Guild Wars 2

Hello, everyone. With this month’s changes to quickness and even steath, some burst classes, like the warrior and the thief, and certainly the mesmer too, have gotten a hit at their activation speed. Although I can understand it was unfair to fellow warriors, this thread is not about it.

Before this patch, I was having a hard time playing with untypical glass cannon squishies. There were a few reasons for those:
1. Alternative glass cannons were easily destroyed by quickned bursts from meta glass cannons, without the means to burst back or defend back at equal efficiency.
(1. 2. As a side note, that made those builds very unfun too).
2. Thieves and mesmers have stealth and clones, which are very strong defensive mechanics, although the later more so in crowds. This put them at advantage for zerker builds and the like.

I’m an elementalist player, and although I’ve used boon-bunker builds frequently (and recognize that they were strong, and even more so now), I personally prefer to be an offensive-oriented mage. I did pick the elementalist because, afterall, it was advertised as the class of elemental “destruction” and epic effects. And so it’s common for me to attempt to create offensive ele builds every once and then, and try to make them as competitive as possible. I don’t know about other alternative glass cannon builds for other professions, but damage eles have a few new slice of problems in addition to the general problems I’ve mentioned above, some of those which were only made worse by the old burst speed. In my opinion, they are:
1. Poor selection of fire (and air) traits for bursting/ damage. Even for condition damage, fire + earth is lacking efficient traits. However, this can be offset by taking most of the “bunker” traits (note: that does not makes them a bunker without cleric’s amulet), which are pretty much their “good” traits, some exceptions aside, and go with an offensive amulet (and I’m even talking about Berserker). It works fine for itself, but:
2. Twice the skills, twice the time spent to protect themselves. This is fine for bunkers, who can survive in time to use all their defensive skills (and thus further strengthen their defense), but as a glass cannon, it was just nearly impossible (for me at least) to use, say, 10 skills to survive against a burst that only requires 5 skills (arbitrary numbers).

However, these last few days, this glass cannon build has become far more enjoyable to me. A sudden backstab, a sudden hundred blades, a sudden time warp, they all make combat more challenging, but I actually feel I can react to them, counter them, dance agaisnt those classes. Battles between burst vs burst have been lasting longer to me, feeling less like a random “predict I’m going to burst you in one second or die lol” rock-paper-scissors game, and more like actual, engaging combat. I’ve been losing and winning against thieves, warriors, etc, but I actually feel my losses were deserved (well, outside of heartseeking me to death. I still hate that skill due to how easy it is to use :P).

Has anyone gotten a similar impression since last patch, or am I the only one? Can alternative glass cannon builds have room to breath now – now that they can no longer be easily countered by quickness glass cannons?

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

Playing post patch has actually been much more enjoyable IMO. Toning down quickness was a great first step, now they can focus on other changes without hitting the law of unintended consequences.

That’s why there wasn’t much meta shift, too many changes at once would t be healthy. You balance with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer.

Empiren.6401:

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

Please, you should first read the thread before making false accusations, and second, understand the difference between a build and an entire profession.

Empiren.6401:

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

Dude..Of course he is happy.The cheese on the burst side of gw2 is being eliminated so other classes can have a piece of the cake too.I dont see anything wrong with that unless you think thief should run only burst and ele only bunker.

And then you were backstabbed from +15% dmg + 5 stacks of might.

kostbabis.8791:

Empiren.6401:

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

Dude..Of course he is happy.The cheese on the burst side of gw2 is being eliminated so other classes can have a piece of the cake too.I dont see anything wrong with that unless you think thief should run only burst and ele only bunker.

You honestly thing burst is gone? Outside of warrior every other proffession has alternatives to quickness.

:/ really. How naive.

At least i wont eat the whole chain until the hs before my reaction times and internet latency lets me click on my stunbreaker..
Also this means i can drop that passive no skill trait that stunbreakes at 50% hp or the other that blocks at 25%..
And on top of that i can somewhat enjoy time warps from my mesmer teammate without feeling i take a kitten on enemy team without mesm
And burst shouldnt be gone!?!Why should it :S

Empiren.6401:

You honestly thing burst is gone? Outside of warrior every other proffession has alternatives to quickness.

:/ really. How naive.

And many of those alternatives were not viable, because they were easily countered by quickness builds. That’s the point. Now that quickness was nerfed, several glass cannon builds that were not viable before have a chance to become viable now. First, because they were competing against extreme bursting, which no longer exists at the state it did. Second, because they were countered by that very same extreme burst building.

Glass cannon elementalists are the example that I can give, of a build that was not optimal due to how quickly it was decimated by extreme bursts, but now has room to breath to do its stuff, in addition to its weaker burst competition.

Rofl this thread is epic. I also have an elementalist as second class and I can tell ya GC Ele is as OP as the bunker. I mean I can easily destroy an entire group when their positioning is bad. During my rotation I do about 15-20k AOE damage.

Now we do abnormal damage, have a panic button and still a better survivability than a thief. Seems legit

kostbabis.8791:

Empiren.6401:

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

I dont see anything wrong with that unless you think thief should run only burst and ele only bunker.

So just to sum up this thread:

Eles can bunker
Eles can now burst (because burst classes like thieves and warriors are now easily killable..even on a bursty light armor ele).

It’s not that eles should only bunk and thieves only burst. It’s that it shouldn’t be eles burst AND bunk.. and warriors/thieves L2reroll.

as I said in my thread, it’s only about time.

why having a thief when an ele can burst for 15k + AoE and refull its health every 15 secs or so, while being IN the fight , contesting points, instead of being OUT of it, with the shirtbow, while also giving buffs/removing conditions and while being a much faster roamer etc. etc. ?

it’s time to reroll, eles cannot be stopped anymore

Well, to be honest, I don’t think ele glass cannons are that strong. In fact, their bursts are very unreliable, it just so happens that builds with berzerker amulet have now more room to breath and do their stuff.

I don’t see what is the problem of a profession having two viable builds instead of one. Is that some kind of luxury? I know some professions have been or are at a worse state, but there are also professions that have 2-3 viable pvp builds. This is, what, the first time that players who want an offensive elemental spellcaster in pvp have the chance to use one without being wasting a party’s slot?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Well, to be honest, I don’t think ele glass cannons are that strong. In fact, their bursts are very unreliable, it just so happens that builds with berzerker amulet have now more room to breath and do their stuff.

I don’t see what is the problem of a profession having two viable builds instead of one. Is that some kind of luxury? I know some professions have been or are at a worse state, but there are also professions that have 2-3 viable pvp builds. This is, what, the first time that players who want an offensive elemental spellcaster in pvp have the chance to use it without being terrible bad?

Can’t you see the problem here ?

Eles were already dominating with that kitten bunker build with S/D;

now, since quickness can no longer punish “mistakes”, eles can start running mixed offensive builds ( zerker builds are not optimal when the sustained dps version of the ele is so strong) going X-X-X-15-30 or X-X-X-20-30 with valkyrie and arcane utilities, or S/D with zerker, make 4 eles teams and demolish everything in their sight, refulling into seconds and ressing each other NO STOP.

On my DPS ele ( 0-20-0-20-30 with valk ammo and arcane utilities), a dps combo ( switch to air, RTL-updraft-burning spedd + arcane blast-wave+ ring of fire + fire grab) can easily deal around 15 k damage AOE, and i’m talking about a TANKY DPS.

Now there’s no way to punish ele stacking, we’re in the new ele meta, where a 4 eles team + guard can not only be viable, but competitive and , probably, unbeatable.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Well, to be honest, I don’t think ele glass cannons are that strong. In fact, their bursts are very unreliable, it just so happens that builds with berzerker amulet have now more room to breath and do their stuff.

I don’t see what is the problem of a profession having two viable builds instead of one. Is that some kind of luxury? I know some professions have been or are at a worse state, but there are also professions that have 2-3 viable pvp builds. This is, what, the first time that players who want an offensive elemental spellcaster in pvp have the chance to use one without being wasting a party’s slot?

In the long run you are right. This has the potential to open up more builds for other classes. The problem is some classes (warrior, thief, and ranger(?)) are now hurting because they have lost options. They will have to suffer through even less choices till the developers start bringing in this boon hate and helping other weapon sets. Thieves now resort to Dagger/X / Shortbow builds as swords are really hurting. A lot of thief weapons made use of haste and now swords is suffering.

Also, be aware that some people will see that you are an elementalist, roll their eyes, and tune you out. No one wants to be told by one of the dominant classes that they are having more fun. It comes across as rubbing salt in a wound.

Back on topic, I think there is real and legitimate concern that bunkers could take over what’s left of team PvP. While you are having fun on your burst elementalist you might run into a 5-team bunker setup that takes all the fun out of the game. I am not convinced that will happen but it is a concern. Warriors and thieves (not sure who else) will hopefully get some of this boon hate love next patch.

Mrbig.8019:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Well, to be honest, I don’t think ele glass cannons are that strong. In fact, their bursts are very unreliable, it just so happens that builds with berzerker amulet have now more room to breath and do their stuff.

I don’t see what is the problem of a profession having two viable builds instead of one. Is that some kind of luxury? I know some professions have been or are at a worse state, but there are also professions that have 2-3 viable pvp builds. This is, what, the first time that players who want an offensive elemental spellcaster in pvp have the chance to use it without being terrible bad?

Can’t you see the problem here ?

Eles were already dominating with that kitten bunker build with S/D;

now, since quickness can no longer punish “mistakes”, eles can start running mixed offensive builds ( zerker builds are not optimal when the sustained dps version of the ele is so strong) going X-X-X-15-30 or X-X-X-20-30 with valkyrie and arcane utilities, or S/D with zerker, make 4 eles teams and demolish everything in their sight, refulling into seconds and ressing each other NO STOP.

On my DPS ele ( 0-20-0-20-30 with valk ammo and arcane utilities), a dps combo ( switch to air, RTL-updraft-burning spedd + arcane blast-wave+ ring of fire + fire grab) can easily deal around 15 k damage AOE, and i’m talking about a TANKY DPS.

Now there’s no way to punish ele stacking, we’re in the new ele meta, where a 4 eles team + guard can not only be viable, but competitive and , probably, unbeatable.

I don’t want to speak for him, but I think you are going beyond the scope of what he is saying. He isn’t rejecting that or denying that bunkers are not an issue. he is simply saying that elementalist that don’t want to run the cheap-O-bunker build now has a chance to run glass canon.

Without a fear of nearly instant unreactive death, ele can trade some survival to damage.

silvermember.8941:

Mrbig.8019:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Well, to be honest, I don’t think ele glass cannons are that strong. In fact, their bursts are very unreliable, it just so happens that builds with berzerker amulet have now more room to breath and do their stuff.

I don’t see what is the problem of a profession having two viable builds instead of one. Is that some kind of luxury? I know some professions have been or are at a worse state, but there are also professions that have 2-3 viable pvp builds. This is, what, the first time that players who want an offensive elemental spellcaster in pvp have the chance to use it without being terrible bad?

Can’t you see the problem here ?

Eles were already dominating with that kitten bunker build with S/D;

now, since quickness can no longer punish “mistakes”, eles can start running mixed offensive builds ( zerker builds are not optimal when the sustained dps version of the ele is so strong) going X-X-X-15-30 or X-X-X-20-30 with valkyrie and arcane utilities, or S/D with zerker, make 4 eles teams and demolish everything in their sight, refulling into seconds and ressing each other NO STOP.

On my DPS ele ( 0-20-0-20-30 with valk ammo and arcane utilities), a dps combo ( switch to air, RTL-updraft-burning spedd + arcane blast-wave+ ring of fire + fire grab) can easily deal around 15 k damage AOE, and i’m talking about a TANKY DPS.

Now there’s no way to punish ele stacking, we’re in the new ele meta, where a 4 eles team + guard can not only be viable, but competitive and , probably, unbeatable.

I don’t want to speak for him, but I think you are going beyond the scope of what he is saying. He isn’t rejecting that or denying that bunkers are not an issue. he is simply saying that elementalist that don’t want to run the cheap-O-bunker build now has a chance to run glass canon.

Without a fear of nearly instant unreactive death, ele can trade some survival to damage.

I don’t think you get his point.
His point is now since there won’t be any burst spike build to bring down eles,
they can go “more offensive” build while “almost equally survivable” because they no longer have to worry about being burst down.

They have more margin for errors,
and can dish out even more damage than it used to be now/

The idea of bunker eles getting more damage without losing much survivability is worthy of concern, but I was truly talking about builds that want to stay far from bunker. Granted, I still need to use some defensive traits and defensive utilities because other options are worse, but playing with a glass cannon ele is far more satisfying now.

Any change that gets eles out of the OP quadrule cantrip cleric’s build is a good development. Nobody worth anything complains about valk eles with 10+ points in air and arcane utilities. They’re competitive with other top builds in the meta, and have strong counters.

Mrbig.8019:

Eles were already dominating with that kitten bunker build with S/D;

Quickness warriors were never a counter to bunker eles. Thieves generally didn’t need quickness to put out their burst to begin with, and it had fallen out of use with a lot of people.

On my DPS ele ( 0-20-0-20-30 with valk ammo and arcane utilities), a dps combo ( switch to air, RTL-updraft-burning spedd + arcane blast-wave+ ring of fire + fire grab) can easily deal around 15 k damage AOE, and i’m talking about a TANKY DPS.

There’s a roughly 2.5% chance that all of those abilities crit (assuming 20% base crit chance + fury) and it takes about 4.5 seconds to pull off. You’re really stretching the terms “burst” and “DPS ele” to the out limits.

Anyone who still dies to RTL -> updraft -> burning speed probably deserves to. What is this, October?

Now there’s no way to punish ele stacking, we’re in the new ele meta, where a 4 eles team + guard can not only be viable, but competitive and , probably, unbeatable.

I would take a guardian, mesmer/ranger, thief, ele and engi team over a 4x ele + guardian team, especially if the eles are all wearing valks and didn’t spec 30 water for condition removal. It would not only wipe the floor with a 4 ele team, it would be much more difficult to counter comp.

Caffynated.5713:

Any change that gets eles out of the OP quadrule cantrip cleric’s build is a good development. Nobody worth anything complains about valk eles with 10+ points in air and arcane utilities. They’re competitive with other top builds in the meta, and have strong counters.

Mrbig.8019:

Eles were already dominating with that kitten bunker build with S/D;

Quickness warriors were never a counter to bunker eles. Thieves generally didn’t need quickness to put out their burst to begin with, and it had fallen out of use with a lot of people.

On my DPS ele ( 0-20-0-20-30 with valk ammo and arcane utilities), a dps combo ( switch to air, RTL-updraft-burning spedd + arcane blast-wave+ ring of fire + fire grab) can easily deal around 15 k damage AOE, and i’m talking about a TANKY DPS.

There’s a roughly 2.5% chance that all of those abilities crit (assuming 20% base crit chance + fury) and it takes about 4.5 seconds to pull off. You’re really stretching the terms “burst” and “DPS ele” to the out limits.

Anyone who still dies to RTL -> updraft -> burning speed probably deserves to. What is this, October?

Now there’s no way to punish ele stacking, we’re in the new ele meta, where a 4 eles team + guard can not only be viable, but competitive and , probably, unbeatable.

I would take a guardian, mesmer/ranger, thief, ele and engi team over a 4x ele + guardian team, especially if the eles are all wearing valks and didn’t spec 30 water for condition removal. It would not only wipe the floor with a 4 ele team, it would be much more difficult to counter comp.

Quickness wars could punish an ele out of stunbreaks and down him 100% of the time.
Quickness thieves could punish an ele just the same.

Quickness was the only way to punish an ele for overextending.

And no, i’m not exagerating about the damage, neither about the burst. Maybe it’s not as lethal as a single burst and of course more difficult to land , but it can be done more often and the ele still has more sustaining power and DPS than ALL other classes.

The issue becomes pretty clear if you stack more eles: you can’t dodge forever, and it’s all AoE anyway.

And no, conditions are not really a problem when you have a shout guardian covered by double S/D bunker eles with 30 in water removing 2 conditions on AoE every 10 secs and running through the map at super fast speed.

Add 2 D/D eles removing 1 AoE condition every 10 secs, and i really doubt you’ll be able to anything to them with necros and engies.

As I said, i would NEVER make a team with less than 2 eles + guardian
Maybe you can run engies, rangers or necros along with them, but there’s no competitive comp without double ele + guard.

And since now there’s nothing able to punish ele stacking, 4 eles team will become soon a sad reality.

Caffynated.5713:

Any change that gets eles out of the OP quadrule cantrip cleric’s build is a good development. Nobody worth anything complains about valk eles with 10+ points in air and arcane utilities. They’re competitive with other top builds in the meta, and have strong counters.

Mrbig.8019:

Eles were already dominating with that kitten bunker build with S/D;

Quickness warriors were never a counter to bunker eles. Thieves generally didn’t need quickness to put out their burst to begin with, and it had fallen out of use with a lot of people.

On my DPS ele ( 0-20-0-20-30 with valk ammo and arcane utilities), a dps combo ( switch to air, RTL-updraft-burning spedd + arcane blast-wave+ ring of fire + fire grab) can easily deal around 15 k damage AOE, and i’m talking about a TANKY DPS.

There’s a roughly 2.5% chance that all of those abilities crit (assuming 20% base crit chance + fury) and it takes about 4.5 seconds to pull off. You’re really stretching the terms “burst” and “DPS ele” to the out limits.

Anyone who still dies to RTL -> updraft -> burning speed probably deserves to. What is this, October?

Now there’s no way to punish ele stacking, we’re in the new ele meta, where a 4 eles team + guard can not only be viable, but competitive and , probably, unbeatable.

I would take a guardian, mesmer/ranger, thief, ele and engi team over a 4x ele + guardian team, especially if the eles are all wearing valks and didn’t spec 30 water for condition removal. It would not only wipe the floor with a 4 ele team, it would be much more difficult to counter comp.

Outside healing bots with cleric amulet, a 4 dps ele team will automatically place you at the bottom of the ladder, month after month; last time I heard about full ele team was in GW1 and there you still neeeded some skills to pull of a well timed invoke.
Here people tell me that would go around with double arcane eles…unless you plan to hit people by surprise, your burst attempt will fail 90% of times.

Mrbig.8019:

Quickness wars could punish an ele out of stunbreaks and down him 100% of the time.
Quickness thieves could punish an ele just the same.

Quickness was the only way to punish an ele for overextending.

A bunker ele who has burned 4 stun breakers and a nearly unlimited number of dodges would just leave, wait 20 seconds and come back. It’s why the quad cantrip bunker is OP.

As far as thieves, didn’t you just go over that (and get wrecked) in this thread?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-you-going-to-do-something-about-thieves/first

And no, i’m not exagerating about the damage, neither about the burst. Maybe it’s not as lethal as a single burst and of course more difficult to land , but it can be done more often and the ele still has more sustaining power and DPS than ALL other classes.

I didn’t say the damage was exaggerated. I said it happens 2.5% of all attempts, is easy to dodge, and takes nine times longer to pull off than thief burst (for far less damage). As far as frequency, nearly half the damage comes from firegrab which is a 45 second cooldown.

The issue becomes pretty clear if you stack more eles: you can’t dodge forever, and it’s all AoE anyway.

And no, conditions are not really a problem when you have a shout guardian covered by double S/D bunker eles with 30 in water removing 2 conditions on AoE every 10 secs and running through the map at super fast speed.

Add 2 D/D eles removing 1 AoE condition every 10 secs, and i really doubt you’ll be able to anything to them with necros and engies.

As I said, i would NEVER make a team with less than 2 eles + guardian
Maybe you can run engies, rangers or necros along with them, but there’s no competitive comp without double ele + guard.

And since now there’s nothing able to punish ele stacking, 4 eles team will become soon a sad reality.

People have been saying four and five ele teams were going to take over the game for 3+ months. Still waiting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny

Caffynated.5713:

Mrbig.8019:

Quickness wars could punish an ele out of stunbreaks and down him 100% of the time.
Quickness thieves could punish an ele just the same.

Quickness was the only way to punish an ele for overextending.

A bunker ele who has burned 4 stun breakers and a nearly unlimited number of dodges would just leave, wait 20 seconds and come back. It’s why the quad cantrip bunker is OP.

As far as thieves, didn’t you just go over that (and get wrecked) in this thread?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-you-going-to-do-something-about-thieves/first

And no, i’m not exagerating about the damage, neither about the burst. Maybe it’s not as lethal as a single burst and of course more difficult to land , but it can be done more often and the ele still has more sustaining power and DPS than ALL other classes.

I didn’t say the damage was exaggerated. I said it happens 2.5% of all attempts, is easy to dodge, and takes nine times longer to pull off than thief burst (for far less damage). As far as frequency, nearly half the damage comes from firegrab which is a 45 second cooldown.

The issue becomes pretty clear if you stack more eles: you can’t dodge forever, and it’s all AoE anyway.

And no, conditions are not really a problem when you have a shout guardian covered by double S/D bunker eles with 30 in water removing 2 conditions on AoE every 10 secs and running through the map at super fast speed.

Add 2 D/D eles removing 1 AoE condition every 10 secs, and i really doubt you’ll be able to anything to them with necros and engies.

As I said, i would NEVER make a team with less than 2 eles + guardian
Maybe you can run engies, rangers or necros along with them, but there’s no competitive comp without double ele + guard.

And since now there’s nothing able to punish ele stacking, 4 eles team will become soon a sad reality.

People have been saying four and five ele teams were going to take over the game for 3+ months. Still waiting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny

Sad stories tell that a bunker eles can’t outrun a half decent war using rush + bullrush and neither a thief.

If you play an ele and wars-thief let you go away, you were playing against bad wars/thieves.

Moving on…

In my thread i was not wrecked neither it was gone over. There’re people saying thief is fine, yet if you see Saatar thread, Phantaram thread and sPvP tier list ( that includes hotjoin player decisions, too) , the thief is bottom tier in all of them.

The problem is not about thief build being not viable anymore ( it isn’t ), the point is that soon the meta will revolve around bunkerish heavy DPS builds dye to quickness nerf, because now there’s nothing able to punish tanky builds for overextending.

If people in my thread can’t understand it, it’s not my fault.

Moving on….

1: on a 0-20-0-20-30 build, with fury on ( 40 % crit chance) and 250 bloodlust stacks, a single burning speed can hit for over 6 k damage.
Assuming not, burning speed crits for 4 k , arcane blast for 2k , arcane wave for 3k , ring of fire for 2k +.

I’ve already dealth 10 k AoE damage, and i’ve not used fire grab.

Dunno what else i can say.

And now teams can go full eles EXACTLY thanks to quickness nerf.

We’ll see in a week.

Mrbig.8019:

Sad stories tell that a bunker eles can’t outrun a half decent war using rush + bullrush and neither a thief.

If you play an ele and wars-thief let you go away, you were playing against bad wars/thieves.

If an ele has burned 4 stun breakers fighting a warrior, I’m going to go ahead and say bull’s charge is on CD.

But hey, maybe warriors have secretly been beasting all over bunker eles for months and nobody but you noticed.

A thief can certainly run an ele down. Mobility is a big part of why they’re competitive in the meta.

In my thread i was not wrecked neither it was gone over.

I think most people see it differently.

There’re people saying thief is fine, yet if you see Saatar thread, Phantaram thread and sPvP tier list ( that includes hotjoin player decisions, too) , the thief is bottom tier in all of them.

The problem is not about thief build being not viable anymore ( it isn’t ), the point is that soon the meta will revolve around bunkerish heavy DPS builds dye to quickness nerf, because now there’s nothing able to punish tanky builds for overextending.

If people in my thread can’t understand it, it’s not my fault.

A thief with all of its resources available is competitive with almost any build. They’re not top tier because their meta viable builds lack long fight sustainability. Necros are in a similar boat.

1: on a 0-20-0-20-30 build, with fury on ( 40 % crit chance) and 250 bloodlust stacks, a single burning speed can hit for over 6 k damage.
Assuming not, burning speed crits for 4 k , arcane blast for 2k , arcane wave for 3k , ring of fire for 2k +.

I’ve already dealth 10 k AoE damage, and i’ve not used fire grab.

How does adding 250 power from bloodlust to ~1900 power, increase damage by 50%? That’s a 13% increase, which would take a 4k hit (which is already higher than reality) to 4.5k.

As far as the likelihood of all of that critting with a 40% crit chance:

RTL 40% crit chance = 40% of all combos have a RTL crit
RTL crits have a 40% chance to be followed a burning speed to crit = 16% of all combos have a RTL and burning speed crit
RTL + burning speed crits have a 40% chance to be followed by a ring of fire crit = 6.4% of all combos have a RTL, BS and RoF crit
RTL + BS + RoF crits have a 40% chance to be followed by a fire grab crit = 2.5% of all combos have everything crit

Long story short, it doesn’t happen very often.

Nerfing Quickness does NOT = removal of burst. No.

Classes who were not reliant on quickness are still capable of high burst damage, of course. It’s the Warrior class that was royally screwed over by this change, because their burst was completely reliant on Quickness, and now even that is gone.

Empiren.6401:

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

LOL

Archaon.6245:

Empiren.6401:

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

LOL

What lol??! :S
Eles are in a very bad spot atm..and im serious.The whole community and especially those that have no clue how the class worse(like you) want a global nerf to the ground.
I bet you dont even understand what should be nerfed.Like lets nerf rtl again..that should totally bring the bunker down..as well as every other concevable ele build with oh dagger TEN fold..
Eles are doomed i tell ya..Its on the good will of anet pvp devs to not commit to the desire of the community and destroy the class.
Actually imo judging from what they ve been doing the last patches they either are done with ele and gonna bring more hard counters in other classes to them ..or they are preparing something big (possible with aoe redesign)

kostbabis.8791:

Archaon.6245:

Empiren.6401:

TL:DR: Ele’s who were already on top tier got a buff and he’s happy.

LOL

What lol??! :S
Eles are in a very bad spot atm..and im serious.The whole community and especially those that have no clue how the class worse(like you) want a global nerf to the ground.
I bet you dont even understand what should be nerfed.Like lets nerf rtl again..that should totally bring the bunker down..as well as every other concevable ele build with oh dagger TEN fold..
Eles are doomed i tell ya..Its on the good will of anet pvp devs to not commit to the desire of the community and destroy the class.
Actually imo judging from what they ve been doing the last patches they either are done with ele and gonna bring more hard counters in other classes to them ..or they are preparing something big (possible with aoe redesign)

I wouldn’t worry that much, Anet has clearly stated that water heals and similar are not going anywhere, in the last sotg by stating how ele will die easily once snared, the devs clearly showed to know how the profession work compared to the small vocal minority.

They know all eles go around with the 0/10/0/30/30 and small variations of it, they won’t change anything anytime soon, at least nothing that will please those few complainers , as the only way to please them would be to completely remove the profession..which will never happen

kostbabis.8791:

Actually imo judging from what they ve been doing the last patches they either are done with ele and gonna bring more hard counters in other classes to them ..or they are preparing something big (possible with aoe redesign)

Or they’re just dumb……wanna make a bet?

Umm you keep saying quad cantrips, but you can only have 3, unless you magically made your elite slot another cantrip and if you did, please share I could use a 4th cantrip I can use on demand.

If your talking about the 10 earth bunker build for the extra Armor of Earth, well then he will have next to no crit, or zephyrs boon to get fury, and will hit like hes hitting you with a piece of paper. Or he/she will lose something else, in Arcana perhaps or in Water.

You have 3, count them, 3 slottable stunbreaks. That is all. You need to spec for the Armor of Earth at 50%, and you don’t “choose” when to use it.

And yes, it seems that elementalists wont be touched too much as the major weakness for the class (chill/immobilize) is known to the devs, but other classes will be made to counter them, which is in my opinion a better idea. It leads to more build diversity and greater viability (of course that needs to be introduced,as it hasn’t just yet).

I’ve always felt that Necromancer/Engineer/Condition Theif should be the natural counter to the bunker Elementalist (due to condition damage).

Raif.9507:

Umm you keep saying quad cantrips, but you can only have 3, unless you magically made your elite slot another cantrip and if you did, please share I could use a 4th cantrip I can use on demand.

If your talking about the 10 earth bunker build for the extra Armor of Earth, well then he will have next to no crit, or zephyrs boon to get fury, and will hit like hes hitting you with a piece of paper.

You can get fury from atunement swapping mid cast, but yeah most eles would run at least 10 in air anyway.

Phaeton.9582:

Raif.9507:

Umm you keep saying quad cantrips, but you can only have 3, unless you magically made your elite slot another cantrip and if you did, please share I could use a 4th cantrip I can use on demand.

If your talking about the 10 earth bunker build for the extra Armor of Earth, well then he will have next to no crit, or zephyrs boon to get fury, and will hit like hes hitting you with a piece of paper.

You can get fury from atunement swapping mid cast, but yeah most eles would run at least 10 in air anyway.

Which gives you a 2 second window to land an ability and has a 20% chance to crit. Not big odds if your going for damage, which is the point if he is bunkering.

Mid cast* but I’m not arguing, air is better for the stats too if you want to do anything other than bunkering

Raif.9507:

Umm you keep saying quad cantrips, but you can only have 3, unless you magically made your elite slot another cantrip and if you did, please share I could use a 4th cantrip I can use on demand.

If your talking about the 10 earth bunker build for the extra Armor of Earth, well then he will have next to no crit, or zephyrs boon to get fury, and will hit like hes hitting you with a piece of paper. Or he/she will lose something else, in Arcana perhaps or in Water.

You have 3, count them, 3 slottable stunbreaks. That is all. You need to spec for the Armor of Earth at 50%, and you don’t “choose” when to use it.

The meta build has Earth’s Embrace. How do people still not know that after ANet made it the default ele build?

A bunker is going to hit like wet tissue whether he has zephyr’s boon or not. The people traiting into air are the eles that don’t want to be a bunker in the first place, but feel forced to take 30 water/arcana to be viable.

If a bunker ele is going below 50% health, he was likely hit with CC and needed to use a cantrip anyway.

im aware its the meta thank you. however you still cannot choose when to pop that armor of earth. it isnt something you depend on its an oh kitten i have nothing left trait.

HPLT.7132:

Rofl this thread is epic. I also have an elementalist as second class and I can tell ya GC Ele is as OP as the bunker. I mean I can easily destroy an entire group when their positioning is bad. During my rotation I do about 15-20k AOE damage.

Now we do abnormal damage, have a panic button and still a better survivability than a thief. Seems legit

^^^^^
this

not to mention that thieves are being forced to go to more tanky builds since they’re survivability and burst has been indirectly nerfed due to the reveled nerf.