Guild Wars 2

What is so hard about fixing PvP teams in this game ? almost every game goes 2v3, then 3v4 and then 4v5, since people can see the scores before joining a team they just join the winning team.

Its such an easy fix.. if its 2v2, when a 5th person joins, it cant make it 2v3 which is an obvious unfair advantage in capturing points. Just lock the 5th person out, til a 6th joins. Make them go in spectate mode and lock them in the team they originally joined.

What is so hard about this? And if someone leaves a game, making it 5v4, or whatever, just make it so the person on the opposite team who has the lowest points is unable to play (teleports to starting zone and cant leave starting zone til another player joins)

seriously, what is so complicated about fixing this ?

I am so confused… why would someone make thread about Hot Join.

Morwath.9817:

I am so confused… why would someone make thread about Hot Join.

Because its still apart of the game I paid for..

Shap.7562:

Morwath.9817:

I am so confused… why would someone make thread about Hot Join.

Because its still apart of the game I paid for..

If you want to play “fair” matches que for Ranked/Unranked. HJ is for casual trolling.

Morwath.9817:

Shap.7562:

Morwath.9817:

I am so confused… why would someone make thread about Hot Join.

Because its still apart of the game I paid for..

If you want to play “fair” matches que for Ranked/Unranked. HJ is for casual trolling.

Have a good day friend, goodluck in other threads

Out of curiosity, why not just que unranked?

I do agree with some of what’s said but I mean it’s kind of the players fault. Me personally, I play for fun, so most of the time I join the losing team anyways. Like you mentioned though most players won’t do this, they head straight for the winning team. Even worse, some will wait till someone gets transferred then join the winning team (saw someone do this, get transferred to the losing team, and repeat the process 3 more times throughout the match -.-). I’ve actually been verbally abused before because when I see someone join the winning right before they are about to win I make it my mission for the remainder of the game to make sure he gets no points whatsoever and has to either play all the way through or find another game. If players weren’t always so concerned with winning and getting dailies and other crap and just focused on having a fun game eventually they’d get their dailies and maybe everyone could enjoy the game a little, but that’s just my take on it. ;3

Yet another thread where someone demands anet change hotjoin to be exactly what unraned is yet for whatever reason refusses to play the game mode that has exactly what they’re asking for

STOP PLAYING HOTJOIN its a practice mode, not actual matches

Morwath.9817:

Shap.7562:

Morwath.9817:

I am so confused… why would someone make thread about Hot Join.

Because its still apart of the game I paid for..

If you want to play “fair” matches que for Ranked/Unranked. HJ is for casual trolling.

Then he grows into a better player, but just as the dream rushes in, he gets hit by the weird matchmaking or gets pitted up against premades. The pains of life <\3

Aside from the obvious where hotjoin is always eschewed, curious why didn’t they just implement a team lockout similar to op’s point.

Hot join is for quick in/out games for trying stuff out or just goofing around and is pretty much good as it works now for that purpose.
If you are looking for more balanced matches(slightly) try unranked and ranked when it comes available.

Salamander.2504:

Out of curiosity, why not just que unranked?

because then you get paired with 4 strangers usually vs a full team of guildmates on teamspeak

Shap.7562:

Salamander.2504:

Out of curiosity, why not just que unranked?

because then you get paired with 4 strangers usually vs a full team of guildmates on teamspeak

Not only is that patently untrue, you rarely get matched vs a full 5 premade BUT you then play hotjoin (practice) and cry that its unfair?

OP are you trolling or really this silly?

displacedTitan.6897:

Shap.7562:

Salamander.2504:

Out of curiosity, why not just que unranked?

because then you get paired with 4 strangers usually vs a full team of guildmates on teamspeak

Not only is that patently untrue, you rarely get matched vs a full 5 premade BUT you then play hotjoin (practice) and cry that its unfair?

OP are you trolling or really this silly?

so either way im in a lose/lose situation ? does the fanboyism run that deep that Anet is immune to criticism for this system ?

Everyone bashing the OP, stop being elitists. The point he is making here is the uneven number of players. Please let us not be hypocrites and accept the fact that 3v5 and 4v5s DO happen in unranked. Thank you.

Shap.7562:

displacedTitan.6897:

Shap.7562:

Salamander.2504:

Out of curiosity, why not just que unranked?

because then you get paired with 4 strangers usually vs a full team of guildmates on teamspeak

Not only is that patently untrue, you rarely get matched vs a full 5 premade BUT you then play hotjoin (practice) and cry that its unfair?

OP are you trolling or really this silly?

so either way im in a lose/lose situation ? does the fanboyism run that deep that Anet is immune to criticism for this system ?

I have a 50% win rate, and I only soloQ. I only play HJ when queued for a WvW map, if I want to play PvP I play unranked

Hotjoin is a mode you play to test stuff, practice something or just play dumb builds that work maybe once in five games. It is deliberately made so that it is fast to get in and out, you really should not expect to get good games there.

There is zero reason not to fix HJ. It is part of the game and first experience in PvP. If not fixed it should be removed.

Vieteriukko.6075:

There is zero reason not to fix HJ. It is part of the game and first experience in PvP. If not fixed it should be removed.

There is nothing to fix. Hot Join is serving the purpose it was intended to serve, you can test builds and PRACTICE.

The minute you demand it become a real mode with balance you turn it into Unranked, which already exists.

Honestly what do you think they should do to balance Hot Join that doesn’t lead inevitably to a matchmaking queue style system like Unranked/Ranked currently uses?

Yes, yes, we’ve all heard this one before. “Hot-join is a place where people practice stuff, there’s no reason to prevent people from exploiting it and making it unplayable.”

Listen. Not everyone has a team of 5 players to queue in unranked arena, and we all know what happens when you solo queue; it’s not better than hot-join. People leave the match, go AFK, or sabotage their own team so that the match ends quicker. There’s nothing you can do to report them, and if you do and a miracle happens, the worst they’ll get is a 24-hour ban.

Unranked arena is supposed to have dishonor. That’s its “fix”. But hot-join has nothing. We need to at least have the teams locked, and prevent players from joining the winning team on the official servers.

There’s always custom arenas to practice. Because unless you’re trying to practice 1 vs 5, I don’t see the point of doing it in hot-join anyway.

No one is claiming that unranked matchmaking is perfect, but 99/100 times its better than any matchmaking you will get in hotjoin. Sure getting matched a full premade when your solo is frustrating, but nowhere near as frustrating nor as frequent as getting uneven teams or getting auto swapped to the losing team right befor you were about to win like with hotjoin.

This is like asking for a sandwich. Recieving one with white bread, but then because you prefer wheat bread over white. You ignore the white bread sandwich and continue to eat moldy bread and complain you have no sandwich.

There is nothing wrong with soloQ…

If I have a stupid build I go there to check it… sometimes I head to a duelling server and I whisper a guy I would like to practice with… They are mostly helpful.

If I wanna do any serious PvP I head to Unranked even if solo… Sure I usually play with one-two guild members and on TS obviously.

Please believe me this:

The full premade on Unranked is not an issue… The main problem is:

There is no Ranked at this moment so all the very skilled e-sport lads and gals are mopping the floor with me

Just wait till 1 of December (if I remember correctly) and we all gonna have a breathing room…

Do not give up!

Shap.7562:

What is so hard about fixing PvP teams in this game ? almost every game goes 2v3, then 3v4 and then 4v5, since people can see the scores before joining a team they just join the winning team.

Its such an easy fix.. if its 2v2, when a 5th person joins, it cant make it 2v3 which is an obvious unfair advantage in capturing points. Just lock the 5th person out, til a 6th joins. Make them go in spectate mode and lock them in the team they originally joined.

What is so hard about this? And if someone leaves a game, making it 5v4, or whatever, just make it so the person on the opposite team who has the lowest points is unable to play (teleports to starting zone and cant leave starting zone til another player joins)

seriously, what is so complicated about fixing this ?

Sorry, but hotjoins do not represent this game’s PvP or the game’s matchmaking experience. Players do not compete in hotjoins. Players compete in Ranked/League and practice competitively in Unranked PvP.

Hotjoins is not exactly something the community want the Devs to spend large amounts of time and resources on. I rather these resources go towards Leagues, bug fixes, balances. They’re taking enough time on these items as it is…

Saiyan.1704:

Hotjoins is not exactly something the community want the Devs to spend large amounts of time and resources on. I rather these resources go towards Leagues, bug fixes, balances. They’re taking enough time on these items as it is…

While that is true, what we are asking for requires no effort. Whether it is disabling spectators in official hot-join servers, or preventing players from joining the winning team, we’re talking about a 5 minute job. It’s a matter of changing a variable, or adding an if statement in the code. That’s it.

From experience, I can tell you that a lot of new and returning players are having one heck of a bad time in PvP, because they have no one to team up with, and they figure hot-join is the place for them to learn how to play. And honestly, I don’t blame them. It used to be. It should be.

Kayberz.5346:

No one is claiming that unranked matchmaking is perfect, but 99/100 times its better than any matchmaking you will get in hotjoin. Sure getting matched a full premade when your solo is frustrating, but nowhere near as frustrating nor as frequent as getting uneven teams or getting auto swapped to the losing team right befor you were about to win like with hotjoin.

This is like asking for a sandwich. Recieving one with white bread, but then because you prefer wheat bread over white. You ignore the white bread sandwich and continue to eat moldy bread and complain you have no sandwich.

Premades aren’t even that much of a problem in unranked since the matchmaker is usually pretty good at assessing a given premade’s effectiveness and matching them accordingly.

Crinn.7864:

Premades aren’t even that much of a problem in unranked since the matchmaker is usually pretty good at assessing a given premade’s effectiveness and matching them accordingly.

Yes, its pretty good in matching them against me. ;P

Rangelost.4857:

Saiyan.1704:

Hotjoins is not exactly something the community want the Devs to spend large amounts of time and resources on. I rather these resources go towards Leagues, bug fixes, balances. They’re taking enough time on these items as it is…

While that is true, what we are asking for requires no effort. Whether it is disabling spectators in official hot-join servers, or preventing players from joining the winning team, we’re talking about a 5 minute job. It’s a matter of changing a variable, or adding an if statement in the code. That’s it.

From experience, I can tell you that a lot of new and returning players are having one heck of a bad time in PvP, because they have no one to team up with, and they figure hot-join is the place for them to learn how to play. And honestly, I don’t blame them. It used to be. It should be.

exactly, not to mention you cant even que with a team until you are rank 10, so you have to do at least 10+ hours of hotjoin to even play with friends who are above rank 10 – which seems to be ignored in this thread.

I have the Faithful title, ive had this game since its launched but only got to level 50 before hand and came back because ive heard they made huge improvements. But once I hit level 80 and went to do PVP this is easily the worst pub mode PVP settings ive seen in a “PVP game” in my life.. this is not a FPS where 2 very skilled players can over come a 2vs3. This is objective based PVP game where capturing nodes, etc comes into play and a team with larger numbers will win majority of time. Its ridiculous the amount of caping/excuses going on in here “well its not made to be taken serious” is that in the description ? No, of course not, and its also required to even play with your friends in the first place..

To the above people saying “why are you demanding ANET change things just play unranked”:

Hotjoin used to be good. The teams were essentially locked, and team stacking rarely happened. This whole problem started when they introduced spectator mode into hotjoin.

Ironically, the people that wanted spectator mode were the esports crowd, not the casual hotjoiners. Don’t change it- revert it back to the quite enjoyable and functional state it was in before you dropped spectator mode in and ruined it.

I always treated hotjoin servers like FPS servers of old. People are constantly coming and going, and you aren’t guaranteed a fair fight. Whenever I roll into a hotjoin and it asks for a volunteer to join the other team, I always take it.

I suppose ANet could only allow someone to join a team with fewer players, or if someone attempts to join a team when they are even, then they get put in stasis until someone joins up on the other team, to keep teams even. Then when someone leaves, because hotjoin is come-and-go, they can put people on the team with more in stasis to keep teams even. That’s about as far as I can think they can make it.

Otherwise, it’s a free realm to join and leave at will. If people couldn’t abuse spectator mode, or whatever they are doing, then they’d just leave and unbalance teams that way. Unranked is the best place to get your more even fights. If you’re worried about teams being unbalanced (they often aren’t in my experience), make a friend or two and queue up with them to get some semblance of teamwork.

I just don’t get why people put so much weight into hotjoin. It’s like if I went and complained to Valve because some Counter-Strike servers get unbalanced and I lose sometimes.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I always treated hotjoin servers like FPS servers of old. People are constantly coming and going, and you aren’t guaranteed a fair fight. Whenever I roll into a hotjoin and it asks for a volunteer to join the other team, I always take it.

I suppose ANet could only allow someone to join a team with fewer players, or if someone attempts to join a team when they are even, then they get put in stasis until someone joins up on the other team, to keep teams even. Then when someone leaves, because hotjoin is come-and-go, they can put people on the team with more in stasis to keep teams even. That’s about as far as I can think they can make it.

Otherwise, it’s a free realm to join and leave at will. If people couldn’t abuse spectator mode, or whatever they are doing, then they’d just leave and unbalance teams that way. Unranked is the best place to get your more even fights. If you’re worried about teams being unbalanced (they often aren’t in my experience), make a friend or two and queue up with them to get some semblance of teamwork.

I just don’t get why people put so much weight into hotjoin. It’s like if I went and complained to Valve because some Counter-Strike servers get unbalanced and I lose sometimes.

Please listen and try to understand. For the first year or so when there was no spectator mode hotjoin basically functioned exactly as your second paragraph above describes.

And yes, people did leave as in your third paragraph, but the system then did a great job of rebalancing the teams. And yes, of course if you want to expect a fully committed team working together on winning then unranked and ranked is the way to go.

As to the why, it is nothing like the example in your final paragraph. The issue now is not about whether it is balanced, its the constant cheating, the necessity to play the team stacking and team swapping “meta”.

Hotjoin was originally quite amazing. Imo it was the most well implemented version of “battleground” type pvp in any mmo. Like so much about GW2 it was unique, innovative, and fun. It actually worked very well, no fighting premades, no waiting times, no (or limited) team stacking, none of this team-swapping abuse. Hang out with friends, or indeed make many friends, since being on a specific server you were able to face the same people over and over, and the majority of games I played were fairly even. It was a very refreshing change from similar types of pvp in other mmos.

I played it all the time, almost compulsively. But now I don’t play it, can’t play it at all. I only play unranked or ranked now. So why do I care? Because its like they took my favourite ice-cream and then decided to put kitten in it. Then they forced all new players to eat this ice-cream with kitten.

When I started GW2, I got addicted to eating the most delicious ice-cream ever made and so I am still always coming back for more (although now I have to go to unranked/ranked to get it). How do you expect new players to react to being force fed kitten though? They are just going to think, “are you kidding me I am not eating this kitten!” And go and play something else.

If you want traditional battlegrounds/team deathmatch with sort of rules/even numbers, then unranked is the way to go.

As others have said, Hot join is random and is meant more as a testing ground, even the rewards are less.

nacario.9417:

If you want traditional battlegrounds/team deathmatch with sort of rules/even numbers, then unranked is the way to go.

As others have said, Hot join is random and is meant more as a testing ground, even the rewards are less.

Did you even read any of my posts? Jeez, its like talking to people with wool in their ears.

It’s even worse than that. With all them premades in hotjoin too these days. Full guild teams in hotjoin just spamming them voice coms all over the place coordinating and kitten.

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

If you want traditional battlegrounds/team deathmatch with sort of rules/even numbers, then unranked is the way to go.

As others have said, Hot join is random and is meant more as a testing ground, even the rewards are less.

Did you even read any of my posts? Jeez, its like talking to people with wool in their ears.

Why do you expect people to listen to you when you throw insults around? Is that how you are in real life, must be quite a breeze.
Since I am such a nice person without wool in my ears I will explain to you that I am writing to OP that is complaining about Hot joins, and how they work. Therefore I am merely explaining the take veteran players have on Hot joins, what OP wants in reality is unranked/ranked mentality – hence why he should go there.

And no I did not read any of your posts, sorry if that is insulting, but OP made the thread not you.

nacario.9417:

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

If you want traditional battlegrounds/team deathmatch with sort of rules/even numbers, then unranked is the way to go.

As others have said, Hot join is random and is meant more as a testing ground, even the rewards are less.

Did you even read any of my posts? Jeez, its like talking to people with wool in their ears.

Why do you expect people to listen to you when you throw insults around? Is that how you are in real life, must be quite a breeze.
Since I am such a nice person without wool in my ears I will explain to you that I am writing to OP that is complaining about Hot joins, and how they work. Therefore I am merely explaining the take veteran players have on Hot joins, what OP wants in reality is unranked/ranked mentality – hence why he should go there.

And no I did not read any of your posts, sorry if that is insulting, but OP made the thread not you.

But you didn’t read any other posts in the thread explaining why veteran pvpers think hotjoin should be fixed, and furthermore decided to remain ignorant of other players’ opinions by still not taking the time to read anyone else’s posts on the topic, instead spending your energy on passive aggressive insult throwing.

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

If you want traditional battlegrounds/team deathmatch with sort of rules/even numbers, then unranked is the way to go.

As others have said, Hot join is random and is meant more as a testing ground, even the rewards are less.

Did you even read any of my posts? Jeez, its like talking to people with wool in their ears.

Why do you expect people to listen to you when you throw insults around? Is that how you are in real life, must be quite a breeze.
Since I am such a nice person without wool in my ears I will explain to you that I am writing to OP that is complaining about Hot joins, and how they work. Therefore I am merely explaining the take veteran players have on Hot joins, what OP wants in reality is unranked/ranked mentality – hence why he should go there.

And no I did not read any of your posts, sorry if that is insulting, but OP made the thread not you.

But you didn’t read any other posts in the thread explaining why veteran pvpers think hotjoin should be fixed, and furthermore decided to remain ignorant of other players’ opinions by still not taking the time to read anyone else’s posts on the topic, instead spending your energy on passive aggressive insult throwing.

Because I dont have to? Everyone has their opinion that they share, I addressed OP based on his concern and moved on as this is a dead horse, Hot joins have even been abused to rank farm, which is fine for Anet, that says enough. Your concern is that I didnt read your reply many posts below and therefore I got wools in my ears apparently Sadly I am not as adept and can have a 100% overview all the time, being able to read every little tidbit and prevent frustration.

I would love to see OP release a solution for that,
i’ve never see any public server in any games that can keep a constant even number of the same people..

lighter.2708:

I would love to see OP release a solution for that,
i’ve never see any public server in any games that can keep a constant even number of the same people..

Agreed, I remember old CS lobbies would just be people attempting to follow one player from team to team because he was killing everyone. Hotjoins same crap happens.

Also what the kitten is up with this whole thing where people constantly pulling the “WTF Did You even read my post bro” everytime someone disagrees…. it’s ridiculous.

nacario.9417:

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

If you want traditional battlegrounds/team deathmatch with sort of rules/even numbers, then unranked is the way to go.

As others have said, Hot join is random and is meant more as a testing ground, even the rewards are less.

Did you even read any of my posts? Jeez, its like talking to people with wool in their ears.

Why do you expect people to listen to you when you throw insults around? Is that how you are in real life, must be quite a breeze.
Since I am such a nice person without wool in my ears I will explain to you that I am writing to OP that is complaining about Hot joins, and how they work. Therefore I am merely explaining the take veteran players have on Hot joins, what OP wants in reality is unranked/ranked mentality – hence why he should go there.

And no I did not read any of your posts, sorry if that is insulting, but OP made the thread not you.

But you didn’t read any other posts in the thread explaining why veteran pvpers think hotjoin should be fixed, and furthermore decided to remain ignorant of other players’ opinions by still not taking the time to read anyone else’s posts on the topic, instead spending your energy on passive aggressive insult throwing.

Because I dont have to? Everyone has their opinion that they share, I addressed OP based on his concern and moved on as this is a dead horse, Hot joins have even been abused to rank farm, which is fine for Anet, that says enough. Your concern is that I didnt read your reply many posts below and therefore I got wools in my ears apparently Sadly I am not as adept and can have a 100% overview all the time, being able to read every little tidbit and prevent frustration.

I wish the OP and other ppl who need to test their new builds and classes in some kind of fair game will join your team in unranked/ranked as often as possible. Guess you will be happy.

NeXeD.3042:

lighter.2708:

I would love to see OP release a solution for that,
i’ve never see any public server in any games that can keep a constant even number of the same people..

Agreed, I remember old CS lobbies would just be people attempting to follow one player from team to team because he was killing everyone. Hotjoins same crap happens.

Also what the kitten is up with this whole thing where people constantly pulling the “WTF Did You even read my post bro” everytime someone disagrees…. it’s ridiculous.

it is public server after all, even if people don’t follow the best player, people join people leave, the server change map on it’self upon finishing a match, there will still be uneven matches

You people keep saying to “FIX” hotjoin when its not broken. Hotjoin is working exactly as intended. All these things about hotjoin that you want to change/remove would defeate the whole purpose of what its for in the first place, if you started locking teams and not letting people join if it made the match uneven it would completely kill the whole quick joining with no queue functionality and just make it a more clunky version of unranked

The problem isnt the systems in hotjoin, the problem is YOU stubbornly refusing to use the correct game mode for competitive pvp.

nacario.9417:

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

Yasha.5963:

nacario.9417:

If you want traditional battlegrounds/team deathmatch with sort of rules/even numbers, then unranked is the way to go.

As others have said, Hot join is random and is meant more as a testing ground, even the rewards are less.

Did you even read any of my posts? Jeez, its like talking to people with wool in their ears.

Why do you expect people to listen to you when you throw insults around? Is that how you are in real life, must be quite a breeze.
Since I am such a nice person without wool in my ears I will explain to you that I am writing to OP that is complaining about Hot joins, and how they work. Therefore I am merely explaining the take veteran players have on Hot joins, what OP wants in reality is unranked/ranked mentality – hence why he should go there.

And no I did not read any of your posts, sorry if that is insulting, but OP made the thread not you.

But you didn’t read any other posts in the thread explaining why veteran pvpers think hotjoin should be fixed, and furthermore decided to remain ignorant of other players’ opinions by still not taking the time to read anyone else’s posts on the topic, instead spending your energy on passive aggressive insult throwing.

Because I dont have to? Everyone has their opinion that they share, I addressed OP based on his concern and moved on as this is a dead horse, Hot joins have even been abused to rank farm, which is fine for Anet, that says enough. Your concern is that I didnt read your reply many posts below and therefore I got wools in my ears apparently Sadly I am not as adept and can have a 100% overview all the time, being able to read every little tidbit and prevent frustration.

Hotjoin used to be good before they implemented spectator mode, many games were fairly balanced and there was nothing like the team stacking and abuse of team swapping that goes on now.

When you entered this conversation, there were not that many posts, not even a second page. You just looked at the topic yelled out your totally unfounded opinion and only came back because I called you out on it. And you still refuse to listen to anyone else’s opinion about the matter. Its just arrogance.

Kayberz.5346:

You people keep saying to “FIX” hotjoin when its not broken. Hotjoin is working exactly as intended. All these things about hotjoin that you want to change/remove would defeate the whole purpose of what its for in the first place, if you started locking teams and not letting people join if it made the match uneven it would completely kill the whole quick joining with no queue functionality and just make it a more clunky version of unranked

The problem isnt the systems in hotjoin, the problem is YOU stubbornly refusing to use the correct game mode for competitive pvp.

No actually, in the first place hotjoin was all those things the OP and others have talked about. There was no “meta game” of team swapping and team stacking. It was still a fluid drop in drop out system, but the auto balancing actually worked because you couldn’t abuse the spectator mechanic to just swap teams and so forth.

Yasha.5963:

Please listen and try to understand.

Your mistake is thinking that if I understood, I would agree. You’re wrong. I do understand what you’re saying, but I still disagree. I think hotjoin acts as a public server did back in old FPS days (no clue if games still handle public servers like this). You hop in whenever, teams are rarely balanced unless the server is full, and you just play to play. No additional logic required.

If you want my opinion (most probably don’t), I think one of the biggest issues is rewarding hotjoin with anything at all. You should get nothing for playing hotjoin, or everyone, win or lose, should get the same amount of glory/reward track progress/whatever. The latter is probably more reasonable given they’ve created an environment of reward, but I don’t think winning and losing should matter in an open, public game.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Please listen and try to understand.

Your mistake is thinking that if I understood, I would agree. You’re wrong. I do understand what you’re saying, but I still disagree. I think hotjoin acts as a public server did back in old FPS days (no clue if games still handle public servers like this). You hop in whenever, teams are rarely balanced unless the server is full, and you just play to play. No additional logic required.

If you want my opinion (most probably don’t), I think one of the biggest issues is rewarding hotjoin with anything at all. You should get nothing for playing hotjoin, or everyone, win or lose, should get the same amount of glory/reward track progress/whatever. The latter is probably more reasonable given they’ve created an environment of reward, but I don’t think winning and losing should matter in an open, public game.

Why would you disagree with taking out spectator mode and letting everyone new to the game enjoy that wonderful ice-cream again?

As to rewards, yeah I don’t care about them all that much, not much point especially in hotjoin as it is now. That was one approach people discussed a while ago to try and help limit people from basically cheating the system.

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Please listen and try to understand.

Your mistake is thinking that if I understood, I would agree. You’re wrong. I do understand what you’re saying, but I still disagree. I think hotjoin acts as a public server did back in old FPS days (no clue if games still handle public servers like this). You hop in whenever, teams are rarely balanced unless the server is full, and you just play to play. No additional logic required.

If you want my opinion (most probably don’t), I think one of the biggest issues is rewarding hotjoin with anything at all. You should get nothing for playing hotjoin, or everyone, win or lose, should get the same amount of glory/reward track progress/whatever. The latter is probably more reasonable given they’ve created an environment of reward, but I don’t think winning and losing should matter in an open, public game.

Why would you disagree with taking out spectator mode and letting everyone new to the game enjoy that wonderful ice-cream again?

As to rewards, yeah I don’t care about them all that much, not much point especially in hotjoin as it is now. That was one approach people discussed a while ago to try and help limit people from basically cheating the system.

Spectator mode is where you can go to view how someone plays and what their spec is, correct? It’s like popping to spectator in an public FPS server when someone is destroying you. Maybe you want to watch them for tips and gain some insight, whether they are your own class or they are a class you are having trouble with. You can analyze their traits, weapons, sigils, amulet, everything, and do some learning. Spectator mode has its purpose.

Is it because people use it as a staging ground, wait for someone to even up teams, then join the team they want to join to win? Is that how Spectator mode is being used? Would this be a problem if there was no incentive to win a game mode where you can just swap around teams easily, or leave on a whim?

Removing Spectator, which I think is a potentially useful tool for new players if they would only acknowledge that they are still bad and are working towards getting better, sounds like a patchwork solution. If they are going to try to fix it, they might as well try to make it better. For example, if you willingly switch teams mid-match, you get 0 reward. You only get reward if you switch via volunteer. Or if you go Spectator, you can only rejoin the team you left, unless you use Volunteer to switch.

Solutions exist that aren’t “rip out spectator mode”, and I support those more if they are going to fix it. However, I also think people need to worry less about losing and just play the game. Especially in hotjoin. Even CS public servers felt so much more about KDR, and much less about who won more rounds. It’s whatever.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Please listen and try to understand.

Your mistake is thinking that if I understood, I would agree. You’re wrong. I do understand what you’re saying, but I still disagree. I think hotjoin acts as a public server did back in old FPS days (no clue if games still handle public servers like this). You hop in whenever, teams are rarely balanced unless the server is full, and you just play to play. No additional logic required.

If you want my opinion (most probably don’t), I think one of the biggest issues is rewarding hotjoin with anything at all. You should get nothing for playing hotjoin, or everyone, win or lose, should get the same amount of glory/reward track progress/whatever. The latter is probably more reasonable given they’ve created an environment of reward, but I don’t think winning and losing should matter in an open, public game.

Why would you disagree with taking out spectator mode and letting everyone new to the game enjoy that wonderful ice-cream again?

As to rewards, yeah I don’t care about them all that much, not much point especially in hotjoin as it is now. That was one approach people discussed a while ago to try and help limit people from basically cheating the system.

Spectator mode is where you can go to view how someone plays and what their spec is, correct? It’s like popping to spectator in an public FPS server when someone is destroying you. Maybe you want to watch them for tips and gain some insight, whether they are your own class or they are a class you are having trouble with. You can analyze their traits, weapons, sigils, amulet, everything, and do some learning. Spectator mode has its purpose.

Is it because people use it as a staging ground, wait for someone to even up teams, then join the team they want to join to win? Is that how Spectator mode is being used? Would this be a problem if there was no incentive to win a game mode where you can just swap around teams easily, or leave on a whim?

Removing Spectator, which I think is a potentially useful tool for new players if they would only acknowledge that they are still bad and are working towards getting better, sounds like a patchwork solution. If they are going to try to fix it, they might as well try to make it better. For example, if you willingly switch teams mid-match, you get 0 reward. You only get reward if you switch via volunteer. Or if you go Spectator, you can only rejoin the team you left, unless you use Volunteer to switch.

Solutions exist that aren’t “rip out spectator mode”, and I support those more if they are going to fix it. However, I also think people need to worry less about losing and just play the game. Especially in hotjoin. Even CS public servers felt so much more about KDR, and much less about who won more rounds. It’s whatever.

See its not so much about losing as it is just the terrible experience that this team-swapping/ team stacking through abuse of spectator mode brings. Hotjoin actually used to be a fun experience for new players, and a good place to test builds. It doesn’t do a good job on either of those points these days.

Tweaking rewards as you suggest could be one way to address the issue (at least the swapping part), but ideally the rules would be changed to “if you go Spectator, you can only rejoin the team you left, unless you use Volunteer to switch”. Its a totally logical solution, right? Why it was implemented in a way that gives free reign to rampant abuse and then just left that way to rot all this time is … confusing. Preventing team stacking under the spectate system might be more difficult.

But basically yes, like you say in the best case scenario spectate would be fixed and then new players would have the chance to have an amazing experience.