Assuming all players are equally skilled, being in a full or partial premade will give you considerable advantage over pugs. Don’t think the current match making system even accounts for it and if it does then not enough. Synergy of premade can be strong.
people say this, but i will queue with guildies on their first time in pvp. actually, most if the time i’m the strongest player in my premade and have to carry. it can just be pals doing pvp for fun and no a super serious squad.
i never blame losses on a premade. it’s either i goofed, or it’s that the people i have on my team would be better suited to sucking nutrients off the bottom of a fish tank.
Read the bolded. Obviously you and your guildies who never really pvp won’t necessarily be as strong as a bunch of solo queue regulars.
I agree with one of the posters who said if our points are going to be assigned based on our chance to win we should probably know if we are expected to win or lose before the match begins. It would also probably clear up a lot of these posts.
no rational person would assume that.
. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
Thank you for clearing that up Evan. I like the way you guys are doing this. Just my opinion.
I agree with one of the posters who said if our points are going to be assigned based on our chance to win we should probably know if we are expected to win or lose before the match begins. It would also probably clear up a lot of these posts.
I’ll +1 this.
I would probably do something to reduce the same questions that come up over and over. In this case, displaying whether or not a point is gained at the end of a match. Show odds of winning along with it.
Showing odds of win before the game starts could discourage a team, even make a person go afk, because they “think” they have no chance.
aka FalseLights Rank: Top 250 since Season 2 #5 best gerdien in wurld
Assuming all players are equally skilled, being in a full or partial premade will give you considerable advantage over pugs. Don’t think the current match making system even accounts for it and if it does then not enough. Synergy of premade can be strong.
people say this, but i will queue with guildies on their first time in pvp. actually, most if the time i’m the strongest player in my premade and have to carry. it can just be pals doing pvp for fun and no a super serious squad.
i never blame losses on a premade. it’s either i goofed, or it’s that the people i have on my team would be better suited to sucking nutrients off the bottom of a fish tank.
have you considered that perhaps ranked queue is not the place for complete newbies? I’m not trying to be rude, but I can’t imagine it’s a very conducive environment for their learning. Unranked would probably be better.
Assuming all players are equally skilled, being in a full or partial premade will give you considerable advantage over pugs. Don’t think the current match making system even accounts for it and if it does then not enough. Synergy of premade can be strong.
people say this, but i will queue with guildies on their first time in pvp. actually, most if the time i’m the strongest player in my premade and have to carry. it can just be pals doing pvp for fun and no a super serious squad.
i never blame losses on a premade. it’s either i goofed, or it’s that the people i have on my team would be better suited to sucking nutrients off the bottom of a fish tank.
have you considered that perhaps ranked queue is not the place for complete newbies? I’m not trying to be rude, but I can’t imagine it’s a very conducive environment for their learning. Unranked would probably be better.
I think most people would agree with that however, newbies aren’t always willing to admit that they are newbies.
Assuming all players are equally skilled, being in a full or partial premade will give you considerable advantage over pugs. Don’t think the current match making system even accounts for it and if it does then not enough. Synergy of premade can be strong.
people say this, but i will queue with guildies on their first time in pvp. actually, most if the time i’m the strongest player in my premade and have to carry. it can just be pals doing pvp for fun and no a super serious squad.
i never blame losses on a premade. it’s either i goofed, or it’s that the people i have on my team would be better suited to sucking nutrients off the bottom of a fish tank.
have you considered that perhaps ranked queue is not the place for complete newbies? I’m not trying to be rude, but I can’t imagine it’s a very conducive environment for their learning. Unranked would probably be better.
not sure why you assumed ranked? i only go there when im with good players and am confident we will win.
. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria
I agree with one of the posters who said if our points are going to be assigned based on our chance to win we should probably know if we are expected to win or lose before the match begins. It would also probably clear up a lot of these posts.
I’ll +1 this.
I would probably do something to reduce the same questions that come up over and over. In this case, displaying whether or not a point is gained at the end of a match. Show odds of winning along with it.
Showing odds of win before the game starts could discourage a team, even make a person go afk, because they “think” they have no chance.
Currently the ladder is a ‘beta’ season. We are testing numbers, but this is not the feature complete design. This means things are missing that will be included later.
I agree with one of the posters who said if our points are going to be assigned based on our chance to win we should probably know if we are expected to win or lose before the match begins. It would also probably clear up a lot of these posts.
I’ll +1 this.
I would probably do something to reduce the same questions that come up over and over. In this case, seeing whether or not a point is gained at the end of a match. And team’s odds of winning along with it.
Showing odds of win before the game starts could discourage a team, even make a person go afk, because they “think” they have no chance.
The part about people going afk might be true but at the same time those kind of people will afk or rage quit anyway in those matches.
I agree with one of the posters who said if our points are going to be assigned based on our chance to win we should probably know if we are expected to win or lose before the match begins. It would also probably clear up a lot of these posts.
I’ll +1 this.
I would probably do something to reduce the same questions that come up over and over. In this case, displaying whether or not a point is gained at the end of a match. Show odds of winning along with it.
Showing odds of win before the game starts could discourage a team, even make a person go afk, because they “think” they have no chance.
Currently the ladder is a ‘beta’ season. We are testing numbers, but this is not the feature complete design. This means things are missing that will be included later.
will this include a more compelling reward structure?
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
Yes, that’s what I would like.
But if you guys aren’t willing to change it I just won’t solo queue anymore, at least when I’m in ranked. There are just too many variables at play when solo queuing to get above a 60% win rate without running a cheese build or being a WTS caliber player. And if losing against premades results in a loss of points, I just don’t see how any solo queuer can ever crack the top 500 without playing ten hours a day.
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
Yes, that’s what I would like.
But if you guys aren’t willing to change it I just won’t solo queue anymore, at least when I’m in ranked. There are just too many variables at play when solo queuing to get above a 60% win rate without running a cheese build or being a WTS caliber player. And if losing against premades results in a loss of points, I just don’t see how any solo queuer can ever crack the top 500 without playing ten hours a day.
Food for thought: There are a lot of players in the top 500 that primarily solo-queue (myself included—at least at the moment). I don’t play anywhere near ten hours day… not even close.
Food for thought: Pre-made teams can all just rep different guilds to avoid being classified as a pre-made team. Presumably, this is what they will all do if they are penalized for running pre-made.
this isnt true at all. premades are defined by being in a party with each other, not by what guild they rep.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
Yes, that’s what I would like.
But if you guys aren’t willing to change it I just won’t solo queue anymore, at least when I’m in ranked. There are just too many variables at play when solo queuing to get above a 60% win rate without running a cheese build or being a WTS caliber player. And if losing against premades results in a loss of points, I just don’t see how any solo queuer can ever crack the top 500 without playing ten hours a day.
If the system was like this from the start I am sure you wouldn’t need to grind out as many games as you did before. Most of those guys have over 100 losses and if more of those games were -1 points like they are now those guys would have like 40 or 50 points max instead of almost 200.
That being said the new system does favour playing with a premade over instead of solo and maybe the win chances if in a full premade need to be increased slightly. Even if not using voice comms a premade will often have a better team comp and at least some synergy whereas solo queues can end up with 3 or even 4 of the same class. Even if the solo players are more skilled they could have 5 zerkers which is likely to result in a loss against a more balanced comp.
Currently the ladder is a ‘beta’ season. We are testing numbers, but this is not the feature complete design. This means things are missing that will be included later.
after 3 year….
the old leaderboard/mm/soloq-teamq was not perfect but at least when you were in leaderboard the matches were good , not always balanced , but good , now if you are in leaderboard or not there is no difference , the matches are always yolo , because the ppl in leaderboard are not in leaderboard because they are good players , but because they played a lot…
soo such yolo such swag….
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
Yes, that’s what I would like.
But if you guys aren’t willing to change it I just won’t solo queue anymore, at least when I’m in ranked. There are just too many variables at play when solo queuing to get above a 60% win rate without running a cheese build or being a WTS caliber player. And if losing against premades results in a loss of points, I just don’t see how any solo queuer can ever crack the top 500 without playing ten hours a day.
Food for thought: There are a lot of players in the top 500 that primarily solo-queue (myself included—at least at the moment). I don’t play anywhere near ten hours day… not even close.
I believe you. There are seven people in my guild that are currently in the top 500, with another ten within range of 10 points of the top 500, myself included. But that was a lot of progress achieved with the old point system.
Since this new system was implemented, most of them have done nothing but decay. And most of them had to grind out points despite winning the majority of their games. I have a guildie with a 58% win percentage and yet he has an 8-point differential with his wins (53 points with 61 wins). I can’t help but feel this new system will only make things harder for him.
Currently the ladder is a ‘beta’ season. We are testing numbers, but this is not the feature complete design. This means things are missing that will be included later.
This is good to know. We only have to wait for another 3-15 years to get done with the beta. Is the testing expected to be done by the time of 3rd expansion, or do we have to wait until 4th one?
Currently the ladder is a ‘beta’ season. We are testing numbers, but this is not the feature complete design. This means things are missing that will be included later.
This is good to know. We only have to wait for another 3-15 years to get done with the beta. Is the testing expected to be done by the time of 3rd expansion, or do we have to wait until 4th one?
No you misunderstood. They’re not testing for GW2, it’s for the upcoming release of GW3: Gem Wars (coming 2017)
People overestimate how strong a premade is just on the basis that it is premade. I don’t have any exact statistics but I can speculate on several reasons why a premade can easily lose to a pug.
A lot of premades are just pve guildies that go into pvp to try it out and don’t want the security of having people they know helping them out. This is how I got my start in pvp and I know of many others who have done similarly. These players, are generally new to the competitive scene, don’t know meta builds, don’t know map mechanics, don’t understand rotations and rolls, and for all intents and purposes should lose to your average pug.
Even for the ones that aren’t as new to the game, I highly doubt that most of them have voice communications or are attempting to optimize their team set up. I suspect the overwhelming majority are just queing with 1 or 2 friends, for social reasons. My experience with guildies, is generally “hey anyone want to q for some pvp?” then a few people write back “sure” they party up and q together, not really trying to optimize their chances of winning, just trying to hang out with friends.
Just because 2-5 players are in the same party, doesn’t mean they are some unstoppable force, and as you said, all your matches were close even though, they were premade, so I am probably not too far off.
14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA
regardless of what happened , fact is the way pts are handed out is pretty bad for solo que players. As a result less people will que and wait time will be longer.
i just lost 5 points in 3 games after like a 12 game winning streak, almost completely undoing all the work of those 12. Unfreakingbelievable. I get the most obscenely stupid teams I could imagine and still try my best with them. Tell them what to do, where to be, be as positive as I can while watching them run around like headless chickens. And I lose 5 points in 3 games.
regardless of what happened , fact is the way pts are handed out is pretty bad for solo que players. As a result less people will que and wait time will be longer.
I solo and the way it is doesn’t bother me at all.
regardless of what happened , fact is the way pts are handed out is pretty bad for solo que players. As a result less people will que and wait time will be longer.
Yeah I was playing 7 or so matches a night before the change now it is just a few and if I win 2 or 3 in a row that is it for the day because I know I am about to lose the next couple. You can really see the difference the change made, people used to jump 5 or 6 points a day. I haven’t played at all today and I have only lost about 20 ranks because people are either losing ranks or just not bothering.
I agree I only want to play if I win, I shouldn’t lose I pay play game so I should win no loss because I play my way and my way I win because I pay so I should no lose because I play my way and my way no lose so I win because I pay
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I agree I only want to play if I win, I shouldn’t lose I pay play game so I should win no loss because I play my way and my way I win because I pay so I should no lose because I play my way and my way no lose so I win because I pay
I agree I only want to play if I win, I shouldn’t lose I pay play game so I should win no loss because I play my way and my way I win because I pay so I should no lose because I play my way and my way no lose so I win because I pay
Nobody is saying that, I think anyone who solo queues has accepted that they are going to lose matches, 50% of them most likely. What people don’t like is losing points for games they have little control over.
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
If you think anything about this new system is working as intended…..
Seriously though, the system is horrible for solo players. The matchmaking is extremely broken and is not fun at all.
I maintain a pretty consistent 60% winrate, changed your post I see unicorn.
How did you do that without getting the edit thingy?
i have absolutely no clue. It was just that I said ‘reductio ad absurdum’ first time, and meant straw man. As to your point, I didn’t even notice that lol
Nobody is saying that, I think anyone who solo queues has accepted that they are going to lose matches, 50% of them most likely. What people don’t like is losing points for games they have little control over.
This is exactly right. There is very little correlation between player skill and strong correlation between team numbers. Meaning, if you have a 4v5 or a new player that doesn’t know how to play (a 4.5 v 5) you’ve essentially lost, regardless of how hard those 4 play. Player skill isn’t enough to overcome a player deficit.
I agree I only want to play if I win, I shouldn’t lose I pay play game so I should win no loss because I play my way and my way I win because I pay so I should no lose because I play my way and my way no lose so I win because I pay
Nobody is saying that, I think anyone who solo queues has accepted that they are going to lose matches, 50% of them most likely. What people don’t like is losing points for games they have little control over.
Ok so you have two options, go campaigning for gw2 and get a bigger player base so the skill levels of all players aren’t so disparaging.
Or what I have said once before is the pvp community can organize itself and stop waiting for anet to do something that might just be absolutely impossible due to the games pvp population. Some guilds have tried and what I’ve noticed from being a part of one of the guilds is all the other players seem to see the tag and say Ewwww…. discouraging players from joining…
Attention Moderators I am not:
S P E E D starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD crappy d/D ele NA
You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.
When people lose, they always blame their team mates being bad and/or solo queue, the other team are premades and queue together.
I think it’s pretty easy to gauge oneself against their teammates and their rotations, and recognize when they’re out of position or doing something incredibly stupid. It’s not always the case for all people, but I know that I’m a better player than the guy who just brought his Black Bear pet into a match, or the other team’s ranger who was LB/axeaxe condi (yes this did literally just happen)
When people lose, they always blame their team mates being bad and/or solo queue, the other team are premades and queue together.
It’s pretty easy to tell when people know what they’re doing. Conquest isn’t a particularly complicated gametype.
When your team fails to win 3v2s or does stupid stuff like leaving mid completely exposed to try and force a three cap or when a thief tries to kill a turret engi you know you’re playing with people that are still learning the ropes of the game.
It really sucks that you get – pts for matches that you have no hope of winning, I’m done with this stupid system as well. Good luck to all the premades that get to fight each other over and over. Last night I got paired vs the SAME 5 man 3 matches in a row as solo how the kitten does that happen? And I lost point on at least 2 of those 3 matches.. sigh
i just lost 5 points in 3 games after like a 12 game winning streak, almost completely undoing all the work of those 12. Unfreakingbelievable. I get the most obscenely stupid teams I could imagine and still try my best with them. Tell them what to do, where to be, be as positive as I can while watching them run around like headless chickens. And I lose 5 points in 3 games.
ANet, you are so freaking frustrating.
How can you undo all the work of a 12 game winning streak by losing 5 points. Wouldn’t a 12 game winning streak be at least 12 points? This is the type of hyperbole we need to avoid to have serious discussions to try to make the game better.
I agree I only want to play if I win, I shouldn’t lose I pay play game so I should win no loss because I play my way and my way I win because I pay so I should no lose because I play my way and my way no lose so I win because I pay
Nobody is saying that, I think anyone who solo queues has accepted that they are going to lose matches, 50% of them most likely. What people don’t like is losing points for games they have little control over.
What does that mean even losing points for games they have little control over. As a solo you can basically always say you have fairly little control over the outcome on average being only one of five players even against all solos. Now don’t get me wrong I feel they need to seriously tweak the solo versus groups of 3 or more win probability odds so that even if the total MMRs are farily even there needs to be a bonus to the grouped people that makes them the favorite to win the vast majority of the time. But if they insist on keeping the queues merged the majority of the time you lose you are going to lose a point. If people don’t like that like Phineas they can choose to stop playing. I think it’s crystal clear the old solo queue is not coming back.
I agree I only want to play if I win, I shouldn’t lose I pay play game so I should win no loss because I play my way and my way I win because I pay so I should no lose because I play my way and my way no lose so I win because I pay
Nobody is saying that, I think anyone who solo queues has accepted that they are going to lose matches, 50% of them most likely. What people don’t like is losing points for games they have little control over.
What does that mean even losing points for games they have little control over. As a solo you can basically always say you have fairly little control over the outcome on average being only one of five players even against all solos. Now don’t get me wrong I feel they need to seriously tweak the solo versus groups of 3 or more win probability odds so that even if the total MMRs are farily even there needs to be a bonus to the grouped people that makes them the favorite to win the vast majority of the time. But if they insist on keeping the queues merged the majority of the time you lose you are going to lose a point. If people don’t like that like Phineas they can choose to stop playing. I think it’s crystal clear the old solo queue is not coming back.
I guess I should have said less control over. Solo queueing I can only choose what role I will play and what build/class I will bring. The other four players are matched up completely randomly and lots of the time you end up with multiples of the same class or build (berserker) which results in a horrible team composition.
It is just one more reason I think they need to increase the amount a premade is favoured to win by when they are matched against solos. Even if the 5 solo players are mechanically better players and rotate well they might lose because they don’t have a single class that can hold a point.
I don’t have a problem facing premades as a soloer, I do see a problem when solo queuers are constantly being favoured to win facing a full or partial team. I haven’t played as much since the team so I don’t know what matches I have been losing points on but if what people are saying is correct they are losing points every match they are losing which means something needs to be tweaked with the formula to calculate who should win if that team is losing most of the time.
I would agree with all arguments, but right now #1 in EU has 1 lose and +2 points. So basically, if i’m understanding , he was predicted to get literally rolled, but lost the match like 500-450, and got 2 points.
The problem however is that if the #1 in the leaderboard can have matchs where he is expected to get completly destroyed, then there is no way people can catch back some of these top players doing xx games per day…
When people lose, they always blame their team mates being bad and/or solo queue, the other team are premades and queue together.
It’s pretty easy to tell when people know what they’re doing. Conquest isn’t a particularly complicated gametype.
It is pretty easy to split among 5 players among 3 points. However, premades have a massive advantage on maps with additional objectives. In the ranked queue, there are therefore 2 maps which are unbalanced for a mixed queueing system:
- Temple of the Silent Storm: Making strategies for meditations is much easier.
- Legacy of the Foefire: Executing lord kills is much easier/faster.
This is just constructive feedback. Playing in a premade group myself, I am only honest about this.
Together with my semi-casual guild team with almost no rank-80s, I grinded my way to position 35 on the leaderboard. I stopped going into queue solo, because it’s just not encouraging to lose your points or to remain even. Carrying games solo is incredibly hard against premades. A solution would be to decrease/eliminate the loss of points vs. premades for a loss and/or to increase the gain of points for a win.
Lastly, thanks for caring and bringing life back into PvP. Overall, you do an awesome job. We just try to point out the issues that are still there in order to make GW2 flawless.
