Guild Wars 2

Make it only castable when enemy is in range or have LoS (or both), that way, it will still have the “same intended effect” at the same time not out manoeuvring what suppose to be the most mobile class in GW2, thief.

sorry if that has been suggested, this only just occured in my head~

Or make it so when you immob them while they are in ride the lightning they actually stop. Think you are counter playing them with that well timed immob? Guess again.

u cant criple and chill lightning, should u also be able to cripple,chill and imobillize teleport?

I don’t understand why players cannot accept mechanical differences between skills and want everything to be normalized. If Rtl were like other movement skills, then eles would be able to use utilities during Rtl just like Rush or Swoop. What does that introduce? Rtl + lightning flash up cliffs? Chilled/cripped before using Rtl —> cleansing flame during Rtl and still go the full distance. Rtl to target --> signet of earth to immobilize target during Rtl —> target can’t dodge the updraft combo. Be careful what you wish for.

Anyone suggesting Rtl requiring a target are simply mad an ele got away. No other movement/teleport skill requires this (except guardians, and it’s a teleport), and if escape is an issue, talk to thieves and mesmers as well. Ele get a lot of flak for this because of their strong bunkering capabilities, but maybe that’s the problem, and not mobility?

Cirax.9231:

I don’t understand why players cannot accept mechanical differences between skills and want everything to be normalized. If Rtl were like other movement skills, then eles would be able to use utilities during Rtl just like Rush or Swoop. What does that introduce? Rtl + lightning flash up cliffs? Chilled/cripped before using Rtl —> cleansing flame during Rtl and still go the full distance. Rtl to target --> signet of earth to immobilize target during Rtl —> target can’t dodge the updraft combo. Be careful what you wish for.

Anyone suggesting Rtl requiring a target are simply mad an ele got away. No other movement/teleport skill requires this (except guardians, and it’s a teleport), and if escape is an issue, talk to thieves and mesmers as well. Ele get a lot of flak for this because of their strong bunkering capabilities, but maybe that’s the problem, and not mobility?

What utilities are you using during rush or swoop that are not instant cast and usable at any instant anyway. The main complain of rtl is the ele cannot be affected by slows.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

What utilities are you using during rush or swoop that are not instant cast and usable at any instant anyway. The main complain of rtl is the ele cannot be affected by slows.

this is irelevant, ele is not able to use ANYTHING while RTL, he cant even stop, so its a two bladed sword, if you get immobilized before RTL or you aim wrong, you are stuck till RTL ends… and this must be compensated with something else…

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

What utilities are you using during rush or swoop that are not instant cast and usable at any instant anyway. The main complain of rtl is the ele cannot be affected by slows.

Yes, only instant casts can be cast during animations like shouts, some signets, and stances. It’s not the most useful thing in the world to be able to use these utilities during a movement skill, but the premise of players arguing for Rtl being affected by slows is because of skills like rush or swoop being affected by them. But in return, it would be bias if Rtl was changed to be affected by cripple without enabling eles to use utilities during the animation.

The nerf would be acceptable if utilities were enabled during rtl similar to other movement skills, but it could create worse problems with balance.

Not to mention, bunkering is the core problem and should be focused on for adjustments. OH dagger is used by other ele builds as well, and nerfing rtl further would worsen the state of the class that gravitates towards bunkering.

Elementalist is overpowered. RTL isn’t the reason for this, leave it as it is.

Varyag.3751:

Elementalist is overpowered. RTL isn’t the reason for this, leave it as it is.

It certainly doesn’t help that an overpowered class has a charge which ignores most of the rules that the other charges in the game operate under.

Sarrs.4831:

Varyag.3751:

Elementalist is overpowered. RTL isn’t the reason for this, leave it as it is.

It certainly doesn’t help that an overpowered class has a charge which ignores most of the rules that the other charges in the game operate under.

Read above for why Rtl is different, and what may happen if it were made similar to other movememt skills.

Another misconception: 0/10/0/30/30 build (+variations) & offhand dagger is OP. Eles have weak, underused trait lines.. like all the other professions.

Cirax.9231:

Read above for why Rtl is different, and what may happen if it were made similar to other movememt skills.

Another misconception: 0/10/0/30/30 build (+variations) & offhand dagger is OP. Eles have weak, underused trait lines.. like all the other professions.

You’ve listed a whole lot of, uh, things, which might involve skill to use. Which is a pretty important secondary objective when you’re making balance changes; to increase the amount of skill that can be invested.

My saying that “elementalists are OP” was a direct retort to the quoted post. Assuming that elementalists are indeed OP, would bringing into line one of their abilities which currently doesn’t operate under the same rules as other abilities in the same class be worthwhile?

Also, you’re completely wrong about the number of abilities that require a (hostile) target for you to use them as a teleport. Quickly reviewing the list on the wiki;

Flashing Blade
Judge’s Intervention
Infiltrator’s Signet
Infiltrator’s Strike
Shadow Shot
Shadow Strike
Shadow Pursuit
Steal
Dark Path

Tangentially, or requires a friendly target;
Illusionary Leap->Swap
Necrotic Traversal
Merciful Intervention

I’m sure I didn’t get them all, but you need to do your research. This is all meaningless, anyway; there’s a non-trivial distinction between a charge/rush attack and a teleport. Ride The Lightning is not a teleport. Do not compare it to a teleport. Do not think of it as a teleport. Compare it to Bull Rush. Dear Lord, think of the chaos you could do if Dark Path operated like Ride the Lightning.

I have moved away from the ele since the rtl nerf, and played against eles as other classes- ATM, rtl seems fine now with the longer cool down. They’re still good at running, but not op good at it like they were anymore

Sarrs.4831:

Cirax.9231:

Read above for why Rtl is different, and what may happen if it were made similar to other movememt skills.

Another misconception: 0/10/0/30/30 build (+variations) & offhand dagger is OP. Eles have weak, underused trait lines.. like all the other professions.

You’ve listed a whole lot of, uh, things, which might involve skill to use. Which is a pretty important secondary objective when you’re making balance changes; to increase the amount of skill that can be invested.

My saying that “elementalists are OP” was a direct retort to the quoted post. Assuming that elementalists are indeed OP, would bringing into line one of their abilities which currently doesn’t operate under the same rules as other abilities in the same class be worthwhile?

Also, you’re completely wrong about the number of abilities that require a (hostile) target for you to use them as a teleport. Quickly reviewing the list on the wiki;

Flashing Blade
Judge’s Intervention
Infiltrator’s Signet
Infiltrator’s Strike
Shadow Shot
Shadow Strike
Shadow Pursuit
Steal
Dark Path

Tangentially, or requires a friendly target;
Illusionary Leap->Swap
Necrotic Traversal
Merciful Intervention

I’m sure I didn’t get them all, but you need to do your research. This is all meaningless, anyway; there’s a non-trivial distinction between a charge/rush attack and a teleport. Ride The Lightning is not a teleport. Do not compare it to a teleport. Do not think of it as a teleport. Compare it to Bull Rush. Dear Lord, think of the chaos you could do if Dark Path operated like Ride the Lightning.

You’re correct about teleports I did not cover, but you are well aware my main focus was to compare Rtl to movement skills because players use this premise to argue for Rtl being affected by chill/cripple. I didn’t make any direct examples comparing rtl to teleports to justify my argument. I used rush and swoop as examples. You don’t need to go off on a huge tangent on teleports – that is clearly not the main topic here.

As I said before and I will mention again: if you want to bring Rtl in line with other similar abilities, then make all aspects the same, and this includes the use of utilities during animation. I don’t understand why players are so inclined to categorize every “similar” skill to have exactly the same mechanics. Variety keeps things interesting.

How would you go about making balance changes to increase the amount of skill invested? What makes something that takes skill in this game vs something that doesn’t? Let’s be honest, the technical aspect of this game isn’t rocket science – strategy and mind games are more important than worrying about how much skill a profession takes.

Cirax.9231:

You’re correct about teleports I did not cover, but you are well aware my main focus was to compare Rtl to movement skills because players use this premise to argue for Rtl being affected by chill/cripple. I didn’t make any direct examples comparing rtl to teleports to justify my argument. I used rush and swoop as examples. You don’t need to go off on a huge tangent on teleports – that is clearly not the main topic here.

If you’re going to make sweeping statements about abilities, it’s pretty important to make sure that your sweeping statements are actually correct. It might seem like an off-the-cuff remark to you, but it can seem like you’re practically shouting “I have no idea what I’m talking about!” to someone else.

As I said before and I will mention again: if you want to bring Rtl in line with other similar abilities, then make all aspects the same, and this includes the use of utilities during animation. I don’t understand why players are so inclined to categorize every “similar” skill to have exactly the same mechanics. Variety keeps things interesting.

Why are we operating under the assumption that I wouldn’t be okay with people using utilities while using RTL? Go nuts. If you can find synergies between a charge and an instant move, have at. That’ll add depth to the metagame, that’s good. Specifically on RTL+Signet of Earth→Updraft? That’s a very well telegraphed ability combo.

The flipside to “variety” is “what the hell are all the rules”. That’s why the distinction between a charge and a leap and a teleport is important. At the moment, the list of movement skill rulesets is limited to Charge/Leap(minor distinction between the two, that the player becomes airborne while leaping), Teleports, RTL, and you could make a case for Portal. You need to know, or you should need to know, how to deal with each of these. Is giving countering RTL its own strategy a reasonable distinction?

How would you go about making balance changes to increase the amount of skill invested? What makes something that takes skill in this game vs something that doesn’t? Let’s be honest, the technical aspect of this game isn’t rocket science – strategy and mind games are more important than worrying about how much skill a profession takes.

Strategy is an aspect of skill. Making intelligent(or unintelligent) decisions within the bounds of reaction time is what decides whether players are good or bad, before getting into physical training like APM. How many intelligent or unintelligent decisions decisions can you make with Ride the Lightning compared to a standard charge? How many intelligent or unintelligent decisions can a player make when trying to counter Ride the Lightning? What can a player do to deal with this, or make a hilarious miscalculation while trying to deal with this? How many “wrong times” are there to use RTL, and how many “wrong times” are there to use a charge skill?

Sarrs.4831:

If you’re going to make sweeping statements about abilities, it’s pretty important to make sure that your sweeping statements are actually correct. It might seem like an off-the-cuff remark to you, but it can seem like you’re practically shouting “I have no idea what I’m talking about!” to someone else.

Fair enough. You did claim in your previous post that I was comparing Rtl to teleports when I should be comparing to rush, when I actually did compare it to rush. However, I’m not going to disregard your whole post as “lol l2read” because your main argument still holds merit and is worth discussing.

Why are we operating under the assumption that I wouldn’t be okay with people using utilities while using RTL? Go nuts. If you can find synergies between a charge and an instant move, have at. That’ll add depth to the metagame, that’s good. Specifically on RTL+Signet of Earth->Updraft? That’s a very well telegraphed ability combo.

The flipside to “variety” is “what the hell are all the rules”. That’s why the distinction between a charge and a leap and a teleport is important. At the moment, the list of movement skill rulesets is limited to Charge/Leap(minor distinction between the two, that the player becomes airborne while leaping), Teleports, RTL, and you could make a case for Portal. You need to know, or you should need to know, how to deal with each of these. Is giving countering RTL its own strategy a reasonable distinction?

I believe the devs intended Rtl to be mechanically different, as Rtl actually gives you a visible indicator “lightning form”, and was discussed in elementalist bug patches where they had to fix how it didn’t lock out the taskbar properly. From here, it’s up to them to decide whether Rtl should continue to have its own mechanic or not. Portal’s unique mechanic forced its own counter strategies as well. In the end, both ended up getting nerfed.

Strategy is an aspect of skill. Making intelligent(or unintelligent) decisions within the bounds of reaction time is what decides whether players are good or bad, before getting into physical training like APM. How many intelligent or unintelligent decisions decisions can you make with Ride the Lightning compared to a standard charge? How many intelligent or unintelligent decisions can a player make when trying to counter Ride the Lightning? What can a player do to deal with this, or make a hilarious miscalculation while trying to deal with this? How many “wrong times” are there to use RTL, and how many “wrong times” are there to use a charge skill?

This is where the Rtl argument gets really muddy. Many players claim Rtl is a virtual get-out-of-jail free card and provide anecdotal evidence, but I have heard and experienced myself many ways to stop it as an ele and against an ele. Even if the ele gets Rtl off successfully, professions equipped with mobility can close the gap, or conditions like cripple/chill that actually linger after using Rtl can still make the ele vulnerable. Rtl is a strong skill, but I don’t think it is as invincible as many players claim, and there are just as many players who say they have no trouble dealing with it. A lot of things can happen before, during, after Rtl/rush, and the variety makes the difficulty of using those skills subjective to what the player has experienced.

This is where the Rtl argument gets really muddy. Many players claim Rtl is a virtual get-out-of-jail free card and provide anecdotal evidence, but I have heard and experienced myself many ways to stop it as an ele and against an ele. Even if the ele gets Rtl off successfully, professions equipped with mobility can close the gap, or conditions like cripple/chill that actually linger after using Rtl can still make the ele vulnerable. Rtl is a strong skill, but I don’t think it is as invincible as many players claim, and there are just as many players who say they have no trouble dealing with it. A lot of things can happen before, during, after Rtl/rush, and the variety makes the difficulty of using those skills subjective to what the player has experienced.

All those things you’ve listed that can hinder an otherwise successful escape with RTL do the exact same thing to a regular charge, or any teleport in the game. Unless your teleport (not to explicitly compare it to RTL, but as an escape tool in general; using a charge while slowed will make your escape very short lived w/o condition removal) has a condition removal effect I guess but if you want to make your RTL a flawless escape you could just sticky tape Cleansing Flame onto its butt.

As I see it, Ride the Lightning is for the most part a charge move, except just plain better. So much better, that its distinction over other charges can (though not always) dictate whether a fight ends with a successful retreat or a death, and the developers specifically noted that it was the kind of mobility that they intended for the Thief to have in the last SotG. Do elementalists really need to have that kind of special sauce for RTL to be a powerful move?

I think we seem to have gotten to the bottom of this, for the most part, so not really worth going on about it any more. It’s all pretty firmly out of our hands.

Rtl is kind of the only thing rely overshadowing offhand focus for a lot of builds imo. A nerf to it (even just range down from 1200-900) would be understandable. It’s worth noting that they increased the cooldown not too long ago, but that obviously didn’t do much – maybe they could try the “need a target” thing, then bringing the cooldown back down and keep the range where it’s at. That way a decent ele could still spam it to get across the map, just by using pve objectives and characters as anchors.

Sarrs.4831:

Varyag.3751:

Elementalist is overpowered. RTL isn’t the reason for this, leave it as it is.

It certainly doesn’t help that an overpowered class has a charge which ignores most of the rules that the other charges in the game operate under.

Thats like saying (keep in mind this is merely an example) that Warrior damage is overpowered so lets nerf their mobility.

Then you say that their mobility is completetly unrelated to their overpowered damage.

Then I say well it doesnt help that they have mobility.

See how dumb that sounds or should I try to explain it even more obvious?

this is ridiculous.Rtl is fine ..It certainly doesnt need target requirement and while being affected by cripple and chill is debateable it should require a big cd reduction then..so it can be in line with other spells.
Dont make suggestions that drop skills way down the line that is set by other skills.Thats not how balance works as far as im concerned

guza.6170:

u cant criple and chill lightning, should u also be able to cripple,chill and imobillize teleport?

RTL = a bigger gap closer
Lightning Flash = Stunbreaker / “Step”

They’re not the same type of skillz. RTL should be definitely affected by chill/cripple/immobilize, as other gap closers like Rush and Whirlwind allready do.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

guza.6170:

u cant criple and chill lightning, should u also be able to cripple,chill and imobillize teleport?

RTL = a bigger gap closer
Lightning Flash = Stunbreaker / “Step”

They’re not the same type of skillz. RTL should be definitely affected by chill/cripple/immobilize, as other gap closers like Rush and Whirlwind allready do.

rtl is not the same as leaps and charges. Its a unique skill with a unique mechanic, case closed.

guza.6170:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

guza.6170:

u cant criple and chill lightning, should u also be able to cripple,chill and imobillize teleport?

RTL = a bigger gap closer
Lightning Flash = Stunbreaker / “Step”

They’re not the same type of skillz. RTL should be definitely affected by chill/cripple/immobilize, as other gap closers like Rush and Whirlwind allready do.

rtl is not the same as leaps and charges. Its a unique skill with a unique mechanic, case closed.

It is still meant to be one cause you are able to target attack. The only difference is that you’re 5 weapon skillz are locked in its duration. Case closed.

Let it be affected by chill/cripple/immobilize but by swiftness as well, if you really want to normalize it.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

guza.6170:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

guza.6170:

u cant criple and chill lightning, should u also be able to cripple,chill and imobillize teleport?

RTL = a bigger gap closer
Lightning Flash = Stunbreaker / “Step”

They’re not the same type of skillz. RTL should be definitely affected by chill/cripple/immobilize, as other gap closers like Rush and Whirlwind allready do.

rtl is not the same as leaps and charges. Its a unique skill with a unique mechanic, case closed.

It is still meant to be one cause you are able to target attack. The only difference is that you’re 5 weapon skillz are locked in its duration. Case closed.

by that logic so is lightning flash and flashing blade.

guza.6170:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

guza.6170:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

guza.6170:

u cant criple and chill lightning, should u also be able to cripple,chill and imobillize teleport?

RTL = a bigger gap closer
Lightning Flash = Stunbreaker / “Step”

They’re not the same type of skillz. RTL should be definitely affected by chill/cripple/immobilize, as other gap closers like Rush and Whirlwind allready do.

rtl is not the same as leaps and charges. Its a unique skill with a unique mechanic, case closed.

It is still meant to be one cause you are able to target attack. The only difference is that you’re 5 weapon skillz are locked in its duration. Case closed.

by that logic so is lightning flash and flashing blade.

The offical description: "Ride the lightning to your FOE, then strike all nearby foes with an electrical burst. "

It’s intended to be a gap-closer by A-Net and its description. That’s what I want to point out.

RTL castable on target only, like mesmer’s illusions and phantasms or flashing blade, steal, judge’s intervention, infiltrator’s strike, leap…and pretty much every long range (even shorter than rtl) gap closer. Done.

Archaon.6245:

RTL castable on target only.

Done

lol no..pretty muchthe death this spell and eles mobility altogether.
d/d from high mobility setup becomes even slower than a mesm using phase retreat wen it comes to roaming..Not to mention the crap you take on wvw/pve players when they said they ar only gonna change numbers when it comes to skills
lol

Archaon.6245:

RTL castable on target only, like mesmer’s illusions and phantasms.

Done

This would result in making the meta-ele nearly unviable, as rtl without the need of a target is the only thing because this class is working in tpvp.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Archaon.6245:

RTL castable on target only, like mesmer’s illusions and phantasms.

Done

This would result in making the meta-ele nearly unviable, as rtl without the need of a target is the only thing because this class is working in tpvp.

They could still bunker and dps, they could still approach a contested point with a target with rtl…it would only bring down the ele “Oh crap rtl away for your life then heal up and go back” troll playstyle (That i consider ele’s major issue atm along with valkirye spec) and the ability to cross the whole map in 5 seconds….seems fair enough to me, they would still be much faster than other bunker specs aswell as mesmers for example but they would need a target to do so…with less mobility than thieves on roaming, how it should be since anet clearly stated that thief is intended to be the best roaming class…they would work anyway imo, just a bit more fair maybe..

Sarrs.8371

As I see it, Ride the Lightning is for the most part a charge move, except just plain better. So much better, that its distinction over other charges can (though not always) dictate whether a fight ends with a successful retreat or a death, and the developers specifically noted that it was the kind of mobility that they intended for the Thief to have in the last SotG. Do elementalists really need to have that kind of special sauce for RTL to be a powerful move?

While I agree Rtl has some advantages compared to other charges, it isn’t that much more powerful such that its mobility is unrivalled. Perhaps, the unique mechanic was a dev decision as a result of a profession having the lowest base hp/armor with the x/d weapon set being virtually melee. However, this is shadowed by the fact ele bunkers are too powerful, so rtl feels too strong. Once ele bunkering has been nerfed (it is still on dev’s watchlist), then we can get a better perspective of Rtl.

haviz.1340:

Let it be affected by chill/cripple/immobilize but by swiftness as well, if you really want to normalize it.

And the use of the utility bar, just like other charge moves. A lot of players don’t think things through thoroughly when asking for balance changes. Normalizing Rtl may create more mobility superiority.

- affected by chill/cripple? Wouldn’t be hard to cleanse as an ele, and switching to air before using Rtl with a 10 point arcana trait gives them swiftness. Swiftness affects charge moves, so now Rtl goes 1600 range instead of 1200.

- Rtl + lightning flash during Rtl… the skill now has a verical advantage.

Normalizing Rtl can actually help eles work around the cripple/chill disadvantage, and travel an even greater distance…

Ride the Lightning is my favorite Metallica album, favorite elemental skill not so much.

Archaon.6245:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Archaon.6245:

RTL castable on target only, like mesmer’s illusions and phantasms.

Done

This would result in making the meta-ele nearly unviable, as rtl without the need of a target is the only thing because this class is working in tpvp.

They could still bunker and dps, they could still approach a contested point with a target with rtl…it would only bring down the ele “Oh crap rtl away for your life then heal up and go back” troll playstyle (That i consider ele’s major issue atm) and the ability to cross the whole map in 5 seconds….seems fair enough to me, they would still be much faster than other bunker specs…with less mobility than thieves on roaming, how it should be…they would work anyway imo, just a bit more fair maybe..

They could do everything they want. If it’s viable anymore is a different question.
RTL with a target makes elementalist not a faster roamer compared to a guard that use sword-port / judges intervention.
For me personally, nerf rtl is not the way to balance it.

kostbabis.8791:

Archaon.6245:

RTL castable on target only.

Done

lol no..pretty muchthe death this spell and eles mobility altogether.
d/d from high mobility setup becomes even slower than a mesm using phase retreat wen it comes to roaming..Not to mention the crap you take on wvw/pve players when they said they ar only gonna change numbers when it comes to skills
lol

They can split pvp and pve skills as they did with many others so it wouldn’t affect wvsw but only s-tpvp

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Archaon.6245:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Archaon.6245:

RTL castable on target only, like mesmer’s illusions and phantasms.

Done

This would result in making the meta-ele nearly unviable, as rtl without the need of a target is the only thing because this class is working in tpvp.

They could still bunker and dps, they could still approach a contested point with a target with rtl…it would only bring down the ele “Oh crap rtl away for your life then heal up and go back” troll playstyle (That i consider ele’s major issue atm) and the ability to cross the whole map in 5 seconds….seems fair enough to me, they would still be much faster than other bunker specs…with less mobility than thieves on roaming, how it should be…they would work anyway imo, just a bit more fair maybe..

They could do everything they want. If it’s viable anymore is a different question.
RTL with a target makes elementalist not a faster roamer compared to a guard that use sword-port / judges intervention.
For me personally, nerf rtl is not the way to balance it.

Judge’s intervention is an utility skill…so if you compare flashing blade+judge’s intervention with rtl+lightning flash you get pretty much the same effect…with lightning flash requiring no target….so the ele chain would probably be still better…allowing you to “free target” roam more than a guardian…as a guardian you just have one swift on staff (That is not a must have weapon), one on a 60 sec cd shout (10sec) and one on Retreat (20sec) that is just a waste for an utility slot…nothing else for guardian’s free roaming..

Archaon.6245:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Archaon.6245:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Archaon.6245:

RTL castable on target only, like mesmer’s illusions and phantasms.

Done

This would result in making the meta-ele nearly unviable, as rtl without the need of a target is the only thing because this class is working in tpvp.

They could still bunker and dps, they could still approach a contested point with a target with rtl…it would only bring down the ele “Oh crap rtl away for your life then heal up and go back” troll playstyle (That i consider ele’s major issue atm) and the ability to cross the whole map in 5 seconds….seems fair enough to me, they would still be much faster than other bunker specs…with less mobility than thieves on roaming, how it should be…they would work anyway imo, just a bit more fair maybe..

They could do everything they want. If it’s viable anymore is a different question.
RTL with a target makes elementalist not a faster roamer compared to a guard that use sword-port / judges intervention.
For me personally, nerf rtl is not the way to balance it.

Judge’s intervention is an utility skill…so if you compare flashing blade+judge’s intervention with rtl+lightning flash you get pretty much the same effect…with lightning flash requiring no target….so the ele chain would probably be still better…allowing you to “free target” roam more than a guardian

Convinced. Still an ele has no chance to get out of combat without rtl. while it’s much easier to running away with a guard.

Archaon.6245:

Judge’s intervention is an utility skill…so if you compare flashing blade+judge’s intervention with rtl+lightning flash you get pretty much the same effect…with lightning flash requiring no target….so the ele chain would probably be still better…allowing you to “free target” roam more than a guardian…as a guardian you just have one swift on staff (That is not a must have weapon), one on a 60 sec cd shout (10sec) and one on Retreat (20sec) that is just a waste for an utility slot…nothing else for guardian’s free roaming..

Isn’t it the general idea that eles are more of a roamer than guardians, but guardians apply more pressure on point? That defines one of the big differences in bunkering between an ele and a guardian.

Cirax.9231:

And the use of the utility bar, just like other charge moves.

Is Rush an utility skill? Swoop?

haviz.1340:

Cirax.9231:

And the use of the utility bar, just like other charge moves.

Is Rush an utility skill? Swoop?

I meant you are able to use utility moves during rush or swoop.
If Rtl were to be made mechanically similar to rush or swoop, you should be able to use utilities during Rtl.

Only 50 percent range if no target with line of sight. Atm they are running around like crazy and are unstoppable if it is about capping stuff especially if they also use stabilty(I think from that earth armor skill which luckily has some higher cd).

What’s this nonsense about RTL needing a target?

Some people just take things too far, heh. It’s like you want to take every weakness you can think of and add it to RTL, in an attempt to not make it comparable to other movement skills but to make it BY FAR THE WORST.

yeah its ridiculous.. if these guys where responsible for balancing the ele would be in a state far far worse than warrior

There are several threads about this topic already. You don’t need to create a new one every single time. Thanks.

Ride the lightning should be affected by cripple/chill/immob, but you should be allowed to use utils/abilities during the ride.