Guild Wars 2

Solstice.1097:

what? you think every stomp attempt you are going to get multiple CCs on you?

why can’t you just start the stomp to bait out their cc’s and then dodge? also, doesn’t this go both ways and also make it harder to rez a downed player?

the only impact i see this having on downed state play is more often preferring to cleave over stomp (which most teams would be wise to do anyway)

Up on numerous cc ?
Cleave more suitable to finish players ?

And the winner is ….. ?
Just lol.

All I see is good in this change.

CCs actually mattering in WvW: Good.
Monster CCs actually mattering in PvE: Good
Boon Rip not being required to deal with heavy Stability Stacks? : Good.
CC focused builds actually being able to overpower 1 button’s worth of stability: Good.

Keep in mind that all current stability skills will likely not grant just one stack. Keep in mind that lack of stability/stability reliance was making certain elites and utilities more manditory than they should be.

Keep in mind that keeping a pocket boon ripper as a requirement for PvP is no more fun than requiring a dedicated pocket healer for PvP.

Keep in mind that Stability is being changed because it is packaged with Fortitude, and having fortitude combined with the current stability would just plain cause too many problems in the world of CCs and conditions. Lengthy frames of “Immune to everything except raw damage” would hypercharge the already giant problem of stability/boon ripping being far more important in most PvP encounters than every other mechanic in the game

In addition, keep in mind that breaking stability now requires a larger effort by your enemies. Wherin before they would simply keep all CCs ready to fly until stabilit ended, now it’s going to take multiple strips, or multiple ccs to remove it completely (unless necro, because corrupt boons is pure insanity)

The overall result is CC used more tactically rather than “NO STABILITY FIRE ALL CCS NAO”

I honestly can’t see why anyone is complaining about this change, unless they were using heavy stability stacking as a crutch to completely ignore the fact that CC exists.

xDudisx.5914:

Sorel.4870:

xDudisx.5914:

I see the new stab been a problem against slick shoes and mesmer daze. Those skills will need to be nerfed.

Not really. You would have to not run in and out off it, that’s all. Slick shoes have a small AoE, and Chaos Storm can daze you 3 times at the very maximum.

Mesmer F3 will apply daze 3 times. If it removes 3 stab stacks it will be op.

I think this is on purpose. Mesmers are all about control, after all, it makes sense we’d be able to do mass-stripping more easily.

PopeUrban.2578:

All I see is good in this change.

CCs actually mattering in WvW: Good.
Monster CCs actually mattering in PvE: Good
Boon Rip not being required to deal with heavy Stability Stacks? : Good.
CC focused builds actually being able to overpower 1 button’s worth of stability: Good.

No good
CCs actually mattering => it already matters but now Hammer war train will be insane
Boon Rip not being required to deal with heavy Stability Stacks? => No good to get boon rip less usefull (it is already sub-par in regards with boon generation)
CC focused builds actually being able to overpower 1 button’s worth of stability => ok no counter to CC…what for class not able to deal spammy cc ? good ? really ?
I see you are a thief…I can easily see what may sound interesting to you…but no ..it is not good

Thief will just be more effective and more powerful and more needed in TeamQ (so is mesmer) they already remove stab effectively with steal

now they can remove stab with simply headshot. gg

Zefrost.3425:

Say goodbye to outplaying your opponents against unfavourable odds.

You will no longer be getting stomps in outnumbered fights unless you have invulnerability skills. (Engineer, elementalist, mesmer)

People are highly overestimating the number of stability stacks you will get from skills. You have to be insane to think 10 stacks would be granted from anything (other than elites, maybe) They are making this change so that there is counterplay against stability. If skills like balanced stance granted 10 stability stacks, nothing would change and the whole change would be pointless.

5 (FIVE) is the golden number in Guild Wars 2.

The most stacks that a skill like balanced stance, toss elixir b or any other long cooldown stability skill is going to grant you, is 5 (FIVE). At the most. Other abilities such as Foot in the Grave that allow for constant, high up-time on stability? Those will be 1 (ONE) stack of stability. 2 stacks is doubtful but no way in hell will it be higher than 2.

So, now, classes with invulnerability skills will be the only ones getting stomps in outnumbered fights. Classes with long cooldown stability skills might get stomps if they’re lucky.

Ok, let me get this straight: against good players you don’t stand a chance 1v3. 1v2, they could not really strip 5 stacks. So I assume you meant against bad players in WvW, as your video suggested? Well we don’t have the same foes then. In WvW, even without stab you can easily stomp, as these guys have no reflexes. Hell, with a thief you can stealth stomp with no stab in the middle of a zerg and no one will blink! Thieves, mesmers, engineers excels in outnumbered fight, and they don’t even need stability. You’re over-reacting.

Sorel.4870:

Relentliss.2170:

I can’t remember the last time players asked for the CC to be increased or made even more crippling. With CC so spammable Stability made the game somewhat playable.

The change makes no sense.

I’ve given up on this current Dev team.

Please read the thread before complaining. There are good reasons to think that this change will not affect spvp. Furthermore, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this exact comment somewhere, so the laziness of this reply is beyond words.

I read the thread. TBH I don’t really want to be CC’d that much that I’d endorse any change that increased it. WvW would be practically unplayable for mele classes. And with all the spammable CC in Spvp it will be much of the same. No it won’t affect dueling, but it will affect anyone who is forced to do any sort of bunkering and draws the fire of more than one person.

I don’t see why they are wasting our time with this when there are so much more important issues to deal with.

If the pvp team was good, how did they manage to lose so many players?

Relentliss.2170:

Sorel.4870:

Relentliss.2170:

I can’t remember the last time players asked for the CC to be increased or made even more crippling. With CC so spammable Stability made the game somewhat playable.

The change makes no sense.

I’ve given up on this current Dev team.

Please read the thread before complaining. There are good reasons to think that this change will not affect spvp. Furthermore, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this exact comment somewhere, so the laziness of this reply is beyond words.

I read the thread. TBH I don’t really want to be CC’d that much that I’d endorse any change that increased it. WvW would be practically unplayable for mele classes. And with all the spammable CC in Spvp it will be much of the same. No it won’t affect dueling, but it will affect anyone who is forced to do any sort of bunkering and draws the fire of more than one person.

I don’t see why they are wasting our time with this when there are so much more important issues to deal with.

How do you know the other issues the game have hasn’t been fixed yet? I mean the stability change was meant to be a secret until the devs realize people will see it anyways and revealed it.

Also the fact that they changed it means it was important enough to ignore the other issues.

Zefrost.3425:

5 (FIVE) is the golden number in Guild Wars 2.

The most stacks that a skill like balanced stance, toss elixir b or any other long cooldown stability skill is going to grant you, is 5 (FIVE). At the most. Other abilities such as Foot in the Grave that allow for constant, high up-time on stability? Those will be 1 (ONE) stack of stability. 2 stacks is doubtful but no way in hell will it be higher than 2.

There are reasons to believe this is not the case (as pointed out earlier in this thread). A short spammable stability on the revenant granted 5 stacks of stability for a short time. The truth of the matter is we have no idea what the sweet spot is.

So it seems like the consensus is gearing towards this:

1. Headshot and Diversion aren’t an issue because those classes generally already strip boons.
2. Some players worry about how many stacks there will be for certain skills.
3. Most disagreements seem to be coming from misunderstandings about the change. (Not just one stacks, the number of stacks it will grant)
4. Overall, most PvPers seem to like this change conceptually, but worry about the number of stacks chosen for each skill.

Anyone disagree with any of these?

Keep in mind, we’re not talking about this change in a WvW perspective. We have a specialist who I’m sure is getting buckets upon buckets of feedback about how it will affect WvW xD (Because I for one have a sneaking suspicion it might).

To me, there are a few scenarios where you need stability in PvP:

1. To avoid being trained down by certain heavy CC bruisers (cough engi/war cough).
   1. For this point, remember that stability is still blocking anywhere from 1-5 CCs on low cooldown stabilities. That’s not peanuts. Those dangerous CCers you think of (cele engi/war) have to blow some big cooldowns in order to get you vulnerable.
2. To get off stomps/reses.
   1. I could see high level players knocking out lots of stability (5 stacks maybe), but even then I think it’d just be easier to remove it if the stacks get too high.
3. To avoid being pulled down from areas (skyhammer, temple, even high grounds on foefire).
   1. I see no change here. By the time they know you’ve targeted them, they’re playing defensive and the stability has done its job.

Any disagreement with those statements?

Are there any other scenarios where you need stability that I missed?

What will now happen with 10 hammer wars jumping on the ranges with f1 ?
…it will just be game over

Kicast.1459:

What will now happen with 10 hammer wars jumping on the ranges with f1 ?
…it will just be game over

Remember that you’re in the PvP forums, not WvW.

Its like they had a meeting and said “How can we possibly make this game worse? We’ve tried everything else.”

It’s a buff to CC heavy classes which already happen to dominate the meta. That’s bad.

Glad to see the change will not affect a bit the build I play (meditation guardian).

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Kicast.1459:

What will now happen with 10 hammer wars jumping on the ranges with f1 ?
…it will just be game over

Remember that you’re in the PvP forums, not WvW.

You’re being too reasonable about it. It’s the forums! Almost nobody read your post, which is a shame since it was a good summary of the thread. They just see the title and post!

edit: Anyway, thank you very much for trying to keep the debate focused

Will these stacks vanish after a certain amount of time or will they last until they’re used? And if yes – how long will they stay? Just imagine CC-spells with long CDs … until now you could/had to wait until stability ended and then apply your CC. As it will be now you can basically never CC your opponent with those long CDs (looking at this revenant trait that gives stability on dodge roll or the ele-trait that grants stability when attuning to earth, etc. ).

Gorni.1764:

Will these stacks vanish after a certain amount of time or will they last until they’re used? And if yes – how long will they stay? Just imagine CC-spells with long CDs … until now you could/had to wait until stability ended and then apply your CC. As it will be now you can basically never CC your opponent with those long CDs (looking at this revenant trait that gives stability on dodge roll or the ele-trait that grants stability when attuning to earth, etc. ).

Stacks will have a duration. The duration and number of stacks will be determined by the cost of the skill (cooldown, cast time, positional requirements etc etc). There are no specifics just yet, which is where I think much of the debate comes in on this. That said, it seems like most players are for this conceptually (it grants more counterplay), but worry about the stacks being too little and allowing for the already very strong CC to become even more powerful.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Overall, most PvPers seem to like this change conceptually, but worry about the number of stacks chosen for each skill.

Don’t know who you’re talking to. I dont care what hot joiners think about this change. Literally every single person Ive talked to at the high end of pvp (the ones that actually get rewards) don’t like this change. Doesn’t matter if they play a class that has stability or boonstrip or lots of ccs, they think its a worthless change. Stability is already an underused boon. There’s absolutely no reason to change it unless theyre nerfing the CRAP out of cc’s once the change goes through.

Welp. depending on how this effects guardians this could be it for me with this game. Bunker guardians already kind of out of favor because of engineers and elementalist. If this ends up being anything more then a very minor nerf to stability in conquest Im outta here.

brannigan.9831:

Welp. depending on how this effects guardians this could be it for me with this game. Bunker guardians already kind of out of favor because of engineers and elementalist. If this ends up being anything more then a very minor nerf to stability in conquest Im outta here.

you dont like your class enough to try something besides bunker?

insanemaniac.2456:

brannigan.9831:

Welp. depending on how this effects guardians this could be it for me with this game. Bunker guardians already kind of out of favor because of engineers and elementalist. If this ends up being anything more then a very minor nerf to stability in conquest Im outta here.

you dont like your class enough to try something besides bunker?

I play what works. Please don’t tell mediatation or condition guardian. They are more passed by other classes then Bunker Guard is. Please don’t make those kind of arguments. What Guardian does best is group support and bunker. If I want to be condition or dps or roamer other classes do it much better. At this point the vast majority of my experience is as a support bunker Im not interested in playing other classes/roles. Sure occassionaly I’ll play another class or role. But in a nutshell Bunka 4 life.

Booms.3952:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Overall, most PvPers seem to like this change conceptually, but worry about the number of stacks chosen for each skill.

Don’t know who you’re talking to. I dont care what hot joiners think about this change. Literally every single person Ive talked to at the high end of pvp (the ones that actually get rewards) don’t like this change. Doesn’t matter if they play a class that has stability or boonstrip or lots of ccs, they think its a worthless change. Stability is already an underused boon. There’s absolutely no reason to change it unless theyre nerfing the CRAP out of cc’s once the change goes through.

And of course neither you nor they entertained the possibility that Stability access would be added to a number of already existing skills due to it’s relative drop in power. Of course this is purely conjecture.

No one knows what the plans are yet so if you’re going to speculate, at least do it politely and intelligently.

brannigan.9831:

insanemaniac.2456:

brannigan.9831:

Welp. depending on how this effects guardians this could be it for me with this game. Bunker guardians already kind of out of favor because of engineers and elementalist. If this ends up being anything more then a very minor nerf to stability in conquest Im outta here.

you dont like your class enough to try something besides bunker?

I play what works. Please don’t tell mediatation or condition guardian. They are more passed by other classes then Bunker Guard is. Please don’t make those kind of arguments. What Guardian does best is group support and bunker. If I want to be condition or dps or roamer other classes do it much better. At this point the vast majority of my experience is as a support bunker Im not interested in playing other classes/roles. Sure occassionaly I’ll play another class or role. But in a nutshell Bunka 4 life.

ah. a closed mind.

I’m absolutely in favour of this change! The way it works now, unless you have someone on your team that can remove boons, stability is incredibly overpowered. Even then, with the tremendous amount of boon spam going on in team fights (particularly with last year’s rune changes), stability was difficult to remove simply because of how low it’s buried on most skills’ removal priorities! Now, while it will still be difficult to cc someone with 3-5 stacks of stability, it’s not impossible, if you all choose to blow all your cooldowns in an effort to do so. If you really, REALLY want to interrupt an absolutely crucial action (a stomp that will let half the enemy team rally, a channel for a hero in Stronghold, etc), you have the option to do so, at the cost of using all your interrupt cooldowns. Real, genuine counterplay, with serious tradeoffs!

On the obverse, now that stability stacks in intensity, it also gives the developers scope to give MORE stability! I expect most skills that currently give stability to get multiple stacks of it, especially if they’re on long cooldowns. However, skills that currently don’t give stability but need it can be given a single stack of it, or maybe two, without making them OP, because a single stack is easily dealt with. So you can look at this change as a buff for stability, in that we can get more of it in smaller doses, because it’s no longer an absolute invulnerability to CC. So maybe if they judge that class X really needs a way to get their heal off reliably, here, have 1 stack stability for 3" on a skill that didn’t give it before.

Booms.3952:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Overall, most PvPers seem to like this change conceptually, but worry about the number of stacks chosen for each skill.

Don’t know who you’re talking to. I dont care what hot joiners think about this change. Literally every single person Ive talked to at the high end of pvp (the ones that actually get rewards) don’t like this change. Doesn’t matter if they play a class that has stability or boonstrip or lots of ccs, they think its a worthless change. Stability is already an underused boon. There’s absolutely no reason to change it unless theyre nerfing the CRAP out of cc’s once the change goes through.

Stability is a bit hard to access with a meta build, but I hardly think it’s a bad boon. Just because something isn’t in the meta right now doesn’t mean that the play to it is unfair. The reason they want to change it is that some classes have no good ways of removing boons so they’re just stuck with their main form of defense (CC) being worthless.

Anecdotal stories of other players opinions don’t help me very much. Facts, fair arguments and numbers help me a lot.

It seems like you have the same worries as other players: The CC stacks being too low. Let’s say the Stability stacks were 25 stacks baseline for everything. Would you worry about this change then? Hell no. If they were all 1 stacks, would you worry? Of course. Somewhere in there is a middle ground where it’s just enough that small stabilities can be useful and large stabilities can be strong enough to get stomps and reses off.

Some CCs could use a bit of a warm up time (updraft/overcharged shot), but from reading this thread it seems like the number of CCs on classes that would utilize this change (not thief/mesmer) is low enough that the risk/cost is enough that this change will only marginally help them against smaller stabilities.

i highly doubt this change was made with PvP in mind. I am sure they THOUGHT about the impact it could/will have on PvP when they were deciding exactly how many stacks, duration, etc, etc, but it wasn’t the primary reason for this change, and therefore it is quite likely that a few builds will become OP for awhile simply due to this change (but we don’t know what because we don’t know the specifics).

at least it’s going to shake up the meta, though. shifting imbalances are more interesting than staleness.

Kicast.1459:

PopeUrban.2578:

All I see is good in this change.

CCs actually mattering in WvW: Good.
Monster CCs actually mattering in PvE: Good
Boon Rip not being required to deal with heavy Stability Stacks? : Good.
CC focused builds actually being able to overpower 1 button’s worth of stability: Good.

No good
CCs actually mattering => it already matters but now Hammer war train will be insane
Boon Rip not being required to deal with heavy Stability Stacks? => No good to get boon rip less usefull (it is already sub-par in regards with boon generation)
CC focused builds actually being able to overpower 1 button’s worth of stability => ok no counter to CC…what for class not able to deal spammy cc ? good ? really ?
I see you are a thief…I can easily see what may sound interesting to you…but no ..it is not good

Hammer warrior train: Can no longer pre-stack absurdly long stability that protects them from an entire zerg’s worth of ranged CC, and can actually be countered without bringing an absurd amount of boon stripping.

Boon Rip: Boon rip is not sub-par, boons with no natural counter are too powerful. Stability is one such boon. Ripping should never be the only way to remove any “lockout” boon. “Hard boons” like aegis or blind which completely prevent an action should always have a natural counter (spam attacks in this case). “Soft boons” like Protection or swiftness don’t need a natrual counter, as they do not completely prevent actions, and thus the natural counter is simply apply the corresponding counter-move (more burst DPS, or cripple in this case)

CC focused builds: A build designed around CC should logically sacrifice damage to do so. Opting to put oneself in a controlling role, and having that role completely invalidated because your target hit one button with plenty of room to fill his bar with far greater utility than you have access to is not balanced. It is skewed in the favor of the build with better/longer stability access. You can not counter that stability, despite the fact that your target has multiple ways (stunbreaks in addition to stability) to counter your CC. This is badly designed. Stability should be a buffer, not an invulnerable shield.

Thief: This opinion has nothing to do with being a thief, and in fact stands to hurt rather than help my survivability, as I have exactly one skill that grants it, and must channel that skill to benefit from it. As a thief I am MORE likely to experience the negative effects of this stability change than classes with more regular access to the boon, yet I still believe this change is better for the game as a whole.

Sadly as a staff ele, this change doesnt seem like much.

My only means to staying alive is still crippled by stability as a whole ._.