Guild Wars 2

Will I be at a competitive disadvantage without HoT in sPvP?

I’m not buying it until it goes on sale again, but I don’t want to be kitten in sPvP by not having it.

MammerJammer.6174:

It can’t be that bad…

can it?

A build without Hot will have much lower damage and sustain than any elite spec one, and nothing can fight the CC they throw at you.

Yes, it’s like playing with no hands if you don’t have the expansion.

It can’t be that bad…

can it?

So is every class in PvP exclusively running elite specs?

There’s a few niche builds that don’t use HoT but yeah most of them run HoT elite specs.

booooooooooooooo

So much for build diversity…

MammerJammer.6174:

It can’t be that bad…

can it?

It isn’t.

Playing without HoT is like playing CS:GO without the ability to use an AWP. You’re at a disadvantage but you can still compete.

Please remember that that forums ridiculously exaggerate everything.

Crinn.7864:

MammerJammer.6174:

It can’t be that bad…

can it?

It isn’t.

Playing without HoT is like playing CS:GO without the ability to use an AWP. You’re at a disadvantage but you can still compete.

Please remember that that forums ridiculously exaggerate everything.

Since expansion launch not a single non-HoT build was played in tournaments, not even in amateur ones. Just pure coincidence I guess. If you want to make it past silver without getting carried you have to play an elite spec.

MammerJammer.6174:

Will I be at a competitive disadvantage without HoT in sPvP?

I’m not buying it until it goes on sale again, but I don’t want to be kitten in sPvP by not having it.

its fairly unavoidable that new builds will feature extensively. Think of it on the positive side, HOT gives you something really tangible – new builds that are useful that you will want to use all the time (think of the alternative, imagine HOT builds were meh).

vesica tempestas.1563
“its fairly unavoidable that new builds will feature extensively. Think of it on the positive side, HOT gives you something really tangible – new builds that are useful that you will want to use all the time (think of the alternative, imagine HOT builds were meh).”

Variety is tangible too. I would have like to hear that HoT provided new competitive builds, not mandatory ones.

ps
sorry, not certain how to quote on these forums, or if it’s disabled in the Q/A format

ye i would agree its desirable that all builds including those without HOT builds are viable, what i meant is that there is always an implicit need for new builds to be interesting and desirable (to make expansions as desirable as possible) and that often takes precedence especially where there are budgets involved and its all about getting best bang for the buck.

I guess Anet instead of adding armor tiers they added SPEC tiers lol… must have new class if want to play game or have a chance to use more easy gimmicks to win.

…..

Anet adding HoT is a business decision – after all they are in business to make money and HoT, and subsequent expansions, are how they do it. HoT specs are meant to be better in some ways and do out perform core specs but this is by design as an expansion so that they can continue both to function as an entertainment provider and a as thriving business. if you do not want to get HoT you will be at a disadvantage but not impossibly so and you can still enjoy sPvP (as well as other game modes) if you know this going in.

HOT specs are not strong because of some evil dev conspiracy.

HoT specs are strong because the devs used 3 years of experience of what works and what doesn’t when designing them. The Core specs have their designs dating back to prelaunch when the devs where spitballing.

Crinn.7864:

HOT specs are not strong because of some evil dev conspiracy.

HoT specs are strong because the devs used 3 years of experience of what works and what doesn’t when designing them. The Core specs have their designs dating back to prelaunch when the devs where spitballing.

lol that makes no sense the core specs of 3 years ago actually had balance give and take with the trait system.. now its a mess and no direction. The game was way more balanced back then as they keep on changing class balance around forgetting the reasons why they had it. good example is mesmer having shatters do actions even without illusions… you had to destroy all illusions to use the strong abilities of shatter.. now they are just spammed. Also you invested in 1 trait line to do more condition duration which makes sure that those types of builds require the trait line to keep them in check. Now we have anything being used in any type of build which to this day since the trait revamp AND the stat changes of removing locked stats on specific trait lines we have what we have today… the mess of balance. I can ramble on but yeah.. def not improving on anything just a constant landslide every patch note on balance.

Soothsayer.9206:

Anet adding HoT is a business decision – after all they are in business to make money and HoT, and subsequent expansions, are how they do it. HoT specs are meant to be better in some ways and do out perform core specs but this is by design as an expansion so that they can continue both to function as an entertainment provider and a as thriving business. if you do not want to get HoT you will be at a disadvantage but not impossibly so and you can still enjoy sPvP (as well as other game modes) if you know this going in.

I’m sorry but this is just naive, and blatantly untrue.

Anyone with any business sense in the MMO industry would not have released this expansion or would have waited a very long time to do so based just on the beta community feedback alone. And ANet was in no shape of need whatsoever to release one. ANet’s profit margins from the release in 2012 were so massive they’re still riding that revenue. It literally came down to a vocal minority whining about the lack of hard PvE/new maps/no expansions (why anyone would even actively want these I do not understand), and since it’s about PvE, ANet delivered.

Almost 70% of ANet’s revenue during the expansion-sales period on a month-by-month basis both before and after came from gem charges. The expansion sold terribly, was expected by analysts and players to sell terribly, had multiple PR nightmares before it even launched, and has factually caused large-scale disinterest in the game. ANet lost more than it gained by a very large margin due to it, so much so that even NCSoft administration has directly criticized the expansion as an economic waste/failure.

The irony of it all is that HoT was not sold to be a major PvE expansion but a functionality one (elite specs, raid tech, gliding, masteries, etc.), yet it most profoundly failed in a bulk majority of those while its redeeming facets were the PvE content that was even stated when it was first announced to be a minor player.

Basically ANet screwed themselves permanently with it by doing too much at once and not doing a good job. Colin quickly going to Amazon dodged a bullet because the expansion if not massively overhauled will straight-up kill the game as it has already started to, which would be a pretty big resume-killer without another major project/game in between looking for a new job.

@OP: Don’t bother, and don’t ever bother trusting ANet with your money again, either. Literally every single promise made about HoT was broken, down to the release of more legendary weapons.

And sorry Crinn, but aside from a few broken implementations, the state of the game’s balance at launch was by far and large astronomically better than it is now, where literally any build so long as it was founded in some sort of concept, worked.

There are a few possibilities you can try.

1) Guardian: Bunker or Burn or even GS+Sword/Focus
2) Necromancer: Condi or Power (Condi is stronger on Vanilla)

DeceiverX.8361:

Soothsayer.9206:

Anet adding HoT is a business decision – after all they are in business to make money and HoT, and subsequent expansions, are how they do it. HoT specs are meant to be better in some ways and do out perform core specs but this is by design as an expansion so that they can continue both to function as an entertainment provider and a as thriving business. if you do not want to get HoT you will be at a disadvantage but not impossibly so and you can still enjoy sPvP (as well as other game modes) if you know this going in.

I’m sorry but this is just naive, and blatantly untrue.

Anyone with any business sense in the MMO industry would not have released this expansion or would have waited a very long time to do so based just on the beta community feedback alone. And ANet was in no shape of need whatsoever to release one. ANet’s profit margins from the release in 2012 were so massive they’re still riding that revenue. It literally came down to a vocal minority whining about the lack of hard PvE/new maps/no expansions (why anyone would even actively want these I do not understand), and since it’s about PvE, ANet delivered.

Almost 70% of ANet’s revenue during the expansion-sales period on a month-by-month basis both before and after came from gem charges. The expansion sold terribly, was expected by analysts and players to sell terribly, had multiple PR nightmares before it even launched, and has factually caused large-scale disinterest in the game. ANet lost more than it gained by a very large margin due to it, so much so that even NCSoft administration has directly criticized the expansion as an economic waste/failure.

The irony of it all is that HoT was not sold to be a major PvE expansion but a functionality one (elite specs, raid tech, gliding, masteries, etc.), yet it most profoundly failed in a bulk majority of those while its redeeming facets were the PvE content that was even stated when it was first announced to be a minor player.

Basically ANet screwed themselves permanently with it by doing too much at once and not doing a good job. Colin quickly going to Amazon dodged a bullet because the expansion if not massively overhauled will straight-up kill the game as it has already started to, which would be a pretty big resume-killer without another major project/game in between looking for a new job.

@OP: Don’t bother, and don’t ever bother trusting ANet with your money again, either. Literally every single promise made about HoT was broken, down to the release of more legendary weapons.

And sorry Crinn, but aside from a few broken implementations, the state of the game’s balance at launch was by far and large astronomically better than it is now, where literally any build so long as it was founded in some sort of concept, worked.

just because things didn’t go well for HoT’s release doesn’t mean that it’s not business related, it’s naïve to think otherwise. Anet’s business saavy is not in question either, it was their decision to make and they made it, ultimately, to better their company. Furthermore, the bottom line is to get people to spend their money however they can and HoT was designed to be a part of that process. HoT specs give players incentive to buy it and all that goes with it, but that’s not a guarantee for success, that’s part of the enterprise of doing business.
HoT specs are stronger than core specs and that’s by design (it’s part of how gaming companies choose to do business – expansions and such), players can still enjoy many things at the core level, even in sPvP. The issue is should they expect to compete on the same level with the elite specs of HoT? no, HoT introduces specializations that can out preform core ones and that’s by Anet design. if elite specs of HoT didn’t offer more than core, what incentive is there to buy HoT?
Finally, if a player is aware that it is going to be difficult to compete with core specs against HoT elite specs in sPvP, then they can still enjoy gw2 sPvP (and other game modes). otherwise, they will be frustrated believing that they are on par with HoT elites. I personally enjoy gw2 but I do it realistically and with the understanding things will always be in development (my wife is a developer in another field – its always an ongoing process in web related development). so, I try not to complain.

Soothsayer.9206:

DeceiverX.8361:

Soothsayer.9206:

Anet adding HoT is a business decision – after all they are in business to make money and HoT, and subsequent expansions, are how they do it. HoT specs are meant to be better in some ways and do out perform core specs but this is by design as an expansion so that they can continue both to function as an entertainment provider and a as thriving business. if you do not want to get HoT you will be at a disadvantage but not impossibly so and you can still enjoy sPvP (as well as other game modes) if you know this going in.

I’m sorry but this is just naive, and blatantly untrue.

Anyone with any business sense in the MMO industry would not have released this expansion or would have waited a very long time to do so based just on the beta community feedback alone. And ANet was in no shape of need whatsoever to release one. ANet’s profit margins from the release in 2012 were so massive they’re still riding that revenue. It literally came down to a vocal minority whining about the lack of hard PvE/new maps/no expansions (why anyone would even actively want these I do not understand), and since it’s about PvE, ANet delivered.

Almost 70% of ANet’s revenue during the expansion-sales period on a month-by-month basis both before and after came from gem charges. The expansion sold terribly, was expected by analysts and players to sell terribly, had multiple PR nightmares before it even launched, and has factually caused large-scale disinterest in the game. ANet lost more than it gained by a very large margin due to it, so much so that even NCSoft administration has directly criticized the expansion as an economic waste/failure.

The irony of it all is that HoT was not sold to be a major PvE expansion but a functionality one (elite specs, raid tech, gliding, masteries, etc.), yet it most profoundly failed in a bulk majority of those while its redeeming facets were the PvE content that was even stated when it was first announced to be a minor player.

Basically ANet screwed themselves permanently with it by doing too much at once and not doing a good job. Colin quickly going to Amazon dodged a bullet because the expansion if not massively overhauled will straight-up kill the game as it has already started to, which would be a pretty big resume-killer without another major project/game in between looking for a new job.

@OP: Don’t bother, and don’t ever bother trusting ANet with your money again, either. Literally every single promise made about HoT was broken, down to the release of more legendary weapons.

And sorry Crinn, but aside from a few broken implementations, the state of the game’s balance at launch was by far and large astronomically better than it is now, where literally any build so long as it was founded in some sort of concept, worked.

just because things didn’t go well for HoT’s release doesn’t mean that it’s not business related, it’s naïve to think otherwise. Anet’s business saavy is not in question either, it was their decision to make and they made it, ultimately, to better their company. Furthermore, the bottom line is to get people to spend their money however they can and HoT was designed to be a part of that process. HoT specs give players incentive to buy it and all that goes with it, but that’s not a guarantee for success, that’s part of the enterprise of doing business.
HoT specs are stronger than core specs and that’s by design (it’s part of how gaming companies choose to do business – expansions and such), players can still enjoy many things at the core level, even in sPvP. The issue is should they expect to compete on the same level with the elite specs of HoT? no, HoT introduces specializations that can out preform core ones and that’s by Anet design. if elite specs of HoT didn’t offer more than core, what incentive is there to buy HoT?
Finally, if a player is aware that it is going to be difficult to compete with core specs against HoT elite specs in sPvP, then they can still enjoy gw2 sPvP (and other game modes). otherwise, they will be frustrated believing that they are on par with HoT elites. I personally enjoy gw2 but I do it realistically and with the understanding things will always be in development (my wife is a developer in another field – its always an ongoing process in web related development). so, I try not to complain.

I have to agree, a bad business decision does not mean it’s not a business decision. Also HOT is not necessarily a bad business decision, it didn’t sell poorly. As far as I remember, what did poorly was the conversion of free-to-play users to pay users.

Another thing look at it this way, in other MMO, they raise the level cap instead. Would you try to use a lvl 60 rogue in vanilla WoW to beat a lvl 70 expansion rogue? Why don’t you try that and see how that goes.

At least in GW2 it’s not impossible.

Also IMO, HOT is well worth its full price, if you consider the continued updates, raids, fractal, living stories (new maps) Even pvp, stronghold aside, the 2 new maps in unranked is pretty fun.

Expansions are necessary for publicity.

Nobody in the wider community goes “oh man this game I don’t play is having a balance patch, sounds awesome!!!!”

People do however go “Did you hear about that new expansion for XYX game?”

Expansions keep aging games like gw2 in the wider spotlight which is important if you want to attract new players.

bigmonto.4215:

.
I have to agree, a bad business decision does not mean it’s not a business decision. Also HOT is not necessarily a bad business decision, it didn’t sell poorly. As far as I remember, what did poorly was the conversion of free-to-play users to pay users.

Nothing personal, it’s all business.

bigmonto.4215:

Another thing look at it this way, in other MMO, they raise the level cap instead. Would you try to use a lvl 60 rogue in vanilla WoW to beat a lvl 70 expansion rogue? Why don’t you try that and see how that goes.

At least in GW2 it’s not impossible.

Also IMO, HOT is well worth its full price, if you consider the continued updates, raids, fractal, living stories (new maps) Even pvp, stronghold aside, the 2 new maps in unranked is pretty fun.

The problem is that they publicly came out and said the entire intent was to not introduce any power creep and keep all core content relevant. This was said and repeated since the announcement of the expansion at PAX South. That was also a business decision, and one which made a lot of people royally kittened off. Basically it’d be like of Blizzard said they fully intend to allow the level 60 rogue to beat the level 70 one because they don’t intend to release more powerful skills or gear despite the level cap increase. These are two very different things; they also knew that advertising power creep would kill the game near-instantly as most GW2 players are not interested in a level-cap raise/power creep on gear/do not want to surrender their build to the meta.

PvP’s a pretty miserable experience if playing on core anything except guard (with the condi buffs) or warrior.