Guild Wars 2

Sup guys.
The burst/AoE/bunker nerf is incoming, and they’ll go all the way with it, for a long time, till they think things gets fixed.

Now this is good and all, but the thief, currently, has very little options to be competitive in tourneys, and a burst nerf would almost toally destroy this class.

Those ones are some ideas about thief general balance, in order to make more builds available to the thief, nerfing what is necessary and buffing what seriously needs it.

I’ll start with something general, then go into specific with every weapon set.

Please don’t troll, flame , or make ignorant posts, i’m not going to waste my time with them.

Thank you for your time.

Stealth
Capping stealth to 8 secs. This in order to make insta kill combos from stealth ( Backstab-> mug mid cast) more difficult to be pulled.
This would also reduce P/D thieves griefing against other players ( not fun for them, really).

Mug
Mug damage nerfed by 33%.
Too much rewards for a T1 trait. It should stay as a T1 trait, but damage needs to be reduced.
This would make the insta kill from stealth less rewarding and nerf thief burst damage.

• Dagger MH*

Heartseeker
Change the executioner stuff.
Make this skill to have a standard damage ( fixed around <50% health damage) and make this skill to have X% more damage when used from behind or the side ( i would go for a 20% damage increase), reducing overall burst damage but having it to be also a Sustained DPS option.

Numbers are off to be balanced ( maybe reducing a bit standard damage and increase the positional benefit) but you got the idea.
The positional requirment would make this skill less a “no brainer” and more a “use it when needed”.

Dagger OH

Revert C&D nerf
This nerf only damaged sustained DPS builds, that are already quite weak and uneffective.
This should be reverted at least fro 25 % damage ( the nerf was 33%)

Dancing Dagger
The nerf was brutal, but justified.
But, right now, this skill has no purpose.
Either slightly buff its damage or reduce its ini cost to 3, or increase again its damage and reduce bouncing to 2 max.
Really, it has no purpose.

Pistol MH
Any idea is welcome. I really don’t play it , Body shot is horrible and overall it’s very badly designed.

Pistol OH

Head shot
Increase head shot damage to match with a current >50 % health Heartseeker.
Simply to increase sustained DPS, nothing more.

Black powder shot
Increase sliightly the radius of the combo field.

Sword MH

Tactical strike

Revert the nerf, fix daze duration cap like it should have been from the start ( 2.5 secs with a 33% increase with mesmer runes).

The main issue with the brutal nerf on it was aNet being wrong with roundings.

Both Sigil of paralyzation and Mesmer runes ( respectively +15 % and + 33% daze duration) rounded TS to 3 secs ( lolwut, viva la math), and it was OP as hell.

Now with 2 secs MAX, you don’t have the actual time to gain benefit for it, in a set that is not capable to burst.

2.5 secs daze duration would be balanced for a move that requires positioning, stealth and is not an instant interrupt.

TS and OH dagger nerf simply removed D/D balanced build and S/D builds from the meta, making the thief proff polarized into burst.

Ridicolous.

Ridicolous indeed.

Dual skills

Shadow shot (D/P)

Remove the root to Shadow Stab, increase slightly the damage, in order to make it a bit more powerful than a >50% health HS ( the way it is now).

the main reasoning here is because Shadow shot doesn’t get benefits from sinergy with Black Powder Shot, doesn’t really work as a gap closer due to auto-rooting, covers the gap closing role with HS while being overall worse, and costs too much ini.

you’re better off using BPS + HS almost always.

With the suggested HS it would be better in most cases ( more damage, better gap closer) and you would use HS only when in conjuntion with BPS ( to gain stealth) or when you meet the positioning requirments ( in order to gain the positioning damage benefit)

Flanking stike (S/D)

Just give the evade full duration during the animation, and make the animation quickier.

Problem solved.

Shadow strike (P/D) * Unload (P/P)* and MH pistol outlook

Clearly this move is thought for PvE, clearly it’s meant for power builds ( way subpar with the brutal OH damage nerf).

Overall the main problem is that every build revolving around MH pistol, or totally ignores eevrything aside C&D + main attack, or solely revolves around Unloading+ blinds and interrupts.

The problem is MH pistol above everything, and Shadow strike is correlated with it.

Devs should find some way to make those sets up to par, and balance P/D in order to make every move good, or at least to have various build with it ( the power based P/D build was also demolished with the OH dagger brutal nerf, but it wasn’t really up to par anyway).

Pistol whip

It’s more eaily countered by retaliation, armor, protection and all the defensive stuff.

Still, it’s less effective than a backstab.

Simply increase its damage in order to be SLIGHTLY better than autoattacks. With OH pistol buffs proposed, we would start seeing pistol whipping thieves a little more ( i don’t really care, i find S/P thieves way boring, but it’s better to have options rather than the opposite).

General thoughts on traits

overall, what is really killing the thief, making only one build with slightly variations viable, is that there is too much trait scaling on the first tiers, and that executioner trait.

Shift those first tiers traits somewhere else or remove them, give us more options. Practiced tolerance ( crit strike VI ) is a good example.

It would be too hard to go deep with a trait discussion, but we already know whose those traits are.

thief traits have almost no sinergy, aside few ones, and we see them in basically any thief build ( lel, a couple).

Something needs to be changed.

Thanks for the reading.

What do you mean the burst/aoe/bunker nerf is incoming? its today/tonight?

Eduardo.4675:

What do you mean the burst/aoe/bunker nerf is incoming? its today/tonight?

Going forward
Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.
AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

from https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post1061889

Mrbig.8019:

Eduardo.4675:

What do you mean the burst/aoe/bunker nerf is incoming? its today/tonight?

Going forward
Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.
AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

from https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post1061889

Do you still believe in fairy tales?

Marduh.4603:

Mrbig.8019:

Eduardo.4675:

What do you mean the burst/aoe/bunker nerf is incoming? its today/tonight?

Going forward
Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.
AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

from https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post1061889

Do you still believe in fairy tales?

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Santa died.

Thanks god you put it in spoilers

anyway, there’s no reason to not believe it.

And it’s not the topic: my proposed changes are.

Let me get this right.
Nerf mug 33%, but bring back the 30% dmg CnD used to have?
So how much is really changing Mrbig…nothing much. So what’s the point? You want to reduce the burst, but you revert Cnd…wot?

ensoriki.5789:

Let me get this right.
Nerf mug 33%, but bring back the 30% dmg CnD used to have?
So how much is really changing Mrbig…nothing much. So what’s the point? You want to reduce the burst, but you revert Cnd…wot?

pretty simple.

A simple C&D-Mug-backstab is easy to avoid.

No decent opponent would ever get caught by that unless ALL his defensive CDs are down. And anyway, you’ve enough time to react.

Both in s(crub)PvP and tPvP.

This is not valid for Backstab -> Mug combo from stealth.

You can’t see it coming.

It’s istant.

It deals more than 12 k damage on medium toughness opponents. Even more with some gimmicky set up, even more with might/vulnerability, even more with bloodlust.

That is the real kitten.

And anyway, you should see the whole design. Heartseeker won’t deal as much damage as now ( even with positional requirments, its damage would still be a bit less than currently) , and it won’t be as easy as it easy know to finish a player off.

P.S.

Ah anyway….

Mug base power is higher than C&D pre-nerf.

In term of damage reduction, it would deal less damage than now.

if you are stealthed and you combo someone, the mug damage trigger the reveal debuff, so cnd won’t stealth u again so you wont use bs, so comboing by stealth is a fail

Shukran.4851:

if you are stealthed and you combo someone, the mug damage trigger the reveal debuff, so cnd won’t stealth u again so you wont use bs, so comboing by stealth is a fail

i said i won’t bother with ignorance.

backstab → mug mid cast is perfectly possible, and you NEED to be in stealth in order to do it.

I just need to say one thing … LOL! …done.

Fix the flawed mechanic pre cast backstab + steal. nuff said.

leashmaygoss.2140:

Fix the flawed mechanic pre cast backstab + steal. nuff said.

Oh yes, and how the would the thief be supposed to burst without mug precasting ?

Again, i’m all in favor to reduce the burst, but removing pre-casting would destroy the only way to burst as a thief.

TONE DOWN its numbers, but don’t remove it.

And without burst, the thief desperately needs more options.

Mrbig.8019:

leashmaygoss.2140:

Fix the flawed mechanic pre cast backstab + steal. nuff said.

Oh yes, and how the would the thief be supposed to burst without mug precasting ?

Again, i’m all in favor to reduce the burst, but removing pre-casting would destroy the only way to burst as a thief.

TONE DOWN its numbers, but don’t remove it.

And without burst, the thief desperately needs more options.

Shadow step? I’m all in favor of removing precast from steal, that or remove the teleport from it (which would be worse though since it would affect more builds). The burst damage isn’t a much of an annoyance as the fact that it can be done without warning (other classes can also do high bursts but you can see them coming). As has been mentioned in other topics, the reason so many people complain about thieves in pvp has probably got more to do with them being annoying/boring/not fun to fight against rather than the bursts. Bursts are a problem but that goes for all bursts build classes (mesmers got hit hard in the latest patch, hopefully more classes will follow).

I would love to see the Thief become a Thief again, instead of the Assassin class that it currently is.

The major issue with the Thief seems to be stealth. I think Revealed should be applied after going out of stealth, no matter if it’s by breaking or time out. The Revealed time should then be two seconds instead of three. This would make stealth into what it was originally designed to be; a tool that helps you avoid damage for a short period of time. Thereby making movement the focus, instead of stealth itself.

leashmaygoss.2140:

Fix the flawed mechanic pre cast backstab + steal. nuff said.

Apparently, this is intentional as stated by devs in a thread here on these forums…..can’t find the thread atm to link. They want you to be able to cast any instant during the casting animation of an ability with a cast time.

Adaneshade.2409:

leashmaygoss.2140:

Fix the flawed mechanic pre cast backstab + steal. nuff said.

Apparently, this is intentional as stated by devs in a thread here on these forums…..can’t find the thread atm to link. They want you to be able to cast any instant during the casting animation of an ability with a cast time.

Yeah, it’s intentional (the post should be in a thread in the thief forum IIRC, title something about internal CDs) but that doesn’t mean it’s good.

Kasama.8941:

I would love to see the Thief become a Thief again, instead of the Assassin class that it currently is.

The major issue with the Thief seems to be stealth. I think Revealed should be applied after going out of stealth, no matter if it’s by breaking or time out. The Revealed time should then be two seconds instead of three. This would make stealth into what it was originally designed to be; a tool that helps you avoid damage for a short period of time. Thereby making movement the focus, instead of stealth itself.

The point is that currently going glass cannon is too rewarding, when compared to other options.

A thief can’t really build for support, our control build was destroyed in 15 november patch, and our balanced dps builds got slaugthered as well in the same day.

Our condition builds rely on stealth, and you can’t really benefit your team in any way: people will simply leave you fighting along for 1-2 minute against a single enemy, on a node you won’t be able to cap ( because stealth prevents capping).

We have no other options, and it’s mostly due to some design flaws in our weapons and our traits being overall very bad for competitive play ( shadow arts, acro and trickery offer very little, aside few exceptions) and overall the class has very little versatility.

Simply nerfing burst to reduce players frustration is not enough, because it would do nothing than simply remove the thief from any competitive environment.

That’s the reasoning behind my suggestions.