Guild Wars 2

Seriously, really, really easy. I mean it’s super easy for me to distinguish between a good, and an new/bad/average/poor Mesmer which 99% of the latter Mesmers I’ve seen post patch are. I know what you’re thinking though: “Of course fighting bad mesmers is easy when you’re using the Mesmer class to counter with, duh!” Seriously though, I can use a killshot war which is a mechanical nightmare in a vs mesmer matchup and still outplay these guys.

So if I can do it, why can’t you?

Lo

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

THey’re all usually running mantra shatter right now , it’s way better than PU .. Insane survive, insane dmg and good utility .. You have everything pretty much. Everyone’s running it way more than PU because it’s broken.

blitzkrieg.2451:

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

THey’re all usually running mantra shatter right now , it’s way better than PU .. Insane survive, insane dmg and good utility .. You have everything pretty much. Everyone’s running it way more than PU because it’s broken.

Mantra shatter does have good sustain, however it is much easier to lock down than PU and requires a bit more skill to do well with. PU requires…. nothing.

Yea well in pvp attleast PU provides next to no team help as it’s catered towards invis to survive where as in team fights you’ll spend most of your time invis rotating which means you won’t attack anybody and can’t take points with invis so it’s rather useless as you can have good defense with mantra too and better team support also anyone can lock you down hitting mantra into a burst combo, it’s really simple even with good players. This is why most people in PvP atleast are running this, in 1on1 dueling arenas you’ll see pu or WvW but not as much as in pvp.

I’ve never understood the point of anecdotal “call out” threads.

Being able to kill a bad player on any class, and a class needing design tweaks are horses of two different colors.

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

Might want to adjust your signature then. Since your main build consists of the “garbage” PU trait. Lol’d.

Lettuce.2945:

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

Might want to adjust your signature then. Since your main build consists of the “garbage” PU trait. Lol’d.

You’re going to try to peg him on a post for a build he last updated a year ago?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Lettuce.2945:

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

Might want to adjust your signature then. Since your main build consists of the “garbage” PU trait. Lol’d.

You’re going to try to peg him on a post for a build he last updated a year ago?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

You mean to say that PU wasn’t cheese a year ago as well?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

Velimere.7685:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Lettuce.2945:

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

Might want to adjust your signature then. Since your main build consists of the “garbage” PU trait. Lol’d.

You’re going to try to peg him on a post for a build he last updated a year ago?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

You mean to say that PU wasn’t cheese a year ago as well?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

cheese = cheap

I ran 4/4/0/0/6 on my Mesmer for ranked pvp pre-patch
I ran PU Mesmer to troll people in WvW, hotjoin and occasionally in ranked pvp when I’m in a pre-made going against solo queuers.

Yes there is a disparity between FOTM mesmers and “good” ones.

I beat FOTM mesmers just as easily as “good” ones beat me.

In time, a small number of FOTM mesmers may turn out to be “good” ones.

Mesmering is not my main and I’m average at best but it’s the class I choose when I want fast, exciting gameplay.

If you want to talk to the man about his post in this thread then talk just about what he had posted in the this thread but not random thing about him.

This is such a coward action to attack people.

Siva Mira.3546:

If you want to talk to the man about his post in this thread then talk just about what he had posted in the this thread but not random thing about him.

This is such a coward action to attack people.

jportell != rossbiddle.

Siva Mira.3546:

If you want to talk to the man about his post in this thread then talk just about what he had posted in the this thread but not random thing about him.

This is such a coward action to attack people.

Never fear! It’s been a pretty good thread so far ;D I don’t think anyone’s made a personal slight against me.

Everybody should find fighting their main easy. Expecially if their FOTM.

Velimere.7685:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Lettuce.2945:

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

Might want to adjust your signature then. Since your main build consists of the “garbage” PU trait. Lol’d.

You’re going to try to peg him on a post for a build he last updated a year ago?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

You mean to say that PU wasn’t cheese a year ago as well?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

PU wasnt cheese because you could counter it in three simple ways: outlasting their stealth, lockdown and burst. It was less straigh forward to kill, that its a problem to basically all low skill pvpers /wvwer have, hence the insane quantity of complains about stealth in the game.

Now the stealth its way too much, it allow the mesmer to setup and heal without problems, agregate that to the actual damage situation and that make PU carry a lt of new/failed mesmers. You can kill it with skill level difference, but his having advantage with the build and probably it had surprised a lot of people the first fight after the patch -.- .

Ross Biddle.2367:

Velimere.7685:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Lettuce.2945:

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

Might want to adjust your signature then. Since your main build consists of the “garbage” PU trait. Lol’d.

You’re going to try to peg him on a post for a build he last updated a year ago?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

You mean to say that PU wasn’t cheese a year ago as well?

I suppose that’s about par for the course for an MMO forum.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

cheese = cheap

Man I’ve been looking for that post for years and years now. I think that post or something almost identical came out at least 10 years ago and it still holds true.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

That should be posted on the front page of every game that needs regular balance updates.

Ross Biddle.2367:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

cheese = cheap

That paragraph doesn’t make any sense, unless you are working on the basis that the game is perfectly balanced and everything requires equal amounts of skill, as of yet I have never played an MMO that even comes close to that, so there are indeed many things that are low skilled / poorly balanced / forgiving (cheese/cheap), which is part of the reason video games have such a laughable skill cap compared to things like sport or chess, that take real skill, and have real balance, the author is apparently some sort of scrub not to have worked this out, or maybe he is just thick.

zinkz.7045:

Ross Biddle.2367:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

cheese = cheap

That paragraph doesn’t make any sense, unless you are working on the basis that the game is perfectly balanced and everything requires equal amounts of skill, as of yet I have never played an MMO that even comes close to that, so they are indeed many things that are low skilled / poorly balanced / forgiving (cheese/cheap), which is part of the reason video games have such a laughable skill cap compared to things like sport or chess, that take real skill, and have real balance, the author is apparently some sort of scrub not to have worked this out, or maybe he is just thick.

You’re missing the point. Players are incredibly quick to label something as low-skill cheese, but all that does is give them an excuse to lose. What other purpose does it serve? To call something out as imbalanced? In that regard it’s useless, because it provides no description as to why it is unbalanced, nor does it provide any ideas as how to not make it unbalanced.

So at the end of the day, it’s an excuse word designed to make players feel better about losing to something. Sometimes the “cheese” is actually unbalanced and could use a tweak. Sometimes the player just couldn’t be bothered to try to figure out how to beat it, nor could they be bothered to consider that, perhaps that build is designed to beat theirs if played very well.

One of the purposes of the article is to show that truly great players of a game won’t get mired in their emotional muck when playing/learning. The second you label something as “cheesey”, you no longer approach it with the conviction you otherwise might to beat it. You stunt your own growth because you think that you’re doing something more difficult, and therefore you should win. But the other guy wins because he’s using some cheese-easy strat, and it’s suddenly the game’s fault.

Was it cheesey for a team to play Manute Bol (see: https://i.imgur.com/ZzsWQ.jpg) as a center in basketball? He’s so much taller than everyone else, he has a much easier time, and people have to specifically try a lot harder to play around him given his natural talents.

PU is naturally gifted at something, but does that make it cheesey? Not necessarily. The only issue I had with PU a long while back was that it provided block every single time the Mesmer was back out of stealth, and I call that an “issue” it made fighting it as a Powermancer that much more difficult. But that doesn’t mean that just because I have a difficult time against it that it’s “cheesey”.

I do find it amusing how you think coordination with a physical ball is “real skill”, but coordination with a mouse and keyboard is… I don’t know what you’d call it. Fake skill.

Cogbyrn.7283:

zinkz.7045:

Ross Biddle.2367:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

cheese = cheap

That paragraph doesn’t make any sense, unless you are working on the basis that the game is perfectly balanced and everything requires equal amounts of skill, as of yet I have never played an MMO that even comes close to that, so they are indeed many things that are low skilled / poorly balanced / forgiving (cheese/cheap), which is part of the reason video games have such a laughable skill cap compared to things like sport or chess, that take real skill, and have real balance, the author is apparently some sort of scrub not to have worked this out, or maybe he is just thick.

You’re missing the point. Players are incredibly quick to label something as low-skill cheese, but all that does is give them an excuse to lose. What other purpose does it serve? To call something out as imbalanced? In that regard it’s useless, because it provides no description as to why it is unbalanced, nor does it provide any ideas as how to not make it unbalanced.

So at the end of the day, it’s an excuse word designed to make players feel better about losing to something. Sometimes the “cheese” is actually unbalanced and could use a tweak. Sometimes the player just couldn’t be bothered to try to figure out how to beat it, nor could they be bothered to consider that, perhaps that build is designed to beat theirs if played very well.

He doesn’t have a point, for him to have a point the game would have to be perfectly balanced and everything require equal amounts of skill, the vast majority of video games come nowhere near that, and MMORPGs certainly don’t, just because something is in the game does not mean it is well designed, balanced, etc, so I see no problem with players pointing that out.

Cogbyrn.7283:

One of the purposes of the article is to show that truly great players of a game won’t get mired in their emotional muck when playing/learning. The second you label something as “cheesey”, you no longer approach it with the conviction you otherwise might to beat it. You stunt your own growth because you think that you’re doing something more difficult, and therefore you should win. But the other guy wins because he’s using some cheese-easy strat, and it’s suddenly the game’s fault.

There are no truly great players of video games, skill cap is too low, as for stunting your growth nonsense, if you are too weak minded to be able to accurately evaluate things that are poorly balanced without affecting your own performance, that is your failing, not everyone is that limited.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I do find it amusing how you think coordination with a physical ball is “real skill”, but coordination with a mouse and keyboard is… I don’t know what you’d call it. Fake skill.

No I think tennis for example is real skill, because firstly the skill cap is a zillion times higher than a video game, and secondly because it is a mirror matchup, it is all down to the player, rather than the imbalances that are created in most video games by differences in skills/traits, etc.

You know a few weeks ago, the F1 team that have won something like 4 out of the last 5 championships were complaining about the performance of the engine their manufacturer has come up with this season and how a large part of their struggles this season is down to that, but I guess they shouldn’t say that, because some big time winner with a website says so. /sarcasm

zinkz.7045:

Ross Biddle.2367:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

cheese = cheap

That paragraph doesn’t make any sense, unless you are working on the basis that the game is perfectly balanced and everything requires equal amounts of skill, as of yet I have never played an MMO that even comes close to that, so there are indeed many things that are low skilled / poorly balanced / forgiving (cheese/cheap), which is part of the reason video games have such a laughable skill cap compared to things like sport or chess, that take real skill, and have real balance, the author is apparently some sort of scrub not to have worked this out, or maybe he is just thick.

You really don’t understand that article? One of the most famous pieces ever written on video game balance and whining and you don’t understand it?

The article is not claiming that any game has ever had perfect balance. In fact if you actually understood what it said you would realize that the article is saying perfect balance is a myth and illusion. Good players adapt and play. Bad players whine and cry. The balance of any moba or mmo is constantly changing. If meta’s never changed people get bored.

Good players adapt. Bad players whine.

Can you understand it now that I broke it down into a single sentence?

Because we’re not MLG leet pro like you, OP. We thought that would be obvious to someone of such a superior intellect

Yes OP I agree so much! Yesterday I was playing staff/GS mantra shatter mes against a sword/t/GS mes with PU that tried to predictably burst me out of stealth. Well somehow it didn’t go very well for him since I was able to recharge mantras during that fight and burst him down rather easily. But yeah, stealth bursts have gotten so predicatable that I need not fear them anymore.

Godmoney.2048:

Good players adapt. Bad players whine.

So true. . .

Good players generally see whatever is in front of them as a problem to be solved/challenge to rise to. Bad players are defeated before the fight has begun and will instead whine to massage their egos.

yeah people will whine because now they cant spam their easy combos all the time, because yeah mes interrupts them or actually can counter a thief now. everyone wants the mesmers to be nerfed to the ground again, because they enjoyed perma stun and heartseeker and rapid fire and decap engi and and and and us to death. they dont like changing and thats why the cry for nerfs. I hope anet doesnt destroy the class again because of 1v1 spvp hotjoin whiners. Just FYI Anet: mesmers are FINALLY more than just a stupid lame veilbot in wvw. so when u balance, could u please consider other gamemodes too?just for once?

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

^

Mesmer is faceroll, will always be due to the broken mechanics

jportell.2197:

StickerHappy.8052:

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Prismatic Understanding. I guarantee if this trait gets nerfed or adjusted in someway the FOTM mesmers will disappear. All of these “super good pro mesmers” are running this garbage trait and getting carried by it.

PU is very strong indeed and 1v1’ing a Mes with PU becomes basically a build-war:

If you run good AoE-cleave and Condi-DMG, like a D/D-Ele, Necro, Engi, Trapper, you’re fine, if not, you’re probably gonna loose.

I really like the long duration on the Elite though, since it makes it at least somewhat possible not to run a D/P-thief in a teamcomp, because stealth with long durations is sooo kitten important.

I actually think they should keep the durations long, maybe even buff them on the elite, but change the elite to: If you take dmg, you are revealed.

Also, many hotjoiners don’t run a portal, which is almost never the case in organized teams; so in hotjoin, they get both the daze-mantra and the additional cloak-utility, which makes them much stronger in 1v1’s in hotjoins.

Easy fix for all the mesmer-problems are IMHO:

Mass Invis: Duration increased to 8 seconds, (16 with PU), added: If you take any dmg (even ticking conditions), you are revealed.

Confounding Suggestions; Only Stuns when you interrupt a spell. (no easy guaranteed stuns anymore, which is the biggest problem of the burst from the mesmer)

1st No actual examples or scenario as to how you easily fight all the Mesmers.
2nd no video proof (This is optional if you have valid examples to support your argument in the first place)

Credibility: 0/100.

Next please.

Godmoney.2048:

Good players adapt. Bad players whine.

This right here. This is what this patch is all about. Every post about nerfing x,y,z is from bad players who don’t know how to adapt and just smash buttons with their tongue.

Godmoney.2048:

Good players adapt. Bad players whine.

Your comment indirectly reminds of someone who believed that nothing can be UP or OP “It’s just plays differently” is what he used to say quite a funny guy.

A lot of people here are blowing hot air about PU without really knowing how it plays out. I usually play a PU Mes, and in sPvP you don’t get as much stealth up time as people think by looking at the raw values.

I recently starting playing without PU and haven’t noticed much of a difference, why? Simply because when you attack you break stealth. I’ve found that if you are in fight as a Mes you want to constantly apply as much pressure as possible without pause, which means you can’t really take a stealth break in the middle to recover, as your opponent can do the same. This culminates in being in stealth about half the time now allowed by PU, which is effectively the same as not running PU at all.

Throw reveal into the mix and PU it isn’t as good as people think it is. Sure it is good for running away, but so is blink, or another other classes’ traits for evasion. Another factor to consider, is power PU builds are a squishy as hell, and your only real defense is stealth and the boons from it, but more importantly your own rotations and reflexes.

With the new specs Mes has more burst now, but you still have to set up clones/phants for a decent shatter, which in no way approaches the easier burst what a thief can apply with a one skill 10K backstab or heartseeker, or the 3-4K per hit a Guard can do. I think the Mes rage stems simply because people find the class annoying to fight because it can have illusions and stealth. Though probably less annoying than a ranger who finds a safe perch from which to burst people down at max range when most of your skills are on cd.

For those that haven’t played a Mes I would describe most builds as traditional glass cannon with all the strengths and weaknesses that entails. Unlike some classes that don’t have to sacrifice defense/sustain for damage and get the best of both worlds for example Guard, Ele, Necro, and possibly Engi.

zinkz.7045:

No I think tennis for example is real skill, because firstly the skill cap is a zillion times higher than a video game, and secondly because it is a mirror matchup, it is all down to the player, rather than the imbalances that are created in most video games by differences in skills/traits, etc.

Though I see your point, I disagree here. Genetic advantages do happen in real life for certain sports. (Basketball =Taller, Swimming/Boxing= Longer Torsos, Running = Longer legs etc..)

This means it is never a mirror matchup as genetics are always different, and this is assuming everyone has the chance at the same exact upbringing.

I can see video games having a much lower skill cap though. Interestingly, Nature has had many years to balance us, and as shown by the genetic traits/advantages for certain activities above, some things still need a nerf.

phokus.8934:

Godmoney.2048:

Good players adapt. Bad players whine.

This right here. This is what this patch is all about. Every post about nerfing x,y,z is from bad players who don’t know how to adapt and just smash buttons with their tongue.

No. “Good players” adapt the most abusive and broken traits/classes to exploit so they can stay “good”, while “bad players” cry for balance and let Anet hear their wrath and makes the balance comes true.

Aomine.5012:

phokus.8934:

Godmoney.2048:

Good players adapt. Bad players whine.

This right here. This is what this patch is all about. Every post about nerfing x,y,z is from bad players who don’t know how to adapt and just smash buttons with their tongue.

No. “Good players” adapt the most abusive and broken traits/classes to exploit so they can stay “good”, while “bad players” cry for balance and let Anet hear their wrath and makes the balance comes true.

Considering how players have been whining on the forums since the game released, I don’t think these “bad players” are doing a very good job of making the balance come true.

If someone in Chess chooses to use a weak opener that sacrifices position, while their opponent uses a typical, well-known strong opener, is it valid for the player who chose to be in a weaker position to claim the other is being carried by his opener?

If winning is so important to you, why would you create an arbitrary code of honor around what is “cheese” and what is “skill”? Find what wins and win.

If a Mesmer runs PU, there is no telling when they can burst and when they do, you will lose 75% or more of your hp before you can even react. If PU and Mesmer burst damage is nerfed, many FOTM mesmers will disappear.

it is supersimple…when a class, any class can dishout superdamage like the mesmer can spam pretty much…we need better animations…..here it come; the mesmer stealths and then bursts….meaning the mesmer animation can’t be read….meaning the mesmer damage needs to toned down tremendously. Imo with all the utilities the mesmer has it should be the number ONE class that can’t kill any other class solo for the disengage as well as engage and team buffs portals it provides along with all the clones etc etc.

Gw2 is about teamplay yet this class can provide the best teamsupport bursts and atm kills evryone solo….atm I think GW2 is extremely balanced except mesmer….if we can’t read the burst….then mesmer should have the hardcore weakest burst of all (thief is different for it needs to backstab and be upclose) mesmer has to much of everything and the ranged burst need to be toned down by 50% why 50%? i seen healthbars over 17k drop to 0 from a single mesmer burst….eviscerate fully traited should do much more yet it doesn’t. taking into account how easy it is for mesmer to burst….7-8k damage tops would be fair….not 16+k. for many people 50% sounds like wooow omg so much..but let’s be honest….spammable range 1200 16k damage aoe bursts with clones and stealth etc is far from balanced and the but mesmer is squishy excuse isnt legit either anymore cause in this patch all zerker specs are squishy….even warriors die near insta and they have no stealth’s or teleports whatsoever…the we are squishy excuse no longer counts anymore…damage dealing (non condi) specs are all ultra squishy. I want the mesmer to saty unique with it’s options…i think we should however be fair and say that mesmer with so many and such unique skills….should be hardcore bottomtier when it comes to damage….no mesmer hate or anything, I actually think that’s basic logic….ps 7k bursts can still kill players when you outplay them instead of going stealth and 1-burst everyone….1-10 seconds is a big gap to time your random dodge to evade the stealthburst… that’s not outplaying anyone….that’s pure cheese!!! yeap 50% and not a percentage less, 8k spammable range 1200 bursts with so much diversion teleports stealth’s dazes and what not…is actually being extremely generous…now its 16+k full 50% nerf no joke.

Also, mass invisibilty needs to be like this: you gain 5 seconds of stealth and +1 for each affected ally (clones etc not included) up to a max of 10 seconds affected allies will gain the amount the mesmer casting it gains and the 10 player limit get’s to stay ofc….much more intresting to use the skill since the cd had shortened by 18 seconds alrdy (prepatch 90 sec)cause tbh….stealth is gamebreaking on mesmer

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’ve never understood the point of anecdotal “call out” threads.

Being able to kill a bad player on any class, and a class needing design tweaks are horses of two different colors.

Whenever someone finds some build that they deem to work too well, instead being honest and go “Well, to be honest, this could be toned down a bit and would still work pretty well”, they go “Hey! This is perfectly fine! I just took down this bunker guy in 2s solo even though the guy was under protection, and I was under weakness, got blindness spammen on me every 2 seconds, and the guy blocked and dodged half of my a attacks! Yep! Perfectly fine! No problems here! Move along! nothing to see here, people!”

Ross Biddle.2367:

Seriously, really, really easy. I mean it’s super easy for me to distinguish between a good, and an new/bad/average/poor Mesmer which 99% of the latter Mesmers I’ve seen post patch are. I know what you’re thinking though: “Of course fighting bad mesmers is easy when you’re using the Mesmer class to counter with, duh!” Seriously though, I can use a killshot war which is a mechanical nightmare in a vs mesmer matchup and still outplay these guys.

So if I can do it, why can’t you?

Lo

as someone who mains mes u know what to do, others dont.

Either way once to class is brought to balance everything will be restored, just enjoy your OP stage

Ross Biddle.2367:

Seriously, really, really easy. I mean it’s super easy for me to distinguish between a good, and an new/bad/average/poor Mesmer which 99% of the latter Mesmers I’ve seen post patch are. I know what you’re thinking though: “Of course fighting bad mesmers is easy when you’re using the Mesmer class to counter with, duh!” Seriously though, I can use a killshot war which is a mechanical nightmare in a vs mesmer matchup and still outplay these guys.

So if I can do it, why can’t you?

Lo

As a Warrior, you’ve got Stability and endure pain. As a Mesmer, you have the same tools they do.

people seem to forget.

If ur playing a OP Class fighting a OP Class then the results are balanced as u are Both just as OP As the others,

some what the Poster is Saying

if we all reroll Mesmer the game shall be balanced, but dare step out of that thin line and Suffer OP to the face.

Dirame.8521:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Seriously, really, really easy. I mean it’s super easy for me to distinguish between a good, and an new/bad/average/poor Mesmer which 99% of the latter Mesmers I’ve seen post patch are. I know what you’re thinking though: “Of course fighting bad mesmers is easy when you’re using the Mesmer class to counter with, duh!” Seriously though, I can use a killshot war which is a mechanical nightmare in a vs mesmer matchup and still outplay these guys.

So if I can do it, why can’t you?

Lo

As a Warrior, you’ve got Stability and endure pain. As a Mesmer, you have the same tools they do.

yea, mesmer is….best ranged aoe bursts in game spammable, stealth, clones/phantasms etc, teleports, good health pool, that portal thing that is completely abusable in pvp or anywhere, invuln spam, dazes boon removal, it has everything other classes have + their own unique stuff

I dun get it…

If Mes is so brokenly OP and easy… How can I kill players with non mesmer professions, esp on toons I rarely use?

If they are bad shouldn’t it carry them if it’s easy? Wouldn’t I be dying because it’s so powerful?

Daishi.6027:

I dun get it…

If Mes is so brokenly OP and easy… How can I kill players with non mesmer professions, esp on toons I rarely use?

If they are bad shouldn’t it carry them if it’s easy? Wouldn’t I be dying because it’s so powerful?

I believe its a difference of perspectives, personalities, and how well you are doing relative to how well you think you should be doing (i.e. expectations).

Imo, PVP is about 90% skill with your class, experience, and knowing your enemy. The rest comes down to class matchups and builds. I believe this because its not hard to find players from every class that will consistently beat 9 out of 10 other random players they come across regardless of the class they are paired against.

If you PVP for the sake of the competition and because you find it enjoyable, then you don’t really care so much about class balance or losing for that matter. Thieves were considered a hard counter to mesmers before the patch but instead of complaining on the forums, this only fueled my competitive spirit and I would deliberately seek out good thieves so that I could pit myself against them. I didn’t like to lose but I valued the challenge and fun of going against someone better than me more.

If you feel you should be dominating "x"percentage of your opponents but instead are coming up short, you’re faced with two choices. Seek answers within your control or seek answers outside of your control. People who whine generally don’t understand the root cause of why they are frustrated or how they have the power to affect change. (Or they may realize it but are not interested/motivated enough to make the change.)

Dirame.8521:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Seriously, really, really easy. I mean it’s super easy for me to distinguish between a good, and an new/bad/average/poor Mesmer which 99% of the latter Mesmers I’ve seen post patch are. I know what you’re thinking though: “Of course fighting bad mesmers is easy when you’re using the Mesmer class to counter with, duh!” Seriously though, I can use a killshot war which is a mechanical nightmare in a vs mesmer matchup and still outplay these guys.

So if I can do it, why can’t you?

Lo

As a Warrior, you’ve got Stability and endure pain. As a Mesmer, you have the same tools they do.

I’m a super durp warrior at best, and given the only build I play, vs Mesmer I use the only advantage I’ve got which is superior landspeed, and single target ranged damage (rifle + kshot). Yes, I play ultimate killshot war.

Oh and in place of endure pain I just take dodge rolls.

For me one of the problems I see with all the cries for nerfs is that Anet haven’t even managed to get a handle on the things they posted saying “We know about this”.

Until they have made the sweeping changes to bring damage on all sources into line with how they want, complaining and asking for nerfs is just a bad idea. This is without pointing out that I’m pretty sure people have not managed to try out every build possible and every variation on all classes as ways to counter.

I for one see how little condi clear these fotm mesmers have and punish them for it. I can anticipate when they will stealth and make sure to immobilise or CC and burst in their faces. Depending on class I apply other control conditions. Sure I can’t see you but it doesn’t mean you’re safe, especially as the boons from PU got watered down after the initial nerf.

As with all things, patience is a virtue, which isn’t exclusive to guards.