Guild Wars 2

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

l2p, if you get hit by hit?

Again if they would just make it only knock you down when you moved I think it would make a huge difference, not only could you block but you could also hit the eng back

That’s how it should’ve been from the first place. Slick Shoes should’ve always been a high risk high reward playstyle, but then they add a stun break on the tools and then 16 gear second gear shield.

Engi only started becoming truly easy mode because of slick shoes honestly.

Overcharge shot is every 12 seconds so baiting out cool downs for a slick shoes KO isn’t that hard. Not to mention slick shoes is an unblockable frame-eater and has NO CAST TIME.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Your suggestion would be effective if Engineers would still use Slick Shoes, and live with the lower survivability. But that underlying assumption is really not how it would work, I’ll explain:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot, and compete with a secondary kit. Exactly like Rocket Boots, Throw Mine, and Personal Battering Ram currently are (they’re all worse than Tool Kit or another secondary, and thus, junk). As good as Slick Shoes are, the Engineer would be forced to take another Stunbreak, and then drop a kit to put Slick Shoes back in.

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Hope that helps put it in perspective, from an Engi player

^ Minion Master/Spirit Ranger (Especially together) ran 0 stun breaks pre-nerfs and a different meta. Neither of which are really viable ‘now’ though.

But either way. I’m not sure removing the stunbreak is necessary. Honestly, I think the spell itself functions horribly. I wouldn’t know how to fix it without engineers getting all defensive and frustrated with me, but in reality, playing slip and slide on oil slicks is pretty kitten awful. Of course… I’m likely pretty biased considering I play necro and while 1v1 Engies can have a hard time with condition necros, necromancers in general are still incredibly susceptible to CC.

Also, Slick Shoes + Grenade F-ability is a frame eater and a half. (I know that’s not really a “balance” issue, but its still an issue).

Chaith has the truth here.

When Anet removed to Elisir – R the chance to be a stun break, it disappeared from any engi meta build.

It would be the same.

Its a melee skill thats the tradeoff 3 seconds is pretty short anyway.

slick shoes is completely balanced other than the fact that it knocks people over if they shadowstep over it, this is ESPECIALLY stupid with shadowsteps that are also stunbreakers like Shadow Step and Infiltrator’s Signet.

and yes, since guardian’s ring of warding and other ward-type skills i do this as well i believe, they are broken in the same exact way as slick shoes.

i don’t know if this happens with teleports since they differ from shadowsteps, but if it does it’s all the more senseless.
(shadowsteps are all thief teleport mechanic skills and they don’t actually teleport like teleports; they just move you across the ground really fast, technically)

the only nerf i can imagine would be warranted for this skill is to decrease the number of red circles it creates. taking off the stunbreak would destroy the skill.

I have to agree with what was said earlier and say that making it so that it only knocks down MOVING targets would be enough. Theres no reason to get knocked down over and over when your just standing still on it. And thats largely what makes it such a horendously overpowered cc. The fact that it stacks on itself repeatedly.

Or as someone else said only have it knock down someone if they are moving. Then there’s some counterplay for people who are paying attention to what the engi is doing.

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

You don’t absolutely need Elixir S for Entangle Rangers or Mediguards. Overcharged Shots need to be used effectively in both of these fights if you use Slick Shoes. Ring of Warding and Entangle both can be escaped with it. I’ve been learning to use that skill against those two classes with more care than wantonly trying to juggle people right off to bat.

E-Gun is better than Elixir S in my opinion. Much shorter CD on its stunbreak, more team support, allows for a lot of kiting, additional form of poison and quick weakness.

glock.6590:

I’m sorry but having extreme duration CC skills with no cast time is absurd. Do you realize that slick shoes and overcharged shot have 0 counterplay besides random dodging them or blowing cooldowns in the hopes that you don’t get CC’ed.

Slick shoes are so ridiculous that engineer’s supposed “hard counter” which is necro , can get 100-0’ed because of slick shoes.

Such powerfull CC either needs a cast time or a straight up nerf. Even hammer warriors which are supposed to be CC beasts don’t even have a good CC skill compared to engineers.

Oh also its unblockable and ignores stun breaks that aren’t blinks. It can 100-0 half of the classes in the game. Gud balance gud!

Yet some of the best players don’t get 100-0d when my glorious jheri curled perm starts spilling its grease all over the floor.

I agree with slick shoes needing to be toned down, but from playing as an engie and playing other classes against engies, I think some of the problems is just people not paying attention to it.

the only needed fix is that it should only affect moving targets

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Your suggestion would be effective if Engineers would still use Slick Shoes, and live with the lower survivability. But that underlying assumption is really not how it would work, I’ll explain:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot, and compete with a secondary kit. Exactly like Rocket Boots, Throw Mine, and Personal Battering Ram currently are (they’re all worse than Tool Kit or another secondary, and thus, junk). As good as Slick Shoes are, the Engineer would be forced to take another Stunbreak, and then drop a kit to put Slick Shoes back in.

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Hope that helps put it in perspective, from an Engi player

When power creep ( and outgoing damage) wasn’t so ridicolous, there were clearly engi builds without stunbreak.

Nade-bomb-toolkit and nades-tool-rocket boots were a choice.

Mrbig.8019:

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Your suggestion would be effective if Engineers would still use Slick Shoes, and live with the lower survivability. But that underlying assumption is really not how it would work, I’ll explain:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot, and compete with a secondary kit. Exactly like Rocket Boots, Throw Mine, and Personal Battering Ram currently are (they’re all worse than Tool Kit or another secondary, and thus, junk). As good as Slick Shoes are, the Engineer would be forced to take another Stunbreak, and then drop a kit to put Slick Shoes back in.

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Hope that helps put it in perspective, from an Engi player

When power creep ( and outgoing damage) wasn’t so ridicolous, there were clearly engi builds without stunbreak.

Nade-bomb-toolkit and nades-tool-rocket boots were a choice.

Don’t forget w/o the power creep we would still be in the bunker era. I wonder which is better.

silvermember.8941:

Mrbig.8019:

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Your suggestion would be effective if Engineers would still use Slick Shoes, and live with the lower survivability. But that underlying assumption is really not how it would work, I’ll explain:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot, and compete with a secondary kit. Exactly like Rocket Boots, Throw Mine, and Personal Battering Ram currently are (they’re all worse than Tool Kit or another secondary, and thus, junk). As good as Slick Shoes are, the Engineer would be forced to take another Stunbreak, and then drop a kit to put Slick Shoes back in.

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Hope that helps put it in perspective, from an Engi player

When power creep ( and outgoing damage) wasn’t so ridicolous, there were clearly engi builds without stunbreak.

Nade-bomb-toolkit and nades-tool-rocket boots were a choice.

Don’t forget w/o the power creep we would still be in the bunker era. I wonder which is better.

bunker era

where u had to hard ress ( instead of random spam dead body with poison and damage),

where u had to hard burst ( instead of random AoE spam),

where u had to actually rotate your bunker to the team fight ( instead of sending your 1vs1 cele hero on every point holding people 1vs2 long enough to let the rest of your team to snowball)

where passive was minimal ( air-fire, geo-doom etc, not even trickery steal existed).

yes please.

silvermember.8941:

Mrbig.8019:

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Your suggestion would be effective if Engineers would still use Slick Shoes, and live with the lower survivability. But that underlying assumption is really not how it would work, I’ll explain:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot, and compete with a secondary kit. Exactly like Rocket Boots, Throw Mine, and Personal Battering Ram currently are (they’re all worse than Tool Kit or another secondary, and thus, junk). As good as Slick Shoes are, the Engineer would be forced to take another Stunbreak, and then drop a kit to put Slick Shoes back in.

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Hope that helps put it in perspective, from an Engi player

When power creep ( and outgoing damage) wasn’t so ridicolous, there were clearly engi builds without stunbreak.

Nade-bomb-toolkit and nades-tool-rocket boots were a choice.

Don’t forget w/o the power creep we would still be in the bunker era. I wonder which is better.

What’s better would be a nice middle ground… Slightly less bursty but slightly more survival dps. Slightly less tanky bunkers that could do slightly more damage (not like celestial ele). just some nudges inward. And remove some of the instant crap in he game so the game was more act and react and less twitch break, that’d be great.

Of course, this is an opinion and not everyone will share it, but immortal players make for bad game design, but on the same token instsnt gib or be insta-gibbed (necro/thief/fresh air) is just as bad. A nice place where people die but actually having to react rather than following a fast-paced rotation would be golden.

Chaith.8256:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot

Spot on. Remove the stun break and the skill is dead.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Agree. Cut the duration of the ability from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. That eliminates multi-knockdown from all but the very best engis.

You could look at possibly increasing the cooldown on the stun break a little bit, but removing it cripples the skill as Chaith said.

None of those suggestions solve the problem. I say jus nerf it to uselssness whilst they think of how to make it fun to play both with and against. It wont hurt engis, all their skills and traits are good because they are like anets favourite son. Their recent new gm traits had so much thought behind them whilst guardian for example got boring traits.

Engis have 3 top tier specs which are totally different. They should be resiliant to nerfs and i would start with a massive one to slick shoes. It needs it anyway. Its the best utility in the game. So friggin op

it would realy help if target would get knocked down only when moving

Cynz.9437:

it would realy help if target would get knocked down only when moving

These all sound like (and not surprisingly come from) thief ideals. I wouldn’t say it’d totally fix it for people who can’t just teleport around. It fixes it for you guys, but you’re by and large, not the only people who are affected by it. :P

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

Speak for yourself.

Two problems with Slick Shoes:

1) Super Speed works while carrying the orb in Spirit Watch. Annoying if you like this map
2) It sometimes seems to affect not moving target, and that should be fixed

Now, you have to realize that engineer’s utilities are designed to be among the best in the game. Tool Kit for example is a combination of 5 great utility skills. It’s how the profession works. Now, engineer has to play a stun breaker, which excludes every triple kit build without EG. Before the Slick Shoes buff, engineers ran only two possible, viable stun-breakers: Elixir S and EG. Slick Shoes was buffed to their level and that’s good. I personally prefer EG, but I won’t have build diversity injured because some players need to l2p.

Hint: Yes it’s insta cast, yes it’s unblockable, but it’s melee range, so just watch the animation.

What I’d prefer is that Slick Shoes can only knock down a single target once per cast, never more. Everything else about the skill in its current incarnation is fine, although I also think a cast time sort of like Caltrops wouldn’t be unwarranted.

Rising Dusk.2408:

What I’d prefer is that Slick Shoes can only knock down a single target once per cast, never more. Everything else about the skill in its current incarnation is fine, although I also think a cast time sort of like Caltrops wouldn’t be unwarranted.

That’s not an entirely bad idea. I could see an ICD per character work, the same way that shocking aura works. It would need a slightly reduced CD though.

Rising Dusk.2408:

What I’d prefer is that Slick Shoes can only knock down a single target once per cast, never more. Everything else about the skill in its current incarnation is fine, although I also think a cast time sort of like Caltrops wouldn’t be unwarranted.

I stepped onto Slick Shoes only twice so far, and that alone was my fault for being a lazy bum and “picking in nose” while running after engineer.

People need to start looking at what’s around them and what they are running into.

There is no reason to nerf a good and working skill in order to adapt it to bots who mindlessly auto follow even in circles their targets.
There is also no need to create a mentality that you have to work hard to land something on someone. There is a Dodge roll to avoid it.

If not, then redesign game, add Accuracy and Evasion attributes which will partially fill the “cba” part of lazy players.

Engineers need toolkit to not be free kills and they need a dps kit like grenades to not be useless.
That leaves 1 slot and since going hero mode with no stunbreaks doesn’t cut it..well..not many options. Even without the “stunbreak slot” the utility is pretty limited because unlike other classes you can really only pick one.

Slick shoes is devastating but people seem to forget it bugs out so much. From rangers lightning reflexes right out of it to people outright stepping out because of some weird reason they just bug a lot.

The only bug that could be implemented in a real mechanic is staying still to negate the effects. It doesn’t make it useless but I think it will help people a lot since most of the frustration seems to come from the inability to control their character.

Tao.5096:

Rising Dusk.2408:

What I’d prefer is that Slick Shoes can only knock down a single target once per cast, never more. Everything else about the skill in its current incarnation is fine, although I also think a cast time sort of like Caltrops wouldn’t be unwarranted.

I stepped onto Slick Shoes only twice so far, and that alone was my fault for being a lazy bum and “picking in nose” while running after engineer.

People need to start looking at what’s around them and what they are running into.

There is no reason to nerf a good and working skill in order to adapt it to bots who mindlessly auto follow even in circles their targets.
There is also no need to create a mentality that you have to work hard to land something on someone. There is a Dodge roll to avoid it.

If not, then redesign game, add Accuracy and Evasion attributes which will partially fill the “cba” part of lazy players.

What class do you play? You make such blanket statements but I can guarantee you, not all classes can handle things equally. It might be “fine” for people with a lot of teleports or re-placing stun breakers (lightning reflexes) but some people do t have that luxury and it can be rather painful. I wouldn’t consider it necessarily “balanced” and just a “pay attention” issue. Engineer (specifically meta builds) have enough CC to root out some breaks, and OCS has a low cooldown. All it takes is minimal baiting and an OCS or even a nice net shot and it can be pretty well gg for some set ups if they take full advantage of it. More so in real team pvp. Itd be like if guardian could cast a hammer ring around you that was only like 50u in radius right on you and instantly that would knock you down even if you didn’t move. It’s really not “fine”.

That said. I wouldn’t know how to fix it because, honestly, engineers are pretty resistant to change it seems, and as Chaith said, it probably would just go away. (Not that I’d care, I think it’s a terribly made skill) Thats for the balance team to figure out. But yeah, it’s not always just a L2P issue. Engjneer have enough low cd CC to make strong use of slick shoes in many cases. Obviously it’s more powerful than people are willing to admit, or they wouldn’t have hard switched from the long-running elixir utility.

ronpierce.2760:

Obviously it’s more powerful than people are willing to admit, or they wouldn’t have hard switched from the long-running elixir utility.

They were buffed, so of course some people are now using it! If no one changed, it would just mean that the skill was still bad. People changing something in their build is a good sign! It means there is more diversity.

In addition, celestial engineer became meta. The way we played the game changed, and for some reason a build that was played only by engineer aficionados was duplicated by a lot of players wanting to fit in the meta (and who would blame them?). Slick Shoes is popular now for two main reasons:

- It was played on tournaments. People don’t always realize that in soloq, Elixir S is much more valuable, since an Elixir S rez is a lot easier to perform there than against a coordinated team. In a coordinated team, however, Slick Shoes can help finish down a target in a coordinated burst.

- A lot of these new engineer players are not experienced enough to play triple kit. That’s a good reason to consider taking Slick Shoes over EG.

I’m not saying the skill is bad. It’s good, but you still see a lot of engineers playing EG or Elixir S instead (in the last EU Go4GW2 weekly final, there were two engis, one with SS, the other with EG). That alone is a good indicator that the skill is balanced and its buffed just promoted a bit more diversity.

Tao.5096:

Rising Dusk.2408:

What I’d prefer is that Slick Shoes can only knock down a single target once per cast, never more. Everything else about the skill in its current incarnation is fine, although I also think a cast time sort of like Caltrops wouldn’t be unwarranted.

I stepped onto Slick Shoes only twice so far, and that alone was my fault for being a lazy bum and “picking in nose” while running after engineer.

People need to start looking at what’s around them and what they are running into.

There is no reason to nerf a good and working skill in order to adapt it to bots who mindlessly auto follow even in circles their targets.
There is also no need to create a mentality that you have to work hard to land something on someone. There is a Dodge roll to avoid it.

If not, then redesign game, add Accuracy and Evasion attributes which will partially fill the “cba” part of lazy players.

Look out fellas, we got a god over here. Only ever been hit by slick shoes twice! You either, A: Rarely PvP and therefore your opinion is invalid, or B: Only play hotjoin. Any half way decent engi can hit slick shoes once in a while. You either get net into slick shoes or you get OP shot into slick shoes. While you may get out of it a couple times a match with a stun break before the shoes comes in, you won’t always have that up. To say you have only ever been hit by slick shoes TWICE makes even the elitists roll their eyes.

Anyways, I agree with Chaith on the matter.

ronpierce.2760:

What class do you play? You make such blanket statements but I can guarantee you, not all classes can handle things equally. It might be “fine” for people with a lot of teleports or re-placing stun breakers (lightning reflexes) but some people do t have that luxury and it can be rather painful. I wouldn’t consider it necessarily “balanced” and just a “pay attention” issue.

P/P Engineer
D/D Necro
A/T Ranger
PU Mesmer
Custom War
D/P Thief

I only don’t play ele and guardian, because I kinda cba to learn rotations on both of them, and therefore I suk on them.

Engineer (specifically meta builds) have enough CC to root out some breaks, and OCS has a low cooldown. All it takes is minimal baiting and an OCS or even a nice net shot and it can be pretty well gg for some set ups if they take full advantage of it. More so in real team pvp. Itd be like if guardian could cast a hammer ring around you that was only like 50u in radius right on you and instantly that would knock you down even if you didn’t move. It’s really not “fine”.

Like I have said it already countless times.
Why do you people always just throw pros for each class/build?
Where are the cons?
Why won’t you say also, that Engineer has no stability?
In most cases it has only 1 utility slot for skill of personal choice, which in almost all cases is limited to utilities with stun break?

And so what about guardian? Yeah, you’re kded only when you touch the borders of the ring and so what? You’re locked in a box where one dodge roll ends up on the border and even if you won’t, you’ll eat anything guardian throws at you.
I personally see no difference in both cases.

But yeah, it’s not always just a L2P issue. Engjneer have enough low cd CC to make strong use of slick shoes in many cases. Obviously it’s more powerful than people are willing to admit, or they wouldn’t have hard switched from the long-running elixir utility.

There are other classes who are given much more CCs, along with fairly low cd.

Engineer’s only mobility is swiftness. This class is heavily vulnerable to all hard CCs due to lack of stability and limited stun breaks, and all soft CCs like cripple, chill or immobilize, due to limited condition cleanse – and that’s caused also, because you choose between stun break, or condi cleanse.

So slick shoes are perfect for running away and now, even more against classes with high stability upkeep.

Summarizing, it’s not always l2p issue, but very often it is. In this case, it mostly is. Slick shoes pattern is very easy to notice, and with one stun break you can easily follow engineer without getting down due to oil again. Matter of practice.

Tao.5096:

and that’s caused also, because you choose between stun break, or condi cleanse.

I agree with you on everything. But I have to say this: join the EG army! That way you get a stun-breaker AND remove two conditions every 20s (providing you save power wrench at this end)…

…and spray poison, spray mass condi removal, superior mobility, regen, heal, decent damage, strong AA and that lame #2 skill.

That stability patch was real overkill for anything facing the Engi.

If Slick Shoes did not eat bunch of stability stacks, but had an ICD and functioned as it was, I believe, supposed to (ala escape oil trail), there would be no problem.

Removing the stunbreak is silly! The cooldown needs to be increased back to 45 seconds but removing it is silly! Traited the stunbreak is at 23 seconds making it one of the shortest stunbreak cooldowns in the game and it resets at low health! The puddles should cap at 5! When you spawn a 6th puddle, the first puddle should disappear! Vee Wee has been saying this for a long time now! But nobody listens to Vee Wee!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Removing the stunbreak is silly! The cooldown needs to be increased back to 45 seconds but removing it is silly! Traited the stunbreak is at 23 seconds making it one of the shortest stunbreak cooldowns in the game and it resets at low health! The puddles should cap at 5! When you spawn a 6th puddle, the first puddle should disappear! Vee Wee has been saying this for a long time now! But nobody listens to Vee Wee!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Spot on. Taking the stunbreak no longer makes the skill viable. Increasing the CD of the stunbreak just raises the risk a little bit. The 6th puddle also allows greater stunlocks. I would add to this: you don’t get cc’d if you don’t move.

ArrDee.2573:

Removing the stunbreak is silly! The cooldown needs to be increased back to 45 seconds but removing it is silly! Traited the stunbreak is at 23 seconds making it one of the shortest stunbreak cooldowns in the game and it resets at low health! The puddles should cap at 5! When you spawn a 6th puddle, the first puddle should disappear! Vee Wee has been saying this for a long time now! But nobody listens to Vee Wee!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I’m for this.

Slick shoes is balanced and has plenty of counter play.

ArrDee.2573:

Removing the stunbreak is silly! The cooldown needs to be increased back to 45 seconds but removing it is silly! Traited the stunbreak is at 23 seconds making it one of the shortest stunbreak cooldowns in the game and it resets at low health! The puddles should cap at 5! When you spawn a 6th puddle, the first puddle should disappear! Vee Wee has been saying this for a long time now! But nobody listens to Vee Wee!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

This would be a start, but I would rather they just made it useless. Had enough of getting killed by this skill now (especially on warrior) by EVERY engineer (shows it takes no skills at all). People who like trolling with slick shoes have had their fun, now lets just nerf it into the ground and give other skills a chance to thrive.

Lordrosicky.5813:

ArrDee.2573:

Removing the stunbreak is silly! The cooldown needs to be increased back to 45 seconds but removing it is silly! Traited the stunbreak is at 23 seconds making it one of the shortest stunbreak cooldowns in the game and it resets at low health! The puddles should cap at 5! When you spawn a 6th puddle, the first puddle should disappear! Vee Wee has been saying this for a long time now! But nobody listens to Vee Wee!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

This would be a start, but I would rather they just made it useless. Had enough of getting killed by this skill now (especially on warrior) by EVERY engineer (shows it takes no skills at all). People who like trolling with slick shoes have had their fun, now lets just nerf it into the ground and give other skills a chance to thrive.

If you are getting killed by slick shoes on warrior it’s time to rethink your build. Simple as that.

Well I wouldnt mind a slight slick shoes nerf, but the rest of the gadgets really need some love.
1:battering ram is pretty bad the toolbelt damage doesnt even come close to just having toolkit throw wrench on your bar.
2: Rocket boots is fun, without some kind of evade at the end you just end up getting caught again as for the toolbelt 300 range is pitiful for a rocket style kick
3: Goggles these are actually not bad, but having to use a stunbreaker as a dps boost sucks toolbelt for it is fine though
4:Mine this ability should have charges like 3 uses then goes on full cd remove the boon strip from the main gadget or do something like toolbelt dispenses mines for a short time around you
5:A.E.D toolbelt should be a pbaoe 240 blast no cast time the gadget itself needs a lower cd and redesigned id like to see it be a gadget that converts damage into healing like 10% damage or something idk with a on use heal for an ok amount and recharges your other gadgets.

SobeSoul.6910:

Lordrosicky.5813:

ArrDee.2573:

Removing the stunbreak is silly! The cooldown needs to be increased back to 45 seconds but removing it is silly! Traited the stunbreak is at 23 seconds making it one of the shortest stunbreak cooldowns in the game and it resets at low health! The puddles should cap at 5! When you spawn a 6th puddle, the first puddle should disappear! Vee Wee has been saying this for a long time now! But nobody listens to Vee Wee!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

This would be a start, but I would rather they just made it useless. Had enough of getting killed by this skill now (especially on warrior) by EVERY engineer (shows it takes no skills at all). People who like trolling with slick shoes have had their fun, now lets just nerf it into the ground and give other skills a chance to thrive.

If you are getting killed by slick shoes on warrior it’s time to rethink your build. Simple as that.

If you are struggling to kill people with slick shoes then I think you need to rethink your build and your play. Simple as that.

Want to continue with this game?

Lordrosicky.5813:

SobeSoul.6910:

Lordrosicky.5813:

ArrDee.2573:

Removing the stunbreak is silly! The cooldown needs to be increased back to 45 seconds but removing it is silly! Traited the stunbreak is at 23 seconds making it one of the shortest stunbreak cooldowns in the game and it resets at low health! The puddles should cap at 5! When you spawn a 6th puddle, the first puddle should disappear! Vee Wee has been saying this for a long time now! But nobody listens to Vee Wee!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

This would be a start, but I would rather they just made it useless. Had enough of getting killed by this skill now (especially on warrior) by EVERY engineer (shows it takes no skills at all). People who like trolling with slick shoes have had their fun, now lets just nerf it into the ground and give other skills a chance to thrive.

If you are getting killed by slick shoes on warrior it’s time to rethink your build. Simple as that.

If you are struggling to kill people with slick shoes then I think you need to rethink your build and your play. Simple as that.

Want to continue with this game?

Don’t complain if you don’t run stab. Because I have played hambow in recent times and didn’t have huge issues with slick shoes.

I can use e-gun or Elixir S and kill people fine.

Oh, and guess what… Engies are vulnerable to slick shoes. Somehow it isn’t often that I die from slick shoes on engie.

Frightlight.3796:

Well I wouldnt mind a slight slick shoes nerf, but the rest of the gadgets really need some love.
1:battering ram is pretty bad the toolbelt damage doesnt even come close to just having toolkit throw wrench on your bar.
2: Rocket boots is fun, without some kind of evade at the end you just end up getting caught again as for the toolbelt 300 range is pitiful for a rocket style kick
3: Goggles these are actually not bad, but having to use a stunbreaker as a dps boost sucks toolbelt for it is fine though
4:Mine this ability should have charges like 3 uses then goes on full cd remove the boon strip from the main gadget or do something like toolbelt dispenses mines for a short time around you
5:A.E.D toolbelt should be a pbaoe 240 blast no cast time the gadget itself needs a lower cd and redesigned id like to see it be a gadget that converts damage into healing like 10% damage or something idk with a on use heal for an ok amount and recharges your other gadgets.

Not at all. These skills can be made viable by nerfing the other skills which are so OP that they keep these skills down (even though they are often good). Nerf healing turret and the other heals will look better. That is the solution. Not buffing the engis heals so everything they have is OP as kitten.

And rocket boots are amazing. Most classes would love that skill. Just because nades and slick shoes are so OP doesnt mean its bad. Nerf nades and slick shoes and things like rocket boots = become really good. Because it is really good compared to other classes. Engis have too much OP kitten.

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

it would realy help if target would get knocked down only when moving

These all sound like (and not surprisingly come from) thief ideals. I wouldn’t say it’d totally fix it for people who can’t just teleport around. It fixes it for you guys, but you’re by and large, not the only people who are affected by it. :P

it would help necros…. and believe or not warriors that just blew their stab to get stomp off or banner someone -_-

Lordrosicky.5813:

Frightlight.3796:

Well I wouldnt mind a slight slick shoes nerf, but the rest of the gadgets really need some love.
1:battering ram is pretty bad the toolbelt damage doesnt even come close to just having toolkit throw wrench on your bar.
2: Rocket boots is fun, without some kind of evade at the end you just end up getting caught again as for the toolbelt 300 range is pitiful for a rocket style kick
3: Goggles these are actually not bad, but having to use a stunbreaker as a dps boost sucks toolbelt for it is fine though
4:Mine this ability should have charges like 3 uses then goes on full cd remove the boon strip from the main gadget or do something like toolbelt dispenses mines for a short time around you
5:A.E.D toolbelt should be a pbaoe 240 blast no cast time the gadget itself needs a lower cd and redesigned id like to see it be a gadget that converts damage into healing like 10% damage or something idk with a on use heal for an ok amount and recharges your other gadgets.

Not at all. These skills can be made viable by nerfing the other skills which are so OP that they keep these skills down (even though they are often good). Nerf healing turret and the other heals will look better. That is the solution. Not buffing the engis heals so everything they have is OP as kitten.

And rocket boots are amazing. Most classes would love that skill. Just because nades and slick shoes are so OP doesnt mean its bad. Nerf nades and slick shoes and things like rocket boots = become really good. Because it is really good compared to other classes. Engis have too much OP kitten.

Well just from what i have seen almost every gadget we have is clearly outdone by just using a kit. I dont see why they cant just mix our gadget cd trait and gadgeteer together and add a few more traits into the game. I have tried countless builds with mostly gadgets and they are meh, although everything I just said can be scrapped if the new specialization actually is revolved around gadget play as well as the new utilities I can see gadget hammer builds being very useful.