Guild Wars 2

Either nerf phantasms damage or shatter damage, or remove some CC from them, the amount of knock downs daze and huge damage combined with stealth and a lot of ‘oh kitten’ skills they have is just too much. Not talking about 1v1 where you can predict and dodge it all but on a 2v2 3v3 or w/e while on a point where you cant see anything of whats going on you just get wrecked by this they dont even need to target you.

Learn to dodge and you will be fine. Having awareness in team fights is important. If you dont have it you are going to get burst.

Fighting mesmers is all about doding at the right time. (the sword three ability that sends a clone running at you super fast.).

If you dodge the shatters you can get the mesy. I play an engy, i beat maybe 85% of the mesmers i run into 1on1.
The ones i lose to are good mesy’s, and usually get me because i made a mistake.

@OP Chaos storm CD increased as well as Chaos armor… Long time ago… Phantasms can no longer be summoned on blind/block/invuln. Phantasms also get obstructed way more than any other skill in the game… GCD on shatters… And every patch introduces some form of new bug/nerf to mesmers intended or not.. Most recently the Greatsword phantasm hits once maybe twice for damage that even a GC wouldn’t notice… So there you go Mesmers Nerfed… If you still have issues… Let me get you the worlds smallest violin

iZerker was nerfed last week, GS has one knockdown, daze lasts 1 second. Move if you Don’t want the izerker to hit you.

It’s extreamly hard to hit anyone with the iZerker in PvP and WvW. Would you care to enlighten us as to all the great CC Mesmers have?

Oh I knew this post was coming after I destroyed you so hard in soloques

Ya because staff eles are the best ones to 1v1 right…

Anyways, suddenly fighting mesmers is all about a L2 kitten ue? But d/d eles is all about op op nerf nerf, i find it funny really.

How about buff your skill?

2 mesmers in top tier na. yeah mesmers most be op.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

2 mesmers in top tier na. yeah mesmers most be op.

Both of the top players in NA are mesmers???

Zing, NA!

As a main ranger and engineer, i have taken out mesmers with little work. Learning the real mesmer from clones are easy to detect.. The key to counter attack them is with range and dodging as already stated. Even their clones are easy to beat. As EaGrimdark stated, How about buff your skill? In wvw, pvp and spvp, i have seen all classes takinng them out, . Unlike having 2 theives on top of you while in stealth is a whole different matter. Any 2 classes fighting you, obviously has a greater advantage over you, but not impossible to beat.

whenever i feel like roflstomping people in spvp i jump on my mesmer and proceed to destroy faces at will. its just too easy. i feel bad for the newer players who cant even target me to get off one measly attack as i bury them in a mountain of dps. its definitely an unpleasant experience. to me the target scrambling together with stealth is the thing that puts mesmers over the top. everyone can dish out high dps cycles but being able to drop target and stealth as their pets continue to deal damage and the opponent has to spend 1-5+ seconds trying to find the target (effectively a daze) is a huge advantage, especially if its a group fight and you either have to sit there and tab 5 or 6 times or find your arrow in the chaos and click on a midget the size of a millimeter on your screen whos running around like a decapitated chicken.

Tellah.8073:

whenever i feel like roflstomping people in spvp i jump on my mesmer and proceed to destroy faces at will. its just too easy. i feel bad for the newer players who cant even target me to get off one measly attack as i bury them in a mountain of dps. its definitely an unpleasant experience. to me the target scrambling together with stealth is the thing that puts mesmers over the top. everyone can dish out high dps cycles but being able to drop target and stealth as their pets continue to deal damage and the opponent has to spend 1-5+ seconds trying to find the target (effectively a daze) is a huge advantage, especially if its a group fight and you either have to sit there and tab 5 or 6 times or find your arrow in the chaos and click on a midget the size of a millimeter on your screen whos running around like a decapitated chicken.

You must be playing against bad people. I roll most mesmers easily.

Can’t talk about other professions but from a warrior’s point of view, a monkey playing a mesmer could kill a decent warrior.

fighting against thieves and mesmers is like an entirely different game. any other class is pretty straight forward: you watch animations, position, count dodges and major CDs, and react accordingly. Mesmers and Thieves though turn this entirely on its head though for their own distinct reasons. Regarding the thief, you have to ‘predict’ in addition to react, and their leaps/ports can throw positioning out the window. Unless you’re a full bunker kitten there can be little to no room for errors depending on the skill of the thief. My biggest issue with mesmers though is not the stealth, it’s the virtual “attack with impunity” of shatter mesmers with their incessant chain of CC and burst from behind invul while all being on relatively low CDs.

Winning these fights is certainly doable, but unless you’re playing as either of these classes you definitely have to elevate your game to do so.

I just find it op that they can do so much damage without any risk at all. Both duelist and zerker do a lot of damage without the mesmer needing to anything at all(like 3-4k each), and a shatter combo (4x shatter) hits 2.2k each on a light armor target with soldier amulet, thats 8.8k damage instantly most of the time unlike 100blades which comes slowly even with quickness. Right you can dodge or use oh kitten utilities the first few but if we add on top of that you are dodging other enemies its pretty hard to stop, on top of that shatter hits aoe.

To fix phantasms all they have to do is fix signet of illusions and make it pulse application every second while fixing the amount of health that it actually gives instead of giving each phantasm more than 5-6k health.

Leuca, Phantasms having more than 5-6k health, show evidence? Phantasms are easy to kill in the first or second hit, even i as a mesmer don’t have that health pool and I don’t get killed in 1-2 hits. Obvious, you are making this up.
And hhary, i need your proof as well about zerkers hitting 3-4 damage each.
Why these false information?. As i had stated above, any class can counter mesmers. All my proof are on each class forums and its users posting them on Youtube. Only if you’re theif, you won’t need too because all it takes to be a theif is spamming 1-2 keys, by only using your main skills, easy kill. Only classes which can hit per 3-5k and more are theif and warrior.

all you have to do is dodge everything that hurts…

hharry.1967:

I just find it op that they can do so much damage without any risk at all. Both duelist and zerker do a lot of damage without the mesmer needing to anything at all(like 3-4k each), and a shatter combo (4x shatter) hits 2.2k each on a light armor target with soldier amulet, thats 8.8k damage instantly most of the time unlike 100blades which comes slowly even with quickness. Right you can dodge or use oh kitten utilities the first few but if we add on top of that you are dodging other enemies its pretty hard to stop, on top of that shatter hits aoe.

Duelist one evade can negate most of the damage… And as people have previously stated the berserker got bugged out in this most recent patch and is missing most of its attacks. Also if you want us to have different damage then make a suggestion to the devs on different skills we could have instead of the ones that are there instead of nerf nerf nerf… And 100blades does way more damage than any of our phantasms could ever achieve… Also we have already stated that mesmers have gotten nerfed several SEVERAL times since launch… So this has nothing to do with mesmers and everything to do with your ego…

Mesmers themselves are very weak and only used for their utility. aka illusion of life, portal, and time warp.

Ironically when I bunker I use none of those because I don’t need to because I am only on one node the entire fight kitten off guardians and BS thieves. :P (Okay so I do use timewarp)

hharry.1967:

Either nerf phantasms damage or shatter damage, or remove some CC from them, the amount of knock downs daze and huge damage combined with stealth and a lot of ‘oh kitten’ skills they have is just too much. Not talking about 1v1 where you can predict and dodge it all but on a 2v2 3v3 or w/e while on a point where you cant see anything of whats going on you just get wrecked by this they dont even need to target you.

I love when people combine the best aspects of three or four builds/utilities loadouts into one fantasy uber scary unstopable fiction.

I personally run a 20(V,X)/30(I,IV,X)/10(V)/10(VI)/0 build with GS, S/S blink/decoy/archaine thievery and runes of warrior for some extra health/power and -1 sec weapon swap and berserkers amulet.

I aim to be untouchable and allow people to destroy themselves by killing my clones while i put constant pressure on them from range with GS and when forced into meele blured frenzy+block and blink, decoy to get out of danger. I hardly ever even use shatters. I can be taken down by any class that is played skillfully and I can take down any class if i can outplay them.

The best way to kill me is to attack while im busy with someone else after ive blown my two stun breaks, at that point im a sitting duck.

I understand that my build is very non standard and not the flavor of the month “shattercat” or “immortal” build but I find it to be a lot of fun and Maybe because I dont have a loadout like people expect I gain an edge from the surprise factor.

Long story short; different builds have different strengths and its really rediculous to make blanket statements about mesmers being overpowered when you set up a characature posessing all the possible strengths from every possible build.

Everytime I play I always think, wow d/d ele bunker is overpowered. Its a consistant thing. I just never get that feeling about mesmers, or any other class.

Yasha.5963:

Everytime I play I always think, wow d/d ele bunker is overpowered. Its a consistant thing. I just never get that feeling about mesmers, or any other class.

s/d is worse imo

I think I found the problem…
When you summon a phantasm the cool down starts counting down as soon as you cast it. This is very annoying vs a phantasm mesmer because once you kill the phantasm you have another one to deal with thus not focusing your damage on the actual Mesmer. And if you did manage to kill the phantasm quick enough the mesmer will just stealth blink behind you and can summon another … The phantasm cool down should not start counting down until the phantasm is killed .. This is the way to nerf the mesmer while still being viable…

This is not something new I’m trying to implement . Look at the necro when he summons minions the cool down doesn’t start counting till the minion is dead. Same with ranger spirits.

Actually no… This would completely destroy how a mesmer operates… The phantasms have internal cooldowns and are usually killed right away… Because necro minions are skills and not weapon skills. No other weapon skills operate the way mesmers do and and causing them to cooldown when the phantasm is killed will destroy how a phantasm mesmer works especially if they rely on summoning them at the end of cooldowns… Ranger spirits and Minion necros are slot skills not weapon skills. This is where the basis for your argument is shaky… You are essentially comparing apples to oranges.

There’s phantasms that are skills

And it’s a suggestion not an argument

two! Defender and disenchanter… Once again messing with these would destroy how a phantasm mesmer works because if they survive as long as the cooldown states then that leaves a bunker mesmer unable to bunker… It’s like you are saying we should remove certain skills from bunker guardians… Its ridiculous… And i am not sure how a spirit ranger works but when a necro has a minion up they get a secondary effect on the skill bar (kinda like turret engis) and then they can use that and that is why there is a cooldown after the minion is killed also necro minions have way more HP than most phantasms. In a phantasm build the mesmers rarely destroy their illusions…

Edit: and your suggestion is still faulty even though its a suggestion.

I’d like to see you come up with another suggestion . And a bunker Mesmer doesn’t need phantasms constantly. One berserker and one duelist out damages all the minions summoned by a necro. You thinking this would destroy a Mesmer is wrong. They could still put clones up this wouldn’t effect the shatter Mesmer. Yea it would nerf the phantasm Mesmer but that is what needs a nerf.. The Damage and survivability is out right kitten

You got to be kidding me… A phantasm mesmer’s damage still doesn’t match a zerker warrior… and the toughness doesn’t match that of a zerker warrior either… And as far as survivability GC goes hmm Thiefs? yeah way better… Plus with a phantasm mesmer you don’t have to spend all your time worrying about which one is the real mesmer… This doesn’t need a nerf… Not in the least bit… And it will still affect other mesmers. Not everyone is a shatter nor a phantasm… Some of us run hybrids… And this would hurt us too.. No other suggestion is needed here. People are just sad that someone has a direct counter to their build… Bunkers will still destroy phantasm mesmers and GC’s have to dodge one or two bursts and are able to burn the phantasm mesmer down fast.

Also they destroyed the Greatsword phantasm this patch so you were saying?

Try using a soldiers amulet instead on serker on a phantasm Mesmer and tell me it’s not op you don’t need seekers amulet phantasms have fury trait does just that… And you of all people Jp should know how op mesmers are cus I watch you duel and shred people

You have also seen me get shredded too then because I lose a lot as well…. Not sure where you watch me duel. But if it’s in WvW there are way more things to take into account… I also play multiple classes and try to learn counters to them… Most of these people that gripe about mesmers refuse to try one out and look for weaknesses.

Also there was a patch where they introduced a pause between when the phantasm is summoned and when it begins its attack. It use to be immediate… So that plus animation should be of some help.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Learn to dodge and you will be fine. Having awareness in team fights is important. If you dont have it you are going to get burst.

Of course this guy would defend mesmers.

@OP I agree 100%. Mesmers are just ridiculously braindead to play and have too much utility / burst / conditions going for them.

The phantasms need to go. Delete that and they will be completely fine. (of course they would receive other abilities)

jportell.2197:

You got to be kidding me… A phantasm mesmer’s damage still doesn’t match a zerker warrior… and the toughness doesn’t match that of a zerker warrior either… And as far as survivability GC goes hmm Thiefs? yeah way better… Plus with a phantasm mesmer you don’t have to spend all your time worrying about which one is the real mesmer… This doesn’t need a nerf… Not in the least bit… And it will still affect other mesmers. Not everyone is a shatter nor a phantasm… Some of us run hybrids… And this would hurt us too.. No other suggestion is needed here. People are just sad that someone has a direct counter to their build… Bunkers will still destroy phantasm mesmers and GC’s have to dodge one or two bursts and are able to burn the phantasm mesmer down fast.

Also they destroyed the Greatsword phantasm this patch so you were saying?

It’s obvious that warriors are the most damaging class in the game, but raw damage doesn’t necessarily equal viability.

Ex:

Warriors
10/10 damage
2/10 utility
0/10 unpredictability
9.5/10 easy to counter

Mesmers
8.5/10 damage
8/10 utility
7/10 unpredictability
let’s put a 5/10 easy to counter here.

Which one is better in your opinion? Stop comparing classes like that. Mesmers need some toning down and you know it :P

Razor.6392:

jportell.2197:

You got to be kidding me… A phantasm mesmer’s damage still doesn’t match a zerker warrior… and the toughness doesn’t match that of a zerker warrior either… And as far as survivability GC goes hmm Thiefs? yeah way better… Plus with a phantasm mesmer you don’t have to spend all your time worrying about which one is the real mesmer… This doesn’t need a nerf… Not in the least bit… And it will still affect other mesmers. Not everyone is a shatter nor a phantasm… Some of us run hybrids… And this would hurt us too.. No other suggestion is needed here. People are just sad that someone has a direct counter to their build… Bunkers will still destroy phantasm mesmers and GC’s have to dodge one or two bursts and are able to burn the phantasm mesmer down fast.

Also they destroyed the Greatsword phantasm this patch so you were saying?

It’s obvious that warriors are the most damaging class in the game, but raw damage doesn’t necessarily equal viability.

Ex:

Warriors
100% damage
5% utility
0% unpredictability
95% easy to counter

Mesmers
85% damage
70% utility
70% unpredictability
let’s put a 50% easy to counter here.

Which one is better? Stop comparing classes like that. Mesmers need some toning down and you know it :P

Dude did you miss the post where I said they bugged out our greatsword beyond belief in this patch…. This is also coming from an ele (prolly bunker) that is THE MOST GRIPED ABOUT CLASS at the moment. Still… Even after the patch… Not to mention that the new map specifically caters to d/d eles is very very blatant… You are very biased… I have rarely if ever demanded a nerf to anything… I usually say something about how to handle ele’s in certain situations instead of an insane nerf… You guys are ridiculous at calling for the nerf bat… Plus the suggestion mentioned would destroy any mesmer build because our phantasms have already been nerfed with the not summon on blind/block/invuln add to that the fact that they have a very long cast time except for the torch and the warlock which both do bad damage because if you have enough conditions on you in PvP for the iWarlock to do anything then you are dead anyways and confusion is a joke in PvP so the 3 stacks from the torch phantasm is terrible as well and none of our phantasms inherent any stats like condition damage and duration plus they still go down insanely fast to any small amount of AOE and only bad players say mesmers are unpredictable. Mesmers are extremely predictable had a warrior last night tell me “I knew that was coming because I know that combo”… And most “Top tier” (still laugh at that) demand that the mesmers bring certain utilities and builds thereby diminishing the mesmer’s personal choice in the build making them not OP at all in 1v1 situations and only marginally close to d/d ele’s or bunker guards in group scenarios

And what other abilities would you suggest genius? Illusions are the entire basis for the mesmer class and phantasms have been nerfed into the ground already. So tell me without completely destroying mesmers what would you in all your superiority and know how put there that would still keep the base mechanic for mesmers there? Once again the damage in phantasms has been touched base cooldowns increased and they can’t be summoned on dodge/blind/block/invuln what more do you want? The mesmer to just sit there stand still and say “okay beat me to a pulp mr. D/D ele because I know you are soooo UP right now” Get over it.

I don’t play bunker, I play glass ele and those are not fotm or even close to OP. And about the phantasms they just need to be removed. Everytime you waste time killing them the mesmer is taking free shots at you, and by the time you destroy them, (the phantasms) have already used their first attack rotation.

Whether it is 1 or 4 seconds what you take in killing the phantasms, it is still a necessary thing to do (if you want to win), and that’s free time where the mesmer is free of agro in a 1v1 situation.

Now, this fact coupled with the ever-so-restless clones and the impending risk of being shattered / blurred frenzy to hell makes mesmer extremely unfun and annoying to face.

Oh and did I mention that while all of that is happening, while you’re busy fighting with the environment basically and keeping track of every move, the mesmer is autoattacking you or casting the rest of his kitten (gs 2 / knockback / chaos storm / time warp or moa).

Then you find an opening… nope, blink or decoy away or whatever other tricks they have for those panic moments.

Back to square one.

When facing other classes you gotta keep attention to maybe one mechanic at a time in order to not mess up. Mesmer takes much more effort to deal with, while having little to no weaknesses in terms of damage, utility and even mobility/escaping to some extent.

While it’s not impossible to deal with them, no profession should take that much amount of effort to not mess up against them, gotta keep all classes consistent, right?

You know all of this is right, but I’m waiting for a scapegoat or ad hominem reply.

What’s funny in duels is you watch same profession duels. For example, you get 2 mesmers fighting and you see that one is way more skilled than the other and always wins. Now same thing happens with 2 warriors. Now put the worse mesmer against the best warrior and the mesmer wins fairly easily. Professions really aren’t created equal in this game and people playing professions like mesmers cannot honestly think they are skilled when they kill anything that is not currently considered blatantly overpowered.

Razor I’m not sure what class you play but i can tell you this, you sound like a theif. As i already stated, any class can take out mesmers. Each class forums provide the remedy to counter mesmer. A thief, doesn’t need any format or tutorial for any kills. I am sure you are fully aware and have knowledge of what supporters against not nerfing mesmers are stating, perhaps you are trolling this thread?
No further discussion,

He’s an ele and a glass ele. And if you run GC you can expect to be taken out quick by anyone… If I run GC I go down quick which is why I run a hybrid… So now that a GC is griping about going down to a balanced build I see the problem… He was GC… You can’t expect to survive forever running that…. It’s just silly… Today in tournies I was playing against a bad Mesmer… he got the better of me in one match because I was already preoccupied with his warrior teammate but the next round I came up on him at altar and wiped the floor with him in about a minute… Now do you think he is saying “man I wish they would nerf mesmers” no he is prolly saying wow that guy plays Mesmer better than me… I got hit with more than my fair share of 100B tonight but do you think I was saying “ kitten 100B is OP they should nerf it” nope its man too bad I used my stunbreaks on his buddy… So yeah this is just a little ridiculous. A lot of people that play mesmers are good there are quite a few very terrible ones… One in my guild for instance we got matched against each other in Hot Joins she has a lvl 80 mes same as me… and she screamed in guild chat “I CANT KEEP TRACK OF JOHNNY!” Now she was pretty good at dealing with other mesmers… Do mesmers need nerfed because of mes on mes encounters? No then you can see how things work… Get some friends go to an empty server and watch the mesmers duel! Just watch from both ends… see what happens. And if its about team builds then seriously that’s just good team work.

As expected, you ignored my entire post and ranted about nonsense.

Again for every person that don’t know how to dodge a shatter:
Target the mesmer. Wait till the skill-icon “Illusionary Leap” is popping under the health-bar of the mesmer (icon: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Leap)
As soon as you see it you can dodge.

Basically every person that can’t dodge this shatter method is diying and posts threads about how op the mesmer is, without knowing his mechanics.
Best regards to the OP.

Razor.6392:

As expected, you ignored my entire post and ranted about nonsense.

Nonsense begets nonsense… You are still trying to destroy the basis for the class… It’s like saying eles are forced into one attunement and thats it… Or that warriors shouldn’t have the hardest hitting non elite skill in game (100B). Or that thieves can have 0 access to stealth no matter what… Engineers can’t have kits or turrets… You can keep on this all you want but it just shows me that you are bad at your class because several other people who don’t all play mesmers have said they have no issue with phantasms. Also phantasms and shatters are our ONLY source of DPS. Be happy that you have 20 whopping skills at your disposal where as the rest of us will have to settle for less. And only a couple phantasms do good damage and one of the only ones that did have been nerfed already and you have clearly ignored the fact that they have destroyed the greatsword phantasm this patch…

All I know is that you don’t have to dodge 20 different things at a time or have to fight NPCs while the enemy X class gets FREE shots at you.

Only mesmers are capable of that.

Phantasms could be replaced for something else. No one is saying that your skill kit will now consist of 4 abilities for each weapon lol. And to say that phantasms are a class defining ability… okay lol.

My problem aren’t the phantasms, it’s a sum of everything they do. But I believe that downright removing the phantasms would make them much easier to deal with without nerfing them to oblivion.

You have to be delusional if you don’t consider mesmer’s burst / utility too high for the average standard. No matter what I say you’re convinced that mesmers are balanced right now.

It only makes it better to picture your face when you read the upcoming nerfs that I’m sure will eventually come. Priceless.

Razor.6392:

All I know is that you don’t have to dodge 20 different things at a time or have to fight NPCs while the enemy X class gets FREE shots at you.

Only mesmers are capable of that.

Phantasms could be replaced for something else. No one is saying that your skill kit will now consist of 4 abilities for each weapon lol. And to say that phantasms are a class defining ability… okay lol.

My problem aren’t the phantasms, it’s a sum of everything they do. But I believe that downright removing the phantasms would make them much easier to deal with without nerfing them to oblivion.

You have to be delusional if you don’t consider their burst / utility too high for the average standard. No matter what I say you’re convinced that mesmers are balanced right now.

It only makes it better to picture your face when you read the upcoming nerfs that I’m sure will eventually come. Priceless.

So your suggestion on how to “Deal with something” is to remove it? Seriously that has to be a joke…And also the amount of work they would have to do would take longer than any team is willing to do… Once again phantasms have been nerfed already they haven’t been touched anymore as far as nerfs go because doing so would either pidgeon hole mesmers into nothing but shatters or b make the class so unpopular that no one plays it any more… I’m sorry you hate mesmers so much I really am. Sounds like they took your lunch money or something. But none of your suggestions are reasonable or plausible… Maybe they should bring the Mesmer from GW1. You know the class that could shut anyone out of any skill for the duration of a fight. Or maybe you need to tell the Mesmer on your team how much you hate them and they shouldn’t play with you anymore. Because you defend the hell out of D/D eles (way better off then mesmers in almost all cases) and I have yet to say they should be nerfed into the ground. Or better yet destroy everything here you want… Rebuff confusion in PvP that way we really can be the lock down class we were meant to be.

Edit: and for everyone else’s argument of starting the recharge when the phantasm is killed that keeps us from having multiple phantasms in a boss fight (which most teams love) and you are also ignoring the fact that every phantasm has had some form of cooldown increase since release and the attack rate has been decreased so we can summon them less often and they attack less often… And you whiners still aren’t happy.

jportell.2197:

Edit: and for everyone else’s argument of starting the recharge when the phantasm is killed that keeps us from having multiple phantasms in a boss fight (which most teams love) and you are also ignoring the fact that every phantasm has had some form of cooldown increase since release and the attack rate has been decreased so we can summon them less often and they attack less often… And you whiners still aren’t happy.

Yeah I remember when mesmers were scarey, now after several nerfs they aren’t so bad and I can generally kill them on most classes. The only OP build atm belongs to the elementalist class.

Let me clear out my last post: when I say "My problem aren’t the phantasms, it’s a sum of everything they do. "

they = mesmers.

Razor.6392:

I don’t play bunker, I play glass ele and those are not fotm or even close to OP. \

Yet here you are from this thread telling people to play PVT bunker ele’s.

Razor.6392:

pvt or bust if you go zerker even moas kill you

…So Im confused, then I came up with two scenerio’s..

You dont play bunker even though you know you die to everything and then complain..

Or your lieing to try and drive your false issue…

I guess two weeks ago we had a list:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List

Everyone voted Mesmer on place 2 or place 1. So they are strong. Are they overpowered? I do not know