Guild Wars 2

I have played thief for around 100+ hours in sPvP in the last month so i do have some experience with the class but not that much. My issue with the class is that it seems to push for a glass cannon build on sPvP, and it is really hard not to. By glass cannon, i mean a 30/30/x/x/x build ( or 25/30/x/x/x ).

First i would like to explain how i currently play sPvP: i run behind walls and objects as often as i can (both to not be seen and break line of sight ), try to go to the fartest point to take (since thief has nice mobility), wait untill there is only one person, attack him before he notices me trying to insta gib, net the point and repeat. If my team is winning (with most points capped), i try to intercept people trying to get somewhere (either reinforcements or trying to cap points). If the enemy isnt a burst build as well and isnt dead yet, i usually switch to shortbow and try to finish it ranged. If all goes south, i shadow refuge / stealth in some way and run away with sb#5. This usually means i win 1v1, or at least do not die. It also works decently well on 2v1 scenarios ( i usually stomp 1 and run from the other )

The thing is that i would actually like to have decent fights instead of just ganking on the unaware. In WvW, i do run a different build with 10/30/30, which makes fights a lot more interesting and lasting. The issue is that shadow arts is actually very bad in sPvP, since you cant cap points in stealth and it takes a lot to heal yourself up, which means 1 less active player for your team during that period. Also the loss of offense makes it actually easier for the enemy to kill you, since you havent done enough damage on them to get defensive and panic / heal up.

Conditions build on a thief seems pretty hard since we have basically 1 condition to actual deal some damage with (poison and torment dont do jack), making it very easy to counter. Because of necros, a lot of players now run with some sort of cleanse, making it even harder for cond thiefs. I’ve played very little with cond builds, around 10 hours in sPvP, so feel free to correct me if im dead wrong.

I have seen a boon steal build on duel servers, but havent tried it yet. What are other viable thief build for sPvP, and how do you play them / how do they work?

Shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth and so on

Just plug in soldier amulet.

ensoriki.5789:

Just plug in soldier amulet.

As ridiculous as it sounds im actually going to try it ;p. Just swaping major trait for 100% crit on stealth since crit chance gets significally lower (25%), and see how it goes

http://intothemists.com/guides/5-cruuks_decapitation_build

Shadow arts is actually the best for farpoint assualt imo

This build can beat anything 1v1 and has the ability to survive against 1v2-3-4-5 if needed

Its also got the biggest burst as far as thief builds go (well 10/30/30 does but this is close)

Also does really well single target damage in teamfights since you can backstab over and over compared to the 25/30/0/0/15 builds that cna only burst once and then run away and hide up top with shortbow. You also have cleave with pistol whip or shortbow if u wanna run that instead

As far as stealth and the capping of points if your fighting a squishy then dont worry about the point and go for the kill
if your fighting a tankier class just hold the nute with black powders until they send 1 back to help

Btw if a thief isnt running shadow trap and a 1v2 spec they arent doing it right anymore imo

The thief role has changed with shadow trap whether they like it or not.

I’ve tried soldier amulet instead of zerker, and it already made quite a difference, i feel more useful in team fights and still can stomp people. Damage has gone down a bit, so it doesnt fare well against guard / ele bunker, but it seems ok against other classes/builds.

I am going to try you build now official! Can you do the 4 HS inside a blackpowder? No matter how much i’ve tried i never succeed XD (3 is okay though)

By the way, watching your channel right now, you better do well

I play a 0/30/10/30/0 Thief that I stole from someone a while back with minor changes. It uses S/D and Shorbow, and similarly to what you mentioned in the OP, S/D’s 3 skill steals boons, which makes dueling a lot easier.

Build Here

I can’t stand Cruuk’s build, as I think the playstyle is really choppy, and I get bored easily. This allows for 1v1 skirmishes over the point, and results in a lot more fluid playstyle that just feels a lot less dirty than D/P thief.

its not an easy build to play what so ever. So i can see why people dont give it a chance and try and trash talk it like isylvir but the skill cap is going to be much better than any other spec imo once you get it down. s/d Just isnt that great anymore to be honest with the condi meta. Even jumpers team tried getting him to run my spec.

Also soldiers ammy is really good in this spec as long as ur not facing a heavy condi team its prolly better to start out with soldier ammy with beserker jewel in it then once u get used to the playstyle u can switch to beserker to get more damage

lol I can see why people hate that build, but I think it’s awesome.

I think anyone can be happy with someone who scares the crap out of their home point guy on their team.

Edit: Also playing S/D makes me want to take a shower with all that evade spamming.

First of all, thief is a profession built for burst damage and mobility. This means that glass cannon builds are what we excel at. We have no trouble getting away if things go wrong (even without stealth) and we can deliver punches that they feel in their bones. Thief has ton of survivability with blinds, evades, stealth and shadowsteps – use them all. We’re basically made with one idea in mind: quickly in and burst our enemy, retreat – repeat.

I’ve played around with sword / pistol builds lately and I gotta say that I love them! Knights/berseker trinket, lyssa runes, 0/30/0/25/15 with withdraw, shadowstep, infiltrator signet and signet of agility. Lots of survivability and nice damage. I can basically jump in the middle of it all and still survive :p

official.4658:

http://intothemists.com/guides/5-cruuks_decapitation_build

Shadow arts is actually the best for farpoint assualt imo

This build can beat anything 1v1 and has the ability to survive against 1v2-3-4-5 if needed

Its also got the biggest burst as far as thief builds go (well 10/30/30 does but this is close)

Also does really well single target damage in teamfights since you can backstab over and over compared to the 25/30/0/0/15 builds that cna only burst once and then run away and hide up top with shortbow. You also have cleave with pistol whip or shortbow if u wanna run that instead

As far as stealth and the capping of points if your fighting a squishy then dont worry about the point and go for the kill
if your fighting a tankier class just hold the nute with black powders until they send 1 back to help

Btw if a thief isnt running shadow trap and a 1v2 spec they arent doing it right anymore imo

The thief role has changed with shadow trap whether they like it or not.

This spec strikes me as the epitome of cheese.

That’s not to say it isn’t effective (How could it not be?) or easy to play (It certainly isn’t), but it’s just like…you ported a standard perma-stealth thief into GW2, when it clearly wasn’t designed for it.

I fully understand why someone would take it – it’s obviously highly effective once you get it down, and in a competitive game, you take the best spec you can play. But if this is how thief is expected to be played, I can’t wait til they fix the class – it actively makes me want to play a different class, and I’ve loved thief since beta.

control effect > burst will get him if you time it right. The trick is timing it right haha.

Love the paralyzation sigil in that build. Nice waste of a sigil slot, since neither Head Shot nor Tactical Strike are affected by it unless you play WvW.

and how is that build cheese have u seen s/d play???? im using skill to win what about that is cheese

i posted a edit on the paralyzation sigil if u would have looked…. i run the condi removal sigil instead ofcourse u can use fire or w /e if u want too

Here ya go.

http://intothemists.com/guides/293-sd_heavy_boonsteal_harassment_thief_by_arga

I don’t know about Cruuk’s build, given that he runs zerker amulet, stealth, etc, but he is a good player. Just try out whichever build you prefer.

official.4658:

and how is that build cheese have u seen s/d play???? im using skill to win what about that is cheese

i posted a edit on the paralyzation sigil if u would have looked…. i run the condi removal sigil instead ofcourse u can use fire or w /e if u want too

They don’t know. I run a acrobatics version but may switch to SA. 10 SA has been enough for me

Btw about Cruuk’s build… Hidden Killer has always been an absolutely fascinating trait for me, on so many different levels. That he runs it may give his build a lot of legitimacy as what you’re looking for.

official.4658:

and how is that build cheese have u seen s/d play???? im using skill to win what about that is cheese

i posted a edit on the paralyzation sigil if u would have looked…. i run the condi removal sigil instead ofcourse u can use fire or w /e if u want too

It’s 100% cheese – the spec is designed to live in stealth, regenerating and dropping conditions, and threaten positions with an implied threat. Like I said, it’s like you took a standard MMO rogue with permastealth and ported it as best you could to GW2, which clearly wasn’t designed for it.

That isn’t meant to be insulting – I never said the build was bad (in fact, I said it was probably the best for winning, which is the point of competitive games) or that it was easy (it clearly isn’t). Bravo for thinking of it, and more power to you for playing it so well.

Personally, I was attracted to GW2 thief specifically because it didn’t have perma-stealth, which I thought was a nice change of pace from standard MMO rogue archtypes. It’s sad (to me) that one of the best specs (if not the best) available for thief players is based around nigh perma-stealth. I would prefer the class be built around something else, but that’s just me.

S/D is hard to pin down and frustrating to fight, but it’s still intended to work with the rules in spirit.

Everything u listed was something they knew about (condi removal / regen in stealth / initiave regain for stacking perma stealth) and the implied threat with stealth is all meant to be in this game since its clearly in the traits and designed to do so. And perma stealth in game that requires you not to stay in stealth to win doesnt seem to be useful unless im creating that sweet spot of damage and stealth regen which is counterable with a simple interrupt which wastes all my imitative mid heartseeker.

So for me to stay in perma stealth means im doing absolutely nothing

I’m not calling it broken, or unfair. I was interested in GW2 precisely because thief was presented as an escape from the old Assassinate/Backstab style WoW rogue. I was expecting strong specs that used stealth as a supplement, not as the main offensive AND defensive focus of the entire build. Looking at your build, its obvious I’m going to have a tough time running anything that competes with it on the same level, and that’s depressing for me, because I don’t like the play style at all. Your guide specifically points out that the game play is built around 3 skills (BP, HS and BS) and sitting in stealth whenever you need to.

Hopefully they’ll make some changes to thief in the coming months that gives it a way to compete without being so stealth reliant. S/D has had some major strides in the last few months, hopefully they’ll keep it up.

its not build around 3 skills at all i use headshot and shadow shot all the time for the reason i put in there. And there are lots of thief builds that are just as viable without perma stealth i used to run s/p 0/15/30/25/0 effectively back in the day pre haste nerf and same with the d/p 25/30/0/0/15 build theres also a d/p 10/30/0/0/30 build that does great. As well as s/d.

Like i said above perma stealth isnt going to help you unless you are creating that sweet spot of dps and regen

Why do u even play thief if ur not ganna use stealth offensively and defensively. Sounds like you need to quit qqing and find another class imo

official.4658:

its not build around 3 skills at all i use headshot and shadow shot all the time for the reason i put in there. And there are lots of thief builds that are just as viable without perma stealth i used to run s/p 0/15/30/25/0 effectively back in the day pre haste nerf and same with the d/p 25/30/0/0/15 build theres also a d/p 10/30/0/0/30 build that does great. As well as s/d.

Like i said above perma stealth isnt going to help you unless you are creating that sweet spot of dps and regen

Why do u even play thief if ur not ganna use stealth offensively and defensively. Sounds like you need to quit qqing and find another class imo

Who’s QQing? I didn’t realize not liking your playstyle was analogous to complaining. Perhaps you might try being less defensive? Especially when all I’m saying is I personally don’t like your specs playstyle, while still acknowledging how strong it can be.

I’m attracted to the less stealthy side of thief. I’m fine with using stealth offensively and defensively, I’m just not a fan of it being the absolute focus of the spec like it is in yours. Also, what do the specs that used to run but have dropped in favor of this one have to do with my opinion of this one?

Whats this 10/30/0/0/30 spec you mentioned?

LOL im Literally the only one who uses this spec at top lvl pvp and your saying that it is the only route and that it is cheese. Obviously im going to defend someone saying a skillful spec is cheese when u clearly dont understand what is viable in pvp. My spec is a far point spec which requires being able to survive 1v2-3s and break off when neccessary. If you dont like stealth then run s/d no ones stopping you and no ones saying that it is less viable. Its all play-style preference and for you to say that my spec is cheese and that s/d is not is obviously going to annoy me. Be my guest run a perma evasion spec and ignore the perma stealth. All the other specs i listed are still very usable and lots of others besides the s/p one because of the haste nerf

official.4658:

LOL im Literally the only one who uses this spec at top lvl pvp and your saying that it is the only route and that it is cheese. Obviously im going to defend someone saying a skillful spec is cheese when u clearly dont understand what is viable in pvp. My spec is a far point spec which requires being able to survive 1v2-3s and break off when neccessary. If you dont like stealth then run s/d no ones stopping you and no ones saying that it is less viable. Its all play-style preference and for you to say that my spec is cheese and that s/d is not is obviously going to annoy me. Be my guest run a perma evasion spec and ignore the perma stealth. All the other specs i listed are still very usable and lots of others besides the s/p one because of the haste nerf

Being cheesy is practically a requirement for top level specs – Cheese doesn’t mean it’s easy to play or ineffective (as I pointed out, oh, a dozen times), just that it’s, you know, cheesy. Whether or not you like the label, it’s clearly what it is. Cheese wins alot of games, GW2 is no different.

S/D is pretty clearly less viable IMO – It’s tools for surviving 1v2-3’s aren’t as good, and it’s not as easy to escape/reset a fight, and doesn’t have the same burst, or any blinds. Who knows, maybe that assumption of mine is wrong.

I’m sorry that other people’s opinions, politely offered, annoy you – you should probably work on that, it’s not a good quality.

great explaination of cheesy ( just that it’s you know , cheesy)… If my spec is soo cheesy why am i literally the only one who plays it. O right because its a tought spec to play to do well in. Basically what your definition of cheese is is a classes playstyle that you dont like. Not that it is OP while doing nothing skillful to win. (which is basically everyone elses meaning for a cheesy spec in this game. AKA Necro/spirit ranger/ sword-dagger thief right now)

Anyways sorry for this getting off topic on this post but sometimes people need to learn the game before opening their mouth on forums

official.4658:

great explaination of cheesy ( just that it’s you know , cheesy)… If my spec is soo cheesy why am i literally the only one who plays it. O right because its a tought spec to play to do well in. Basically what your definition of cheese is is a classes playstyle that you dont like. Not that it is OP while doing nothing skillful to win. (which is basically everyone elses meaning for a cheese spec in this game. AKA Necro/spirit ranger right now)

That’s not what I mean by cheesy. I clarified that point over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. It’s cheesy (IMO of course, which I also pointed out) because it revolves entirely around 1 thing – stealth stacking. I prefer a spec where the answer to the question “What should I do now” isn’t answered most often by “Stealth, or survive until you can stealth again”

So, how about that 10/30/0/0/30 spec you mentioned?

evilapprentice.6379:

S/D is pretty clearly less viable IMO – It’s tools for surviving 1v2-3’s aren’t as good, and it’s not as easy to escape/reset a fight, and doesn’t have the same burst, or any blinds. Who knows, maybe that assumption of mine is wrong.

Because each skill s/d was nerfed.
For more viable: Tactical strike – Need replace daze on stun.

Balance builds are not possible because of the poor save trait.
Need rework save trait
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Refuge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Instinctual_Response
Because they not save in pve. And do not save from oneshot.

and again i explained that stacking stealth is doing nothing for your team unless u find the sweet spot of dps and regen. Im out of stealth more than im in it doing lots of things to win the fight including backstabs/auto attacks interrupts blinds shadow shots and swapping to s/p which has no stealth where i get my health back from signet of malice on my pistol whips and daggerstorm elite (if im running it)

What should i do now? Any answer for thief = stealth or evade/infiltrator out

Heres a tip play another class

official.4658:

and again i explained that stacking stealth is doing nothing for your team unless u find the sweet spot of dps and regen. Im out of stealth more than im in it doing lots of things to win the fight including backstabs/auto attacks interrupts blinds shadow shots and swapping to s/p which has no stealth where i get my health back from signet of malice on my pistol whips and daggerstorm elite (if im running it)

What should i do now? Any answer for thief = stealth or evade/infiltrator out

Heres a tip play another class

Ok, it’s obvious it’s getting a little late for some people here, so lets just agree to disagree without getting all kitten y about it, eh?

official, i mean no disrespect, but people were just saying their opinions without any insults. You went a little bit over the board defending your build, and things got heated. I also dont think its bad to get a little heated up defending something you believe in, but it removes some focus from the discussion of viable thief sPvP builds, which is not something i would like to happen on this thread. If there are other builds around, i would like to try them as well and see what happens then.

I actually tried your build and it really is pretty awesome. I mean it nets you lots of damage, lots of healing and lots of mobility. The only thing i did was trade shadow trap for shadow refuge. I realize by doing so im less useful because i cant insta recap points, but since im knew to the build i really need the extra survavibility untill i can get used to it. It also helps at the beginning of a match to get very fast somewhere (farthest point).

Have been playing with it the entire night, and i even though im kinda of new i die 1~2 times at maximum per match, kill a lot and cap a lot of points. Amazed! Congratulations man!

On another question, do you use the same thing for WvW ( i mean basically the same thing, obviously equips do change )

months ago, before caltrops nerf, have to say was a pretty annoying build on far..

evilapprentice.6379:

Whats this 10/30/0/0/30 spec you mentioned?

10 Deadly Arts for Mug
30 Critical Strikes with Executioner, Side Strike and Signets of Power/Signet Use/Furious Retaliation
30 Trickery with Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft and Sleight of Hand

It’s one of the decent specs a thief can run with at the moment, and my choice of trait setup when I’m running D/P. Send me a personal message if you want specifics on the trait choices or how it plays.

Just a word to everyone on this thread disagreeing with cruuk’s build choice. I have to say just watch his stream. I have observed many thieves’ game plays and imo cruuk just fills such a great role. He is just able to put such consistent pressure on far point without fail. He rarely drops too. He decaps and keeps neuts consistently. With a good team, a build like cruuks is op. With a bad team, a build like cruuk’s carries.
His build is solid and smart and he is literally at the build’s skill cap. it remains true to the spirit of thief and, to be frank, he’s the only thief I’ve seen take down spirit rangers and necros consistently. He’s rarely even on the losing end of an extended duel. So truly truly take a good look at his build and emulate.
Watch his gameplay instead of arguing. I haven’t really seen any other thief do what he does..
he fills such a great and unique thief niche.

- Twin