Guild Wars 2

Guys,…guys,..before we say anything we may regret, let’s just remember it’s actually thieve’s we hate…not necromancers.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Guys,…guys,..before we say anything we may regret, let’s just remember it’s actually thieve’s we hate…not necromancers.

My second character is a warrior used for spvp.

Hence I hate everything.

@CntrlAltDefeat

atm necro is more an problem but ye i agree – this game would be much more balanced would arenanet just delete necro thief and mesmer – pvp would shine

Symbolic.7910:

It’s the burning/torment/doom changes. Plus the extra 30% condition duration for getting Dhuumfire, the spinal shivers proc at 25%. The spite traitline is better than the curses traitline, the only good thing in the curses traitline is terror/weakening shroud. This in itself allows for more coverage of the bleed/burning/poison making sure it’s not cleansed first.

Well the new doom is playing a small part of this new combination as well. But regarding the curses line I’d like to point your attention towards banshee’s wail+sigil of paralyzation(the 4 second huge cone aoe daze and locust swarm are awesome), focused rituals and spectral attunement, it’s a bit unfair to not see them as good traits.

And would also like to point this out again, the differences for the 30/30/10/0/0 glass condi cannon build between the pre patch and post patch versions are:

-torment(DS#5)
-burning(trait)
-improved doom(DS#3)
-new weakness(application depends on your weapon and trait choice)

utilities(if you take them; limited to 3[cpt. obvious]):
-new spectral wall
- slightly reduced well CDs
-improved signet of spite(can be with the new merged trait)
-spectral walk and armor effect while in DS

But judging form the forums, right now necro seems to be according to it’s description. When other people see a necro, you know the necro is going to stay there and in the fight. Your choices are to either fight and die to him or run away, lol.

Romek.4201:

vicious just stop – it isnt even more funny to read what you write

watch the replay from tournament yesterday – pradigm destroyed all the teams with 2 necros and they dont played vs noobs – this was TOP TEAMS
after tournament they even said they dont used any tactic or strategie they just went to the node and said to the necros kill something – done

seriously – just stop – even a 5 year old would understand how broken the game is atm

Can I please get a link? I didn’t get to see due to getting ready for a trip

http://www.twitch.tv/qqtrooper34/videos?kind=past_broadcasts

there it should be somewhere or soon^^

leman.7682:

The profession needs to be brought back ______in line with others just like it was pre-patch_______.

Thank you. You’ve just made my day.

I would rather they just nerfed burning in general than remove it from the necro

The burning on crits every 10s isn’t killing you. Its the CC.

Counter the CC and you counter the Necro. Easier said than done, but the number of stuns that the Necros can put out coupled with the 1100+ dps that the stuns tick for by themselves is the killer. Don’t cry about Dhuumfire, because a pure terror necro that puts those 30 pts elsewhere will still own that kitten unless you figure out how to counter the Fears.

Burning is necessary for condition coverage in the metagame. The trait could and probably should do three stacks of torment instead of burning, but the coverage is necessary. That’s why necromancers had to run with engineers last patch, which was an awful requirement to put on any class.

The problem is really Terror and the buffs to fear capabilities, particularly through close-range Doom and Spectral Wall. It’s just too much when coupled with burning.

So since burning is necessary for consistent coverage, it’s Terror that has to go or at least be nerfed. Fears should also be toned down to where they were last patch, so Doom should be 1 second even in close range and Spectral Wall should do something else (maybe apply torment).

Also, you guys should check your death screens when you die to a necromancer. I think you’d be surprised how low burning is and how high Terror is. (This is also why burning is a better option in terms of balance; it doesn’t do that much damage, but it provides reliable coverage.)

Lopez.7369:

Burning is necessary for condition coverage in the metagame. The trait could and probably should do three stacks of torment instead of burning, but the coverage is necessary. That’s why necromancers had to run with engineers last patch, which was an awful requirement to put on any class.

The problem is really Terror and the buffs to fear capabilities, particularly through close-range Doom and Spectral Wall. It’s just too much when coupled with burning.

So since burning is necessary for consistent coverage, it’s Terror that has to go or at least be nerfed. Fears should also be toned down to where they were last patch, so Doom should be 1 second even in close range and Spectral Wall should do something else (maybe apply torment).

Also, you guys should check your death screens when you die to a necromancer. I think you’d be surprised how low burning is and how high Terror is. (This is also why burning is a better option in terms of balance; it doesn’t do that much damage, but it provides reliable coverage.)

Keep in mind that nerfing terror and fear will also nerf other build like 0/30/10/0/30
and other variant of terror build that doesn’t use burn.

Poplolita.2638:

Keep in mind that nerfing terror and fear will also nerf other build like 0/30/10/0/30 and other variant of terror build that doesn’t use burn.

That’s why they need to buff 30 points into Soul Reaping and Curses for condition builds when or after they nerf Terror. Right now, there’s very little reason to go that far up both trees as a condition build.

But they really can’t worry about keeping every build balanced when necromancers already have a build that’s overpowered. Fixing the overpowered build takes precedent because it does a lot more damage to the game than a lack of build diversity.

30 points into soul reaping is amazing, it’s just that 30 points into spite offers so much damage you don’t need the defence from soul reaping.

The problem is Soul Reaping is almost entirely selfish, defensive mechanics. Ideally, it would have a 30-point trait that’s lucrative for condition builds and actually helps the entire team. Curses and Spite have that with Terror and Dhuumfire because those abilities provide so much offensive pressure for an entire team. Soul Reaping just feels dull and selfish in comparison.

I wonder what would happen if Terror and Dhuumfire were both 30-point traits in Curses. That seems like it would have been a much better option in the end.

Lopez.7369:

The problem is Soul Reaping is almost entirely selfish, defensive mechanics. Ideally, it would have a 30-point trait that’s lucrative for condition builds and actually helps the entire team. Curses and Spite have that with Terror and Dhuumfire because those abilities provide so much offensive pressure for an entire team. Soul Reaping just feels dull and selfish in comparison.

I wonder what would happen if Terror and Dhuumfire were both 30-point traits in Curses. That seems like it would have been a much better option in the end.

To take dhuumfire you have to forgo taking an extra 20% damage against foes under 50% health. That is a trade. Both of those traits are awesome. If you have one,..you can’t have the other.

Lol… did not know what this was. Then googled and saw it was a trait… and according to Wiki Grandmaster. Then I loled when I saw the description and remembered from my engineer that we have exactly the same as Adept trait.

Agree burn is not for necros they should replace it with torment

I"d prefer confusion instead of burn. There’s more play there.

Anyway, as a necro I find the terror buffs to be far more potent than the burn. Heck, in PVE you barely notice the burn when it is on enemies. But when a horde of a dozen enemies are all slamming themselves against a wall, getting hit for nearly 3k damage each time… you notice that.

Whether this is overpowered or not, I’m not sure. The biggest issue I have is that none of my condition builds were changed by this. I have to change my builds to try and get dhuumfire, and I have to change my builds to get better and more fear. What I was running before won’t cut it still.

lol 4 sec burning

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Guys,…guys,..before we say anything we may regret, let’s just remember it’s actually thieve’s we hate…not necromancers.

I love you!

Well, I’ve been playing mostly necro since beta tests.

Right now I can sometimes solo 2-3 players (depending on their rank/rating/skill/you-name-it).

You know something is wrong (am I that good, people that bad or unprepared to face new necro with a good player behind it, or is it the power of the profession?) when you down two r45+ players in a battle over the nod as a glass condi necro before going down yourself in a rated match.

leman.7682:

Well, I played mainly necro since beta tests.

Right now I can sometimes solo 2-3 players (depending on their rank/rating/skill/you-name-it).

You know something is wrong (am I that good, people that bad or unprepared to face new necro with a good player behind it, or is it the power of the profession?) when you down two r45+ players in a battle over the nod as a glass condi necro before going down myself in a rated match.

Rank doesn’t really show much. There are a lot of r40+ players that are not that good. I downed 2 people alone multiple times with an epidemic pre patch. So if we take this situation, it is extremely likely that they were very bad that time. If you had the 30/30/10 build and 3 people start focusing you, I cannot really imagine how you can get out of that.

Iceflame.5024:

Rank doesn’t really show much. There are a lot of r40+ players that are not that good. I downed 2 people alone multiple times with an epidemic pre patch. So if we take this situation, it is extremely likely that they were very bad that time. If you had the 30/30/10 build and 3 people start focusing you, I cannot really imagine how you can get out of that.

Ohh, don’t get me wrong – skill-wise and rank-wise I definitely was above them, but they were an ele and an engie. I cannot see a possibility of these classes losing to a single necro, no matter how well played. I don’t think we’ve ever seen so much offensive potential in a single class in GW2.

leman.7682:

Iceflame.5024:

Rank doesn’t really show much. There are a lot of r40+ players that are not that good. I downed 2 people alone multiple times with an epidemic pre patch. So if we take this situation, it is extremely likely that they were very bad that time. If you had the 30/30/10 build and 3 people start focusing you, I cannot really imagine how you can get out of that.

Ohh, don’t get me wrong – skill-wise and rank-wise I definitely was above them, but they were an ele and an engie. I cannot see a possibility of these classes losing to a single necro, no matter how well played. I don’t think we’ve ever seen so much offensive potential in a single class in GW2.

Mate, some ppl are just bad, sometimes i managed to solo 2 ppl with my condition or power necro PRE-patch !
And i remember once they were an engi and an ele, same ppl maybe ? :p

I did some tourneys today, using my mesmer and my ele and i could kill / live long enough even against necros. Maybe they werent much good, but anyway i think ppl are over reacting to these changes. Sure, necros got lot more powerfull, but considering they were way behind prepatch i think now they/we have some more to put down in a teamfight.

p.s. I also happen to get into a soloQ where we were 5 necros, and we lost so bad… we won first teamfight maybe, thats it. Then i found some teams with 2 necros, mine (always soloQ) without any, and yet we won. So i dont think they really make the difference, at least, unless they are really good, but under this condition every high skilled player in a match can make the difference. yeh even a warrior

Symbolic.7910:

30 points into soul reaping is amazing, it’s just that 30 points into spite offers so much damage you don’t need the defence from soul reaping.

Why burning it’s ok in other classes but in necromancer it’s OP???

Engineer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder

and ppl complaining about necromancer’s Dhuumfire lol. It’s the same, save necro needs 30 points into power trait.

Dhuumfire needs to stay. Ppl are better now ‘cause of terror/fear buffs, not burning.
Burning helps build diversity. There are several build now viable with this trait.
You can’t nerf a 30 point trait to make it worse than a 10 point trait of another class.

If 30/30/10 builds have too much damage output it’s ’cause terror extra damage when target has another condition. Not for 4 sec burning on critical 10 sec CD.

Burning isn’t the problem, it’s the 8 seconds of fear I can inflict (Stakitten > DS3 > spectral wall + Condi/stun duration) while being fairly tanky and having good teamfight presence. Just revert the DS3 change and remove stun duration from affecting fear and I think we’ll be in a good spot.

Kind of hope they do small nerfs like remove the doom buff and make the burning 3 seconds not 4. Or something like that. Those nerfs will make significant differences.

vicious.5683:

and ppl complaining about necromancer’s Dhuumfire lol. It’s the same, save necro needs 30 points into power trait.

It’s not 30 points in the power trait, it’s 30 points into the condition duration trait. Which btw means that 4s of burning is actually 5s when you get it :p

Lordrosicky.5813:

I would rather they just nerfed burning in general than remove it from the necro

Agreed, there is one common issue with all overpowered condition builds: permanent burning. It simply does too much damage and the durations are incredibly long on certain abilities.

After the patch I figured I’d build my Necro like this: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;0_-34;0kHkH0p3oJkJ0;9;5TJ-J;138917;238-V-V8V;1hoHAhoHA1Fc

Thinking I’d need Lifeforce (= large health pool), bleed duration and Corrupt Boon.

I was wrong, seems like building completely offensive fixes the problem of our low survivability. -_-

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

The burning on crits every 10s isn’t killing you. Its the CC.

Counter the CC and you counter the Necro. Easier said than done, but the number of stuns that the Necros can put out coupled with the 1100+ dps that the stuns tick for by themselves is the killer. Don’t cry about Dhuumfire, because a pure terror necro that puts those 30 pts elsewhere will still own that kitten unless you figure out how to counter the Fears.

You’ve got a fear on a 20 sec cd and another one on staff at 45 sec cd. You’ve got a fear every 90 seconds if someone CC’s you and is in melee range if you trait for it in 20 Death Magic.

The only non-traited fear besides Doom and Mark is Spectral Wall, and if you’re walking into something as obvious as Spectral Wall then you deserve to die.

Hell, just stay near your ele so when fear hits he just uses water attunement and cleanses it off you immediately.

Necros need to rely on guardians for stability so they don’t get punted all over the place — why shouldn’t classes rely on others to cleanse conditions off them?

Zenith.7301:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

The burning on crits every 10s isn’t killing you. Its the CC.

Counter the CC and you counter the Necro. Easier said than done, but the number of stuns that the Necros can put out coupled with the 1100+ dps that the stuns tick for by themselves is the killer. Don’t cry about Dhuumfire, because a pure terror necro that puts those 30 pts elsewhere will still own that kitten unless you figure out how to counter the Fears.

You’ve got a fear on a 20 sec cd and another one on staff at 45 sec cd. You’ve got a fear every 90 seconds if someone CC’s you and is in melee range if you trait for it in 20 Death Magic.

The only non-traited fear besides Doom and Mark is Spectral Wall, and if you’re walking into something as obvious as Spectral Wall then you deserve to die.

Hell, just stay near your ele so when fear hits he just uses water attunement and cleanses it off you immediately.

Necros need to rely on guardians for stability so they don’t get punted all over the place — why shouldn’t classes rely on others to cleanse conditions off them?

Not arguing your point. Beating necros now requires some degree of teamwork.

The spectral wall thing is kind of weak though. Good players aren’t really walking into the wall. They are being feared into it (plus it doesn’t always display terribly well). Also, an ele can’t cleanse often enough to really help, especially against a multi-necro comp. Particularly if he gets feared at the same time (Reaper’s Mark is AoE).

I do think that Necros are counterable as they are. The only thing that I haven’t made my mind up on is if it takes too much investment to counter them. It may be that the right comp can roll them every time, but that comp may not have the versatility to beat more balanced teams. If this is the case it becomes a bit too paper-rock-scissors and it needs a tweak (my opinion. others may view it different).

Thing is fear is a great defense as well as offense and with spectral walk/return and spectral wall – a necro can go glass and be very viable on tournaments with a good defense

Stof.9584:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I would rather they just nerfed burning in general than remove it from the necro

Agreed, there is one common issue with all overpowered condition builds: permanent burning. It simply does too much damage and the durations are incredibly long on certain abilities.

I’ve played a condition engineer for awhile, and I have to disagree that burning is overpowered. In fact, there are many handicaps to burning that make it difficult to use. It is also many of these handicaps that make it so I don’t trait Dhuumfire at all.

#1: Burning damage is overidden with other people’s burning damage. So if a condi engineer and a guardian are playing together, when an engineer applies a 10 second burn, the guardain overrides that with their Virtue of Justice passive, and now they have an 11 second burn that does 328 damage per second. It seems like a lot, but that condition engineer hits for 328 damage with each individual grenade they throw, 3 times every 0.75 seconds. It’s really crap when that happens, and because of this it is hard to be a condition engineer in PVE groups and PVP groups that have guardians or elementalists or non-condi rangers or non-condi mesmers.

#2: Burning is the worst scaling condition in condition damage. For bleeds, poison, and confusion you only need around 850 malice to double your damage output for conditions. For burning, you need a whopping 1,312 malice to double it’s output. Torment, if I understand correctly, needs only 290 malice to double its damage. A lot of people equate a burn to so many bleeds, but this changes depending on their condition damage. At 0 malice, a burn is equal to 7.8 bleeds. At 1312 malice, a burn is equal to 6 bleeds. The higher it goes, the less and less burn contributes overall to condition damage.

#3: Burn has a very hard cap on effectiveness because it stacks only in duration. That means that, at any point in time, a burn on a condition build is only doing 700 a tick, and never more than that. Those long duration burns can be cleansed away, causing all of that stacking to mean absolutely nothing. When coming from multiple sources, even if both players use conditions, it will never exceed that amount. 5 condition engineers do the same burning damage as one.

It is because of this that you don’t see many condition Guardians or Elementalists, even though both of those can sustain a permanent burn quite easily.

Stof.9584:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I would rather they just nerfed burning in general than remove it from the necro

Agreed, there is one common issue with all overpowered condition builds: permanent burning. It simply does too much damage and the durations are incredibly long on certain abilities.

Permanent burning is mathematically impossible. Conditions can only be boosted by 100 percent. That would put Dhuumfire’s burn at 8 seconds — not enough to match the 10-second cooldown.

I also don’t know anyone who runs more than 40-percent condition duration, including the Spite trait line.

Once again, I recommend you guys look at your death charts when you die to a necromancer. I think you’d be surprised how low burning is and how high Terror is, which solidifies burning’s purpose as merely providing more coverage.