Guild Wars 2

right now the lack of options is hurting, when it comes to ranged DPS, specifically staff. We are jack of all trades and master of none, actually, not even amateurs, adepts at best. We cant fully specc damage, we have no real active defense, we have lowest armor and hp in the game and nothing to compensate, not even insane damage to have a chance to kill people as fast as they do the same to us with a smirk in their faces

Im keep playing the class out of massochism and this weird love that makes me want to stick to my main, only and first since beta. But here are some suggestions that could work out to making this class viable on competitive play.

First, I want to congratulate the community for making the devs notice that staff needed help, but lets not stop there. We brought that weapon from being a suicide stamp to something that could be acceptable vs now extints rangers and 2 patches ago warriors. Now we need to make it a viable DPS weapon with more strenghts rather than just weaknesses. We currently lack a viable ranged weapon (and you could argue that guardians do as well, but they have soooo many other viable combinations as well as multiple roles) Scepter also did get some love, but not exactly where it needed it. Focus is beyond useless. Right now the only viable build we have is water/arcane D/D bunker build, which is arguably very strong, but other than that, we dont have any ways to survive, since conditions will eat us aparts (11-13k hp if you dont have a soldier amulet) or a well placed 100b can finish us off half way into the skill.

I dont mean to sound dramatic, but in a 5v5 where 1v1, 2v1 and 2v2 is prodominatly the only way to fight, we are, without any doubts, in worse positions that even ranger. Yes, I said it, in small encounter scenarios with a non D/D water/.arcane build we are worse than 80% of all other classes, to the point that we can get ignored if we are bunkers, or killed by non-intended skills in a swip if damage specced.

Here are solutions. I think by now, the amount of nerfs to healing, conditions, RtL, CD on skills, mist form, auras, and CC, we arent such goddess of control and healing, so can we up the hp to maybe 18k like mesmers? It would help in PvE as well, where lupicus can down you with just his sneeze, and simple PvE mobs can 3 shot you (no kidding, find a ranged or 2 ranged mobs and prepare to die if you dont do something fast!)

Another solution is; make the damage output be comparable to the defense handicap we have. Im talking about Staff and even after the buffs how hard it is to land a couple of skills (and Im not talking about skil ceiling, im talking about how telegraphed they are, which is still WAAAAYYYY too much) Increase damage so that when you do manage to land something, it HURTS. I have had 28k hp warriors stand on my 2k fire font glass cannon crits (staff #2) and not even move one inch before they used 2 skills and an autoattack (same amount of time, they were soldier) with rifle and wiped off my pitiful 11k hp. I have tried it all, beserker and valkirie, soldier and carrion, even celestial;

Damage:defense:team-utility ratios do not compute with this class.

If you think the only viable option we elementalists have is a D/D bunker build, you might want to stop playing hotjoin and see some high level play.
There are several viable specs right now, and most of them are with S/D, and a S/D dps elementalist is capable of dealing pretty high burst damage (I can 100->0 a necromancer with rabid amulet if he has 0 life force)
Moreover, if eles were so terrible right now, then top tier teams would be stupid to have AT LEAST one elementalist in their team composition (Denial Esports runs with 2 elementalists, for example).

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k34;2B2-P0w4-N-Z0;9;5J-JT;159;245-45AUN;4Ewk2Ewk24BQ
This spec will take you far if you learn to play it, and it’s just an example.

Shar beat me to it. I would aruge S/D valks or zerker is more viable/desired than a D/D bunker. If I were you, I’d mess around with S/D valks (with fresh air or with some variation of 20 air, 20 water, 30 arcana) as it really does feel like the intended jack of all trades build, with high survivability, strong burst, and team utility.

That being said, yes, Ele’s options are limited and I would love to see a staff DPS build brought up. And focus, clearly, could use some love. I’d say eles are still one of the better classes in the game now, though.

kitten it you two I logged in to say your 2 points >.>

I have 5 viable builds for tPVP right now. One is D/D and I can tell you it’s not 0/10/0/30/30 anymore.

Do all my builds include 30 arcana and at least 10 in water? You bet your kitten . But to say our only build is D/D bunker is so wrong. So so wrong.

DXIEdge.2789:

kitten it you two I logged in to say your 2 points >.>

I have 5 viable builds for tPVP right now. One is D/D and I can tell you it’s not 0/10/0/30/30 anymore.

Do all my builds include 30 arcana and at least 10 in water? You bet your kitten . But to say our only build is D/D bunker is so wrong. So so wrong.

0/10/10/20/30 is still bunker.

Aether McLoud.1975:

0/10/10/20/30 is still bunker.

Not if you run it with a Valkyrie’s or Berserker’s Amulet.

rsq.3581:

Aether McLoud.1975:

0/10/10/20/30 is still bunker.

Not if you run it with a Valkyrie’s or Berserker’s Amulet.

LOL of course valk is bunker. Also D/D Berserker is nowhere near viable.

Everyone else pretty much said it.

Valkyrie isn’t bunker. With a zerker jewel you have the same crit damage as a full on zerker ele just less percision. It’s more like a hybrid ammy.

Ele is individually weak, but brings a lot to a team. AoE boons, condi cleanse, healing and damage are very powerful in a team fight on a closed in node. They’re a liability alone and usually will lose 1v1 against equally skilled engi, ranger and mesmer (especially fresh air burst builds), but what they bring to a group is very valuable. That mesmer who was melting to necro spam is suddenly able to survive by hanging close to his ele. Melee DPS can’t pressure your bunker on node without getting burned down by AoE. Etc.

Other classes can do basically everything that an ele can better than an ele can, but other than engi, they can’t really do it all at the same time.

Ele does need some buffs to weak trait lines (I’m looking at you fire), the stun breaker back on lightning flash and preferably some added mobility for burst builds (additional cooldown reduction on movement skills added to the air master tier trait Aeromancer’s Alacrity), but ele is not in a terrible place.

Benji.9203:

Everyone else pretty much said it.

Valkyrie isn’t bunker. With a zerker jewel you have the same crit damage as a full on zerker ele just less percision. It’s more like a hybrid ammy.

It has lots of toughness and healing power on it. It’s a bunker amulet.

It has also max power and max critical damage, so no, it’s not a bunker amulet. I didn’t know that a bunker could deal 15-18k damage in a burst rotation

The reason elementalists are limited is because 30/70 trait-points pretty much have to be specced into Arcana. It limits the elementalist into only having two viable builds.
A more defensive D/D with 30 in Water or DPS orientated with 30 in Lightning.
The last 10 points have more freedom but most people put it into either Water or Lightning depending on the build.

Fortus.6175:

not even insane damage to have a chance to kill people as fast as they do the same to us with a smirk in their faces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kTf-CGZfkj4

Made my day

Aether McLoud.1975:

Benji.9203:

Everyone else pretty much said it.

Valkyrie isn’t bunker. With a zerker jewel you have the same crit damage as a full on zerker ele just less percision. It’s more like a hybrid ammy.

It has lots of toughness and healing power on it. It’s a bunker amulet.

Lol. I….I don’t even know what to say here.

Valk is the amulet healing professions use if they want sustain in fights without going full bunker. It gives 284 healing and 596 toughness (I think). You want a bunker? Use a Clerics amulet

Please stop making a fool of yourself.

my biggest issue with the ele is that everyone, devs included, seem to have forgotten that eles can use the focus. the weapon is beyond useless with its ridiculous cooldowns and hardly useful spells (oh no a line of fire that you can aim! oh no a 3s chill on a 30s cooldown!)

focus is for dungeon runs, which pvp is not.

sorrychief.2563:

focus is for dungeon runs, which pvp is not.

i’m having a hard time picturing it being useful in any PvE.

seriously, it could use an overhaul.

BrunoBRS.5178:

my biggest issue with the ele is that everyone, devs included, seem to have forgotten that eles can use the focus. the weapon is beyond useless with its ridiculous cooldowns and hardly useful spells (oh no a line of fire that you can aim! oh no a 3s chill on a 30s cooldown!)

Yeah srs. People always complaing about staff and then you wonder if they know the focus exist. Tbh I love the focus outside of the fire line and Chilling Winds.
Imo earth focus is one of the best off-hands in game, air is good, water is alright and fire is forgettable.

ensoriki.5789:

Yeah srs. People always complaing about staff and then you wonder if they know the focus exist. Tbh I love the focus outside of the fire line and Chilling Winds.
Imo earth focus is one of the best off-hands in game, air is good, water is alright and fire is forgettable.

Earth focus is SOOOO good, it has a 25s cd cleansing fire + projectile reflect, and a 50s cd better mistform (can still cast). S/F has some really good defense against conditions as it can cleanse in fire (phoenix), water (evasive arcana), and earth (focus 4). If you bring ether renewal, you could be a condition-classes’ worst nightmare. Unfortunately, by taking away the /D you lose a very large portion of your damage and have to rely on mostly air scepter for damage with the occasional phoenix.

High mobility.
Good assortment of stun breaks.
some what limited signets, but hey..they’re not guardian signets at least.
The most weapon skills use.
Access to multiple boons.
More than just situational elites.
Access to immunity.
Access to stuns.
…but we need all this and ranged…

If the elementalist had all this, and potentially 25 weapon skills and single target abilities at 1200 unit range,..their name wouldn’t be elementalist. It would be Jesus.

the specs that are viable for ele are in a good place right now, people are starting to find new interesting combinations and what not. They really aren’t a bad class at all.

However, more diversification is needed because eles are pretty much pigeonholed into 20 arcana and 10 water, and even then, they would probably need to put 10 into earth if they aren’t going deeper into water and arcana. Fire needs some love.

Ceraldor.3160:

Fortus.6175:

not even insane damage to have a chance to kill people as fast as they do the same to us with a smirk in their faces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kTf-CGZfkj4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MlXskSmfpI

Made my day

Now show a whole battleground & I`d bet you`re 1-2 shot by anything with half a brain, or in thieves case, half a keystroke.

Shar.3402:

If you think the only viable option we elementalists have is a D/D bunker build, you might want to stop playing hotjoin and see some high level play.
There are several viable specs right now, and most of them are with S/D, and a S/D dps elementalist is capable of dealing pretty high burst damage (I can 100->0 a necromancer with rabid amulet if he has 0 life force)
Moreover, if eles were so terrible right now, then top tier teams would be stupid to have AT LEAST one elementalist in their team composition (Denial Esports runs with 2 elementalists, for example).

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k34;2B2-P0w4-N-Z0;9;5J-JT;159;245-45AUN;4Ewk2Ewk24BQ
This spec will take you far if you learn to play it, and it’s just an example.

That’s a pointless claim considering necromancers are the easiest class to CC by far. Thieves can kill a necromancer just as well, as can any burst build because the necromancer sucks in 1v1. It has no survival, just team utility with aoe pressure/boon strip.

sorrychief.2563:

focus is for dungeon runs, which pvp is not.

Most idiotic thing posted by far in this thread. There is nothing but Lightning Hammer in PvE. Get it through your head, DPS is all that matters in that format.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

High mobility.

Lies, I will refer you to RotL, the lack of mobility with S/F, or limited mobility with S/D. Want to know what mobility is? Refer to guardians GS and Sword/focus, or GS warrior, or D/D thief, or pretty much everyone who can use their skills to get away and not get a double CD penalty

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Good assortment of stun breaks.

Considering they took it away from our lighting flash, I would say the most “optimal”

some what limited signets, but hey..they’re not guardian signets at least.

Dunno what you are talking about, guardians signets get INCREDIBLY strong, 2xx power to 6xx power?! Thats 3 times more damage! Also durations of stuff goes up, so no, guardians have oe of the best signets out there when comparing only signets, not the whole package.

The most weapon skills use.

I hear this one a lot, and here is my answer; so what? At leas you can customize yourself to situations with weapon combos, eles have to do or die with what they have. Try playing staff ele and tell me how it goes when you are left all by yourself or with only one person….. You cant change weapons in fights, so every weapon set SHOULD be/feel complete. Staff is the prime example of how this is NOT achieved

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Access to multiple boons.

Another misconception. Let me explain it once again;
“oh look that ele has sooo many boons! Oh look, that other ele can soak so much!!!, OH LOOK! That ele hurts SOOOO much!!”
All that were different bilds, but you just assumed they triated the same, Trut of the matter is; eles have almost no boons to give UNLESS almost fully traited for it. Unlike guardians and mesmers and engis and necros who constantly give them without giving a second thought or changing their playstyle too much, we have to actively try and trait to sacrifice as many skills as possible for the few blasts we have. Im sorry, but this one is just wrong. Masters of boons are mesmer and guardians, yet, they seem to be allowed to have damage too.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

More than just situational elites.

What, did you just say we have good elites? Do you even play eles, bro?! LEts start with this one; Elemental, cant control skills, movement, can be kited, doesnt do jack damage, dies to AoE. Fire sword, mostly used as a escape mechanism (lawl) and even as that it sucks cuz it has a casting time in which you are rooted.
Tornado; “yeah, let me jst walk away from it….”

Please…..

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Access to immunity.

Access to stuns.

Umm, so? You keep describing skills we have, my answer is; So what? Everyone has immunities, everyone have stuns, your point is? Heck, I will even dare to say our stuns are REALLY hard to land, considering they are situational for the most part, and lately our “immunity” got nerfed to the ground since we cant heal while doing so…… so NO, thats are not "Strong points, sorry.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

…but we need all this and ranged…

Why shouldnt we? Whats stopping s? Should we also gut mesmers range because they can do all that you have said and more? Or maybe rangers even more since even when they have gotten this many nerfs, they can still do what you have “described”…. or warriors rifle (lawl, a warrior, traditional melee class doing better ranged damage than a ranger)

Once again, your point is? All you have done is describe skills, nothing more, you havent given me any point that make eles superior to anyone, in fact i will go further;

Guardians/mesmers beat eles at supporting, period.
Thief/Guardians/Rangers/Warriors/Mesmers(in combat) have better mobility that eles, Period.
Thief/mesmer/guardian/warrior/necros have more damage when could even hope for, period.

We are a poormans choice , but because we can do a little of everything wemust suck at it all?! No, thats not fair, thats what customization should be for, like druids; either damage, healing or tank, but not the middle ground where everyone would better off with the real deal.

ele bunker is a joke… surviveability/utility sucks compared to other bunkers and as damage dealer you have to pick dmg utilities cause ele lacks dmg on weapons then it´s viable with s/d

I don´t recommend running melee when range classes like engi win in melee combat against dedicated melees…

Bring a lightning hammer to a Arah or high Fractals run. Also never seen a ele player solo lupi with lightning hammer but with a dagger/focus instead. Using focus doesn’t automatically make you bunker or lower your damage output please learn to play real dungeons beside CoF before posting dumb things.

My main Class is a Ele and I don’t think he is to weak. You need to play the right Build to be effective but this isn’t a issued of the Ele this is a issue of a lot of classes. You are get forced in a few Build that you must used to be effective.
What Anet need to do is:
- Make the Fire Trait usable
- Buff Focus and Staff
- Try to give us Traits that are viable without 30 in Arcane and 20 in Water I think Fresh Air is a good approach

But this is very difficult to do. Anet don’t want to make the Ele OP so they need to be careful with these Changes.

sorrychief.2563:

Bring a lightning hammer to a Arah or high Fractals run. Also never seen a ele player solo lupi with lightning hammer but with a dagger/focus instead. Using focus doesn’t automatically make you bunker or lower your damage output please learn to play real dungeons beside CoF before posting dumb things.

This post dropped my IQ below the ground. Just because you are too lazy to look up guild groups that run fractals dungeons with lightning ele does not mean it isn’t the best set for all PvE content. Come play with us on fractal 48+, I’ll show your silly kitten a lightning hammer build.

Who cares what can solo lupi. The end goal is finishing dungeons as quickly and efficiently as possible, and the terrible damage from ele mainhand weapons is not even an option.

This game needs DPS meters badly to shut people like you up. Dagger sustained damage is terrible compared to top PvE builds.

I really don’t want to see you on the ground half the time in pve and pve is already easy as is. Atleast show me a recent video or I’ll drop your claims all together. Protip you can’t have 3 guardians and a warrior babysitting you otherwise why bring an ele to dungeon?

Anyway ele is fine for tpvp and hotjoin (comming from an ele main). Some people should lrn2play instead of asking for constant buffs/nerfs. Sorry your IQ dropped but you are responsible for reading my posts and all. Who is forcing you to read and respond to me?

OK, so you decline. Thanks for making it easier to dismiss you. Have fun using D/F in speed clears I’m sure you’ll be welcome with open arms.

You know this is the PvP Forum.

swordbreaker.5189:

You know this is the PvP Forum.

In a thread where he called the focus a “PvE” weapon, when it fact the focus is just a garbage weapon that’s used in none of the formats and whose only use (negating treb shots in wvw) was nuked out of existence.

Fortus.6175:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Access to immunity.

Access to stuns.

Umm, so? You keep describing skills we have, my answer is; So what? Everyone has immunities, everyone have stuns, your point is? Heck, I will even dare to say our stuns are REALLY hard to land, considering they are situational for the most part, and lately our “immunity” got nerfed to the ground since we cant heal while doing so…… so NO, thats are not "Strong points, sorry.

I agree with most of what you said, however this isn’t entirely true. Ele can heal whilst invulnerable, focus earth 5. However, our utility invulnerability has been nerfed several times since release. Before you could change attunement in it (nerfed) then you could use utilities (nerfed) now you are a ball of mist, unable to do anything but move slowly and waist dodges. If I recall correctly I think you could do anything in mistform then that got reduced and reduced down to nothing.

Fortus.6175:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Access to immunity.

Access to stuns.

Umm, so? You keep describing skills we have, my answer is; So what? Everyone has immunities, everyone have stuns, your point is? Heck, I will even dare to say our stuns are REALLY hard to land, considering they are situational for the most part, and lately our “immunity” got nerfed to the ground since we cant heal while doing so…… so NO, thats are not "Strong points, sorry.

We can heal while invulnerable, fyi, it’s called switching to water and dodging, there you go, 4k hp healed without casting our heal skill, which becomes roughly 5k if you consider 3 ticks of regen+soothing mist in the 3s of invulnerability.

Well just to prove Zenith wrong once and for all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iNFsVqdlMg
not mine but atleast it’s better than not having video evidence. with such a stupid claim like “none of the formats” makes me facepalm and wonder why I even respond to trolls.

so back on topic I’m hoping the devs look over focus and give it an overhaul because the 40 second cooldown on a fire aura is just horrible.

sorrychief.2563:

Well just to prove Zenith wrong once and for all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iNFsVqdlMg
not mine but atleast it’s better than not having video evidence. with such a stupid claim like “none of the formats” makes me facepalm and wonder why I even respond to trolls.

so back on topic I’m hoping the devs look over focus and give it an overhaul because the 40 second cooldown on a fire aura is just horrible.

Yes, me too. Its like they thought about having 2 main hands and a 2 handed weapon. Then they made the offhand dagger. Many cycles later the must have thought “How about some more off hand options here” and gave us the focus. Problem was they already made the dagger do everything.

29:45 min solo.

Warrior:

8:24 min solo.

Stop posting. It hurts. I seriously have a hard time grasping the idiocy of people who would use a solo video as an argument for format viability.

I’m not sure what warrior has to do with ele since they obviously out damage everything. You posted a video of a warrior outdamaging an ele not even specced for damage in that video. How are you even staying on topic? Can you leave this thread pls if you can’t offer any insight to pvp ele kthx.

If you can solo Lupicus, you definitely can solo every player no matter what specc he runs. /thread

I run 0/20/0/20/30 with s/d. In hot join I still run 0/10/0/30/30 d/d. ( Guess im behind the times there)I seem to stay up and do some good damage with the second spec…but also you can make better calls and see more with the first spec. I prefer d/d. I love the arcana tree also it has some very good traits that help a lot with survivability

sorrychief.2563:

I’m not sure what warrior has to do with ele since they obviously out damage everything. You posted a video of a warrior outdamaging an ele not even specced for damage in that video. How are you even staying on topic? Can you leave this thread pls if you can’t offer any insight to pvp ele kthx.

Are you an idiot? Guardian solo, 15 min. Thief solo, 11 min. Mesmer solo, 15 min.

Your crappy video was an awful 29 min long.

Wasn’t my video. Congrats I’m arguing with someone who can’t read no less so just got proved wrong twice lol. Still can’t find videos of LH eles killing lupi or doing high lvl fractal runs. Even posted a video in good will to perhaps teach you something new of an ele using focus as you said “none of the formats”. Well I suppose you won’t give up until you show me images of atleast 15k+ thunderclaps.

Does anyone run rock solid in pvp? It makes stomping people easier (why waste mistform or scepter blind?) since we can’t body cleave like a 100blade warrior. Dare I say it’s a ROCK SOLID trait. 0-15-20-15-20