Guild Wars 2

Go look at the “nerf” notes lol….

Your comp is as cheesy as celestial.

This thread is pure gold. So much chest thumping over a simple game of hop scotch.

Jerkers of the circle, I salute you!

This is better than the fappening. I’m also looking for forward for the next few hundreds of cele ele threads from Firebird. Now someone hand me those popcorns

Honestly all of you are horrible ill be looking foward to collecting my money tomorrow, pce ^.^.

Dustin.2793:

Honestly all of you are horrible ill be looking foward to collecting my money tomorrow, pce ^.^.

Try not to cheat to get it.

Firebird.8324:

Dustin.2793:

Honestly all of you are horrible ill be looking foward to collecting my money tomorrow, pce ^.^.

Try not to cheat to get it.

How do you cheat in gw2 my virgin

I am waiting for a response from the comcast internet guy on how you cheat in GW2

And also stop begging me for gold

Dustin.2793:

I am waiting for a response from the comcast internet guy on how you cheat in GW2

Cheating is logging into an alt account to play in a tourney that you cannot enter because of your previous winnings.

Firebird.8324:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Chaith.8256:

Question to people that hate the Cele bruiser meta. Why? Can anyone please articulate their thoughts on the toxicity of Cele bruisers for the enjoyment of the game.

I didn’t read the rest of this post, but screw it. Here’s my reasons why I hate this meta:

1. It Minimalizes Working Builds – No one plays bunker guardian. Why? Did it get weaker? No. We just gained the ability to have builds that work in pretty much every situation. The teamwork factor that comes with proper rotations is gone. It’s just about matching numbers and being a better cele. There are no “jobs” anymore. I don’t make a build with the intend of a single goal like bursting, support or bunkering, I make a build with the intent of being able to do everything.
2. Certain aspects of play are gone – Rotating the right stuff to the right place has turned into just matching numbers. Watching out for bursts is pretty much gone. It’s just outsustain right now. You might go for a focus fire, but that’s not really the same thing. Stomps are also pretty rare now, especially in team fights. No bunker guardian made it so players are pretty much only going for DPS outs, even against things like warriors! DPSing out a target isn’t really that interesting to me. The play of trying to maintain DPS so you can get a stomp off is a lot more interesting.
3. Mobility isn’t a counter – These comps play on all three points. They’re pretty kitten fast too unless you’re taking a necromancer. Thief, ele and engi are all really fast.
4. They’re really hard to duel against – It’s not about getting a good burst off, it’s about getting multiple bursts off while not letting them even get one. If I want to kill a cele engi on power nades, I’ve found that I need anywhere from 2-4 really good bursts to get them down. In a row. They really only need to maintain pressure via burning and occasionally get a few hits in.
5. It DOES take less skill – Is the skill ceiling still high? Yes. There are a lot of things you can do with cele engi and ele to make yourself the best in the world. But the punishment for kittening those things up is WAY lower than most builds. On burst builds, kittening up, having bad positioning or focusing the wrong guy could equal death. Don’t even get me started on 100 mines and other like yolo builds.
6. Burning On Cele is Dumb – This goes a bit beyond cele, but I think it’s a big reason why it works. Engineer has incendiary powder which is really hard to avoid. Ele has drake’s breath which requires two dodges to fully avoid and burns you for eternity (12s on a 6s recharge). Combustive Shot burns everyone. If you miss with this, uninstall GW2.
7. Sustain is really hard to stop – For warrior, it’s healing signet which they never use and traits that regen them. For engineer, it’s a 1/2 cast time skill, backpack regenerator and transmute. For ele, it’s a dodge in water, small healing on all casts, regeneration and two skills you can actually interrupt. The only real good counter is poison, but they remove it so much that you need a crazy amount of poison to do it!
8. Games going to Timer – Because there’s three decaps almost all the time, it’s boring to play and watch. I vastly prefer the super active fights where doing something wrong can spell death, not a slight loss in health. I want people to be making PLAYS, not just trying to stall the game/fights. “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND HE GOES DOWN” instead of “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND I THINK IF HE CAN GET LIKE 4 MORE IN THE NEXT 10 SECONDS WE MIGHT SEE SOMEONE DIE”.
9. In the ideal game, every build is equally viable – Cele is a meta right now. People want to play their style of builds and not be worse off for it.
   
   The concept of a build being able to do everything is broken. It’s called “Holes in Roles”. There are no decently enough sized holes in these builds.

You put into words the thoughts of many, nice Post.

I always found it weird that posts where people are in a flame war get like a billion times more responses than ones that are well written and correct. Two people commented on my post so far xD

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Firebird.8324:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Chaith.8256:

Question to people that hate the Cele bruiser meta. Why? Can anyone please articulate their thoughts on the toxicity of Cele bruisers for the enjoyment of the game.

I didn’t read the rest of this post, but screw it. Here’s my reasons why I hate this meta:

1. It Minimalizes Working Builds – No one plays bunker guardian. Why? Did it get weaker? No. We just gained the ability to have builds that work in pretty much every situation. The teamwork factor that comes with proper rotations is gone. It’s just about matching numbers and being a better cele. There are no “jobs” anymore. I don’t make a build with the intend of a single goal like bursting, support or bunkering, I make a build with the intent of being able to do everything.
2. Certain aspects of play are gone – Rotating the right stuff to the right place has turned into just matching numbers. Watching out for bursts is pretty much gone. It’s just outsustain right now. You might go for a focus fire, but that’s not really the same thing. Stomps are also pretty rare now, especially in team fights. No bunker guardian made it so players are pretty much only going for DPS outs, even against things like warriors! DPSing out a target isn’t really that interesting to me. The play of trying to maintain DPS so you can get a stomp off is a lot more interesting.
3. Mobility isn’t a counter – These comps play on all three points. They’re pretty kitten fast too unless you’re taking a necromancer. Thief, ele and engi are all really fast.
4. They’re really hard to duel against – It’s not about getting a good burst off, it’s about getting multiple bursts off while not letting them even get one. If I want to kill a cele engi on power nades, I’ve found that I need anywhere from 2-4 really good bursts to get them down. In a row. They really only need to maintain pressure via burning and occasionally get a few hits in.
5. It DOES take less skill – Is the skill ceiling still high? Yes. There are a lot of things you can do with cele engi and ele to make yourself the best in the world. But the punishment for kittening those things up is WAY lower than most builds. On burst builds, kittening up, having bad positioning or focusing the wrong guy could equal death. Don’t even get me started on 100 mines and other like yolo builds.
6. Burning On Cele is Dumb – This goes a bit beyond cele, but I think it’s a big reason why it works. Engineer has incendiary powder which is really hard to avoid. Ele has drake’s breath which requires two dodges to fully avoid and burns you for eternity (12s on a 6s recharge). Combustive Shot burns everyone. If you miss with this, uninstall GW2.
7. Sustain is really hard to stop – For warrior, it’s healing signet which they never use and traits that regen them. For engineer, it’s a 1/2 cast time skill, backpack regenerator and transmute. For ele, it’s a dodge in water, small healing on all casts, regeneration and two skills you can actually interrupt. The only real good counter is poison, but they remove it so much that you need a crazy amount of poison to do it!
8. Games going to Timer – Because there’s three decaps almost all the time, it’s boring to play and watch. I vastly prefer the super active fights where doing something wrong can spell death, not a slight loss in health. I want people to be making PLAYS, not just trying to stall the game/fights. “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND HE GOES DOWN” instead of “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND I THINK IF HE CAN GET LIKE 4 MORE IN THE NEXT 10 SECONDS WE MIGHT SEE SOMEONE DIE”.
9. In the ideal game, every build is equally viable – Cele is a meta right now. People want to play their style of builds and not be worse off for it.
   
   The concept of a build being able to do everything is broken. It’s called “Holes in Roles”. There are no decently enough sized holes in these builds.

You put into words the thoughts of many, nice Post.

I always found it weird that posts where people are in a flame war get like a billion times more responses than ones that are well written and correct. Two people commented on my post so far xD

I’mma repost that as well, because it is useful. What can you do about trolls? they attack anything.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Chaith.8256:

Question to people that hate the Cele bruiser meta. Why? Can anyone please articulate their thoughts on the toxicity of Cele bruisers for the enjoyment of the game.

I didn’t read the rest of this post, but screw it. Here’s my reasons why I hate this meta:

1. It Minimalizes Working Builds – No one plays bunker guardian. Why? Did it get weaker? No. We just gained the ability to have builds that work in pretty much every situation. The teamwork factor that comes with proper rotations is gone. It’s just about matching numbers and being a better cele. There are no “jobs” anymore. I don’t make a build with the intend of a single goal like bursting, support or bunkering, I make a build with the intent of being able to do everything.
2. Certain aspects of play are gone – Rotating the right stuff to the right place has turned into just matching numbers. Watching out for bursts is pretty much gone. It’s just outsustain right now. You might go for a focus fire, but that’s not really the same thing. Stomps are also pretty rare now, especially in team fights. No bunker guardian made it so players are pretty much only going for DPS outs, even against things like warriors! DPSing out a target isn’t really that interesting to me. The play of trying to maintain DPS so you can get a stomp off is a lot more interesting.
3. Mobility isn’t a counter – These comps play on all three points. They’re pretty kitten fast too unless you’re taking a necromancer. Thief, ele and engi are all really fast.
4. They’re really hard to duel against – It’s not about getting a good burst off, it’s about getting multiple bursts off while not letting them even get one. If I want to kill a cele engi on power nades, I’ve found that I need anywhere from 2-4 really good bursts to get them down. In a row. They really only need to maintain pressure via burning and occasionally get a few hits in.
5. It DOES take less skill – Is the skill ceiling still high? Yes. There are a lot of things you can do with cele engi and ele to make yourself the best in the world. But the punishment for kittening those things up is WAY lower than most builds. On burst builds, kittening up, having bad positioning or focusing the wrong guy could equal death. Don’t even get me started on 100 mines and other like yolo builds.
6. Burning On Cele is Dumb – This goes a bit beyond cele, but I think it’s a big reason why it works. Engineer has incendiary powder which is really hard to avoid. Ele has drake’s breath which requires two dodges to fully avoid and burns you for eternity (12s on a 6s recharge). Combustive Shot burns everyone. If you miss with this, uninstall GW2.
7. Sustain is really hard to stop – For warrior, it’s healing signet which they never use and traits that regen them. For engineer, it’s a 1/2 cast time skill, backpack regenerator and transmute. For ele, it’s a dodge in water, small healing on all casts, regeneration and two skills you can actually interrupt. The only real good counter is poison, but they remove it so much that you need a crazy amount of poison to do it!
8. Games going to Timer – Because there’s three decaps almost all the time, it’s boring to play and watch. I vastly prefer the super active fights where doing something wrong can spell death, not a slight loss in health. I want people to be making PLAYS, not just trying to stall the game/fights. “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND HE GOES DOWN” instead of “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND I THINK IF HE CAN GET LIKE 4 MORE IN THE NEXT 10 SECONDS WE MIGHT SEE SOMEONE DIE”.
9. In the ideal game, every build is equally viable – Cele is a meta right now. People want to play their style of builds and not be worse off for it.
   
   The concept of a build being able to do everything is broken. It’s called “Holes in Roles”. There are no decently enough sized holes in these builds.

Reposting for posterity

DevilsGlare.7658:

Chaith.8256:

DevilsGlare.7658:

The “top” players right now focus on their small skirmishes and 1v1s. It nearly feels and seems as if they’re building for themselves and in a selfish way. This is a team game, and with that should mean team synergy. So, why the kitten is there a bunch of wanna-be 1v1 hero’s running around? (Rhetorical)

^If anyone has a high opinion of their plays and strategies, thinks they’ve been around the block and would beat those young whippersnappers at the top now, that’d be you, who suggested the 2-1-2 strat that imploded the universe.

If I have come across arrogant and superior sounding it wasn’t my intention, but you’re down there with me, especially after engaging me in this conversation lol

Can’t, friend. Currently in Korea, therefore I’m a “non-compete” for the NA scene. If you didn’t know, I’ve been here for the past 2 years (which is why our team disbanded).

I’ll be competing in EU shortly, upon my arrival in Germany. Hopefully you’re still around after this whole celestial deal. I wouldn’t miss the chance to show you what you really are. It’ll be like the old days. Stay small, Chaith.

Vain your wisdom is infinite!
who dis your arguing with ?
<3

DevilsGlare.7658:

Lol, I am an “old timer”, Chaith. And this old timer remembers how completely irrelevant you were for the first 2 years of this game. Your biggest issue? Your attitude, and your inability to rotate properly. Which is ironic really, because you happen to be defending your “godlike” rotations as of these days.

It’s no accident you became apart of a winning team the moment celestial amulet became a thing, really. I’m humble enough to admit you’ve always been a solid engineer mechanically. But, my team could always rely on you overextending and being out of position to snowball a fight. Good thing you’ve got celestial on your side, eh?

Not sure where this is coming from. From a mechanical standpoint, I think there are several engineers stronger than Chaith. However, I do really respect his rotations and situational awareness. How often do you see people get back caps when he’s the one keeping track of the node? You haven’t played with him recently, and it doesn’t even seem like you’ve watched the matches, because you’re just pulling stuff out of your kitten .

Booms.2594:

also to be fair, when GF dominated there was no competition whatsoever

I don’t understand how a team being dominant diminishes their accomplishments. You’ll always hear people talk about how the old school players were so much better, but now they quit and there’s no competition in the game. Now, though, it’s convenient to say that the players now are just that much better? Your argument is pointless and stupid.

Booms.2594:

oh yes so you played a meta build when it was meta and now you play another meta build when its meta. ok.

Meta builds are called that because they are strong. Running a meta build is about getting the optimal reward from your skill. On another note, I think you need to differentiate between meta and cheese, because many people here combine the two.

Sol.4310:

If I was to balance Celestial Amulet, I would almost completely remove Power/Condition/Critical Damage from the Amulet leaving the sustain and might stacking alone, big reason the Amulet works so well is due to the Critical Damage scaling so well once you reach around 2k power.

That’s way too big of a nerf. The whole point of the celestial amulet is to have an even spread. A jack-of-all-trades but master of none. At the moment, it’s the master of everything because of might stacking. Might stacking is what needs to change.

ArrDee.2573:

I’m not trolling your thread you thilly bear! You say this thread is about Celestial Amulets but really you’re just taking pot shots at the Abjured! I know you’re upset because you can’t beat them but let’s take a look at why!

• Your condi Necro loses to Engi 1v1! Player skill issues! How do you expect to beat a team if you can’t win a fight that you absolutely 100% should win every time!
• One of your team comps is Mercy Rune Warrior, 2 condi Necro, 2 ranger! Another is Mercy Rune Warrior and 2 power Necros! What are you thinking! Get a better team comp! Stop with the Mercy Rune Warriors! Clearly that doesn’t work because in your 100% loss rate against the Abjured, the only constant seems to be the useless Mercy Rune Warrior! How are you going to res through all that cleave! Use your brains meng! Your strategy is literally planning for a loss! It’s like traiting for downstate!
• You say Celestial is the meta, and yet you run none of the few classes that can utilize this amulet well! And then you talk about adapting to the meta! What!
• I have never complained about Celestial Amulet! There are like 3/8 classes that can use this amulet! Nerfing this amulet just makes it unusable for everybody! The damage output of this amulet is TERRIBLE without might stacks! I have only stated that Elementalists are overpowdered but not because of Celestial! It’s because they have crazy burn uptime, stacking 25 might for their entire team, crazy protection uptime, the only class with permanent vigor, insane sustain in the membrane, etc! Get good son!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

1) “100% should win everytime.” This implies profession X running build Y should hard counter profession A running any build that is viable in any way. This is unhealthy. Player skill should be the decider of any engagement.

2)“Clearly doesn’t work.” Only highlights the issue of runes. Some definitely have more PvP use than others. Runes were intended to augment or strengthen builds, but not play such a wingnut role that they can make or break a build or team entirely. The 6 x universal runes only diminished customized builds.

3) “3/8 profession can make use of celestial. If you nerf it no one can make use of it.” You just made an imperative statement that only 3 out of 8 can use it anyway. So nerfing it doesn’t ruin it for the other professions who already aren’t/can’t use it. It only nerfs it for the “3 of 8” that are using it.

4) They are trying to get good using what resources are available to them. In this case, it is the stated mercy runpower necro team set up and by sticking to a desired play style and mastering it. If that playstyle was good enough to have them play against the most consistent winning comp team, then it shows personal and team progression has occurred. It also highlights that a glass ceiling may/may not have been hit. Which means point 2 needs to be more closely looked at. Why can’t power necro+mercy warrior ever win?..is it the players or is it what the Op is claiming..that celestial heavy teams dominate too easily? Which means point 2 about runes/amulets should receive closer inspection.

I am not someone who is really good enough at the game anymore to pass comment, and I don’t play often or seriously.

Having said all this, I actually find air/fire procs more of an issue than celestial. Yeh celestial sucks and yeh there is a reason why there are tons of elite eles and engis (cos its easy as kitten). But I hate just getting auto attacked by a perma dodging thief and losing 7k HP.

Maybe its cos in a celestial meta necro actually is useful. If the game goes to a burst meta with fire/air mesmer/thief comps necro will just get owned hard. So there is some vested interest here. I’m not sure nerfing celestial would be good for necros even though they dont use it. Cause and effect I guess. :P

Either way I don’t really care what they do. Balance – I mean who cares really, this game is child’s play where winning means beating the other 4 teams who play the game. It is like being the best GW2 player in your extended family. Utterly pointless. No viewer base. No serious player base. Either way I don’t care what they do, I achieved my only goal which was to end as rank one solo queue with a high win %, once I had done that I just dont see the point in playing anymore, not seriously at least. Nothing for me to do now. No solo q. No new weapons. No new traits. Nothing for a solo player to do to prove themselves. So I’m not bothered, just thought I would throw my two cents in.

Ego wars 2 going on this thread. Keep it coming

Risk/reward is just screwed in it’s entirety in gw2. Part of the issue is that the skill ceiling is too low, creating a lot of easy to medium hard builds that are quite forgiving and rewarding.

@Olrun – Did you mist the part where I said those were his issues as of 2 years ago? Olrun, you ride competitive players so hard I almost couldn’t tell who I was talking to. Stay in your lane, hot shot.

I clearly said his performance and that of his teams puts me to sleep. ZZzzZZzzzZz.

So Gates I’m going to respond to your points from my perspective in PvP, also looking at your points when going from the previous meta builds to the new meta builds. IE: Rabid Pistols transitioning to Cele Rifle.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Here’s my reasons why I hate this meta:

1. It Minimalizes Working Builds – No one plays bunker guardian. There are no “jobs” anymore. I make a build with the intent of being able to do everything.

Guardian and Ranger confirmed pushed out of the top meta builds, which is unfortunate. Things that became possible with Celestial that weren’t before: Sword/Warhorn War, Rifle Engineer, Eles in general. I don’t think they are among the meta builds with Valk amulet right now.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Certain aspects of play are gone – Rotating the right stuff to the right place has turned into just matching numbers. Watching out for bursts is pretty much gone. It’s just outsustain right now.

This is not completely true in Cele Comps, you do still micromanage who fights who a lot. This is because nobody wants to have 2 D/D Eles trying to quickly kill a Guardian/War/Ele. You need high DPS people like a Necro/Engi or Engi/Thief or Necro/Thief to bunker bust good people and not get stalled on. My team has 2 on-point fighters and 3 roamers.

You say there is now little burst to watch out for, that’s true in the case in the introduction of Cele Sword/Horn war. The older Hammer build which is only seen occasionally now was more involving with the abilities you had to watch for. However, D/D Eles you still have to watch out for the same things if they have a Valk’s amulet or Celestial, in order to not die. And I think the Engineer’s damage on Rifle requires the player to really watch out for bursts, as opposed to wearing people down with strong Incendiary Powders.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Mobility isn’t a counter – These comps play on all three points. They’re pretty kitten fast too unless you’re taking a necromancer. Thief, ele and engi are all really fast.

Three point strats aren’t new, and speed of people hasn’t increased with Cele, with an exception being Warriors with Savage Leap now.

Ranger and Guard aren’t the fastest rotating professions, that’s a solid reason why they may not be look at favorably.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. They’re really hard to duel against – It’s not about getting a good burst off, it’s about getting multiple bursts off while not letting them even get one.

Yes, Berserker Engi v. Cele Engi is a struggle because Celestial is itemized way better due to the fact that even if you run Zerker, you have a bunch of bleed, burn, and poison that you aren’t making the most of. You’re right though, Cele builds are generally better duelists because you’re often guaranteed to survive at least 60 seconds long, and won’t get mopped up 1v1 quickly. That’s one of the key perks for trading off burst. But if someone has the time for the 1v1 to go full circle, ask Nos or Toker, Necro and Thief can duel Cele builds and it’s anyone’s game. This is where rotations can easily sway 1v1 results either way because they rarely go full term.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. It DOES take less skill – Having bad positioning or focusing the wrong guy could equal death.

Invest your character into doing clutch moments of burst, miss that, and yes you’re going to be #rekt. This is the age old tanky vs. Berserker argument. As with this argument, sustain power obviously does make your build more forgiving than one that doesn’t. You’re not wrong on that point. Survivability skill is only one dimension of mechanical skill though.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Burning On Cele is Dumb – This goes a bit beyond cele, but I think it’s a big reason why it works. .

Burning is more aids on Rabid. On Engi, about 100% more aids if you want to talk numbers, lol. It does go way beyond Cele, you’re right. If Cele Amulet was removed, and Engineers went back to Rabid, this problem you’re blaming on Cele builds perpetuating would actually get worse. Sword/Horn/Longbow Wars would just go Settlers. How is that better? More burning and survivability at the cost of damage.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Sustain is really hard to stop – The only real good counter is poison, but they remove it so much that you need a crazy amount of poison to do it!

I think that falls under a problem with the Profession, having Cele stats won’t make poison ineffective in the Engineer’s case where it goes 20 seconds at a time without any possibility to remove a condition.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Games going to Timer – Because there’s three decaps almost all the time, it’s boring to play and watch. I vastly prefer the super active fights where doing something wrong can spell death, not a slight loss in health.

Games going to timer are awful, I agree. I don’t attribute that to the current meta strategies or builds though. Games going to timer have happened in an abundance in the past. There’s 2 tanky Eles/Wars on point for a team, that doesn’t mean the Engi, Necro, and Thief aren’t absolutely wrecking people into next week and snowballing across the map. What you’re describing actually is what happens when one comp is too good at stalling and decapping for the current meta comps builds to snowball into a 3 cap. For example, TCG is extremely proficient at stalling and decapping. That guarantees timer games vs. the current NA Meta strategies.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. In the ideal game, every build is equally viable – Cele is a meta right now. People want to play their style of builds and not be worse off for it.

RIP Bunker Guardians and Rangers as A tier picks in the current Metagame. Truly, I wish that weren’t the case. If they were back in the Meta both of them would be picked over the Celestial builds they compete with. However, Berserker Hammer/Scepter&Focus Guardians are on the rise more than one top team in EU. RIP Rangers, please fix.

So that’s my take on it. Flame shield on for being an arrogant kitten who is defending his winnings.

I dont really like OPN, I think mechanically his team in general sucks except for Muubs, but this flowchart…is so accurate. Literally half the classes are no longer being seen in play. Mesmer, Guard, Ranger are all trash tier because of celestial amulet and the fact that it makes other classes do their role while sacrificing less. Honestly though I think there are also some class issues in terms of the engineer class. Tool Kit block is the most kittening kittened thing in the entire game. Slick shoes is instadeath for classes without stab or ports. I know you engi fanboys will come in here and say “engi is hard” but no it isnt. I can watch Backpacks cele engi guide and be a top tier engi mechanically. I watched Phantaram play and I can be a master at DD ele in 2 hours. Its really not hard at all. In terms of ele though, if cele is nerfed by 10-15% they should be SD thief and Shatter Mes food which is how it should be. Cele Warrior I dont think is game breaking, its a fairly weak build in terms of DPS. What could be done is nerf healing of shouts by 500 and nerf geomancy sigil to 2 stacks, since warrior is really the only class that depends on them for a large amount of DPS. After that cele nerf will take care of the rest.

-Teef Teef Teef Teef

In this thread: engineers telling people they aren’t OP they are just that dam good at the game and everyone else has to l2p. Classic :P

Hello fellow GW 2 players

My name is shotz we all want this game too be great and draw in many views hopefully be a contender like games LoL starcraft. The fact the matter is the devs honestly could care less about what you think could make the game better little known fact is my dad use too work for these so called devs who perceive themselves as listening to the players he got fired so I quit. To stay on topic fire bird no matter how many times you post this company has a different views on what export direction they heading towards whatever that may be. My suggestion everyone who deeply care about and read this post needs too move on too another game then there’s no need too worry about cele amy, after 2 years major WTS tourny gets 3k views. I would say I’m a advid twitch viewer and been monitoring gw2 progress over the years this last WTS tourny was unbearable too watch there’s know one too blame but the devs for that. For my own selfish reason I’m hoping too see some of my favorite streamers in Boston not because I support gw2 because of the entertainment value and personality of the streamer.

Josh.3759:

WTS tourny gets 3k views.

In China between facing Sala and TCG I pulled up twitch briefly and I think I saw it at 4800 twitch viewers around 5:00AM eastern if memory serves me right. Keep in mind it was televised in China, getting more exposure, but I have no idea how to measure. I think that on eastern primetime the twitch views will be much better.

So are you suggesting the game is making progress too a more export scene?

Josh.3759:

So are you suggesting the game is making progress too a more export scene?

Suggesting nothing that’s just the viewership numbers unless I am mistaken

Supreme.7352:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Chaith.8256:

Question to people that hate the Cele bruiser meta. Why? Can anyone please articulate their thoughts on the toxicity of Cele bruisers for the enjoyment of the game.

I didn’t read the rest of this post, but screw it. Here’s my reasons why I hate this meta:

1. It Minimalizes Working Builds – No one plays bunker guardian. Why? Did it get weaker? No. We just gained the ability to have builds that work in pretty much every situation. The teamwork factor that comes with proper rotations is gone. It’s just about matching numbers and being a better cele. There are no “jobs” anymore. I don’t make a build with the intend of a single goal like bursting, support or bunkering, I make a build with the intent of being able to do everything.
2. Certain aspects of play are gone – Rotating the right stuff to the right place has turned into just matching numbers. Watching out for bursts is pretty much gone. It’s just outsustain right now. You might go for a focus fire, but that’s not really the same thing. Stomps are also pretty rare now, especially in team fights. No bunker guardian made it so players are pretty much only going for DPS outs, even against things like warriors! DPSing out a target isn’t really that interesting to me. The play of trying to maintain DPS so you can get a stomp off is a lot more interesting.
3. Mobility isn’t a counter – These comps play on all three points. They’re pretty kitten fast too unless you’re taking a necromancer. Thief, ele and engi are all really fast.
4. They’re really hard to duel against – It’s not about getting a good burst off, it’s about getting multiple bursts off while not letting them even get one. If I want to kill a cele engi on power nades, I’ve found that I need anywhere from 2-4 really good bursts to get them down. In a row. They really only need to maintain pressure via burning and occasionally get a few hits in.
5. It DOES take less skill – Is the skill ceiling still high? Yes. There are a lot of things you can do with cele engi and ele to make yourself the best in the world. But the punishment for kittening those things up is WAY lower than most builds. On burst builds, kittening up, having bad positioning or focusing the wrong guy could equal death. Don’t even get me started on 100 mines and other like yolo builds.
6. Burning On Cele is Dumb – This goes a bit beyond cele, but I think it’s a big reason why it works. Engineer has incendiary powder which is really hard to avoid. Ele has drake’s breath which requires two dodges to fully avoid and burns you for eternity (12s on a 6s recharge). Combustive Shot burns everyone. If you miss with this, uninstall GW2.
7. Sustain is really hard to stop – For warrior, it’s healing signet which they never use and traits that regen them. For engineer, it’s a 1/2 cast time skill, backpack regenerator and transmute. For ele, it’s a dodge in water, small healing on all casts, regeneration and two skills you can actually interrupt. The only real good counter is poison, but they remove it so much that you need a crazy amount of poison to do it!
8. Games going to Timer – Because there’s three decaps almost all the time, it’s boring to play and watch. I vastly prefer the super active fights where doing something wrong can spell death, not a slight loss in health. I want people to be making PLAYS, not just trying to stall the game/fights. “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND HE GOES DOWN” instead of “OH SNAP HE JUST GOT THE BURST OFF AND I THINK IF HE CAN GET LIKE 4 MORE IN THE NEXT 10 SECONDS WE MIGHT SEE SOMEONE DIE”.
9. In the ideal game, every build is equally viable – Cele is a meta right now. People want to play their style of builds and not be worse off for it.
   
   The concept of a build being able to do everything is broken. It’s called “Holes in Roles”. There are no decently enough sized holes in these builds.

Reposting for posterity

Woo, what a post of beauty.

Chaith.8256:

Josh.3759:

WTS tourny gets 3k views.

In China between facing Sala and TCG I pulled up twitch briefly and I think I saw it at 4800 twitch viewers around 5:00AM eastern if memory serves me right. Keep in mind it was televised in China, getting more exposure, but I have no idea how to measure. I think that on eastern primetime the twitch views will be much better.

All whilst they ram these tournaments down our throat. In game messages. Forum messages. Putting it on gw2 stream. Putting streams on the official twitch stream. And still the viewership figures are hilarious for a game which is based online and does everything it can to promote it. They even have done giveaways for these stupid things.

So yeh, the esports scene is a distraction for like 60 people to feel pro about. I’m really glad we lost stuff like solo q just to please 60 people like you who want to feel all pro and want to force people into teams so you have more casuals to farm.

So unbelievably lame how anet are pushing this game against those of us who want to have fun.

Chaith.8256:

Also you seem really critical and begrudging towards the top players build choices, what strategies they use, and rotation tactics.

it’s understandable when these “top” players are nothing more than glorified above average players being carried solely by the strength of their build choices rather than their actual ability. players like wakkey epitomize this when he’s had a laughable history of “maining” whichever profession is the most imbalanced at the time.

it’s really pathetic to see that the people who are representing this game at it’s highest level of competition are mostly fairweather players who are actively looking to exploit this games imbalances.

i think oeggs is the only player on abjured that isn’t guilty of this.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Chaith.8256:

Josh.3759:

WTS tourny gets 3k views.

In China between facing Sala and TCG I pulled up twitch briefly and I think I saw it at 4800 twitch viewers around 5:00AM eastern if memory serves me right. Keep in mind it was televised in China, getting more exposure, but I have no idea how to measure. I think that on eastern primetime the twitch views will be much better.

All whilst they ram these tournaments down our throat. In game messages. Forum messages. Putting it on gw2 stream. Putting streams on the official twitch stream. And still the viewership figures are hilarious for a game which is based online and does everything it can to promote it. They even have done giveaways for these stupid things.

So yeh, the esports scene is a distraction for like 60 people to feel pro about. I’m really glad we lost stuff like solo q just to please 60 people like you who want to feel all pro and want to force people into teams so you have more casuals to farm.

So unbelievably lame how anet are pushing this game against those of us who want to have fun.

Get flak for not posting about it and nobody knowing about it,

Get flak for posting about it and jamming it down people’s throats.

I think it’s dumb to complain about advertising a tournament. Don’t type twitch.tv/guildwars2 in your browser if it’s that troubling for you.

sinject.4607:

it’s understandable when these “top” players are nothing more than glorified above average players being carried solely by the strength of their build choices rather than their actual ability. players like wakkey epitomize this when he’s had a laughable history of “maining” whichever profession is the most imbalanced at the time.

it’s really pathetic to see that the people who are representing this game at it’s highest level of competition are mostly fairweather players who are actively looking to exploit this games imbalances.

Seriously, there is no team in this game that would be like: “We already have 5 players tied for #1 mechanical & rotational skill, who play 3 professions each, let’s skip picking up Wakkey.” He’s a pleasure to be on a team with. Especially because not many people confidently multi-class without feeling they’re just inferior to their main, I don’t think you see the value in that.

Alright….I think many of the things that I wanted to say have already been said, as I’m not really in favour of either “side”. Therefore, I won’t waste anyone’s time with those nuisances. However, there are a few things that I would really want to touch upon that I think needs to be taken into more consideration when making future posts, for the sake of keeping the thread constructive and healthy:

1) There seems to be quite a bit of ….“calling out” on eachother in this thread. There are too many posts from both sides that have pointed out player skill, cheating, and exploitation of possible imbalances in the meta as a constructive argumentative basis. This is far from acceptable in my opinion, especially from well-known members of the community that are supposed to professionally represent the pvp scene.

2) I think we all just need to remind ourselves that everyone here just wants the game to get better and become an esport. We all love this game, and share a common goal. Instead of making a ridiculous number of threads on an amulet or making some ridiculous claims on the validity of certain players’ opinions, we should instead focus on the possible suggestions on improving the meta, and making appropriate, professional responses.

Together…let’s make this game better. Let’s not split up the community, as it is way too split at the moment. I know we can do it.

@Aeroxe – Fair enough, bud. You’re right.

@Chaith, I don’t have much time till work so I’m just going to quickly respond. I definitely side with what Vee Wee said earlier which is that the problem with celestial isn’t just the stats. Burning and hard to stop sustain are inherent issues with the classes. Cele just makes it so that all of the many skills that these builds have are working at a very strong level. The solution to simply nerf cele amulet is definitely wrong. The only way we’ll know if it is necessary is if the easy BS on these builds is gone.

And I think the Engineer’s damage on Rifle requires the player to really watch out for bursts, as opposed to wearing people down with strong Incendiary Powders.

When I play something more tanky like DD or cele nades, this is true. For bursters, it’s definitely not. I cannot allow ANYTHING to hit me, even auto attacks. I’ve done a lot of 1v1s where it was me on power nades vs condi nades and the only way to win that is to avoid literally everything, especially auto attacks. Yes, this is condi nades in this example, but cele nades isn’t much different in terms of needing to avoid that burn.

Invest your character into doing clutch moments of burst, miss that, and yes you’re going to be #rekt. This is the age old tanky vs. Berserker argument. As with this argument, sustain power obviously does make your build more forgiving than one that doesn’t. You’re not wrong on that point. Survivability skill is only one dimension of mechanical skill though.

The issue with sustained damage I see is that the damage is just a tiny bit over where it should be to be balanced. If you dip more into survivability, you should lose and equal amount of DPS, but in the case of condis, I don’t think that’s what happens. Instead, because condis only need one stat, it’s like the game considers it as you not really gaining that much more damage, when really you are.

Lordrosicky.5813:

In this thread: engineers telling people they aren’t OP they are just that dam good at the game and everyone else has to l2p. Classic :P

Kinda like how people think Mesmer, Ranger, or Necro is hard to play at all or is any way near UP, specially when the community you’re in is mechanically inferior.

Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

Engi takes more skill than any of those classes any time of the day.

Amir.1570:

Lordrosicky.5813:

In this thread: engineers telling people they aren’t OP they are just that dam good at the game and everyone else has to l2p. Classic :P

Kinda like how people think Mesmer, Ranger, or Necro is hard to play at all or is any way near UP, specially when the community you’re in is mechanically inferior.

Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

Engi takes more skill than any of those classes any time of the day.

that’s an absolute joke. engineer is the one of the easiest professions in the game bar none. it’s BUILT for a gamemode like conquest with heavy AoE damage, an elite like crate, heavy cc, etc. and to say that celestial engineer nonetheless is “hard” to play is even more laughable, especially when you’re comparing it to mesmer and necro.

engineer and elementalist have more buttons to press, but that does not come anywhere close to representing the actual skill required to play the professions, and yet this is something all engineer/ele players bring up because their bias leads them to think otherwise.

until incendiary powder, turrets, and crate are nerfed on engineer the profession will continue to be one of the easiest professions in PvP without a doubt.

the same can be said about elementalist and vast amount of things wrong with it’s d/d weaponskills and water traitline traits.

I think the complaints against the meta can be summed up pretty simply: there’s not enough build and role diversity at top tier. The more roles are viable, the bigger of a player base you attract since different people naturally just enjoy playing different builds. The fan base can also be wider, since people will root for the role that they like to watch/play. A lot of spectators get excited over the carries, since they often make the swingiest plays, but others do root for the support or the bruisers. You could also argue that the game becomes more interesting to watch since each player has a more refined role, and the educated spectators will want to see how well each person on their favorite team is performing at that role, rather than watching everyone all performing similar roles.

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles. Personally, I only played this game above others because a diversity of builds was not only viable but desirable, and the role I most enjoyed was tank/support. If that stops being a viable option, there’s no need for me to continue playing.

By the way, none of this really diminishes the accomplishments of your team or makes them illegitimate. The five of you are, for sure, some of the best players to play the game, both past and present. Not a single player on the team has a major weakness as a player, you all work well together, and certainly deserve being the best team in the game at the moment. Good players will naturally gravitate towards the best builds, and there isn’t anything wrong about doing that. No need to defend yourselves so adamantly, just enjoy the spotlight and ignore the haters! Best of luck in future tournaments.

cymerdown.4103:

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles.

Dunno.

I see more than 5 builds used between Cheese Mode, TCG, 55HP, The Abjured, and Dodge or Die, formerly the Absurd.

• D/P Thief (DoD, Occasionally CM)
• S/D Thief (TCG, Abjured, 55HP)
• Rifle Engi (CM, Abjured, 55HP, Occasionally TCG)
• Rabid Engi (DoD, Occasionally TCG)
• D/D Ele
• Staff Ele (55HP, but highly questionable.)
• Shoutbow War (DoD, TCG)
• Hambow War (Occasionally CM)
• Condi Necro (Abjured, occasionally TCG)
• Hammer/Scepter Medi Guard (CM, occasionally TCG)
• AH Bunker Guard (TCG, 55HP)
• Shatter Mesmer (55hp, TCG)

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles.

Dunno.

I see more than 5 builds used between Cheese Mode, TCG, 55HP, The Abjured, and Dodge or Die, formerly the Absurd.

• D/P Thief (DoD, Occasionally CM)
• S/D Thief (TCG, Abjured, 55HP)
• Rifle Engi (CM, Abjured, 55HP, Occasionally TCG)
• Rabid Engi (DoD, Occasionally TCG)
• D/D Ele
• Staff Ele (55HP, but highly questionable.)
• Shoutbow War (DoD, TCG)
• Hambow War (Occasionally CM)
• Condi Necro (Abjured, occasionally TCG)
• Hammer/Scepter Medi Guard (CM, occasionally TCG)
• AH Bunker Guard (TCG, 55HP)
• Shatter Mesmer (55hp, TCG)

Sure, people play a lot of things. I’d argue that many of those aren’t optimal, though.

cymerdown.4103:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles.

Dunno.

I see more than 5 builds used between Cheese Mode, TCG, 55HP, The Abjured, and Dodge or Die, formerly the Absurd.

• D/P Thief (DoD, Occasionally CM)
• S/D Thief (TCG, Abjured, 55HP)
• Rifle Engi (CM, Abjured, 55HP, Occasionally TCG)
• Rabid Engi (DoD, Occasionally TCG)
• D/D Ele
• Staff Ele (55HP, but highly questionable.)
• Shoutbow War (DoD, TCG)
• Hambow War (Occasionally CM)
• Condi Necro (Abjured, occasionally TCG)
• Hammer/Scepter Medi Guard (CM, occasionally TCG)
• AH Bunker Guard (TCG, 55HP)
• Shatter Mesmer (55hp, TCG)

Sure, people play a lot of things. I’d argue that many of those aren’t optimal, though.

The sad thing is that the top teams on EU or NA run Ranger approximately never

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles.

Dunno.

I see more than 5 builds used between Cheese Mode, TCG, 55HP, The Abjured, and Dodge or Die, formerly the Absurd.

• D/P Thief (DoD, Occasionally CM)
• S/D Thief (TCG, Abjured, 55HP)
• Rifle Engi (CM, Abjured, 55HP, Occasionally TCG)
• Rabid Engi (DoD, Occasionally TCG)
• D/D Ele
• Staff Ele (55HP, but highly questionable.)
• Shoutbow War (DoD, TCG)
• Hambow War (Occasionally CM)
• Condi Necro (Abjured, occasionally TCG)
• Hammer/Scepter Medi Guard (CM, occasionally TCG)
• AH Bunker Guard (TCG, 55HP)
• Shatter Mesmer (55hp, TCG)

Sure, people play a lot of things. I’d argue that many of those aren’t optimal, though.

The sad thing is that the top teams on EU or NA run Ranger approximately never

Bring back the old spirit ranger, Kappa

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles.

Dunno.

I see more than 5 builds used between Cheese Mode, TCG, 55HP, The Abjured, and Dodge or Die, formerly the Absurd.

• D/P Thief (DoD, Occasionally CM)
• S/D Thief (TCG, Abjured, 55HP)
• Rifle Engi (CM, Abjured, 55HP, Occasionally TCG)
• Rabid Engi (DoD, Occasionally TCG)
• D/D Ele
• Staff Ele (55HP, but highly questionable.)
• Shoutbow War (DoD, TCG)
• Hambow War (Occasionally CM)
• Condi Necro (Abjured, occasionally TCG)
• Hammer/Scepter Medi Guard (CM, occasionally TCG)
• AH Bunker Guard (TCG, 55HP)
• Shatter Mesmer (55hp, TCG)

Sure, people play a lot of things. I’d argue that many of those aren’t optimal, though.

The sad thing is that the top teams on EU or NA run Ranger approximately never

Only because Genyen retired I guess at a certain point you just become old and washed up… not looking forward to that

Dustin.2793:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles.

Dunno.

I see more than 5 builds used between Cheese Mode, TCG, 55HP, The Abjured, and Dodge or Die, formerly the Absurd.

• D/P Thief (DoD, Occasionally CM)
• S/D Thief (TCG, Abjured, 55HP)
• Rifle Engi (CM, Abjured, 55HP, Occasionally TCG)
• Rabid Engi (DoD, Occasionally TCG)
• D/D Ele
• Staff Ele (55HP, but highly questionable.)
• Shoutbow War (DoD, TCG)
• Hambow War (Occasionally CM)
• Condi Necro (Abjured, occasionally TCG)
• Hammer/Scepter Medi Guard (CM, occasionally TCG)
• AH Bunker Guard (TCG, 55HP)
• Shatter Mesmer (55hp, TCG)

Sure, people play a lot of things. I’d argue that many of those aren’t optimal, though.

The sad thing is that the top teams on EU or NA run Ranger approximately never

Bring back the old spirit ranger, Kappa

No thx. Rather have this meta. Right now, even evade spam thief takes more skill than Ranger as a class in general.

If nerfing celestial will bring Ranger back to the meta, then I’d rather not have celestial nerfed if that’s the case. Though I might be missing something here.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to make such elaborate snarky comments…

cymerdown.4103:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

As for gw2 currently, you can play a melee tanky dps, a ranged tanky dps, or thief (debatable if thief is really better than either of the first two) — you’ve got about 5 builds to choose from and 3 roles.

Dunno.

I see more than 5 builds used between Cheese Mode, TCG, 55HP, The Abjured, and Dodge or Die, formerly the Absurd.

• D/P Thief (DoD, Occasionally CM)
• S/D Thief (TCG, Abjured, 55HP)
• Rifle Engi (CM, Abjured, 55HP, Occasionally TCG)
• Rabid Engi (DoD, Occasionally TCG)
• D/D Ele
• Staff Ele (55HP, but highly questionable.)
• Shoutbow War (DoD, TCG)
• Hambow War (Occasionally CM)
• Condi Necro (Abjured, occasionally TCG)
• Hammer/Scepter Medi Guard (CM, occasionally TCG)
• AH Bunker Guard (TCG, 55HP)
• Shatter Mesmer (55hp, TCG)

Sure, people play a lot of things. I’d argue that many of those aren’t optimal, though.

The sad thing is that the top teams on EU or NA run Ranger approximately never

Only because Genyen retired I guess at a certain point you just become old and washed up… not looking forward to that

Old and washed up…that’s a sobering thought. In other words, ten years or so from now we’ll all be in such different scenarios and regret spending so much time into a….virtual world. Or why we even cared about certain things that we are obsessed with right now.

so, maybe I should rename this guild wars 2 drama?

@chaith commenting on the hammer;sc/f guards in EU

medi guard is strong vs mes/thief comps but completely horrible vs celestial comps. you will only see it in EU until a full celestial team pops up and destroys him.
hammer and scepter aren’t even the most viable weapons vs a mesmer/thief anyway.. medi is just that strong against it.

Booms.2594:

@chaith commenting on the hammer;sc/f guards in EU

medi guard is strong vs mes/thief comps but completely horrible vs celestial comps. you will only see it in EU until a full celestial team pops up and destroys him.
hammer and scepter aren’t even the most viable weapons vs a mesmer/thief anyway.. medi is just that strong against it.

+1

Firebird.8324:

Accurate, I agree.

Firebird.8324:

Almost forgot to quote you, YOU GOT THE WHOLE POINT OF THE FLOW CHART, TY

Firebird.8324:

You sir make an excellent point.

Firebird.8324:

You have a very good point, the one issue is necromancer is regarded as one of the very slowest classes in the game, while thief, is typically the +1 er because of mobility.

Firebird.8324:

True Words

Firebird.8324:

+1

Firebird.8324:

WHAT?! other people think that too?

Firebird.8324:

Vain, your post says it all.

Firebird.8324:

You put into words the thoughts of many, nice Post.

Firebird.8324:

I hear ya there.

Firebird.8324:

+1

Firebird.8324:

+1

Firebird I think you’re a sophisticated man of good taste and honor, can I get in on this too?

Aeroxe, I highly doubt any of these troll comments are serious. But it is a decent way to keep interest in this thread.

This whole Celestial debacle is entirely created by arena nets balancing designs from 2.5 years ago. There is no fix, we are still in the domino effect from them nerfing (mobility [things like Lf, Rtl, ect) and burst. They can’t target ele’s or Cele cause they will go back to being a lootbag. They can’t target the real problem (burst healing, healing over time) cause they added a bunch of crap to other classes + ele. (multiple cond procs, passive immunities, random procs, ect)

Ele vs s/d thieve at launch was a 50/50 fight. (they used to be my favorite class to duel) They will never get that split again sadly.

So sit back and enjoy the ride, Whatever they decide to change should be hilarious.

-Signed the greatest road warrior ejecta.