmr to fight weaker teams is a farcical delusion ………….. OK

Even competitive players do not start out as a skilled experienced pvp veteran. There is no doubt that pvp is more complex than pve because you have to learn what all the other classes can do, and what you can do against them. That does not happen within a few hours.

Unfortunately most pvp players will not tolerate inexperienced players. Anyone who does not meet their skill standard will be rejected, ridiculed and/or insulted.

I assume that the elitism and toxicity of many pvp players prevents many new players from feeling comfortable in the pvp community and play pvp regularly.

How do we attract PvE players to PvP?

Don’t. Accept that they do not enjoy PvP, and let them play the parts of the game that they do enjoy.

If you’re really set on attracting PvEer’s to PvP, here’s how you do it:

1. Bigger teams. Instead of 5v5, have teams of dozens of players per side.

2. Bigger maps. Instead of being relatively tiny, have huge maps, with plenty of places to explore and various activities you can do on them, like events, JPs, NPCs to talk to, etc.

3. A common foe. Instead of givign the teams nothing to do but fight each other, have NPC enemies that the players can fight against, which drop loot and complete events. Have some really big tough enemies that take dozens of players to drop, and other smaller enemies that you can fight one on one. Just to prevent friendly fire, make sure it’s impossible to damage other players with your attacks.

I think if they made those simple changes, then players who prefer PvE would be more likely to enjoy it.

i hope all the pvers get their legendary backpack asap so they can go back to sw chestfarming and stop bothering me with their lack of technical and tactical skills.

God yes. I wish there were more PvPers like you advocating easier ways for PvEers to get their wings so they don’t have to PvP.

>How to attract people to pvp

Have a functional ranking/matchmaking system. The pvp in this game doesn’t have it.

OP: Good idea for a sadist

I would be more attracted to PVP (as a previous pvper who has since pretty much given it up out of lack of enjoyment) if the following were done:

1. Balance around 1 v 1 instead of 5 v 5 (thus making solo queue less painful).
2. Implement dueling.
3. Bring back solo queue and get rid of pug vs premade.
4. Create new game modes that make it possible to play with friends but not a requirement, and once again, doesn’t put full premades against pugs.

All-in-all, I’m more of a solo/casual gamer and would be more attracted to pvp if they didn’t blatantly discourage solo play. Not only is the balance so terrible that you’ll get called a troll for simply PLAYING a warrior or a thief, but then they have the nerve to put a bunch of completely random solo players against a full premade team with the perfect pug-stomping comp, and with the game only being balanced around 5 v 5, having a non-perfect composition AND being pugs means we’re only farming materials for the premades.

If pvp were to appeal to all audiences instead of just the elite few premade teams, it would be a lot more fun and popular in my opinion.

Brew Pinch.5731:

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Lack of game types.
2.) Absence of balance between professions and builds.
3.) Toxic players.
4.) Broken competitive systems.

This is what keeps players away from the pvp scene.

1.) Isn’t going to change that we already have a fantastic PvP mode.
2.) Isn’t strictly true, a vast VAST majority of complaints are the farcical delusions of unskilled players
3.) You’re gonna get grumpy kittens in every PvP game. This is an issue with humanity.
4.) Another farcical delusion turned Reddit meme. The only thing “broken” with the competitive system in place is that self proclaimed skilled players have to suffer the discomforting realisation that running a memebattle build and zerging for kills does not make you a good player, and that they will struggle to advance through the divisions , not because balance, some hidden system or because all their team-mates are bad, but because they themselves don’t possess the requisite skill or creativity.

So you are totally okay with one game mode, less than half of all professions excelling in that one game mode, kittens going about unchecked and a progression system that doesn’t reward skill but team comp?

My answers?

1. put in a way of dealing with/actually infracting verbally toxic players. My experience of the PvP community is the majority is either indifferent or incredibly toxic.
2. remove the viewable personal score, given too many people are obsessed with personal glory over team victory (a problem with a LOT of team based competitive games, not just GW2) – not just to the point they’re throwing games for extra personal points, but also abusing others over having lower scores for going objectives > kills.

3. split the PvE and PvP skills, and then do a massive rebalance of numbers for PvP (durations etc). Constantly wrecking PvE builds for ‘PvP balance’ and then still not having balance in either mode is laughable, and this would go a long way to solving it.

4. lower the burst across the board. The power creep has been ridiculous for some professions post June.

5. get a solo queue back in. Seriously. Doesn’t matter how skilled you are if you get matched with randoms all over the place vs pre-mades with the current optimal OP comp that are obsessed with personal > team scores. The stomping in those scenarios is dull and frustrating, and if I was a pure pve player, I’d have bailed by now.

They could remove that game mode where you just stand inside small circle.

Profession/build viability is one of the main contributing factors. GW2 is PAINFULLY unbalanced and people just rush from FOTM build to FOTM build to try and compensate. It’s obnoxious and very off putting honestly. People get so obsessive over which builds are “best” that professions like thief and warrior actually get bullied since they don’t fit the mold.

Don’t want to have to play tempest in order to enjoy my ele in pvp. Don’t want to play viper rev, or bunker mesmer either. Until they get it together and make more builds/professions viable then a lot of people will just roll their eyes at pvp.

A good start would be when people ask for help, to not troll them. I think the most off putting thing about PvP in this game is the community. And considering the meta that is impressive.

I think league badges were a step in the right direction since no one wants to be in the out-crowd lacking a cool tag.

“1. put in a way of dealing with/actually infracting verbally toxic players. My experience of the PvP community is the majority is either indifferent or incredibly toxic.
2. remove the viewable personal score, given too many people are obsessed with personal glory over team victory (a problem with a LOT of team based competitive games, not just GW2) – not just to the point they’re throwing games for extra personal points, but also abusing others over having lower scores for going objectives > kills.
3. split the PvE and PvP skills, and then do a massive rebalance of numbers for PvP (durations etc). Constantly wrecking PvE builds for ‘PvP balance’ and then still not having balance in either mode is laughable, and this would go a long way to solving it.
4. lower the burst across the board. The power creep has been ridiculous for some professions post June.
5. get a solo queue back in. Seriously. Doesn’t matter how skilled you are if you get matched with randoms all over the place vs pre-mades with the current optimal OP comp that are obsessed with personal > team scores. The stomping in those scenarios is dull and frustrating, and if I was a pure pve player, I’d have bailed by now.”

I agree with this except for number 1 because we are free to block anyway and The Mist just wouldn’t feel right without the occasional random and/or toxic map chat. I don’t contribute myself, just kinda chill practicing on the dummies (should be updated to elite specs), checking my bank and TP transactions, and queuing.

Agree with 4 somewhat but the bigger problem is spammable invulnerability, crowd control, and condition damage. If burst gets lowered too much then bunker would be even more powerful since damage would do less to defense.

For 2, 3, and 5 I agree so hard. I don’t like looking like a noob in some scoreboard when I was busy defending nodes, sometimes even winning 1v1’s but still not scoring the big mid brawl kills. I’ve been in games where I scored highest kills but still, all it means is you were at the right place at the right time and knew what to do. You could still technically score highest kills but others did most of the work, all that covers is whom you tagged.