Guild Wars 2

Its amazing how ANet fixed the low pop issue with bringing in the PVE and WV3 side of things, because those players are simply the best players would could have asked for. It was silly to think attractive the PVP community to the game, best to just use the assets the game already has.

I think now more than ever, its time we all embraced this new era of no capping points and kill farming. I am loving the new level 3 players who come into arena, its amazingly fun to play with them. I especially like the giggles we all get as we suffer a huge defeat because 3 level 6 thievs tried to farm there spawn point, that was the best bit of the whole match. I also enjoy that we no longer need to defend anything, just cap and run along to a fight.

A lot of these new players could show us a thing or two, like how brave they are. I always seem them firing into a group of 3 enemies, sure they pretty much get one shotted but they at least tried. I however am a coward and avoid unwinnable or time wasting fights, I should just stand off the point but fight bunker engies who are on it, thats the new order.

I am thinking the PVP player base needs to start rolling PVE chars, just go pure tank and clog up all the dungeon and LFG groups, really push the outer limits of defense whilst contributing absolutely nothing to the group other than being alive. Dont worry, other pvp players will be with you, untill we have groups that can tank any boss but never kill him (will be like guards in beta all over again, YAY).

Now, this is my point and I am going to say this now because some people might think tinfoil hat, and they would be correct. I think ANet found the base game in a box in a local park, maybe an old tramp, wizened somewhat, told of an ancient gaming curse, in which you could take what at its core is a good game, and seemingly make every bad choice with regards to PVP.

Case and Point – “too much burst and one shotting is rewarded, lets fix that” “here is skyhammer”

“eles have one somewhat useful spec in bunker, lets make the class more toned and have better options” “ele has no builds and is now utterly worthless in pvp”

“Engie flamethrower WILL NEVER WORK CORRECTLY, AND YOU CAN FORGET THE 5TH SKILL AS WELL, IT WILL NEVER BE CHANGED”

“Warrior – active playing – skill- damage + ai = Ranger”

“Stealth is too powerful and people are complaining” “we put all your healing and condition removal in stealth”

“We never really know what to do with a mesmer balance wise, so lets just throw stuff at it till it does something, aww hell FORGET IT!”

Its these same people that are required to provide growth for pvp scene. My recommendation? wait til leagues / ladders come out….if you out skill them you most likely won’t be playing with them that much.

To judge the nuances of a win or a loss in sPvP atm is silly. Now is the time to be practising to better yourself mechanically and through overall game knowledge while leaderboards don’t mean anything. Ready for ladders / a year from now when / if the game is really hitting its stride with PvP.

I was told that when it all first game out, in fact that answer has been the echo for pvp for the last year. Wait till arena, wait till custom, wait till spectate, wait till they can fix it up, wait 6 months, wait a year. Its now over a year since release, and all we have is more of the same, one decent map, one good one, one truly awful one.

THe whole esports thing is a dream, GW2 is too fast paced for that type of thing (both games and combat). Not to mention its VERY hard still to see whats going on if its more than a 1v1 (4v4 upwards is just a cluster duck).

Cool thats your opinion, I take this opportunity to see things like League of Legends and within the first TWO years they added one game type…aka 3v3 treeline….tribunal system….and a number of heros….thats it….and they didnt have PvE or WvW to work with….I’m quite content waiting for a game to ripen myself =)

OO and season 1 as a competition for league starting just prior to year 2

Zanthrax.6538:

Cool thats your opinion, I take this opportunity to see things like League of Legends and within the first TWO years they added one game type…aka 3v3 treeline….tribunal system….and a number of heros….thats it….and they didnt have PvE or WvW to work with….I’m quite content waiting for a game to ripen myself =)

Its interesting that people quote LoL a lot, a game that had a good design for a game mode, and the matches tend to last 45 mins. Do you see the HUGE difference? they offer a longer more overall package (short term play, long term plans, set ups, attrition, lots of ways to win (I only play DoTA 2 and I assume its much the same). The ways in which a single game can be played and the huge amount of different set ups (char sets etc) mean the game has an awful lot to do in a single match.

And that is my main point, this game has so little to do in the game. You dont even need a healer tank dps, just kill things, cap a few points, kill some more, maybe die, spawn, cap a few more things, kill some dudes, kill a few more. Some specs will alter on that, like a thief might cap and kill more, but more running as well. Something tanky just stands their and waits for a fight then backup, or no backup and just die. Then come back and recap with backup. Thats it, its so utterly simple and boring.

Not to mention this mode promotes tanks and bursts. Death match (which for some reason ANet hate, cannot blame them though, it would be so much hard work for them to do, it would be like building a huge game all over again. Not just remove caps or have one (king of the hill, capture the flag, I will happily play football with char if thats what they want just something other than the same god kitten mode over and over again)

Oh and lets talk about the “meta”. Its such a silly term as it implies that someone is trying to steer the ship, it really isnt. The “meta” or as I call it “who got nailed in the nerfs and who got bummed in the buffs this time”.

Thats all this so called meta is, who is currently broken again and which of those makes them more powerful. Thats all it is going to be from now and on forever, no new modes, nothing interesting, just the same old story.

I swear down, in a few years all classes will just have GS and it will be two attacks. Damage and More Damage. Would it really be such a drop in skill to play the game? one mode, one player, one attack. They even pad out the maps with PVE elements, because PVP players love NPC bosses in PVP. You never see it go the other way, imagine if for no real reason in your dungeon group you just started beating each other to death for some copper ore or something. Just plop that around the dungeons and see how long people will say they love it.

DaliIndica.9041:

Zanthrax.6538:

Cool thats your opinion, I take this opportunity to see things like League of Legends and within the first TWO years they added one game type…aka 3v3 treeline….tribunal system….and a number of heros….thats it….and they didnt have PvE or WvW to work with….I’m quite content waiting for a game to ripen myself =)

Its interesting that people quote LoL a lot, a game that had a good design for a game mode, and the matches tend to last 45 mins. Do you see the HUGE difference? they offer a longer more overall package (short term play, long term plans, set ups, attrition, lots of ways to win (I only play DoTA 2 and I assume its much the same). The ways in which a single game can be played and the huge amount of different set ups (char sets etc) mean the game has an awful lot to do in a single match.

And that is my main point, this game has so little to do in the game. You dont even need a healer tank dps, just kill things, cap a few points, kill some more, maybe die, spawn, cap a few more things, kill some dudes, kill a few more. Some specs will alter on that, like a thief might cap and kill more, but more running as well. Something tanky just stands their and waits for a fight then backup, or no backup and just die. Then come back and recap with backup. Thats it, its so utterly simple and boring.

Not to mention this mode promotes tanks and bursts. Death match (which for some reason ANet hate, cannot blame them though, it would be so much hard work for them to do, it would be like building a huge game all over again. Not just remove caps or have one (king of the hill, capture the flag, I will happily play football with char if thats what they want just something other than the same god kitten mode over and over again)

Oh and lets talk about the “meta”. Its such a silly term as it implies that someone is trying to steer the ship, it really isnt. The “meta” or as I call it “who got nailed in the nerfs and who got bummed in the buffs this time”.

Thats all this so called meta is, who is currently broken again and which of those makes them more powerful. Thats all it is going to be from now and on forever, no new modes, nothing interesting, just the same old story.

I swear down, in a few years all classes will just have GS and it will be two attacks. Damage and More Damage. Would it really be such a drop in skill to play the game? one mode, one player, one attack. They even pad out the maps with PVE elements, because PVP players love NPC bosses in PVP. You never see it go the other way, imagine if for no real reason in your dungeon group you just started beating each other to death for some copper ore or something. Just plop that around the dungeons and see how long people will say they love it.

Seriously: cry me a river. What a huge pile of nonsense.

Poplolita.2638:

DaliIndica.9041:

Zanthrax.6538:

Cool thats your opinion, I take this opportunity to see things like League of Legends and within the first TWO years they added one game type…aka 3v3 treeline….tribunal system….and a number of heros….thats it….and they didnt have PvE or WvW to work with….I’m quite content waiting for a game to ripen myself =)

Its interesting that people quote LoL a lot, a game that had a good design for a game mode, and the matches tend to last 45 mins. Do you see the HUGE difference? they offer a longer more overall package (short term play, long term plans, set ups, attrition, lots of ways to win (I only play DoTA 2 and I assume its much the same). The ways in which a single game can be played and the huge amount of different set ups (char sets etc) mean the game has an awful lot to do in a single match.

And that is my main point, this game has so little to do in the game. You dont even need a healer tank dps, just kill things, cap a few points, kill some more, maybe die, spawn, cap a few more things, kill some dudes, kill a few more. Some specs will alter on that, like a thief might cap and kill more, but more running as well. Something tanky just stands their and waits for a fight then backup, or no backup and just die. Then come back and recap with backup. Thats it, its so utterly simple and boring.

Not to mention this mode promotes tanks and bursts. Death match (which for some reason ANet hate, cannot blame them though, it would be so much hard work for them to do, it would be like building a huge game all over again. Not just remove caps or have one (king of the hill, capture the flag, I will happily play football with char if thats what they want just something other than the same god kitten mode over and over again)

Oh and lets talk about the “meta”. Its such a silly term as it implies that someone is trying to steer the ship, it really isnt. The “meta” or as I call it “who got nailed in the nerfs and who got bummed in the buffs this time”.

Thats all this so called meta is, who is currently broken again and which of those makes them more powerful. Thats all it is going to be from now and on forever, no new modes, nothing interesting, just the same old story.

I swear down, in a few years all classes will just have GS and it will be two attacks. Damage and More Damage. Would it really be such a drop in skill to play the game? one mode, one player, one attack. They even pad out the maps with PVE elements, because PVP players love NPC bosses in PVP. You never see it go the other way, imagine if for no real reason in your dungeon group you just started beating each other to death for some copper ore or something. Just plop that around the dungeons and see how long people will say they love it.

Seriously: cry me a river. What a huge pile of nonsense.

Seriously. Go cry somewhere else. Tired of people whining about nonsense. Its so childish. “Oh Anet, you promised me this, and you didn’t give me it.” Meh.

Cush.4063:

Poplolita.2638:

DaliIndica.9041:

Zanthrax.6538:

Cool thats your opinion, I take this opportunity to see things like League of Legends and within the first TWO years they added one game type…aka 3v3 treeline….tribunal system….and a number of heros….thats it….and they didnt have PvE or WvW to work with….I’m quite content waiting for a game to ripen myself =)

Its interesting that people quote LoL a lot, a game that had a good design for a game mode, and the matches tend to last 45 mins. Do you see the HUGE difference? they offer a longer more overall package (short term play, long term plans, set ups, attrition, lots of ways to win (I only play DoTA 2 and I assume its much the same). The ways in which a single game can be played and the huge amount of different set ups (char sets etc) mean the game has an awful lot to do in a single match.

And that is my main point, this game has so little to do in the game. You dont even need a healer tank dps, just kill things, cap a few points, kill some more, maybe die, spawn, cap a few more things, kill some dudes, kill a few more. Some specs will alter on that, like a thief might cap and kill more, but more running as well. Something tanky just stands their and waits for a fight then backup, or no backup and just die. Then come back and recap with backup. Thats it, its so utterly simple and boring.

Not to mention this mode promotes tanks and bursts. Death match (which for some reason ANet hate, cannot blame them though, it would be so much hard work for them to do, it would be like building a huge game all over again. Not just remove caps or have one (king of the hill, capture the flag, I will happily play football with char if thats what they want just something other than the same god kitten mode over and over again)

Oh and lets talk about the “meta”. Its such a silly term as it implies that someone is trying to steer the ship, it really isnt. The “meta” or as I call it “who got nailed in the nerfs and who got bummed in the buffs this time”.

Thats all this so called meta is, who is currently broken again and which of those makes them more powerful. Thats all it is going to be from now and on forever, no new modes, nothing interesting, just the same old story.

I swear down, in a few years all classes will just have GS and it will be two attacks. Damage and More Damage. Would it really be such a drop in skill to play the game? one mode, one player, one attack. They even pad out the maps with PVE elements, because PVP players love NPC bosses in PVP. You never see it go the other way, imagine if for no real reason in your dungeon group you just started beating each other to death for some copper ore or something. Just plop that around the dungeons and see how long people will say they love it.

Seriously: cry me a river. What a huge pile of nonsense.

Seriously. Go cry somewhere else. Tired of people whining about nonsense. Its so childish. “Oh Anet, you promised me this, and you didn’t give me it.” Meh.

You quoted the wrong person.

Cush.4063:

Poplolita.2638:

DaliIndica.9041:

Zanthrax.6538:

Cool thats your opinion, I take this opportunity to see things like League of Legends and within the first TWO years they added one game type…aka 3v3 treeline….tribunal system….and a number of heros….thats it….and they didnt have PvE or WvW to work with….I’m quite content waiting for a game to ripen myself =)

Its interesting that people quote LoL a lot, a game that had a good design for a game mode, and the matches tend to last 45 mins. Do you see the HUGE difference? they offer a longer more overall package (short term play, long term plans, set ups, attrition, lots of ways to win (I only play DoTA 2 and I assume its much the same). The ways in which a single game can be played and the huge amount of different set ups (char sets etc) mean the game has an awful lot to do in a single match.

And that is my main point, this game has so little to do in the game. You dont even need a healer tank dps, just kill things, cap a few points, kill some more, maybe die, spawn, cap a few more things, kill some dudes, kill a few more. Some specs will alter on that, like a thief might cap and kill more, but more running as well. Something tanky just stands their and waits for a fight then backup, or no backup and just die. Then come back and recap with backup. Thats it, its so utterly simple and boring.

Not to mention this mode promotes tanks and bursts. Death match (which for some reason ANet hate, cannot blame them though, it would be so much hard work for them to do, it would be like building a huge game all over again. Not just remove caps or have one (king of the hill, capture the flag, I will happily play football with char if thats what they want just something other than the same god kitten mode over and over again)

Oh and lets talk about the “meta”. Its such a silly term as it implies that someone is trying to steer the ship, it really isnt. The “meta” or as I call it “who got nailed in the nerfs and who got bummed in the buffs this time”.

Thats all this so called meta is, who is currently broken again and which of those makes them more powerful. Thats all it is going to be from now and on forever, no new modes, nothing interesting, just the same old story.

I swear down, in a few years all classes will just have GS and it will be two attacks. Damage and More Damage. Would it really be such a drop in skill to play the game? one mode, one player, one attack. They even pad out the maps with PVE elements, because PVP players love NPC bosses in PVP. You never see it go the other way, imagine if for no real reason in your dungeon group you just started beating each other to death for some copper ore or something. Just plop that around the dungeons and see how long people will say they love it.

Seriously: cry me a river. What a huge pile of nonsense.

Seriously. Go cry somewhere else. Tired of people whining about nonsense. Its so childish. “Oh Anet, you promised me this, and you didn’t give me it.” Meh.

pop and cush, is there a healthy spvp and wvw population?

@DaliIndica: I guess in your world everyone is born r60. Which would be fine, if your attempt at satire was funny.

The players in Soloq.The horror

Gw2 will never ever provide the kind of pvp that u seem to like, meaning a game whose focus is the pvp. Gw2 is a pve game with 2 modes to spice things up for when u are bored from pve, spvp and WvW.
Why do you think half the playerbase left spvp….

DaliIndica.9041:

I am thinking the PVP player base needs to start rolling PVE chars, just go pure tank and clog up all the dungeon and LFG groups, really push the outer limits of defense whilst contributing absolutely nothing to the group other than being alive. Dont worry, other pvp players will be with you, untill we have groups that can tank any boss but never kill him (will be like guards in beta all over again, YAY).

Actually, this is a great idea. Whenever you get one of these new players in ranked and give them suggestions, they tell you it’s just a game and that you care too much.

Maybe they’ll figure out how annoying unprepared players are if we clog their dungeons with tanks. And when they say we need to learn how to build/gear, we can tell them they care too much.

Then again, are tanks really the most useless thing we can think of? I can imagine a Swiftness spamming ele build. You know, for the utility. If you run faster, you clear the dungeon faster!

zilcho.7624:

DaliIndica.9041:

I am thinking the PVP player base needs to start rolling PVE chars, just go pure tank and clog up all the dungeon and LFG groups, really push the outer limits of defense whilst contributing absolutely nothing to the group other than being alive. Dont worry, other pvp players will be with you, untill we have groups that can tank any boss but never kill him (will be like guards in beta all over again, YAY).

Actually, this is a great idea. Whenever you get one of these new players in ranked and give them suggestions, they tell you it’s just a game and that you care too much.

Maybe they’ll figure out how annoying unprepared players are if we clog their dungeons with tanks. And when they say we need to learn how to build/gear, we can tell them they care too much.

Then again, are tanks really the most useless thing we can think of? I can imagine a Swiftness spamming ele build. You know, for the utility. If you run faster, you clear the dungeon faster!

Run a staff, arcane brilliance, and arcane wave, you never even need to leave air.
Just spam all your skills and blast finish in air 5.

So a game that had an amazing game mode good design still took 2 years to get rolling? That further proves my point that we should just take some deep breathes and be patient….if your sick of waiting constantly take a break you can come back at any time! =)

Zanthrax.6538:

So a game that had an amazing game mode good design still took 2 years to get rolling? That further proves my point that we should just take some deep breathes and be patient….if your sick of waiting constantly take a break you can come back at any time! =)

LoL was successful at launch, I played since beta…while they made minor alterations to champion design and many seasons later gold distribution and jungle changes…the game stayed more or so the same. The forums were mostly positive in the first year the game was out as everyone who played it was pleased, thus why it was ALWAYS on a steady rise in popularity, it never trucked and suddenly lost a huge chunk of its pop.

This game however had a huge loss shortly after launch followed by a slow rise, followed by another plummet…only recently with these pve benefitting changes suddenly breathing life back into the population. This is due to the fact generally most people are unhappy with the game mode, they don’t enjoy it they get bored and move on. A game can be unbalanced…every game is unbalanced to some degree (that isn’t a mirror match) its the fun factor that matters…if the game was fun more people would play for no rewards.

Also, to say the game needs to “ripen” has merit…but on the flipside its hard to say that will be the case here.

The rate at which crucial changes to add features that normally In todays market would be part of the game at launch is rather slow due to shared resources as you pointed out. Suggesting that there will be no “boom” to shock interest into the game….instead you get slow add ons that don’t offer enough consideration. Also todays market (especially the mmo one) is extremely competitive, and there are many games moving into gw2 territory that will offer pvp support.

Wildstar has the backbone structure to support many pvp modes and has several forms in development that seem to be testing well.

Everquest next has a huge talented team featuring new technology a simple similar play style to gw2 with a massively more powerful game engine matched with the ability to MAKE YOUR OWN PVP MAPS AND GAME MODES.

GW2 devs are still trying to reprogram things to they can make simple changes like…like allow items to cross pvp/pve or allow for 2 sigils on a 2hnder…..the ready que for spvp isn’t even fixed yet. These should not be difficult fixes, but because the gw2 engine was rushed and not optimized for anything outside their goals for pve, are not able to be done with out recoding…which is timely and costly. Which is why we wait forever for things that would otherwise seem stupidly simple tiny changes.

In short, I admire your optimism but I feel its misplaced. GW2 more than likely will never have the competitive demographic of pvpers. Theres just too many games that are already further along about to launch with features and basic functions gw2 still is months away from even beginning to implement.

It is good to see new players. It is all the mesmer phantasm/spirit ranger/minion masters they bring with them that is annoying.

Conquest isnt super intuitive for newer players. Thats one of the main reasons why GW2s spvp isnt doing as well as it could be numbers wise.

We really desperately need a good new gamemode that is easy to get in to, but hard to master.

Once we get that, the numbers will increase. With more people matchmaking will be better.

Lopez.7369:

If you’re getting paired up with people like this, you’re a rating that most likely deserves it.

The PvP community needs less experienced players, particularly those from PvE and WvW, to grow. The latest changes have been a good thing.

This guy. He gets it.

What’s wrong with the 5th skill on flamethrower? also look to improving your LB rating

I am not a spvp player myself, but i join casualy. YOu can see in every game players stacking and comming at you even when you are already capping a point just to do their daily.
Same is happening to WvW community, players ruining it, rushint to try and cap things, and ending up costing us big fights just because they want their precious 5 achivement points from their daily.

Lopez.7369:

If you’re getting paired up with people like this, you’re a rating that most likely deserves it.

The PvP community needs less experienced players, particularly those from PvE and WvW, to grow. The latest changes have been a good thing.

WvW hardcores > spvp in knowelage of the game and full usage of skills and combos.
This is a war between spvp and wvw players together vs the “casuals” =p

no game without players

dont expect people to instantly be as good as everyone who played since release/beta

As much as i disagree with hard counter balancing they definitely found a way to bring in a pretty big number of players which is pretty cool.

I’m rank 30 and recently startet to use soloq and it is horrible. Because i didn’t use it from the beginning and so don’t have a position in the leaderbords i’m always in matches with at least 8 players out of 10 under rank 10.
I have no problem with new players in the non-tournament-pvp because somehow they have to learn it, but why in tournaments? Sometimes its funny because i can 1vs3 my enemies but if you have 2 thiefs rank 2 in your team who seem to press random buttons and die instantly its no fun at all. So please don’t make it possible for rank 1-10 to join soloq.

“all is vain”

war.3790:

Lopez.7369:

If you’re getting paired up with people like this, you’re a rating that most likely deserves it.

The PvP community needs less experienced players, particularly those from PvE and WvW, to grow. The latest changes have been a good thing.

WvW hardcores > spvp in knowelage of the game and full usage of skills and combos.
This is a war between spvp and wvw players together vs the “casuals” =p

rrrrright, except wvw in 90% of the time consists of zerging aka running as blob spamming 1 and killing NPCs/door (lol pve)

Zinwrath.2049:

Zanthrax.6538:

So a game that had an amazing game mode good design still took 2 years to get rolling? That further proves my point that we should just take some deep breathes and be patient….if your sick of waiting constantly take a break you can come back at any time! =)

LoL was successful at launch, I played since beta…while they made minor alterations to champion design and many seasons later gold distribution and jungle changes…the game stayed more or so the same. The forums were mostly positive in the first year the game was out as everyone who played it was pleased, thus why it was ALWAYS on a steady rise in popularity, it never trucked and suddenly lost a huge chunk of its pop.

This game however had a huge loss shortly after launch followed by a slow rise, followed by another plummet…only recently with these pve benefitting changes suddenly breathing life back into the population. This is due to the fact generally most people are unhappy with the game mode, they don’t enjoy it they get bored and move on. A game can be unbalanced…every game is unbalanced to some degree (that isn’t a mirror match) its the fun factor that matters…if the game was fun more people would play for no rewards.

Also, to say the game needs to “ripen” has merit…but on the flipside its hard to say that will be the case here.

The rate at which crucial changes to add features that normally In todays market would be part of the game at launch is rather slow due to shared resources as you pointed out. Suggesting that there will be no “boom” to shock interest into the game….instead you get slow add ons that don’t offer enough consideration. Also todays market (especially the mmo one) is extremely competitive, and there are many games moving into gw2 territory that will offer pvp support.

Wildstar has the backbone structure to support many pvp modes and has several forms in development that seem to be testing well.

Everquest next has a huge talented team featuring new technology a simple similar play style to gw2 with a massively more powerful game engine matched with the ability to MAKE YOUR OWN PVP MAPS AND GAME MODES.

GW2 devs are still trying to reprogram things to they can make simple changes like…like allow items to cross pvp/pve or allow for 2 sigils on a 2hnder…..the ready que for spvp isn’t even fixed yet. These should not be difficult fixes, but because the gw2 engine was rushed and not optimized for anything outside their goals for pve, are not able to be done with out recoding…which is timely and costly. Which is why we wait forever for things that would otherwise seem stupidly simple tiny changes.

In short, I admire your optimism but I feel its misplaced. GW2 more than likely will never have the competitive demographic of pvpers. Theres just too many games that are already further along about to launch with features and basic functions gw2 still is months away from even beginning to implement.

I dont see the MMO market as competitive at all….every single other MMO apart from GW2 has crashed significantly in its attempt to draw from WoW and non MMO players. Wildstar is definitely in a solid position but time will tell. From my experience with the game so far I don’t see it succeeding but thats just my opinion

Zanthrax.6538:

I dont see the MMO market as competitive at all….every single other MMO apart from GW2 has crashed significantly in its attempt to draw from WoW and non MMO players. Wildstar is definitely in a solid position but time will tell. From my experience with the game so far I don’t see it succeeding but thats just my opinion

Of course the market is competitive. It takes a massive amount of time and money to create an MMO. As far as software engineering goes, an MMO is arguably the most difficult and expensive project on the planet. If we were talking about a dead genre, it would be just that: dead. You wouldn’t see people developing any more games for the market. A real example of a dead genre would be WW2 shooters.

All these discussions start with comparisons to WoW. But WoW somehow exploded in a way no one will ever repeat. It’s the wrong standard for success, because it was a one-time only thing.