Guild Wars 2

PvP has massively devolved into a huge mess of AOE and skill spamming with very little reason to do much else.
Before HoT, a lot of niche builds had their place and were fun to play, now you might as well not bother. HoT meta builds or dont even bother.

Every single weapon and build currently in decent use has an extreme amount of AOE or multiple hits. Why is this the case you might wonder? Because blinds, blocks are so prevalent and ease of play of these weapons is.

As an example : Rifle vs hammer engineer.

You won’t see rifle engineers much, because they rely on CC and large single hit burst shots. This just doesn’t work anymore thanks to the over-abundance of random boons and blocks flying around, same goes for blind. I tried running rifle, i get blinded, knowing i can’t CC or dmg using 2-5 skills while blinded i opt to cleanse the condition with an auto, but this doesn’t work at all. There are so many random attacks and fields and stuff flying around that blindness is constantly being applied, I can’t reliably get a overcharged shot off and when i do, by the time I land net shot/blunderbus/jump shot I have been blinded again, even in mid air.
Lets say I don’t get blinded, then I get CCd, because that is rampant too, I stopped counting how many time I would get interrupted mid jump shot from some random un-targeted AOE just to flop down on the ground like a wet noodle with my Predator as useless as a white weapon!

Contrast this with hammer and its constant spamming and multiple hits, its much less effected by these random blocks and blinds since everything is AOE and continues hits, not to mention the bonus finishers it has that you benefit from whether your attacks miss or get blocked or not.

Duelling used to be an exercise in skill, these days its a case of who has the most sustain OR who counters who. You are an engi, sorry, you can’t fight that druid, it won’t be worth your time, even if you do manage to beat him after a 2 min fight.
Whenever I win a fight, I don’t feel skilled anymore, using a metabattle build literally feels like cheating. When I lose the fight, I don’t feel the other person was better either, simply I was countered or outnumbered and unable to get out.

This is where I should be adding my suggestions on fixes as constructive feedback, but sadly… I have no clue anymore, anets series of bad decisions has pushed the game so far as to make it impossible to balance around both old and new weapons, specs, and utilities without a major overhaul.
Sorry to say I have no clue what to do about this situation.

TL:DR.
PvP is a spammy, unfun and no-skill mess.

I guess one man trash is another treasure, because I have been having lots of fun since HoT.

And FYI, this is a team game. So if you are not running any condi clear at least have someone in your team camp who can help.

Wait, sustaining yourself isn’t an exercise? ? Correct me if I am wrong but in order to sustain yourself you have to give up dps. So, why are you complaining if you are running a Yolo build ( which I am assuming) then whose fault is it??

Great blaming losses on being countered, just because someone counters you doesn’t mean you are garantee to lose that match up.; and a game such as GW2 counters means nigh nothing. E. I. DH pretty much counter melee warrior right?? However changing on of your utility skill with signet of might favors the warrior because you nullify DH blocks and stuff.

Whenever I win a fight, I don’t feel skilled anymore, using a metabattle build literally feels like cheating.

Mind blown, Granted that I don’t use meta build myself,I mean from what I have heard most pro players don’t, but still how does it feel like cheating?? Using this logic 100% of lol or Dota players ought to feel crestfallen. Futhermore, if anything using a meta build, at least in high elo, is a garanteed loss.

Some5hing not being fun to isn’t tatamount to bad balance. Learn to work with or around the balance because there will never be a perfect game. And what are those bad decisions you referred to above?? Because since the end of the season or HoT for that matter, everything insanely broken has been tone down.

I completely agree with OP. You used to CC to interrupt a specific skill, or a rez, or something. Now you just have random AOE CC.

A typical example is dragon hunter. You have the pull on F1. That’s fine, it’s a skill which you decide to use to achieve a specific effect. But then you have dazes on trap, which you mostly just spam, and a random pushback on longbow. “Random”. That means that except for the first one in the fight or on weapon change, you don’t quite know when it will proc, and even then, you don’t really choose it, it just pops. So any team fight ends up being a pure AOE fest.

Of course, no surprise that the best classes in the meta were the classes with near-perma stability (bunker mesmer and power or condi rev). So to counter AOE spam, you got stability spam.

I was still enjoying PvP after the specialization patch. But HoT killed it for me.

well there’s a solution… make any class like warrior is^^.

The thing you are complaining about rifle engi is the same warriors are complaining about their class… except that not only rifle is affected by this problem, but any of warriors weapons XD XD.
When we complain about the condi spam, isnt necessarly about the condi dmg stuff, but the spam on blind weakness chill is happening in this game, in contrast of the unblockable aoe ground easy target skills. In any decent mmo, melee attacks are stronger than ranged one, in this game not… now we have Decapitate wich is lower than gunflame (is lower than an axe autoattack to be fair) and its almost impossible to land. Now i dont mean that every skill should be like warrior’s one (impossible to land), but would be nice if they would be with the same concept of movement/placement of yourself in order to land.

time to move to another game then.

to the OP: i agree with you in part, except for the part about winning 1on1s. If you play any build it’s not only because you read about it in metabattle, but because you tested it and made it work. i usually never play metabattle builds without changes, because some adjustments depend on the teams comp and are too specific to be useable in solo qeue.

metabattle just saves time. You can pick a build from there and twist it to your needs. You can also start builds from scratch and they will end up looking a lot like the ones in metabattle given enough time and testing.

I believe the reason we dont see any rifle engineers is that the hammer is (insert some kittens) op as (more kittens). The rifle is not a particulary bad weapon, nor not ‘suited’ for the current game, it is just not closely as good as the alternative.
Other than that you’ve got a point, i personally dont have many problems with blind, but cc and blocks are in a bad place right now.
If anything cc should be skillshots to interrupt skills or, in some cases lock an enemy into your burst.
And most invulnerabilities should get a massive reduction in duration, so they can serve to precisely prevent bursts instead of covering up a possible lack of skill.
Also the ‘counter mechanic’ is actually a good thing. You simply can not balance a game to a point, where every class and every build is equal. You have to have either h one strongest choice (+some that get close) that will beat everybody else on an equal skill level, or you will have to go with a rock/paper/scissors system. aka counter mechanics.
And whats the problem with that? I know i cant kill a guard, but its not like there was one on every point all the time.
Also the sustainability. It is not in generally a ‘bad’ thing. What else would you want? Decide the fight with the first hit? Stunlock your opponent and kill them off?
The most interesting and most enjoyable fights I had were the ones that took several minutes, both of us getting the opponents health to ‘one more strike’ several times, just to see them heal back up to full hp. It didnt even matter who won those.

Also: have some patience and some compassion. As annoying as the current state of the game is, its natural. They had a major expansion coming out pretty recently that changed a lot of things and they still have to ensure balance for three game modes at once.
I would not say the pre, release and post balance patches to HoT were done well. Neither would I say arenanet was doing everything they could have done.
But its not like they werent trying to get things right either. They have proven that they at least consider feedback, and im actually glad they dont just do everything, people on these forums ask for. WHilst we still have major balancing issues and problems with build diversity, things are at least getting better, slowly but steadily.
During season one, you could literally not join a match as a thief without someone saying ‘great, we have lost’ wether they were right or not. I doubt, this will happen again. Even given the current state of mesmer and warrior, they can participate to fights. (I have actually met two warrios recently, who were carrying their entire team)
Personally i would like them do to adjustments during the seasons, watch them in action and eventually roll back since that would hopefully increase the speed of the process, but i can only imagine, how many people would hate that.

I’d love to see minor tweaks here and there when needed throughout the season instead of flipping the meta on its head every 3 months or so. Also, I’d REALLY love to be able to participate in public test servers. I’d give a lot of feedback on new changes being tested if this were possible. WoW had it, and it helped the game out a lot in terms of player feedback.

fights bigger than 2v2 are not fun for anyone anymore except for reapers and maybe elems, too many brainless AoEs are flying around

way too much damage flying around, liked the previous meta much better.

Pts would be great. There have been a couple of changes where we’d be like ‘did anyone actually bother to find out, if that WORKS?’ Not only would it decrease the amount of overbuff/nerf, but more importantly allow for some greater changes or actual overhauls to be deployed, just for testing.

Like the very detailed list of proposed changes found on most class forums. you could jst roll them out, and see if thats something you could work on. And if not: no big deal, only pts

I disagree with this post. I often play fun builds like zerker greatsword necro and can win 1v1s against hard counters like daredevils and mesmers (high burst and blind wrecks zerker necro). There will always be straight counters to certain builds, just like there will always be meta builds.

Take one of the most popular games current LoL, where champions will be out of the meta for years at a time, and there might only be two or three meta picks out of a twenty champ pool.

Build diversity will always be an issue, but with practice you can still do well with non meta builds, it just wont be as faceroll. Also, if you arent having any fun anymore, just take a break. Theres no need to keep pounding your head against a wall if you arent enjoying yourself.

Aren’t all the spammers and meta sheeps the ones who’re stuck in amber-sapphire for the most part? You don’t win in this game by spamming AoE:s unless against an extremely bad opponent.

The meta is never perfect, but there’s a lot more honest, viable options from a non-professional player’s point of view. This coming from someone who plays Thief, Ranger, Guardian and Mesmer.

Shala.8352:

well there’s a solution… make any class like warrior is^^.

The thing you are complaining about rifle engi is the same warriors are complaining about their class… except that not only rifle is affected by this problem, but any of warriors weapons XD XD.
When we complain about the condi spam, isnt necessarly about the condi dmg stuff, but the spam on blind weakness chill is happening in this game, in contrast of the unblockable aoe ground easy target skills. In any decent mmo, melee attacks are stronger than ranged one, in this game not… now we have Decapitate wich is lower than gunflame (is lower than an axe autoattack to be fair) and its almost impossible to land. Now i dont mean that every skill should be like warrior’s one (impossible to land), but would be nice if they would be with the same concept of movement/placement of yourself in order to land.

Yeah warrior is so screwed by EXACTLY this problem, little AOE and no field, single large hit instead of recurring hits.
I wanted to mention it actually

if you constantly complain about aoe, maybe anticipate/ dont stand in it. play more carefully.

My opinion,
Anet can do new ESL without HOT
It will more popular.

There’s no way they’re trying to make this game fun.

100% agree with OP, HoT ruined this game by turning coordinated teamplay into boon block blind evade aoe fest. They doll out resistence and stability and protection like candy all the while adding insane amounts of cc potential. What happened to saving and timing your skills?

Stand The Wall.6987:

if you constantly complain about aoe, maybe anticipate/ dont stand in it. play more carefully.

That doesn’t really work in a game that is all about capturing and holding the same point that has AoE lines all over it. SOMEONE has to sit in there.

EPYON.2731:

My opinion,
Anet can do new ESL without HOT
It will more popular.

That would be fun!

I am having fun every day, even though I sometimes get kittened off about random players in Unranked due to season lockout. But starting today the fun starts going exponential again.