ANet, I am one of your most loyal PvPers but this is absolute h-o-r-s-e-s-h-iiii-t.
What is your excuse for MM working like this?
I don’t even care that much that I lost the game, I know I can grind up my MMR easily. But why should low levels get matched against this? This is the reason PvP is dying.
Low levels are still getting discouraged from playing this game because your MM is still dysfunctional. There is no reason for this to still be a problem.
This has been said a thousand times before, and I will be said a thousand times again (if you don’t fix this): there needs to be a reliable Solo/Duo Queue with functional matchmaking. Until that happens this aspect of the game will continue to shy new players away and into the zerg-fests of hotjoins.
This will never host a competitive environment until these changes are made.
Its quite possible the team you went up agenst was a pre-made team, ever consider that? So that wasnt a fault in the match-makeing system, and I think the system is more of getting you into the game itself, rather than waiting for an approate level of team-mates to balance themselfs out which would take alot longer to get in, but I agree with you also, the match makeing system does seem to be abit unbalanced in terms of real pug v pug groups, I often have Pug v Pug matchs where the enemys have 3+ level 30’s while my team is bearly pushing 20’s (im level 9 myself, so I cant talk much, but im pretty good for an r9 I think)
MM seems dysfunctional cause there aren’t enough people playing GW2 PvP right now.
Why aren’t there enough people playing it though? because no incentives, no goals to aim for as a player/team.
And no actual infrastructure to facilitate any sort of a serious competitive scene.
Look at sPvP in the beta. Now look at it like 10 months later. It’s like they don’t even try. I’m still trying to come to terms with how terrible of a failure this “eSport” was after all the promise it showed.
My personal favorite is custom servers being a “top priority feature” since September-October. Yup, still waiting.
Its quite possible the team you went up agenst was a pre-made team, ever consider that? So that wasnt a fault in the match-makeing system, and I think the system is more of getting you into the game itself, rather than waiting for an approate level of team-mates to balance themselfs out which would take alot longer to get in, but I agree with you also, the match makeing system does seem to be abit unbalanced in terms of real pug v pug groups, I often have Pug v Pug matchs where the enemys have 3+ level 30’s while my team is bearly pushing 20’s (im level 9 myself, so I cant talk much, but im pretty good for an r9 I think)
Yes, it was against a pre-made but they’re not that bad that they should get matched against a level 3.
GW’s base pvp system & everything around it lasted for 10+ years, GW2’s lasted a couple months and took 6+ years to develop so far (not sure how long it took to develop the base of GW1, probably less than 6years). The usual overhyped sequel of a massively popular & succeeding franchise getting cash cow’d, doesnt deliver and turns out to be bullkitten nowadays, no need to give you examples other than GW2 there are alot of games that got this treatment recently.
as shown in the Op’s screen shot that so well illustrates this, is that lower ranks are being punished for having a more experienced player on their team..
I have seen quite a few times now where one r40+ on one team vs all r40+ish on the other
so im wondering this: we’ll use the op’s screen shot as an example..
if the red team did not have the r41 on their team would they of been matched to the all 40+ team..
so is it taking the max for one as the max for all as in does it work on a mean average or just highest value
(I know that mmr is not based on rank as such but it’s a good indicator atm)
Yeah I was solo queuing yesterday and went against premades with rank 5 and below players for some pretty hilarious results.
A new guardian player was holding close point and when I noticed it was contested I rotated back to help him. I saw him running AWAY from the point with his sword sheathed(he hadn’t even engaged in combat), with a ranger chasing him while pelting in the back for free bleed stacks. Apparently the guy was so frightened by this ranger killing 1v1 before the game, the thought of fighting him again was unthinkable. Another similar situation occurred where I was rotating back to close and saw the death icon on my mini map and assumed our close was going to be attacked. Nope, a player had simply died solo to the chieftain by attacking right out of the gate while the rest of our team was fighting over middle(a lot of pug teams just go after mob).
Its pretty frustrating right now to say the least because not only are you facing competent players with little to no support, but these poor guys have no idea what is going on and are getting owned.
MMR is being looked at… they’re trying to seperate the premade/solo ques out(sotg, If I recall correctly).. but …eh.. this is why I have a problem with solo que existing…
I think that the MMR follows what was discussed in the SOTG this week. When Xeph brought up the topic of helping new players build their knowledge of game mechanics and improve their skills, even though he was referring to hotjoin, there needs to be a way to transition into tournaments. The discussion was on how not to discourage a new player from a perceived OP opponent/class in their first matches. Matchmaking is supposed to pair opponents at their respective competitive levels and should help in that process. I agree that what exists currently is absurd. I will post a picture of 2 of my match results. One is matched against random opponents and one is matched against a premade. You figure out which is which. I also think you can only blame a low population so much when you look at the images. In the random match, i was 1vXing many players on a point, while the other 4 zerged between the other 2 points which is why the score was remotely close. You cannot carry randoms against a premade.
The thing that bugs me is that when i solo q it often pops instant, its like the system dont eaven try to wait 30 sec to se for a better match of players
anyone else notice the level 10 has the highest score on the team? not that score is everything just saying….i’ve won several games where the enemys collective “levels” were higher.
Levels dont gauge a persons skill, just how long they’ve been playing in spvp..more importantly how long they’ve been playing on the current account. Getting beat badly sucks, but i wouldnt worry about levels. TBH it shouldnt even show your “glory grind” levels. It should just show your tspvp rank/mmr
also @salvo, the screen shot you show shows the same thing regarding levels where you have two 1’s and a 5 with more points than a 40. Maybe that mesmer was just bunkering and never saw fights or capped stuff but….once again, glory grind levels doesnt reflect a players skill, they shouldnt even be showing you this.
There were no AFK players in that match. He got 0 points due to being placed against a premade at rank 1. This shows the advantages in communication and experience levels that premades have over pugs. Premades understand focusing on a called target where new players may not. I couldn’t even cap a point-all I managed to do was to neutralize it before I died against my 2 opponents as they immediately would kill the person with me and all I could do was delay my death as much as possible that match.
No point having a MM system with no ladder and no one playing the game.
Anet just keep kittenting all over their game lol and they don’t even understand because their pve numbers seem fine xD
Reason the system is so horrible is because no one wants to Spvp because there is no incentive.
Yeah I was solo queuing yesterday and went against premades with rank 5 and below players for some pretty hilarious results.
A new guardian player was holding close point and when I noticed it was contested I rotated back to help him. I saw him running AWAY from the point with his sword sheathed(he hadn’t even engaged in combat), with a ranger chasing him while pelting in the back for free bleed stacks. Apparently the guy was so frightened by this ranger killing 1v1 before the game, the thought of fighting him again was unthinkable. Another similar situation occurred where I was rotating back to close and saw the death icon on my mini map and assumed our close was going to be attacked. Nope, a player had simply died solo to the chieftain by attacking right out of the gate while the rest of our team was fighting over middle(a lot of pug teams just go after mob).
Its pretty frustrating right now to say the least because not only are you facing competent players with little to no support, but these poor guys have no idea what is going on and are getting owned.
LOL at the ranger chasing guardian from the point. Thank you for posting that i laughed hard
Was probably like “screw this im outta here” haha.
The low rank vs high rank thing is probaqbly similar situation as in another game i used to play quite alot(APB:R) that uses a “trainee”, green, bronze, silver, gold system with hidden mmr. New players being the trainees would count as gold players for their first matches and get absolutly destroyed by proper gold players or some unlucky fellow would get carried by golds and end up getting a horrible experiance with matchmaking unless they stuck to it for a while and their rank got fixated.
However there was also an issue with gold players who would think they were good because of lucky win streaks bringing them to gold or just faceing other gold people who got carried with voip vs “bad people” without and then ended up faceing people who are used to play vs aimbotters+wallhackers all day long and get destroyed and then they would start crying that those guys were cheating and the game have now turned into a pure witch hunt..
now i’m ranting like crazy i guess which i blame on lack of sleep and way to much coffee
Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle
“Until that happens this aspect of the game will continue to shy new players away and into the zerg-fests of hotjoins.”
I pvp’d for the very first time tonight and I can attest to this. I started my first four single match tournament things by apologizing for being a new player and asking for advice and strategy.
My first three games were wins where the team told me that I was doing really well for a new player. The fourth game nobody said anything until 10 seconds before we lost when some guy starts railing on me for being terrible (no advice of course) and told me to uninstall and to go play hotjoin (aren’t those two things mutually exclusive?) He whispered me out of the game to spam me with how bad I am for doing anything but hotjoin until I mastered every facet of the game. I tried to tell him that my hotjoin matches had been mindless sheep zergfests with no communication and that I was learning far more in tournaments, but he was offline already.
The next game had me 2v5 for some reason and the next five games were against the same exact team. They spent those matches throwing homophobic slurs at me and telling me how good they are at sexual assault. Classy.
“Until that happens this aspect of the game will continue to shy new players away and into the zerg-fests of hotjoins.”
I pvp’d for the very first time tonight and I can attest to this. I started my first four single match tournament things by apologizing for being a new player and asking for advice and strategy.
My first three games were wins where the team told me that I was doing really well for a new player. The fourth game nobody said anything until 10 seconds before we lost when some guy starts railing on me for being terrible (no advice of course) and told me to uninstall and to go play hotjoin (aren’t those two things mutually exclusive?) He whispered me out of the game to spam me with how bad I am for doing anything but hotjoin until I mastered every facet of the game. I tried to tell him that my hotjoin matches had been mindless sheep zergfests with no communication and that I was learning far more in tournaments, but he was offline already.
The next game had me 2v5 for some reason and the next five games were against the same exact team. They spent those matches throwing homophobic slurs at me and telling me how good they are at sexual assault. Classy.
For a while I have found, that the main problem with mmo’s are the communities. A lot of solid mmo’s where normal functioning ppl had fun, seriously social debilitated ppl have invaded and taken over and dominated the game on the surface making every casual social aspect of the games a living hell. It wasn’t always so … I can think of numerous reasons for why mmo’s have become a haven for sociopaths … either way it is pretty sad and pretty horrible. Irl these types would simply not get away with this behavior; it isn’t about having thick skin … it is about behaving with respect for your fellow human being; something that is standard everywhere.
“Until that happens this aspect of the game will continue to shy new players away and into the zerg-fests of hotjoins.”
I pvp’d for the very first time tonight and I can attest to this. I started my first four single match tournament things by apologizing for being a new player and asking for advice and strategy.
My first three games were wins where the team told me that I was doing really well for a new player. The fourth game nobody said anything until 10 seconds before we lost when some guy starts railing on me for being terrible (no advice of course) and told me to uninstall and to go play hotjoin (aren’t those two things mutually exclusive?) He whispered me out of the game to spam me with how bad I am for doing anything but hotjoin until I mastered every facet of the game. I tried to tell him that my hotjoin matches had been mindless sheep zergfests with no communication and that I was learning far more in tournaments, but he was offline already.
The next game had me 2v5 for some reason and the next five games were against the same exact team. They spent those matches throwing homophobic slurs at me and telling me how good they are at sexual assault. Classy.
For a while I have found, that the main problem with mmo’s are the communities. A lot of solid mmo’s where normal functioning ppl had fun, seriously social debilitated ppl have invaded and taken over and dominated the game on the surface making every casual social aspect of the games a living hell. It wasn’t always so … I can think of numerous reasons for why mmo’s have become a haven for sociopaths … either way it is pretty sad and pretty horrible. Irl these types would simply not get away with this behavior; it isn’t about having thick skin … it is about behaving with respect for your fellow human being; something that is standard everywhere.
It’s not just mmo’s but every type of game which has some competitive aspect..
Only mmo that had a pretty decent community that i’ve played is SWG and EvE online(tho eve can be quite harsh at times aswell..)
Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle
ANet, I am one of your most loyal PvPers but this is absolute h-o-r-s-e-s-h-iiii-t.
What is your excuse for MM working like this?
I don’t even care that much that I lost the game, I know I can grind up my MMR easily. But why should low levels get matched against this? This is the reason PvP is dying.
Low levels are still getting discouraged from playing this game because your MM is still dysfunctional. There is no reason for this to still be a problem.
This has been said a thousand times before, and I will be said a thousand times again (if you don’t fix this): there needs to be a reliable Solo/Duo Queue with functional matchmaking. Until that happens this aspect of the game will continue to shy new players away and into the zerg-fests of hotjoins.
This will never host a competitive environment until these changes are made.
But what do you expect from a company that does not know how to create random map rotation?
For a while I have found, that the main problem with mmo’s are the communities.
I’m sure you’re right:
10 months without anything new in PVP – community fault
the game is full of bugs (no one fix them 10 months so far) – community fault
bad MM design – community fault
devs don’t know how to implement random map rotation – community fault
1) solo Q :
solo players get match up against solo players
2) group Q :
groups of 2-4 can Q up here , teams are mixed once game starts
( you can end up against some of your friends)
3) 5Man Q:
premade full teams get to battle it out against each other.
groups of 2-4 that do not want to get mixed should make 5man team
hopefully increasing the amount of 5man premades , so that “5man Q” line gets more folks playing it.
if any Q option takes to long to get a match-up = its cause to less people playing/interested in that sort of Q option.
With these options its not really needed to match-up same ranks
premades will only dominate in “5man Q”, against other premade teams ( hence rank shoudn’t matter there )
Mmr to me is such a trivial issue. There just isnt any incentive to spvp. I havent played in months. In wvw I can link my pve progression to pvp effectiveness, and I can literally use any skin I want to look any way I want. Wvw fights are just so satisfying and meaningful.
Spvp has no meaning no reason. Wvw is better for vids too cuz u can kill 5 scrubs solo and look good. Sounds like a silly reason but people love to watch wvw vids. Also u can showcase many different builds due to greater build variety.
Anyway with wvw getting better soon and spvp remaining stale I dont see myself getting back into spvp any time soon. Maybe if rewards are buffed.
I think all pvp resources should go into wvw because it has been a success, and into creating more build variety. Spvp could somehow be integrated into wvw.
The photo in the OP isnt even that bad lol. There are much worse instances. I dont understand why the system seems to think it is remotely appropriate to put a level 1 newb in a team of otherwise probably high ranked players. This is very common and should be fixed. Please start players off with a zero rating before they play any games. And then normalise this rating after 3 matches. ATM it has been suggested people start with an “average” rating before they play. This shouldnt be the case.
Either way, anet really need to sort this issue out. It is a matchmaking issue and makes about 50% of my solo q games lame.
Edit: I solo q most my games. Its frustrating but fun when you win
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
exum, I’m pretty sure right now is a terrible idea to solo queue. Most PvE players are trying to get that 10 extra laurels. I’d stay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of the way.
There just aren’t enough players anymore. And after this patch, the last of the loyal pvpers are probably on their way out the door. No point in waiting for another patch (way too many disappointments). I have a feeling all of the major changes are going to occur in the next expansion.
I’ve never been more active in the forums as I have for this game and only because I wanted to see it succeed so badly. But I’ve cut my losses and won’t be returning for a while. I’ll probably check into the forums to see how things are going a couple of months from now, but I (and probably most of the dedicated players) have been strung along far enough. All the devs had to do was make new game modes that aren’t conquest and aren’t competitive and many of us would’ve been satisfied.
Balance is always going to be in babysteps so I never expected huge changes in balance to occur quickly; but bugs and game modes should have taken precedent over everything else so that people can at least play the game. Custom arenas are just a money grab and will further segregate the casuals (which are the bulk to the pvp population) from the hardcore players.
Good luck to all those that still playing and all I can say is don’t set your expectations too high because NCSoft and Anet are just going to babystep their way until the next money grab/expansion.
