Guild Wars 2

I have been playing this game since beta, and closely following the forums, and since this game has gone live I’ve heard almost nothing except complaints about what FOTM build/skill is giving people headache. First it was 100b warriors, then Mesmers who Moa you for 10 mins whilst owning you with multiple illusions/phantasms/whatever, then thieves who backstab who 1-2 shot you, and now finally it’s unkillable bunker builds – so in two months the overall gist of the forums has gone from “too much burst damage” to “not enough burst damage”… it’s just insane, and honestly, if I were Anet, I’d be ignoring 95% of the whinging here, because they predicted it – they said straight up they didn’t want to get into a situation where they’re over-nerfing abilities based on community moaning, especially when next week it’ll be something else entirely that’s totally OP and needs to go, and so far from what I’ve seen, they’ve been proved completely right.

Yes it’s hard to remain objective when you’ve been continually shut down by the same class, no the game is not perfect and yes, it still has a fair few bugs and needs more variety…but really? It may be a bitter pill when you feel that something is broken in-game and the response is l2p, but in actual fact most if not all of the supposed class imbalances can be sorted by one or more of the following:
1) play the class that’s giving you grief and either learn its weaknesses, or congrats, find your new favourite class to play.
2) play a different class to see how they fare against this “superOP” uber-class. (my squishy ele gets eaten by theives, my healy guardian…not so much).
3) WORK AS A TEAM – this game was never meant to be a 1v1 game, if it were they would have made deathmatch-only maps right from the start. Its amazing how so many of these “imbalances” disappear when you actually work together. Yes it’s hard when you play with pugs but hey, I’m a casual player and even I could pug enough to learn my class to the point where I’m comfortable playing tournaments, or at least find a few friends in game to group with in spvp.

I am an unashmed Anet fanboy, as I’ve realised the problem isn’t the game, it’s the unrealistic expectations of what a class is supposed to do, coupled with the seeming inability for more than two people to work together to win a match, so please, unless you’re reporting a bug, before we have any more outraged players spewing bile all over the forum, take a good hard look at how you’re playing, what your teamwork is like, and what you should reallistically expect from a class. This forum could be so much more – I was hoping to see discussions about builds, tactics, map strategies, class tips… I don’t see any of that happening, and if it is, it’s swamped by so much hate it may as well not even be written. Can we pretty please, with sugar on top, all just get along long enough to learn our classes well, work together, and have a good time?

TL;DR – 95% of the time it really is a l2p issue, and/or a l2p with others issue.

Orrrr it could be that some players have the right idea and that some ideas are just not made equal (i.e. “nerf 100b pl0x!”, the quintessential “l2p” problem, vs. bunker builds just being straight-up boring to play and play against).

“except complaints about what FOTM build/skill is giving people headache. First it was 100b warriors, then Mesmers who Moa you for 10 mins whilst owning you with multiple illusions/phantasms/whatever, then thieves who backstab who 1-2 shot you, and now finally it’s unkillable bunker builds – so in two months the overall gist of the forums has gone from “too much burst damage” to “not enough burst damage”… "

There are a very few warriors that go outside the 100b, only because it is so effective, even in a team format.

Mesmers’ Moa still hasn’t been touched, and it should have been.

Assassin’s Signet nerf was necessary. Now Thieves can actually rely on other builds because of the boost of 15% for 5 attacks, if they so choose to use this particular signet.

Bunkers have been talked about since the beginning. I know, because I was there.

“Its amazing how so many of these “imbalances” disappear when you actually work together.”

I agree, going 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 does fix most of these imbalances. See what I did there?

For me, the reason I come on forums and talk about things that I believe are causing problems is because I care, enjoy, and want to keep playing this game for a long time to come.

If I come on the forums, and I present an issue, would you be so kind as to provide me with a solution?

“Less QQ, more Pew Pew” and “L2P” are lazy responses, to say the least, and just serve to tell me that you don’t care enough about the game or others in the game to provide a viable solution.

And I’m an Anet fanboy too.

Jeeber.2037:

Yes it’s hard to remain objective ….

I am an unashmed Anet fanboy

Self discrediting. Gotta love it.

Merciless.5349:

“except complaints about what FOTM build/skill is giving people headache. First it was 100b warriors, then Mesmers who Moa you for 10 mins whilst owning you with multiple illusions/phantasms/whatever, then thieves who backstab who 1-2 shot you, and now finally it’s unkillable bunker builds – so in two months the overall gist of the forums has gone from “too much burst damage” to “not enough burst damage”… "

There are a very few warriors that go outside the 100b, only because it is so effective, even in a team format.

Shout warriors aren’t effective in a team setting? Bunker builds aren’t effectve in a team setting? I can’t see a warrior setup that’s NOT effective when supporting a team. But working together isn’t the easy glory farming option, so it’s ignored in the pursuit of kills.

Mesmers’ Moa still hasn’t been touched, and it should have been.

I agree, I did say it wasn’t perfect…

Assassin’s Signet nerf was necessary. Now Thieves can actually rely on other builds because of the boost of 15% for 5 attacks, if they so choose to use this particular signet.

Bunkers have been talked about since the beginning. I know, because I was there.

“Its amazing how so many of these “imbalances” disappear when you actually work together.”

I agree, going 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 does fix most of these imbalances. See what I did there?

I saw… ever think a tough 2v1 is an easy 2v2? How many skills from different classes are designed to work in conjunction with each other? Answer: lots.

For me, the reason I come on forums and talk about things that I believe are causing problems is because I care, enjoy, and want to keep playing this game for a long time to come.

Then you’re not part of the problem, grats.

If I come on the forums, and I present an issue, would you be so kind as to provide me with a solution?

sure, what’s your question, ask the Oracle, he’s here to help.

“Less QQ, more Pew Pew” and “L2P” are lazy responses, to say the least, and just serve to tell me that you don’t care enough about the game or others in the game to provide a viable solution.

And I’m an Anet fanboy too.

Good, Anet needs more love atm, cuz all it’s getting is rage from people blaming the game for their own inadequacies. It’s not a bad thing to get behind a company that actually cares about the game they’ve made and the community that supports it.

Braxxus.2904:

Jeeber.2037:

Yes it’s hard to remain objective ….

I am an unashmed Anet fanboy

Self discrediting. Gotta love it.

think you’re confusing self discrediting with pride. I’ve bought some real pieces of sht games in the past from companies that didn’t give a toss once they took your money. This isn’t one of them.

About bunkers

Have you ever learned of Charles Darwin’s Theory? If the environment allows for the fittest to survive, they will survive.

It’s a capture points game so bunkers are a natural fittest evolution. To say that they’re not allowed in the game is like saying that fishes arent allowed in the sea.

Much comes from the stubborness of only wanting to balance around a single game mode.

Introduce different game modes and suddenly not every strong build now will be great for the other forms of pvp.

The important balancing thing here is that you should give weaknesses if needed. For example:

guardian bunkers are reall strong in capture mode.
They would remain equally strong if they don’t have much mobility at all, not even if they would have moving penalties on top of that. Since they mostly stay on the point they defend.

Now introduce capture the flag.
First idea: hey, let’s give it to the guardian again, bunker as they are!
But he’s slow, sooo slow. He ultimately dies every time since he can’t escape, and this game has no healers…

In that particular game mode other ‘lesser’ bunkers will arise, more speedy like engineers or elementals to name somethign.

Other roles in different game modes would be filled in different as well.

I truly believe focusing on one game mode only, actually leads to certain builds being too strong always.

As for tournaments:
mix up the game modes but very importantly: don’t allow build changes once the tournament started.
Since you can’t go all out for one mode than (guardian bunker example again), you’ll be forced to use more balanced buoilds.
That alone would even out the extreme builds in their usefullness.

I find all these posts about being polite and nice to people very interesting. Even if i agree with you that we should be polite and nice to Anet (because your mom thought you to be like that, and she knows best) most people posting these things forget that I and much more other people would like to reserve their right to complain. And yes we complain a lot because the game as a LOT of bugs and balance issues at the moment, but guess what, we are not Anet friends or family, we’re their costumers, and if the product they are selling is flawed they will have to suck it up and fix it, and yes you are also a costumer! You paid for their services and as it stands they are in dept to you, because the game at the moment the game isn’t even near to what it was advertising.
Pratical example of this: Image if you we’re eating at the restaurant (that for some reason you had to pay before eating, lets call it a group meal) and you got dirty forks, drinks we’re hot, food tasted bad, the waiter took forever to get to you and kept messing up the orders, what would you do(of course I’m exagerating, I’m just trying to make a point, GW2 even flawed isn’t a terrible experience at all)? Ask for a refund? What if they denied you? Can you honestly take a restaurant to court for one bad meal? Or would you simply go berserk like you see so many posters around these forums?
Something to think about

I complain a lot, but I don’t offend often. I try not to at all, but sometimes I can be so full of myself and really have that tone of looking down on someone in my post
Not good, but it happens when I find the post beyond reason.

Anyhow, I strongly believe that discussing clashing opinions is healthy and good for a game.

What strikes me in the OP’s post however, is the way he gives examples of people critisizing the game as being too hostile and whatever. He mentions the ones having issues the most.

He does not list the many very agressive responses the defenders of this game often post.

Without exagerating: this game has some of the most hostile elitist players I’ve seen on any forums in a long while.
It’s as bad as the pure arena and rated bg forums of WoW, and that’s saying something.

But somehow the OP doesn’t adress those defenders, at all.
He mostly says: those who critisise please be quiet and polite, so the rest of us can have our forums to ourselves.
He should mention the very fierce defenders as well, they are just as hostile, or often worse, than the ones bringing up issues they have.

In general I agree that forums are also a fun place to discuss builds, strategies, fun facts, and all of that.

Guess what: not a single post of mine on the engineer forum is as critical as the ones I put on the pvp or general discussion, or recently the halloween forums.
There is a reason the more general forums attrackt more heat.

And this being the spvp forum, it is bound to attrackt the most heat.
And justly so: this is where the most frustrating things happen, when you fight other players and you feel the odds aren’t even.

Good post man. While player feedback is essential to progress the game and keep it evolving in a positive manner, people just don’t do it in a constructive and comprehensive manner most of the time. Most genuinely don’t understand how team-oriented this game is- I love pugging in structured PvP and getting groups where NO ONE on the team communicates whatsoever… why do structured if you aren’t organizing? Oh well, glad to see some people get it =)

Totally agree with the OP. The fact that most of the time that it is a learn to play issue yet these people at a sad skill level can’t adapt stays on a game that demands skill.

I see where your coming from. And I follow a similar philosophy in this game. (And, pretty much every game I play.) Leave balance to the devs (with the exception of bugs, but even then I don’t rant about it bugs I find, I just report them) focus on learning the intricacies of the game. Getting destroyed by build? Analyze it until you understand it and its weaknesses. Don’t want to change your build to counter it? Then accept the weaknesses of your build and change your approach. Want to learn an unpopular build? Examine its strengths and limitation, and play according to those factors. And heck, you may discover something new.

If you’re looking for balanced PvP, you’re in the wrong game genre. That’s all there is to it. This game has it’s own rather interesting issues (such as animations for hits not even registering on screen), but actual balance won’t ever be achieved here.

You say that as if these things literally came one after another. This is not the case. I’ve seen the problem with bunker builds for weeks. The volume has increased little since then. And yeah, just in case you were wondering the game isn’t perfectly balanced. So people come to the forums to talk about it. What else is it here for?