Guild Wars 2

1. Poor build variety, so many parts of each class not even used

2. Skills glitching with the map or bugged

3. Conditions vastly outperforming power builds

4. Bad PvP system. Newer games have tried pip system and quickly changed it.

5. Terrible interface. We really shouldnt be guessing (or “feeling”) when our skills are off cooldown. I suggested a small progress bar at the bottom of each slot that indicates the time left on the other skill that shares the same slot. Maybe changes colour to when the skill is off cooldown.

6. Still no ingame voice chat system. Honestly there is no excuse for this, there is an MMORPG released in 2009 that has it. I dont think people understand how huge this would be for PvP.

7. Constantly destroying and over buffing classes. I dont understand why this happens
- Guardian used to die to thieves, even S/D thief. Guardian should have been given some sort of mobility impairment skills or buffed the spirit weapons to keep up with base thieves, instea you created a no brain thing like trap dragon hunter that should always kill thieves.

- Constantly nerfing Revenant without fixing the bad stuff like hammer, glitchy skills, Salvation trait line, Ventari, Jalis. No stun break on Mallyx or Ventari. ridiculous heal on ventari.

- Pushing eles to pure support tank then to uselessness then to slightly more manageable uselessness.

Honestly after switching my main from necro to thief then to revenant, I thought if I could still mantain my playstyle on Revenant i would probably stick around despite the foolishness the studio feeds us every patch but after the change to unwavering avoidance after the changes to phase traversal plus the other legends being useless, i think im tired man, its been 4 years of this anti-progress nonsense.

It really sucks because i got invited to a team and was serously considering it, maybe even appearing on ESL but after this patch there is no way.

3) Power builds are more prevalent than condition builds…

5) You can turn on skill timers.

6) In game voice chat is not worth the development time or resources.

7) This most recent patch is the exact opposite of what you’re describing. It was minor changes, not destroying or overbuffing. Guardians always countered Thieves. Revenant deserved the nerfs, although I won’t disagree that other aspects need buffs. Elementalist has not been useless since the Celestial Amulet was introduced years ago. Don’t talk about balance if this is all you know about it.

Ragion.2831:

1. Poor build variety, so many parts of each class not even used

2. Skills glitching with the map or bugged

3. Conditions vastly outperforming power builds

4. Bad PvP system. Newer games have tried pip system and quickly changed it.

5. Terrible interface. We really shouldnt be guessing (or “feeling”) when our skills are off cooldown. I suggested a small progress bar at the bottom of each slot that indicates the time left on the other skill that shares the same slot. Maybe changes colour to when the skill is off cooldown.

6. Still no ingame voice chat system. Honestly there is no excuse for this, there is an MMORPG released in 2009 that has it. I dont think people understand how huge this would be for PvP.

7. Constantly destroying and over buffing classes. I dont understand why this happens
- Guardian used to die to thieves, even S/D thief. Guardian should have been given some sort of mobility impairment skills or buffed the spirit weapons to keep up with base thieves, instea you created a no brain thing like trap dragon hunter that should always kill thieves.

- Constantly nerfing Revenant without fixing the bad stuff like hammer, glitchy skills, Salvation trait line, Ventari, Jalis. No stun break on Mallyx or Ventari. ridiculous heal on ventari.

- Pushing eles to pure support tank then to uselessness then to slightly more manageable uselessness.

Honestly after switching my main from necro to thief then to revenant, I thought if I could still mantain my playstyle on Revenant i would probably stick around despite the foolishness the studio feeds us every patch but after the change to unwavering avoidance after the changes to phase traversal plus the other legends being useless, i think im tired man, its been 4 years of this anti-progress nonsense.

It really sucks because i got invited to a team and was serously considering it, maybe even appearing on ESL but after this patch there is no way.

1. agree
2. yeah
3. arguable
4. good idea, bad implemented
5. UI definitely could use more tells
5. not sure about this one. I play OW atm which has built in voice chat and people usually don’t talk anyway or actually annoy you so much that you just mute them.
6. lol you lost me at thieves. Thieves NEVER, ever, EVER, countered guards. More like the opposite – guards were always hardcounter to thieves. Medi guards, forgot about them?
Every class had to deal with game breaking bugs since launch, revs are nothing special there. Also, let’s not forget how overtuned revs were at launch – why shouldn’t they get nerfed?
I agree that eles lack variety atm but so does about every class. At least they have niche, some classes didn’t have any for ages (e.g. wars in s1-s2)

Nothing stops you from playing on a team. If your team doesn’t want you because you play rev/thief/necro then you don’t want such team.

i mean you wont be able to play ranked in a team so thats kinda pointless. post above me nailed it all.

Ragion.2831:

7. Guardian used to die to thieves, even S/D thief.

LOL You lost me here. Stopped reading after this.

Spartacus.3192:

Ragion.2831:

7. Guardian used to die to thieves, even S/D thief.

LOL You lost me here. Stopped reading after this.

Maybe he meant Guardians that were already at 10% health with no CD’s left? That one baffles me.

I agree with Olrun except on point 7, class balance.

There are two common perspectives on class balance you see here:
1) things are pretty good, but some classes could use a few tweaks
2) things are completely out of whack and it’s kitten

I think both are valid depending on your point of view, but people don’t have all the same point of view. For instance, for pros like Olrun, its reasonable that classes seem pretty balanced because they know the classes and can adjust to whatever changes that are made.

For non-elite players like me however, the changes are harder to deal with. Take Rev for instance, my preferred class for PvP and WvW. They nerfed stab on dodge in the patch, which makes it really hard for me to play now. I spent months getting used to this class and this particular feature made it easier for me, now its gone. I’ve played a few matches since the patch and I just get CCed into next week in every one. The class is not fun for me anymore, but its a big effort to learn how to play it again or pick up a new class, because I only play a couple of games per day max. So I’m just giving up and I am not even going to bother with sPvP anymore.

One response is, who cares? Just tweak balance for the elite players and its all good. However, that conflicts with another goal the community claims to have, which is making sPvP more popular (both for playing and streaming). There just aren’t that many elite players out there, so making the builds continually more specialized and exclusive doesn’t help with that goal.

Just bringing this up because perceived build balance is different based on skill level and the differences do affect the population of sPvP.

I mean, obviously it takes less skilled players longer to adjust, but that doesn’t mean the balance is bad. Your specific example isn’t even relevant, since Retribution isn’t used at top tier anyway, so that change was obviously directed at the general population.

Spartacus.3192:

Ragion.2831:

7. Guardian used to die to thieves, even S/D thief.

LOL You lost me here. Stopped reading after this.

i remember a time…a LONG time ago, thieves could pick off guards pretty easy. Stealth also had the issue of culling back then as well. Ofc as well these were the days where warrior had very weak healing signet and no condition removal no resistance. I’m sure some people will remember.

That was back in the bunker guard days. Even then, Thief just didn’t die to it instantly because it wasn’t built for pressure…

Olrun, the change to retribution made Rev harder to use for the general population. I think my point still stands, they are making changes that actively push out new or less dedicated players. Whether they are doing this in support of Pros or to meet some vision of their own doesn’t really matter, the outcome is the same.

Mushin.3928:

Olrun, the change to retribution made Rev harder to use for the general population. I think my point still stands, they are making changes that actively push out new or less dedicated players. Whether they are doing this in support of Pros or to meet some vision of their own doesn’t really matter, the outcome is the same.

That didn’t stop Anet from nerfing every single stealth attack on thieves, even from weapon sets that never saw the light of pvp.
That didn’t stop Anet from effectively deleting thieves and wars in s1 and s2 for the sake of sales.

Why should overtuned classes like revs get different treatment? Thieves should l2p and revs should have easy life because of noobs? How about no? If you are going to require high skill and dedication for being able to play a class and balance around such requirements then all classes should be treated like this not just 1-2 red headed children.

I look at all this rev QQ and think every time – if you all only knew how good you have it and how bad it was for thieves and wars in s1 (you literary got reported for playing the class before match even started) and how bad it is still for core builds. Instead of self pity go play core classes/builds for couple weeks at higher tiers – maybe then you will realize that revs are actually good and will be still taken by every top team.

Shadowstep.6049:

Why should overtuned classes like revs get different treatment? Thieves should l2p and revs should have easy life because of noobs? How about no? If you are going to require high skill and dedication for being able to play a class and balance around such requirements then all classes should be treated like this not just 1-2 red headed children.

I’m with Mushin here; after the patch I feel that Herald (most specifically: the marginally and nichely played condi Herald) is now useless in most departments of the game, mostly due now lacks any access to stability (I known that stealth is a exclusive feature for some classes, but didn’t figure that stability has the same status) and the game (specifically after the HoT release, which has a huge amount of enemies with cc skills) is nearly unplayable/lacks fun with this calss now, so I recoiled towards my main again, and just stopped playing Herald.

Condi Glint-Mallyx has only a single breakstun (cd 20s), Gaze of Darkness, and in order to improve that you must be forced to use the Invocation traitline (to get stab on legend swap), but due the energy mechanics, you’re severily limited about how and when you can swap the lengends, because this is mainly used to refill your energy in order to be able to use skills, so now you must chose between not changing the lenged in order to being able to breakstun (which means halving the number of skills you use due the lack of energy) or using skills as always (which means being extremely vulnerable to cc).

Due the class was already known for his poor condition cleansing and poor stunbreack capabilities the nerf (nuke) of stability makes the class a less desirable choice for general public: you need to rely in the existance of a stability provider (mostly Guardians) in your group or being a top notch player (evading 100% of incoming attacks) to play Herald now. This also invalidates the nature of the Unwavering Avoidance nerf: If I’m able to evade or block every cc why I would need stability? Anyway, was too much of a change for a game that in PvE mostly demands you to use autoattcaks all the time. Some classes don’t need to get access to stability to be successful (I main a Meditrapper) but those classess had configurable utilities, whereas the Herald lacks flexibility in his skill choices.

8. Cant save more templates for hotkeys, if you change proff you have to change it manually every time.
This game lacks even basic things ……

All I see is this.

@Mushin Yes, the Retribution change made Revenant harder to play. I wasn’t disagreeing with that. I was disagteeing with the assumption that the change was weaker players paying for top tier balance. Top tier play doesn’t use Retribution. The change was made specifically because Anet thought Revenant was too easy to play at low tier. And I agree. Near permanent passive Stability is bad design and skillless in nature.

Cynz.9437:

6. lol you lost me at thieves. Thieves NEVER, ever, EVER, countered guards. More like

I dunno man, i played thief for about a year before the june 23rd 2015 patch, when S/D was playable, it was rlly easy to counter guards because of their lack of mobility if you had nice evasion timing. It was just a matter of recalling during guards sword 3 and GS This is why guards have the traps and pull.

Also i had d/p as second set instead of shortbow to reduce the need to recall. I also tried fighting S/D thieves on guard and the same thing happened. The thief would have to be rlly slow to get killed by core guard back then.

Not too many people were that good at thief especially since pvp wasnt that big till HoT release so i can understand why many dont believe S/D acro countered guards.

If you guys remember, it was thief/warrior as the top classes then guard because meditations. 3 good thieves used to ruin entire mini zergs in WvW

Ragion.2831:

1. Poor build variety, so many parts of each class not even used

2. Skills glitching with the map or bugged

3. Conditions vastly outperforming power builds

4. Bad PvP system. Newer games have tried pip system and quickly changed it.

5. Terrible interface. We really shouldnt be guessing (or “feeling”) when our skills are off cooldown. I suggested a small progress bar at the bottom of each slot that indicates the time left on the other skill that shares the same slot. Maybe changes colour to when the skill is off cooldown.

6. Still no ingame voice chat system. Honestly there is no excuse for this, there is an MMORPG released in 2009 that has it. I dont think people understand how huge this would be for PvP.

7. Constantly destroying and over buffing classes. I dont understand why this happens
- Guardian used to die to thieves, even S/D thief. Guardian should have been given some sort of mobility impairment skills or buffed the spirit weapons to keep up with base thieves, instea you created a no brain thing like trap dragon hunter that should always kill thieves.

- Constantly nerfing Revenant without fixing the bad stuff like hammer, glitchy skills, Salvation trait line, Ventari, Jalis. No stun break on Mallyx or Ventari. ridiculous heal on ventari.

- Pushing eles to pure support tank then to uselessness then to slightly more manageable uselessness.

Honestly after switching my main from necro to thief then to revenant, I thought if I could still mantain my playstyle on Revenant i would probably stick around despite the foolishness the studio feeds us every patch but after the change to unwavering avoidance after the changes to phase traversal plus the other legends being useless, i think im tired man, its been 4 years of this anti-progress nonsense.

It really sucks because i got invited to a team and was serously considering it, maybe even appearing on ESL but after this patch there is no way.

you are bad ..venom thieves now destroys guardian…
there’s actually a lot of build that works, it just that people doesn’t want to try them.

Venom thieves destroy… bad guardians…

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Venom thieves destroy… bad guardians…

guess all guardians are bad then, cause i destroy them all

Lost me at 5 since skill timers are an option and have been as long as I remember.

DeceiverX.8361:

Lost me at 5 since skill timers are an option and have been as long as I remember.

Someone mentioned this earlier i ignored it cuz i thought it was a mistake.

Turn on skill timers, use your weapon skills with cooldowns then swap weapons. Can you see the timer on the skills you just used? No? There you go.

I imagine Grouch or Gaile woud have seen this thread by now and i think Gaile is in programming

Plz tell who ever is supposed to do the interface to drop the slot sizes for weapons and utility skills and then fit in a space for trait passives, sigils and rune cooldowns represented by symbols. Add in a slightly transparent progress bar at the bottom of each skill slot that shows the cooldown for skills you swapped from that share the same slot. Then figure something out for transformation skill cooldowns like celestial form and shroud. I dunno what you are gonna do about eles tho

I dont think any mmorpg created makes you guess when your skills are off cooldown. Definitely not any done in the last 15 years.

Lavexis.5360:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Venom thieves destroy… bad guardians…

guess all guardians are bad then, cause i destroy them all

Or your better at thief than they are at guardian. In the end that’s how you won a fight in pvp, my being better than the guy your fighting. Not going to beat them otherwise.

Ragion.2831:

DeceiverX.8361:

Lost me at 5 since skill timers are an option and have been as long as I remember.

Someone mentioned this earlier i ignored it cuz i thought it was a mistake.

Turn on skill timers, use your weapon skills with cooldowns then swap weapons. Can you see the timer on the skills you just used? No? There you go.

I imagine Grouch or Gaile woud have seen this thread by now and i think Gaile is in programming

Plz tell who ever is supposed to do the interface to drop the slot sizes for weapons and utility skills and then fit in a space for trait passives, sigils and rune cooldowns represented by symbols. Add in a slightly transparent progress bar at the bottom of each skill slot that shows the cooldown for skills you swapped from that share the same slot. Then figure something out for transformation skill cooldowns like celestial form and shroud. I dunno what you are gonna do about eles tho

I dont think any mmorpg created makes you guess when your skills are off cooldown. Definitely not any done in the last 15 years.

So you want to be able to see skill cooldowns that are currently unavailable, anyways?
A chunk of the skill in PvP is knowing when and when not to swap weapons. A majority of the skill in PvP is keeping track of time. The best PvP players always know how much time is left on a majority of both their abilities and their opponents’. With practice, your own become second nature. If you swap too early, that’s entirely on you. Play an FPS game and go complain about how you don’t know how much ammo is left in your gun/the reload status on it after swapping to another. You’re going to be told to keep track and learn to play. You’re told what the cooldowns are. The second weapon is an entirely separate entity, and you need to treat it as such while respecting how you rotate and swap. Honestly, this complaint is just silly. It sounds like you never got the hang of the game, frankly. If you wanted to complain about cooldowns, it should be about the number of passive procs on ICD’s and how those aren’t visible, not that weapon skills which you as the player are responsible for keeping track of aren’t.

And Gaile isn’t with programming at all, lol. She’s lead of communications. Basically game PR. Aside from writing reports on how the players are perceiving the game state, she’s about as far away from development – particularly programming – as it gets.

Ragion.2831:

6. Still no ingame voice chat system. Honestly there is no excuse for this, there is an MMORPG released in 2009 that has it.

Eve online was released in 2003.

But I don’t agree. I think in-game voice would be an extravagance. Having seen what they ARE working on, though, (legendary armour) I don’t care anymore. I give up.

Svarty.8019:

Ragion.2831:

6. Still no ingame voice chat system. Honestly there is no excuse for this, there is an MMORPG released in 2009 that has it.

Eve online was released in 2003.

But I don’t agree. I think in-game voice would be an extravagance. Having seen what they ARE working on, though, (legendary armour) I don’t care anymore. I give up.

Even if there was in game voice chat, id turn it off. Don’t want to listen to some teen waiting for his voice to brake screaming down the mic how noob people are.

I can only give insight to number one, i play core not that i lack supportive capabilities and start trying to feed their korean overlord on their Elite part but to the most recent in four years of beta testing and practicing stuff? i’d say Arena.net truly stand on their words that they are just another way to play around.
Honestly though, i never felt so much skilled play using my core builds since the introduction of Heart of Thorns™