Guild Wars 2

Rune of Vampirism in its current state isn’t healthy for the game – it’s a passive jail free card every 60 seconds that can completely negate a coordinated burst of 3 players and even elite skills on 3 minute CD like Moa. The situation is so bad that sometimes ESL teams agree not to use it at live tournaments because it kills not just skillful play but the fun for both the players and viewers.

If it won’t get removed then at least it should be changed by moving the passive proc from 20% HP to 90% – this way it could still prevent players from being instakilled from stealth before the fight even begins, but it couldn’t negate big CDs or well executed burst in teamfights. Also increase CD to 90 seconds.

Thoughts?

If Vamp runes stay the same we might aswell revert the functions of these runes:

Lyssa granting every boon on elite use
Air being able to passively crit for 5k
Svanir stunbreaking the iceblock and remaining invul

Hell, we could even introduce cancer perplexity runes.

Delete vamp, problem solved, it’s noskill casualmode.

Change functionality to this:

When you would take fatal damage, you are instead healed for that amount (icd 60s).
Buys time to react, but can still be killed within a couple of seconds if the burst was good enough.

When you drop below 50% health, cast Signet of the Locust.
40-50s CD.

Or how about vamp gives you 1 second of mist. Won’t get one-shot but easier to follow-up on the target.

removing the mobility of the vampire form would do the job tbh and it should interrupt actions when going into that form. right now you can even stomp when it procs and you’re already in the animation.

not that passive elixir s is less innocent than vamp runes btw.

Rym.1469:

When you drop below 50% health, cast Signet of the Locust.
40-50s CD.

I like this idea.

Edit: But then again there are many invulnerabilities in the game which negate the fun or coordinating burst. Signet of stone, double elixir s, double endure pain, distortion. Half of the classes have ways to get out of jail free.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Rym.1469:

When you drop below 50% health, cast Signet of the Locust.
40-50s CD.

I like this idea.

That signet scales too well with healing power, could potentially become OP on bunker/cele specs with the expansion – it could instantly send you back to 100% HP.

witcher.3197:

FeelsAlright.5860:

Rym.1469:

When you drop below 50% health, cast Signet of the Locust.
40-50s CD.

I like this idea.

That signet scales too well with healing power, could potentially become OP on bunker/cele specs with the expansion – it could instantly send you back to 100% HP.

Touche, I like the idea of stealing health at X% though.

?

Why nerf when you can just apply condibomb before 25%?

Vamp rune mist proc locks you out of all skills and leaves a visible vapor trail. you cant cleanse when you’re in it, and if a user has heal off cooldown you can time interrupts for the moment they peel out of it.

Why this deserves a hard nerf I dont know.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Why this deserves a hard nerf I dont know.

Then don’t comment, or read up on the issue, sorry.

witcher.3197:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Why this deserves a hard nerf I dont know.

Then don’t comment, or read up on the issue, sorry.

R00d

I am well aware of the “issue”

My statement was directed to why a minute long cd mist skill is so hard to counter that it deserves a hard nerf.

Coordinated burst? track him and poke him when he de-mists.
Is it a thief? Wait for the evade.
Anything else interrupt.

You’re asking to nerf several builds because some people can’t follow a smoking orb for a couple of seconds.
CD increase is fine, but 90% proc suggestion defeats the purpose of the rune and just leaves the player stuck in mist without any way to react to whatever just hit them. Any player attacking vamp player will hold their cds, and vamp player will have no skills to get away, block, or return damage. Instead of buying time for cds to come back up, it would just be a silly mid-battle pause.

That and, like I said, any heavy condi applied while rune user is under 20% cannot be purged. There’s ample room to counterplay the traits of the rune with any dot condi.
And since condi ignores toughness, it eats well into whatever HP constitutes 20% of any class, if not completely through.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

witcher.3197:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Why this deserves a hard nerf I dont know.

Then don’t comment, or read up on the issue, sorry.

R00d

I am well aware of the “issue”

My statement was directed to why a minute long cd mist skill is so hard to counter that it deserves a hard nerf.

Coordinated burst? track him and poke him when he de-mists.
Is it a thief? Wait for the evade.
Anything else interrupt.

You’re asking to nerf several builds because some people can’t follow a smoking orb for a couple of seconds.
CD increase is fine, but 90% proc suggestion defeats the purpose of the rune and just leaves the player stuck in mist without any way to react to whatever just hit them. Any player attacking vamp player will hold their cds, and vamp player will have no skills to get away, block, or return damage. Instead of buying time for cds to come back up, it would just be a silly mid-battle pause.

That and, like I said, any heavy condi applied while rune user is under 20% cannot be purged. There’s ample room to counterplay the traits of the rune with any dot condi.
And since condi ignores toughness, it eats well into whatever HP constitutes 20% of any class, if not completely through.

You burst any build, vamp proc, and when it finishes teleport away. You had a kill without vamp runes, now you have nothing.

Krysard.1364:

You burst any build, vamp proc, and when it finishes teleport away. You had a kill without vamp runes, now you have nothing.

You have a class that cannot come near you for 60(90 is fine) seconds assuming it is a class with a blink off cd, he got the blink off without being stunlocked (mesmer only) -and- did not pick up bleeding/burning/poison/torment.

-and- had terrain suitable to obfuscate pursuit with said blink close enough to get to it with <20% HP remaining.

Those are rare instances. Not impossible instances, but rare.

Any other situation is literally waiting three seconds.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Krysard.1364:

You burst any build, vamp proc, and when it finishes teleport away. You had a kill without vamp runes, now you have nothing.

You have a class that cannot come near you for 60(90 is fine) seconds assuming it is a class with a blink off cd, he got the blink off without being stunlocked (mesmer only) -and- did not pick up bleeding/burning/poison/torment.

-and- had terrain suitable to obfuscate pursuit with said blink close enough to get to it with <20% HP remaining.

Those are rare instances. Not impossible instances, but rare.

Any other situation is literally waiting three seconds.

Im literally unkillable with thief/mesmer thanks to vamp runes, cause when I get bursted I just survive and then run away. Also, the only way to get rid of a cele ele is to burst him down or he will just heal himself, and if he runs vamp runes, well, half of the time the burst is useless, tp away and heal.

BTW I dont get what are you trying to say with stunlocked blink

Oh my God, just remove the Invulnerable Mist, it’s that simple. There is absolutely no reason for ArenaNet to be battling #6 bugs on this rune for so long other than lacking creativity.

Change the last function to:
(6): When you use an elite skill steal health from all nearby foes. (Cooldown: 60s)

Give it the same animation as Unholy Feast, give it a 400 radius and steals 491 health from up to 5 foes.
Easy.

Speaking of easy,

Superior Rune of Svanir
(6): When you’re struck below 20% health, summon a Frozen Ground, gain Resistance and become an invulnerable block of ice that all lasts for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

Nova Stiker.8396:

Oh my God, just remove the Invulnerable Mist, it’s that simple. There is absolutely no reason for ArenaNet to be battling #6 bugs on this rune for so long other than lacking creativity.

Change the last function to:
(6): When you use an elite skill steal health from all nearby foes. (Cooldown: 60s)

Boom, easy, give it the same animation as Unholy Feast, give it a 400 radius and steals 491 health from up to 5 foes.

I really want a rune that promotes life steal (cough cough vamp rune), so this #6 kinda goes on a wanted direction.

Maybe Im going a little bit crazy, but what about next attack stealing life after a succesful dodge?

laquito.5269:

Delete vamp, problem solved, it’s noskill casualmode.

Like bursting people down (esp from stealth) or being bursted without a chance to retreat takes much skill

kitten.8746:

laquito.5269:

Delete vamp, problem solved, it’s noskill casualmode.

Like bursting people down (esp from stealth) or being bursted without a chance to retreat takes much skill

Here is a better argument, learn how not to get bursted. Get on a thief, learn how to properly escape certain death.

Nova Stiker.8396:

kitten.8746:

laquito.5269:

Delete vamp, problem solved, it’s noskill casualmode.

Like bursting people down (esp from stealth) or being bursted without a chance to retreat takes much skill

Here is a better argument, learn how not to get bursted. Get on a thief, learn how to properly escape certain death.

Right, on a teef… But if I choose to play something else, then in order to learn how to avoid the burst I should still “get on a teef”?

Nova Stiker.8396:

Oh my God, just remove the Invulnerable Mist, it’s that simple. There is absolutely no reason for ArenaNet to be battling #6 bugs on this rune for so long other than lacking creativity.

Change the last function to:
(6): When you use an elite skill steal health from all nearby foes. (Cooldown: 60s)

Boom, easy, give it the same animation as Unholy Feast, give it a 400 radius and steals 491 health from up to 5 foes.

This is also fine if radius was larger.

Point taken with Cele D/D, but only because taking a minute to re-burst the elementalist is feasible and vamp will be up by then. Cooldown increase would fix this issue, but the issue is more the build than the rune.

“…and there was much rejoicing from the burn guardians as foes transformed themselves into mist immediately after receiving an opening burst, losing their ability to cleanse any and all conditions.”

kitten.8746:

Nova Stiker.8396:

kitten.8746:

laquito.5269:

Delete vamp, problem solved, it’s noskill casualmode.

Like bursting people down (esp from stealth) or being bursted without a chance to retreat takes much skill

Here is a better argument, learn how not to get bursted. Get on a thief, learn how to properly escape certain death.

Right, on a teef… But if I choose to play something else, then in order to learn how to avoid the burst I should still “get on a teef”?

Right, thief needs MORE nerfs. Why not just superglue SB onto their hands, remove all skills aside from sb5 and call it a day. You have no idea how easily a thief goes down vs a competent opponent.

- burn guards (lolblock). BEFORE the buffs, I saw a condi guard down a thief just by blocking/weapon swapping and dodging around.

- warrior with GSIf they even GRAZE you with 3-5, that’s a half life. If they land their adrenaline skill, that’s a down. Not to mention passive AND active EP giving them the exact same effect as a vamp rune, only they can attack with EP up AND it lasts longer.

- mes is a toss up unless thief feels like camping stealth for a few minutes till the mes runs out.

- engi (see warrior argument), they just come with even more cleave and condi if they so choose.

- ranger needs a rework.

- necro can either get a lucky series of procs and fear you into a wall while they finish you off or get totally rekt.

Idek why people keep asking for thief nerfs x.x

@OP

I share my hate of all passive things as well. I prefer knowing when they’ll proc.

How’s about we make the mistform proc on elite with the same cool down if they use the elite after they’ve been pushed past 50%. That way, as the enemy, you know when its coming. As the user, you know when its coming. More offense oriented builds -cough-rampagewarrs-cough- will find it cumbersome and use something else and bunker builds will find a viable power rune to pick up. It’ll also gives eles a reason to take tornado and make plague look a little more appealing to necros. It would probably make mass invis for mesmers a little over the top (perfect escape) and make bunker guards a little too tanky, but its nothing a coordinated burst can’t deal with quickly.

SlayerSixx.5763:

How’s about we make the mistform proc on elite with the same cool down if they use the elite after they’ve been pushed past 50%,

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Thief / DD elite suffers.

I’m okay with bumping up CD time, instead of this, or a more active heal on elite dependent on nearby enemies.

Idk man, I don’t use vamp runes on my thief and I don’t feel like they’re necessary. Also, the whole point was for it to hurt offensive builds since Anet needs to deviate away from this every class has access to everything but can’t do everything as well as everyone else can because reasons and that’s why any effective nerfs can’t happen.

Bring a condi class.

While the condi player load the enemy with Vamp runes and the zerk player bring the hp down, the enemy will be cursed with invulnerability and he can’t do anything while bleed/burn/poison stacks kill him.

runeblade.7514:

Bring a condi class.

While the condi player load the enemy with Vamp runes and the zerk player bring the hp down, the enemy will be cursed with invulnerability and he can’t do anything while bleed/burn/poison stacks kill him.

This is a heavy counter to dracula runes for sure. Unfortunately the meta we live in doesn’t have much of a focus on condition specs.

Aside from any balance related action on this rune, I think much of the frustration with it would be alleviated if it wasn’t allowed to be used if some of the more tankier amulets are taken in builds. Like this would ever happen (I realize) but I think would solve most of the problems with it.

Vamp runes aren’t that great….. Sure, they are insane in the current meta of the top-level teams, but if just a few start running conditions, vamp-runes are actually very bad, cuz they keep you from cleansing your conditions while you are ticking down.

No need to nerf them until we see if conditions are useful in the competetive meta with hot.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Oh my God, just remove the Invulnerable Mist, it’s that simple. There is absolutely no reason for ArenaNet to be battling #6 bugs on this rune for so long other than lacking creativity.

Change the last function to:
(6): When you use an elite skill steal health from all nearby foes. (Cooldown: 60s)

Give it the same animation as Unholy Feast, give it a 400 radius and steals 491 health from up to 5 foes.
Easy.

---

Speaking of easy,

Superior Rune of Svanir
(6): When you’re struck below 20% health, summon a Frozen Ground, gain Resistance and become an invulnerable block of ice that all lasts for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

I both like and dislike this idea. And the only reason I dislike it is because when you have enough targets around you you can get a pretty significant amount of health back. If it’s a weaker version of Signet Of The Locust then it would be okay but if I pop SotL on my Necro with a group around me I can get like 7k health back, lol.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Oh my God, just remove the Invulnerable Mist, it’s that simple. There is absolutely no reason for ArenaNet to be battling #6 bugs on this rune for so long other than lacking creativity.

Change the last function to:
(6): When you use an elite skill steal health from all nearby foes. (Cooldown: 60s)

Give it the same animation as Unholy Feast, give it a 400 radius and steals 491 health from up to 5 foes.
Easy.

---

Speaking of easy,

Superior Rune of Svanir
(6): When you’re struck below 20% health, summon a Frozen Ground, gain Resistance and become an invulnerable block of ice that all lasts for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

I both like and dislike this idea. And the only reason I dislike it is because when you have enough targets around you you can get a pretty significant amount of health back. If it’s a weaker version of Signet Of The Locust then it would be okay but if I pop SotL on my Necro with a group around me I can get like 7k health back, lol.

I’m tossing ideas, I’m not going to spend time with number crunching for the best result. Even if the if the #6 on the rune was changed right now to what I stated I wouldn’t mind, there are big reasons why no one uses Arcane Brilliance despite being the highest return ele heal, you NEED 5 targets and not blinded. So if a necro wants to hug 5 enemies and use Plague or Golem charge go ahead.

@OP:

I’m personally fine with the rune. If you are against passive procs, there is a whole bunch of other ones I’d tackle first.

style.6173:

@OP:

I’m personally fine with the rune. If you are against passive procs, there is a whole bunch of other ones I’d tackle first.

The rune is just bad by design, teaching bad habits to players.

I’m seeing more and more thieves only healing after the mist procs and other players behaving similarly stupid in fights.

PowerBottom.5796:

Vamp runes aren’t that great….. Sure, they are insane in the current meta of the top-level teams, but if just a few start running conditions, vamp-runes are actually very bad, cuz they keep you from cleansing your conditions while you are ticking down.

No need to nerf them until we see if conditions are useful in the competetive meta with hot.

I believe that, as it stands, you will never see condition builds useful in competitive PvP, outside of some burnstackers who kill you in 2s. AoE cleansing potential is simply too strong. If you face condition-focused gear, just bring more DD Eles, Shout Guards or Warriors. You don’t sacrafice all your damage, but they do. Two of above can basically reduce Condition build’s pressure to 0 and he might as well go somewhere else or /dance.

Nova Stiker.8396:

style.6173:

@OP:

I’m personally fine with the rune. If you are against passive procs, there is a whole bunch of other ones I’d tackle first.

The rune is just bad by design, teaching bad habits to players.

I’m seeing more and more thieves only healing after the mist procs and other players behaving similarly stupid in fights.

Maybe they’re new.
Maybe they’re running zerker.

Healing before a mist proc when your heal is an evade depends on situation. If they’re expecting burst or cc, of course they’d save the heal knowing they have a buffer. That could easily be smart play.

CD bump would be agreeable, but asking it to be outright removed isnt necessary, and neither is making it situationally useless by making it proc too soon to be anything other than a tactical liability.