Guild Wars 2

Karina, you lose to us AND abjured, first of all. Second, if might stacking is nerfed that will effect a lot outside of spvp which will make it take a LOT longer to fix it, IMO just remove cele from spvp.

Shockwave.1230:

Chaith, in your opinion do teams worsen themselves if they run less than 3 Celestial builds in a comp?

I feel like that’s true, if you agree doesn’t that show an imbalance?

I think that every team needs at least 2 people that spend time on point without feeling at risk of exploding. 2 Cele Eles are what we use for that, and myself, Toker and Nos avoid points like the plague if we can.

Keep in mind we are replacing Guardians with Eles as the on-point fighters. This is where the majority of the Celestial amulets are popping up from. I don’t think Cele Warrior is choking out other builds from being useful, nor do I think Cele Engineer is.

My conclusion is that I think Ele is responsible for the over-representation of Celestial amulets, because that’s the only proper itemization for their meta build.

To answer your question, I think that at the moment, when you run a three point strat you need at least two Celestials on your team to not be worse off. Either two Cele Eles, or one Ele and one Warrior to hold the points. This is the case because Guardian has been pushed out of the NA meta.

If you have those two Celestials to hold the points, running Rabid Engi, Carrion Necro, and Berserker Thief would be a world class comp. Personally I would opt for a Cele Engi over the Rabid due to personal preference, bumping it up to 3 Celestials, but can’t deny the viability of Rabid Engi, and you wouldn’t be worse by running two instead of 3.

My personal take on balance is that when either Ele gets nerfed, or Guardian and Ranger start getting picked for other reasons, that will completely drop the over-representation of the Celestial amulet.

Firebird seems to be taking this thread really personally, and firing counterpressure (lol) could you cut that out, I don’t think you wanna go there.

I like how this could have turned out as an interesting discussion with five gauge and instead it ended with na drama derailing the thread. sigh

Keksmuffin.1450:

I like how this could have turned out as an interesting discussion with five gauge and instead it ended with na drama derailing the thread. sigh

Chaith man handling some terrible necro isn’t exactly an interesting dicussion.

Chaith.8256:

Shockwave.1230:

Chaith, in your opinion do teams kitten themselves if they run less than 3 Celestial builds in a comp?

I feel like that’s true, if you agree doesn’t that show an imbalance?

I think that every team needs at least 2 people that spend time on point without feeling at risk of exploding. 2 Cele Eles are what we use for that, and myself, Toker and Nos avoid points like the plague if we can.

Keep in mind we are replacing Guardians with Eles as the on-point fighters. This is where the majority of the Celestial amulets are popping up from. I don’t think Cele Warrior is choking out other builds from being useful, nor do I think Cele Engineer is.

My conclusion is that I think Ele is responsible for the over-representation of Celestial amulets, because that’s the only proper itemization for their meta build.

To answer your question, I think that at the moment, when you run a three point strat you need at least two Celestials on your team to not be kitten. Either two Cele Eles, or one Ele and one Warrior to hold the points. This is the case because Guardian has been pushed out of the NA meta.

If you have those two Celestials to hold the points, running Rabid Engi, Carrion Necro, and Berserker Thief would be a world class comp. Personally I would opt for a Cele Engi over the Rabid due to personal preference, bumping it up to 3 Celestials, but can’t deny the viability of Rabid Engi, and you wouldn’t be kitten by running two instead of 3.

My personal take on balance is that when either Ele gets nerfed, or Guardian and Ranger start getting picked for other reasons, that will completely drop the over-representation of the Celestial amulet.

Firebird seems to be taking this thread really personally, and firing counterpressure (lol) could you cut that out, I don’t think you wanna go there.

Hey chaith, thank you for for calling me out directly, again, and telling me I’m bad, that makes me have So much respect for you. Also Boreal has taken third many times by running 5 cele, although I wouldn’t recommend THAT much.

So, you agree that teams need at least 3 cele? thank you for proving my point.

Firebird.8324:

Karina, you lose to us AND abjured, first of all. Second, if might stacking is nerfed that will effect a lot outside of spvp which will make it take a LOT longer to fix it, IMO just remove cele from spvp.

Last 5 tournaments we’ve been in : my pugs 5-0 Radioactive

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

Karina, you lose to us AND abjured, first of all. Second, if might stacking is nerfed that will effect a lot outside of spvp which will make it take a LOT longer to fix it, IMO just remove cele from spvp.

Last 5 tournaments we’ve been in : my pugs 5-0 Radioactive

First of all, you are wrong. Second you are a KNOWN TROLL, just as bad as backpack, go troll someone else please.

Ozie.4176:

Keksmuffin.1450:

I like how this could have turned out as an interesting discussion with five gauge and instead it ended with na drama derailing the thread. sigh

Chaith man handling some terrible necro isn’t exactly an interesting dicussion.

Both you and chaith are scared of something happening to cele meta, because you both NEED cele to even resemble a good player.

Firebird.8324:

Ozie.4176:

Keksmuffin.1450:

I like how this could have turned out as an interesting discussion with five gauge and instead it ended with na drama derailing the thread. sigh

Chaith man handling some terrible necro isn’t exactly an interesting dicussion.

Both you and chaith are scared of something happening to cele meta, because you both NEED cele to even resemble a good player.

Do you resemble a good player? lol
You overextend on a glass necromancer, get cc chained by two engis and blame celestial amulet. Sounds solid

I am looking far and wide for an intellectual debate on the subject of classes that benefit from celestial amulet, post solutions to the issue so we can debate them.

If you currently USE celestial to gain an advantage in the PvP scene, stop posting your BS

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

Ozie.4176:

Keksmuffin.1450:

I like how this could have turned out as an interesting discussion with five gauge and instead it ended with na drama derailing the thread. sigh

Chaith man handling some terrible necro isn’t exactly an interesting dicussion.

Both you and chaith are scared of something happening to cele meta, because you both NEED cele to even resemble a good player.

Do you resemble a good player? lol
You overextend on a glass necromancer, get cc chained by two engis and blame celestial amulet. Sounds solid

YOU ARE A TROLL, face it. Oh and a man for all of you who don’t know.

This thread is getting good! All the get good sons finally paid off!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

It’s not like you’re providing any intellectual posts yourself, bro.
You write “just remove celestial” in every second post, without even thinking of what repercussions (you probably don’t even know what that word means) that would bring.
Your whole opinion is based on nothing but salt at getting beaten and beaten over and over.

If you want an actual discussion, how about you bring some solid arguments for change first, INCLUDING what it would do to the scene, what problems might come up and whatnot. Honestly, I doubt you can. So please, don’t even take the word “intellectual” into your mouth again. You bring shame to anyone actually giving balance suggestions.

ArrDee.2573:

This thread is getting good! All the get good sons finally paid off!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Out of curiosity, and to point this thread in the non-drama direction, what is your solution to the current meta issue?

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

Ozie.4176:

Keksmuffin.1450:

I like how this could have turned out as an interesting discussion with five gauge and instead it ended with na drama derailing the thread. sigh

Chaith man handling some terrible necro isn’t exactly an interesting dicussion.

Both you and chaith are scared of something happening to cele meta, because you both NEED cele to even resemble a good player.

Do you resemble a good player? lol
You overextend on a glass necromancer, get cc chained by two engis and blame celestial amulet. Sounds solid

YOU ARE A TROLL, face it. Oh and a man for all of you who don’t know.

You sound upset, making it personal to make up for your player skill issue. Don’t complain when you play kittened and blame an amulet that is fine

theoutsider.7849:

It’s not like you’re providing any intellectual posts yourself, bro.
You write “just remove celestial” in every second post, without even thinking of what repercussions (you probably don’t even know what that word means) that would bring.
Your whole opinion is based on nothing but salt at getting beaten and beaten over and over.

If you want an actual discussion, how about you bring some solid arguments for change first, INCLUDING what it would do to the scene, what problems might come up and whatnot. Honestly, I doubt you can. So please, don’t even take the word “intellectual” into your mouth again. You bring shame to anyone actually giving balance suggestions.

Yes my opinion is that it should be removed from pvp, I have whole threads dedicated to just that idea.

What is your idea? I would love to hear it, and I honestly mean that.

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

Ozie.4176:

Keksmuffin.1450:

I like how this could have turned out as an interesting discussion with five gauge and instead it ended with na drama derailing the thread. sigh

Chaith man handling some terrible necro isn’t exactly an interesting dicussion.

Both you and chaith are scared of something happening to cele meta, because you both NEED cele to even resemble a good player.

Do you resemble a good player? lol
You overextend on a glass necromancer, get cc chained by two engis and blame celestial amulet. Sounds solid

YOU ARE A TROLL, face it. Oh and a man for all of you who don’t know.

You sound upset, making it personal to make up for your player skill issue. Don’t complain when you play kittened and blame an amulet that is fine

Stop Trolling, if someone can ban this troll from forums, please do.

I’ve seen Over Powered Necro lost to many ele 1v1. I seriously doubt the skill of a necro that lose to an ele/engi 1v1.

Peace.

Firebird.8324:

Hey chaith, thank you for for calling me out directly, again, and telling me I’m bad, that makes me have So much respect for you. Also Boreal has taken third many times by running 5 cele, although I wouldn’t recommend THAT much.

So, you agree that teams need at least 3 cele? thank you for proving my point.

I chose my words more carefully than you give me credit for, I’m not meaning to call you out. Unless you are the embodiment of double power necro, mercy warrior, personified? Don’t answer that.

My point was that you need two Celestial builds because running a Guardian is too difficult, I feel. Please differentiate between a need and a preference. You need two, if you don’t run a Guardian. More are optional. Worse players are not going to beat better players by having more Celestial builds while failing to rotate as well, or be as mechanically strong.

Sunshine.5014:

I’ve seen Over Powered Necro lost to many ele 1v1. I seriously doubt the skill of a necro that lose to an ele/engi 1v1.

Peace.

I make a point of having more than 20 me v d/d ele duels a day to hone my skill against them, but they are tough cookies.

Chaith.8256:

Firebird.8324:

Hey chaith, thank you for for calling me out directly, again, and telling me I’m bad, that makes me have So much respect for you. Also Boreal has taken third many times by running 5 cele, although I wouldn’t recommend THAT much.

So, you agree that teams need at least 3 cele? thank you for proving my point.

I chose my words more carefully than you give me credit for, I’m not meaning to call you out. Unless you are the embodiment of double power necro, mercy warrior, personified? Don’t answer that.

My point was that you need two Celestial builds because running a Guardian is too difficult, I feel. Please differentiate between a need and a preference. You need two, if you don’t run a Guardian. More are optional. Worse players are not going to beat better players by having more Celestial builds while failing to rotate as well, or be as mechanically strong.

Chaith, you clearly don’t understand that this thread has nothing to do with my team or your team. If you don’t have any suggestions on how to FIX THE OBVIOUS ISSUE, GET THE kitten OUT OF MY THREAD

Firebird.8324:

theoutsider.7849:

It’s not like you’re providing any intellectual posts yourself, bro.
You write “just remove celestial” in every second post, without even thinking of what repercussions (you probably don’t even know what that word means) that would bring.
Your whole opinion is based on nothing but salt at getting beaten and beaten over and over.

If you want an actual discussion, how about you bring some solid arguments for change first, INCLUDING what it would do to the scene, what problems might come up and whatnot. Honestly, I doubt you can. So please, don’t even take the word “intellectual” into your mouth again. You bring shame to anyone actually giving balance suggestions.

Yes my opinion is that it should be removed from pvp, I have whole threads dedicated to just that idea.

What is your idea? I would love to hear it, and I honestly mean that.

That is your idea, but your idea is stupid. Not because I think Celestial is fine, but because you haven’t completed the thought process behind it.
Let’s say we remove Celestial. Engineers will go back to Conditions. Elementalists go to.. what exactly? Fresh Air? Valkyrie/Soldier DD? Just by removing Celestial you will destroy Elementalists viability as we currently know it. And isn’t it your wish to make every class viable? To have wide variation of things?
That is just one of the many many facets that one can think of if Celestial is removed and nothing is given in return. Just one of many.

I wrote what I think the problem is in an earlier post. Perhaps Celestial needs to be shaved down in stats to match other amulets. Stowing Lightning Whip needs to be removed/Lightning Whip has to be changed.
I think Sigils are broken and need to be toned down. Battle Sigil is completely broken. Might Duration is too long. Blast Finishers in combo fields might have to be addressed too. Maybe just from 3 to 2 might stacks. A change like that wouldn’t affect PvE at all, because every party has an abundance of blast finishers.
Are my ideas good? Probably not. Nerfing might may break Warriors viability or whatever. But I’m not a Dev. I’m just giving options, realizing that EVERY CHANGE MAY HAVE GRAVE CONSEQUENCES.
That is what you do not realize.

God, I want to keep this thread on a constructive topic, but with trolls like Chaith and Karina life is hard

Firebird.8324:

Chaith.8256:

Firebird.8324:

Hey chaith, thank you for for calling me out directly, again, and telling me I’m bad, that makes me have So much respect for you. Also Boreal has taken third many times by running 5 cele, although I wouldn’t recommend THAT much.

So, you agree that teams need at least 3 cele? thank you for proving my point.

I chose my words more carefully than you give me credit for, I’m not meaning to call you out. Unless you are the embodiment of double power necro, mercy warrior, personified? Don’t answer that.

My point was that you need two Celestial builds because running a Guardian is too difficult, I feel. Please differentiate between a need and a preference. You need two, if you don’t run a Guardian. More are optional. Worse players are not going to beat better players by having more Celestial builds while failing to rotate as well, or be as mechanically strong.

Chaith, you clearly don’t understand that this thread has nothing to do with my team or your team. If you don’t have any suggestions on how to FIX THE OBVIOUS ISSUE, GET THE kitten OUT OF MY THREAD

Chaith is making the arguement that celestial amulet alone is not the reason you’re losing to any comp with celestial amulet in use, which is probably the only reason you’re complaining.

“Double celestial engi is gay” – Lil dmg after losing MP Weekly Cup

Firebird.8324:

Sunshine.5014:

I’ve seen Over Powered Necro lost to many ele 1v1. I seriously doubt the skill of a necro that lose to an ele/engi 1v1.

Peace.

I make a point of having more than 20 me v d/d ele duels a day to hone my skill against them, but they are tough cookies.

Here, how about this. I’ll offer you my help. I’ll show you ele’s weakness so you can beat them. I mean, it’s not constructive for us to bash you either. It’s better if we all get better.

theoutsider.7849:

Firebird.8324:

theoutsider.7849:

It’s not like you’re providing any intellectual posts yourself, bro.
You write “just remove celestial” in every second post, without even thinking of what repercussions (you probably don’t even know what that word means) that would bring.
Your whole opinion is based on nothing but salt at getting beaten and beaten over and over.

If you want an actual discussion, how about you bring some solid arguments for change first, INCLUDING what it would do to the scene, what problems might come up and whatnot. Honestly, I doubt you can. So please, don’t even take the word “intellectual” into your mouth again. You bring shame to anyone actually giving balance suggestions.

Yes my opinion is that it should be removed from pvp, I have whole threads dedicated to just that idea.

What is your idea? I would love to hear it, and I honestly mean that.

That is your idea, but your idea is stupid. Not because I think Celestial is fine, but because you haven’t completed the thought process behind it.
Let’s say we remove Celestial. Engineers will go back to Conditions. Elementalists go to.. what exactly? Fresh Air? Valkyrie/Soldier DD? Just by removing Celestial you will destroy Elementalists viability as we currently know it. And isn’t it your wish to make every class viable? To have wide variation of things?
That is just one of the many many facets that one can think of if Celestial is removed and nothing is given in return. Just one of many.

I wrote what I think the problem is in an earlier post. Perhaps Celestial needs to be shaved down in stats to match other amulets. Stowing Lightning Whip needs to be removed/Lightning Whip has to be changed.
I think Sigils are broken and need to be toned down. Battle Sigil is completely broken. Might Duration is too long. Blast Finishers in combo fields might have to be addressed too. Maybe just from 3 to 2 might stacks. A change like that wouldn’t affect PvE at all, because every party has an abundance of blast finishers.
Are my ideas good? Probably not. Nerfing might may break Warriors viability or whatever. But I’m not a Dev. I’m just giving options, realizing that EVERY CHANGE MAY HAVE GRAVE CONSEQUENCES.
That is what you do not realize.

You sir make an excellent point and I have actually thought about what would happen to classes if that idea comes to pass. When the feature patch hit, MANY things about elementalist were buffed, more blast finshers, fire evade, etc. If you slap a Valkyrie amulet on a D/D ele, they are STILL viable with those recent buffs, where is cele is Outrages.

On the topic of engineer, they were the master of condis, which gave them a weakness. Facing a necro (which could transfer them) actually gave them a direct counter, everything needs a counter to be balanced.

Here is a little bit tip I wrote a while ago for condi necro to beat ele:

Sunshine.5014:

A Necro should always beat an Ele with the same skill level; that’s no contest. The rate that a necro can apply conditions is far more greater than an ele can cleanse. A meta ele have
1) three cantrips that cleanse 1 condition, except cleansing fire that cleanses 4 conditions. High cooldowns.
2) 2 cleanses every swap to water per 10s. Another 40s cleanse inside water.
3) random proc on being critted cleanse a condition. 10s cooldown.

It’s all about experience and timing. As soon as the ele switches out of water, put tons of conditions (don’t use fear or chill yet) on he/she. Then most of them will use cleansing fire to cleanse 4 of that. Then immediately put a chill on. The ele would be dead if they don’t cleanse it, gg for you. If the ele is an experienced one, they will have to use another cantrip to cleanse it, most likely armor of earth (the animation is rock flying around). Immediately rip the boons if possible. If you rip the stability of armor of earth, or the water attunement is delayed by a chill, you can basically chain fear the ele to death.

Most necro makes the mistake of just spamming the conditions. That works against engi, but for ele, they need the timing.

A well played necro should always beat an ele, not the other way around.

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

Chaith.8256:

Firebird.8324:

Hey chaith, thank you for for calling me out directly, again, and telling me I’m bad, that makes me have So much respect for you. Also Boreal has taken third many times by running 5 cele, although I wouldn’t recommend THAT much.

So, you agree that teams need at least 3 cele? thank you for proving my point.

I chose my words more carefully than you give me credit for, I’m not meaning to call you out. Unless you are the embodiment of double power necro, mercy warrior, personified? Don’t answer that.

My point was that you need two Celestial builds because running a Guardian is too difficult, I feel. Please differentiate between a need and a preference. You need two, if you don’t run a Guardian. More are optional. Worse players are not going to beat better players by having more Celestial builds while failing to rotate as well, or be as mechanically strong.

Chaith, you clearly don’t understand that this thread has nothing to do with my team or your team. If you don’t have any suggestions on how to FIX THE OBVIOUS ISSUE, GET THE kitten OUT OF MY THREAD

Chaith is making the arguement that celestial amulet alone is not the reason you’re losing to any comp with celestial amulet in use, which is probably the only reason you’re complaining.

“Double celestial engi is gay” – Lil dmg after losing MP Weekly Cup

First of all, did you screenshot that? because I would NEVER say something like that.

Second, the argument that great players will still be great players if cele is nerfed is baseless, before cele came to pass out played by children and Apex were beatable.

Also, saying that basically says, “why change what has won me thousands of dollars??”

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

Chaith.8256:

Firebird.8324:

Hey chaith, thank you for for calling me out directly, again, and telling me I’m bad, that makes me have So much respect for you. Also Boreal has taken third many times by running 5 cele, although I wouldn’t recommend THAT much.

So, you agree that teams need at least 3 cele? thank you for proving my point.

I chose my words more carefully than you give me credit for, I’m not meaning to call you out. Unless you are the embodiment of double power necro, mercy warrior, personified? Don’t answer that.

My point was that you need two Celestial builds because running a Guardian is too difficult, I feel. Please differentiate between a need and a preference. You need two, if you don’t run a Guardian. More are optional. Worse players are not going to beat better players by having more Celestial builds while failing to rotate as well, or be as mechanically strong.

Chaith, you clearly don’t understand that this thread has nothing to do with my team or your team. If you don’t have any suggestions on how to FIX THE OBVIOUS ISSUE, GET THE kitten OUT OF MY THREAD

Chaith is making the arguement that celestial amulet alone is not the reason you’re losing to any comp with celestial amulet in use, which is probably the only reason you’re complaining.

“Double celestial engi is gay” – Lil dmg after losing MP Weekly Cup

First of all, did you screenshot that? because I would NEVER say something like that.

Second, the argument that great players will still be great players if cele is nerfed is baseless, before cele came to pass out played by children and Apex were beatable.

Also, saying that basically says, “why change what has won me thousands of dollars??”

intellectual debate > cele is outrages
outrageous*

Firebird.8324:

First of all, this post comes from an individual that abused celestial to win a mulit thousand dollar tournament and with another one on the rise he is fighting tooth and nail to keep himself from being thrown back into the gutter.

Firebird.8324:

if he changed his name to phanteram I would notice ZERO difference.

Firebird.8324:

Again I have dueled him many times, played with im, and against him, and can easily say that he is as tough, if not more of a challenge than You Five Gauge.

Firebird.8324:

I can give countless other examples with individuals like Sir Serveris, Thrackit, Swarles, players that haven’t been in the pvp scene too much that feel identical to go against as those people on the Abjured.

Firebird.8324:

Both you and chaith are scared of something happening to cele meta, because you both NEED cele to even resemble a good player.

Firebird.8324:

God, I want to keep this thread on a constructive topic, but with trolls like Chaith and Karina life is hard

This thread has kinda gone like this:

• Post salty pic
• Constructive discussion starts to happen around team comp
• Someone said power necros and mercy rune warriors are easy
• Take it personally. Everyone thinks I suck at the game!
• Talk crap to everybody on the Abjured for two pages
• Blame everyone else in the thread for being unconstructive

How shall this continue to unfold, I wonder! I finished my piece on constructive discussion regarding Cele’s role in team comps though, my work is done. Chaith outie.

Chaith.8256:

Firebird.8324:

First of all, this post comes from an individual that abused celestial to win a mulit thousand dollar tournament and with another one on the rise he is fighting tooth and nail to keep himself from being thrown back into the gutter.

Firebird.8324:

if he changed his name to phanteram I would notice ZERO difference.

Firebird.8324:

Again I have dueled him many times, played with im, and against him, and can easily say that he is as tough, if not more of a challenge than You Five Gauge.

Firebird.8324:

I can give countless other examples with individuals like Sir Serveris, Thrackit, Swarles, players that haven’t been in the pvp scene too much that feel identical to go against as those people on the Abjured.

Firebird.8324:

Both you and chaith are scared of something happening to cele meta, because you both NEED cele to even resemble a good player.

Firebird.8324:

God, I want to keep this thread on a constructive topic, but with trolls like Chaith and Karina life is hard

This thread has kinda gone like this:

• Post salty pic
• Constructive discussion starts to happen around team comp
• Someone said power necros and mercy rune warriors are easy
• Take it personally. Everyone thinks I suck at the game!
• Talk crap to everybody on the Abjured for two pages
• Blame everyone else in the thread for being unconstructive

How shall this continue to unfold, I wonder! I finished my piece on constructive discussion regarding Cele’s role in team comps though, my work is done. Chaith outie.

kitten

again, chaith and ozee, do you have any constructive ideas on how to fix the cele issue? or are you going to keep trolling?

hey I like this thread. everyone is really coming together to talk about a very pressing topic in the pvp community!!

op necro I see some of your concerns. have you tried to change what music you listen to when you fight ? I personally think this song is a must in order to soothe the psyche https://soundcloud.com/doodledude9001/game-of-weed

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Was never trolling, you’re just literally ignorant. You’re blind-sided by the idea that your team is only losing because celestial amulet is overpowered.

Have you ever considered the repercussions for removing celestial amulet? The next complaint about engineer will be that rune of balthazar is too strong on rabid engineers. Elementalists will go back to being suboptimal in any team composition. Warrior will return to being the Apex predator. Power Necromancer will still be terrible with terrible positioning. Mercy warrior will be useless because everything will be that much glassier and have more cleave than currently.

Have you seen Supcutie’s new mesmer guide? He’s the best mesmer multiverse and he switched to celestial shatter! If Supcutie likes it, then I think it should stay in the game. Check it out https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Supcutie-s-Comprehensive-PvP-Shatter-Guide/page/2#post4636435

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

I really think you just need a better macro for your lich form burst (same as you did for s/t dps guard rotation). Starting Point Hint: set 1 on lich to auto.

#dankburn

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Was never trolling, you’re just literally ignorant. You’re blind-sided by the idea that your team is only losing because celestial amulet is overpowered.

Have you ever considered the repercussions for removing celestial amulet? The next complaint about engineer will be that rune of balthazar is too strong on rabid engineers. Elementalists will go back to being suboptimal in any team composition. Warrior will return to being the Apex predator. Power Necromancer will still be terrible with terrible positioning. Mercy warrior will be useless because everything will be that much glassier and have more cleave than currently.

I have considered that and already made multiple posts on it.
There were multiple buffs to elementlist with the feature patch, including fire 3 being an evade, another blast finisher in water, etc. At this time in the game if a D/D ele runs valk, with the buffs from the feature patch, they will be powerful, but not overpowered as they are now.

Engineers are at the point where they can, through CC, damage, etc. Kill just about anything including their once counter, necromancer, and anything without a counter is overpowered as hell, so, if rabid balth comes back, they will have a counter, and there will be balance. Also, with the addition of more condi, guardians may be able to come back and be part of the meta.

So, what is YOUR solution to fix the issue if mine is so bad??

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Was never trolling, you’re just literally ignorant. You’re blind-sided by the idea that your team is only losing because celestial amulet is overpowered.

Have you ever considered the repercussions for removing celestial amulet? The next complaint about engineer will be that rune of balthazar is too strong on rabid engineers. Elementalists will go back to being suboptimal in any team composition. Warrior will return to being the Apex predator. Power Necromancer will still be terrible with terrible positioning. Mercy warrior will be useless because everything will be that much glassier and have more cleave than currently.

I have considered that and already made multiple posts on it.
There were multiple buffs to elementlist with the feature patch, including fire 3 being an evade, another blast finisher in water, etc. At this time in the game if a D/D ele runs valk, with the buffs from the feature patch, they will be powerful, but not overpowered as they are now.

Engineers are at the point where they can, through CC, damage, etc. Kill just about anything including their once counter, necromancer, and anything without a counter is overpowered as hell, so, if rabid balth comes back, they will have a counter, and there will be balance. Also, with the addition of more condi, guardians may be able to come back and be part of the meta.

So, what is YOUR solution to fix the issue if mine is so bad??

Necromancer is still a hard-counter to engineer. The fact that a necromancer can +1 a fight and instantly global an engineer is a hard counter. 1v1s are not the only factor that represent nor define “hard-counter”. Necromancers still beat engineers 1v1.

I apologize for sounding redundant but I was hoping that repetition would allow you to understand.

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Was never trolling, you’re just literally ignorant. You’re blind-sided by the idea that your team is only losing because celestial amulet is overpowered.

Have you ever considered the repercussions for removing celestial amulet? The next complaint about engineer will be that rune of balthazar is too strong on rabid engineers. Elementalists will go back to being suboptimal in any team composition. Warrior will return to being the Apex predator. Power Necromancer will still be terrible with terrible positioning. Mercy warrior will be useless because everything will be that much glassier and have more cleave than currently.

I have considered that and already made multiple posts on it.
There were multiple buffs to elementlist with the feature patch, including fire 3 being an evade, another blast finisher in water, etc. At this time in the game if a D/D ele runs valk, with the buffs from the feature patch, they will be powerful, but not overpowered as they are now.

Engineers are at the point where they can, through CC, damage, etc. Kill just about anything including their once counter, necromancer, and anything without a counter is overpowered as hell, so, if rabid balth comes back, they will have a counter, and there will be balance. Also, with the addition of more condi, guardians may be able to come back and be part of the meta.

So, what is YOUR solution to fix the issue if mine is so bad??

Necromancer is still a hard-counter to engineer. The fact that a necromancer can +1 a fight and instantly global an engineer is a hard counter. 1v1s are not the only factor that represent nor define “hard-counter”. Necromancers still beat engineers 1v1.

You have a very good point, the one issue is necromancer is regarded as one of the very slowest classes in the game, while thief, is typically the +1 er because of mobility.
So, because necromancer is incredibly slow I find it hard to consider that it would have to be used in the +1 scenarios because it is likely by the time the necromancer arrives it WILL be just a 1v1.

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Was never trolling, you’re just literally ignorant. You’re blind-sided by the idea that your team is only losing because celestial amulet is overpowered.

Have you ever considered the repercussions for removing celestial amulet? The next complaint about engineer will be that rune of balthazar is too strong on rabid engineers. Elementalists will go back to being suboptimal in any team composition. Warrior will return to being the Apex predator. Power Necromancer will still be terrible with terrible positioning. Mercy warrior will be useless because everything will be that much glassier and have more cleave than currently.

I have considered that and already made multiple posts on it.
There were multiple buffs to elementlist with the feature patch, including fire 3 being an evade, another blast finisher in water, etc. At this time in the game if a D/D ele runs valk, with the buffs from the feature patch, they will be powerful, but not overpowered as they are now.

Engineers are at the point where they can, through CC, damage, etc. Kill just about anything including their once counter, necromancer, and anything without a counter is overpowered as hell, so, if rabid balth comes back, they will have a counter, and there will be balance. Also, with the addition of more condi, guardians may be able to come back and be part of the meta.

So, what is YOUR solution to fix the issue if mine is so bad??

Necromancer is still a hard-counter to engineer. The fact that a necromancer can +1 a fight and instantly global an engineer is a hard counter. 1v1s are not the only factor that represent nor define “hard-counter”. Necromancers still beat engineers 1v1.

You have a very good point, the one issue is necromancer is regarded as one of the very slowest classes in the game, while thief, is typically the +1 er because of mobility.
So, because necromancer is incredibly slow I find it hard to consider that it would have to be used in the +1 scenarios because it is likely by the time the necromancer arrives it WILL be just a 1v1.

The fact that a well-played elementalist can survive 1v2 for a decent amount of time vs other celestial classes (such an engineer) allows a necromancer to be able to still +1 fights such as those which is a representation of how one celestial class balances out another in this meta.

Another factor is keeping numbers on the players on the opposite team and who is going to respawn where for optimal rotations.

Overall, fixing engineer and elementalist would require an ample amount of time because removing them from the meta would cause other classes to become “overpowered”

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Was never trolling, you’re just literally ignorant. You’re blind-sided by the idea that your team is only losing because celestial amulet is overpowered.

Have you ever considered the repercussions for removing celestial amulet? The next complaint about engineer will be that rune of balthazar is too strong on rabid engineers. Elementalists will go back to being suboptimal in any team composition. Warrior will return to being the Apex predator. Power Necromancer will still be terrible with terrible positioning. Mercy warrior will be useless because everything will be that much glassier and have more cleave than currently.

I have considered that and already made multiple posts on it.
There were multiple buffs to elementlist with the feature patch, including fire 3 being an evade, another blast finisher in water, etc. At this time in the game if a D/D ele runs valk, with the buffs from the feature patch, they will be powerful, but not overpowered as they are now.

Engineers are at the point where they can, through CC, damage, etc. Kill just about anything including their once counter, necromancer, and anything without a counter is overpowered as hell, so, if rabid balth comes back, they will have a counter, and there will be balance. Also, with the addition of more condi, guardians may be able to come back and be part of the meta.

So, what is YOUR solution to fix the issue if mine is so bad??

Necromancer is still a hard-counter to engineer. The fact that a necromancer can +1 a fight and instantly global an engineer is a hard counter. 1v1s are not the only factor that represent nor define “hard-counter”. Necromancers still beat engineers 1v1.

You have a very good point, the one issue is necromancer is regarded as one of the very slowest classes in the game, while thief, is typically the +1 er because of mobility.
So, because necromancer is incredibly slow I find it hard to consider that it would have to be used in the +1 scenarios because it is likely by the time the necromancer arrives it WILL be just a 1v1.

The fact that a well-played elementalist can survive 1v2 for a decent amount of time vs other celestial classes (such an engineer) allows a necromancer to be able to still +1 fights such as those which is a representation of how one celestial class balances out another in this meta.

Another factor is keeping numbers on the players on the opposite team and who is going to respawn where for optimal rotations.

Overall, fixing engineer and elementalist would require an ample amount of time because removing them from the meta would cause other classes to become “overpowered”

Removing celestial amulet would not at all move them out of the meta, it will simply make it so the meta is concerned specifically with it.

Also, you have some solid points on how a team can work well against a celestial team by +1 with necromancer, what do you say to the many teams that do not have a necromancer? Also, celestial ele will prob +1 the engi faster then the ele, and I find it hard to believe that cele ele and cele engi would be beaten by condi necro with x class.

I’m just amazed at how tenacious firebird is.

Aeroxe.8140:

I’m just amazed at how tenacious firebird is.

I work as Comcast Tech support, I’m used to this kind of abuse LOL

Alright, I’ve read plenty of posts here that demand the nerf of the classes that abuse celestial amulet. While I completely agree that cele is out of hand, I’d rather point out my own thoughts as to why the meta needs to shift. No salt, or waterworks.

With all of the prior cash tournaments, and the future ones to come; we as a community, have to go off of the assumption that Arenanet would like to continue to push towards the dream, “Esports”. I would like to lay that as the ground work because this is 90% of my argument, and where I base my ideas off of. If that assumption is confirmed as false by Arenanet, then null and void any of the posts concerning “balances”. So, here’s my thoughts:

A game that is striving to become esports needs to be a spectator sport. Many streamers, and competitive players have said this time and time again. While everyone has their own thoughts as to how to make this better, I will make it simple. The game needs to be exciting to watch. Viewers WANT to see the “oh kitten” moments and the “heads up” plays. Celestial amulets and bruiser builds don’t cater to the exciting moments to be had in this game. More-so than most, this game demands mechanically well-rounded, and fast twitch game play. When one player/team beats another, it SHOULD be based off of them being better than the other player/team. Celestial amulet is so forgiving that it doesn’t truly matter if you dodge or mitigate damage, you can simply face tank it. For the past two major tournaments (WTS and All-Stars), I have fallen asleep while watching the stream due to general lack of captivation. Big plays, get big views. Honestly, golf has more exciting plays than Guild Wars 2 right now.

My goal here isn’t to flame anyone (despite popular belief), or belittle the community. But, let’s be real, players who were considered low to mid tier are now bathing in the light of e-fame due to celestial amulet alone. Reserve the cash tournaments for the players who dedicate endless hours to being better duelists, and team players. These are the type of players who spend hours attempting to be mechanically flawless on their zerk builds because one mistake, or mis-timed dodge, may be the end of them. These are the guys I want to watch, and these are the guys I want to root for. The groundwork for an amazingly competitive game has been laid, but it’s almost as if it’s being ignored so as to appeal to casual players. At the end of the day, I should want to strive to play like my favorite player, or team. I shouldn’t be able to pick up the controls and be playing at the same level as these “top tier” players within a matter of days, or even hours. Granted, some classes/builds have naturally lower skill floors than others, but what I’m asking is for Anet to raise the skill cap.

I’ve been very ambiguous in this thread, so I apologize for not coming with the “solutions” to the problem. Frankly, there’s a ridiculous number of ways this meta can shift into something more constructive for the e-sports scene. There are tons of more intelligent players than I that can dish out multiple approaches for change. If you wanted help, I’d give it. But for the past two and a half years it’s been less about listening to the community, and more about being too prideful to admit defeat. Put your hands up in the air, ask for help, and apply feedback.

TL;DR: Nerf Celestial Amulet.

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

KarinaCO.6948:

Firebird.8324:

If chaith, oizee, or karina post some idea on how to fix the celestial meta, where it is required to have 3 or more celestial players per team, I would be happy to know their ideas. OR you can keep trolling, because that makes you look like such good people.

why u so ignorant

Do you have a solution to the cele issue? or are you trolling again?

Was never trolling, you’re just literally ignorant. You’re blind-sided by the idea that your team is only losing because celestial amulet is overpowered.

Have you ever considered the repercussions for removing celestial amulet? The next complaint about engineer will be that rune of balthazar is too strong on rabid engineers. Elementalists will go back to being suboptimal in any team composition. Warrior will return to being the Apex predator. Power Necromancer will still be terrible with terrible positioning. Mercy warrior will be useless because everything will be that much glassier and have more cleave than currently.

I have considered that and already made multiple posts on it.
There were multiple buffs to elementlist with the feature patch, including fire 3 being an evade, another blast finisher in water, etc. At this time in the game if a D/D ele runs valk, with the buffs from the feature patch, they will be powerful, but not overpowered as they are now.

Engineers are at the point where they can, through CC, damage, etc. Kill just about anything including their once counter, necromancer, and anything without a counter is overpowered as hell, so, if rabid balth comes back, they will have a counter, and there will be balance. Also, with the addition of more condi, guardians may be able to come back and be part of the meta.

So, what is YOUR solution to fix the issue if mine is so bad??

Necromancer is still a hard-counter to engineer. The fact that a necromancer can +1 a fight and instantly global an engineer is a hard counter. 1v1s are not the only factor that represent nor define “hard-counter”. Necromancers still beat engineers 1v1.

You have a very good point, the one issue is necromancer is regarded as one of the very slowest classes in the game, while thief, is typically the +1 er because of mobility.
So, because necromancer is incredibly slow I find it hard to consider that it would have to be used in the +1 scenarios because it is likely by the time the necromancer arrives it WILL be just a 1v1.

The fact that a well-played elementalist can survive 1v2 for a decent amount of time vs other celestial classes (such an engineer) allows a necromancer to be able to still +1 fights such as those which is a representation of how one celestial class balances out another in this meta.

Another factor is keeping numbers on the players on the opposite team and who is going to respawn where for optimal rotations.

Overall, fixing engineer and elementalist would require an ample amount of time because removing them from the meta would cause other classes to become “overpowered”

Removing celestial amulet would not at all move them out of the meta, it will simply make it so the meta is concerned specifically with it.

Also, you have some solid points on how a team can work well against a celestial team by +1 with necromancer, what do you say to the many teams that do not have a necromancer? Also, celestial ele will prob +1 the engi faster then the ele, and I find it hard to believe that cele ele and cele engi would be beaten by condi necro with x class.

Teams without a necromancer will definitely have a disadvantage vs teams with celestial engineers and celestial elementalists. However, mechanical skill now comes into play. I’m not trying to bash anyone but if chaith and nos were to 2v2 vs hman and oeggs the former would win simply because engineer and necromancer have a synergy that can completely shut down most professions with the amount of ccs available if played correctly.

Basically an engineer and necromancer can bait an elementalist’s cooldowns until being able to cc him out of his water attunement and kill him. Engineer vs engi/necro will get destroyed if caught in a cc chain especially since most engis no longer run with elixir s making them more vulnerable.

I made that into a seperate thread, I was just asked to post this here as well. Forgive me. TL;DR at the bottom.

DevilsGlare.7658:

I made that into a seperate thread, I was just asked to post this here as well. Forgive me. TL;DR at the bottom.

Ty for putting that here, if we get a cele debate thread getting big enough, something might get done.