Guild Wars 2

What will you nerf to make elite and core on par?

As the title says, lets discuss what can be done for that. I supose this one isnt the first thread of this kind, but i think it can help if the feedback its good.

Personally i main mesmer so thats the class i would make suggestions about (no point in suggesting what you dont know well enough imo):

Mesmer

• Continum Split (F5): elites cant be affected by this skill (no doble elite).

This skill its unlocked as a minor adept trait, but its more powerfull than any
grandmaster mayor trait on any of the mesmers trait lines. Also its not
compensated by a weaker chronomancer trait line, in fact the trait line its stronger
than any other mesmer traitline without continuum split.

The power of continum split comes from: return to health, stamina, conditions and
buffs ; plus it allow you to do doble bursts and use as much skills as apropiate in this
space of time, this includes elite.

It costs illusions to mantain it longer and the enemy can target the time rift or hit it
with aoe/cleave, however the convenience of doble burst, skills, reset and doble
elite make it way to strong.

I will put the power of the doble elite here between 30-50% of the skills power. And
the apropiate power that it requires as a minor adept trait needs to be comparable
as 15-20% its actual power, so nerfing it to 50-70% will not be enough, but its a start.

• Chronophantasma: Make it have a 5 secs inner cold down and only aplicate on one phantasm (the last in been casted).

Chrono phantasma has two main points: Phantoms can be shattered twice and they
can be forced to atack faster with a shatter , this timed properly can mean you have
an extra burst power or you can lure, with the first phantoms sets of atacks + the
shatter, the dodges and defense of your enemy to hit him with the phantoms.

Its usual counters are : destroying the phantoms before the shatter and after the
shatter when they are stunned or not yet connecting the atack (theres a very small
window for this so its mainly done with previusly casted aoe).

The end result between pros and contras its that even with the counter
chronophantasma its stronger than other grandmasters mayor trait contraparts in
any other trait line.

Making it have a 5 secs recharge rate make it more difficult to mantain too many
illusions and also it reduce the burst potential of the trait, since you will need to time
your phantoms separetly to make them use the trait always, this also reduce the
extra dps it generate.

• Echo of memory: Reduce the blocking time of echo of memory to 1 secs but mantain the dejavu one in 1.5 secs or 1.25 secs for echo of memory and 1.25 secs for Deja Vu. Aditionally make its cold down go to 32 secs as base.

This skill allow chronomancer to have a lot more capping potential and defensive
power, its usual counter its not to hit the mesmer when blocking so that he/she dont
get Deja Vu, dodging after the end of the block so that it not cast the phantom and
using unblockable skills.

However the extra defensive potential it have its too much, thats why reducing the
block duration at the start will make it more balanced. Deja Vu its okay because its a
punitive skill, the only time it can be questionable would be in case of AI, for this i
put the alternative to 1 and 1/4 secs for Echo of Memory and Deja Vu.
And since its not enough agregate a small prolongation in the cd.

This three are the main chronomancer points that make it way stronger than core mesmer imo.

• Well of eternity: Final heal reduced by 25% to allies.

Well of eternity has a good compensation of time and self heals rewarded
considering its casting time and cold down. However its risky because it needs you
to stay on the well to get the final heal, that can make you not mobile enough, burst
material, aoe material or just strategically knocked out of the well.

This its farily compensated with condition removal to you and allies. However it also
heals allies so its a litle stronger than other mesmers heals.

Why make elite and core on par if ANet don’t want to lose the only reason pvp players have to buy the game/expansion?

I think one of the main things that makes HoT specs more powerful is the special class abilities connected to traitlines (at least for some classes).

For example, Guard gets a massive virtue upgrade for taking the DH line, Ranger gets a whole new skill bar, and Necro gets an upgraded shroud and powerful melee abilities. If those abilities were made baseline and the vanilla trees altered a bit to synergize with them core and HoT specs would be balanced, or at least more balanced.

What they have done is to fundamentally change the classes rather than expand the choices available to players to build their class.

Silv.9207:

Why make elite and core on par if ANet don’t want to lose the only reason pvp players have to buy the game/expansion?

People would still want to buy the expansion to have alternative playstyles. Buying the expansion would be like getting 9 new classes with all new build options, but you aren’t left in the dust if you DON’T have those traits.

For instance, if they nerfed all elite specs, you would still need your elite spec to play support as a druid, as your other lines aren’t as well focused on that. Most of the elite specs tried to open up NEW capabilities for the class, but that doesn’t mean they need to be STRONGER.

Only ele really made a spec that was “more of what you already do, just slightly different.”

Yasha.5963:

I think one of the main things that makes HoT specs more powerful is the special class abilities connected to traitlines (at least for some classes).

For example, Guard gets a massive virtue upgrade for taking the DH line, Ranger gets a whole new skill bar, and Necro gets an upgraded shroud and powerful melee abilities. If those abilities were made baseline and the vanilla trees altered a bit to synergize with them core and HoT specs would be balanced, or at least more balanced.

What they have done is to fundamentally change the classes rather than expand the choices available to players to build their class.

I actually think the necro and guard one is a GOOD design, as they both simply replace something already there. The power-level of the alternatives offered in these cases just needs to be toned down to match CORE. Ranger doesn’t have to give up anything to get CA form, so it is just a straight-up buff. Tempest, Chrono, Herald, Scrapper, Druid, Berserker, and Daredevil all get straight-up buffs added.

I think they really should:
1. Nerf elite spec lines quite a bit
2. Buff core profession-specific lines (like arcana, beastmastery, illusions, etc.)
3. Make those prof. specific lines an “elite” line, along with skills tied to it (arcane skills, ranger shouts, etc.)

Chronophantasma wouldn’t be a problem if shield 4 didn’t produce 2 phantasms. As it stands, when combined with Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma, Shield 4 contributes 6 illusions overall from one weapon skill before any other illusion generating skill has been used. It has double the potential illusion generation of all the Mesmer off-hand weapons. I would much rather see the phantasm from De Ja Vu removed and Chronophantasma left as it is.

I got a better solution: Split Core and Elite.

Core gets their own versions of all the traits while elite gets their version of the core’s traits.

This way, Core specs can be balanced separately from Elite specs. Elite specs can be nerfed without hurting the core specs.

just split the game in general. no more complaining about how hot is op pls nerf.

The problem with chronomancer is that the theme of the spec is “a better mesmer” you get faster CDs, you get clones back when you shatter, you get a multi block weapon + AoE stun and quickness out the kitten . And what do you give up? Nothing, literally nothing.

At least with Druid you give up a crap load of damage by taking it over something else

BlackBeard.2873:

Silv.9207:

Why make elite and core on par if ANet don’t want to lose the only reason pvp players have to buy the game/expansion?

People would still want to buy the expansion to have alternative playstyles. Buying the expansion would be like getting 9 new classes with all new build options, but you aren’t left in the dust if you DON’T have those traits.

For instance, if they nerfed all elite specs, you would still need your elite spec to play support as a druid, as your other lines aren’t as well focused on that. Most of the elite specs tried to open up NEW capabilities for the class, but that doesn’t mean they need to be STRONGER.

Only ele really made a spec that was “more of what you already do, just slightly different.”

Yasha.5963:

I think one of the main things that makes HoT specs more powerful is the special class abilities connected to traitlines (at least for some classes).

For example, Guard gets a massive virtue upgrade for taking the DH line, Ranger gets a whole new skill bar, and Necro gets an upgraded shroud and powerful melee abilities. If those abilities were made baseline and the vanilla trees altered a bit to synergize with them core and HoT specs would be balanced, or at least more balanced.

What they have done is to fundamentally change the classes rather than expand the choices available to players to build their class.

I actually think the necro and guard one is a GOOD design, as they both simply replace something already there. The power-level of the alternatives offered in these cases just needs to be toned down to match CORE. Ranger doesn’t have to give up anything to get CA form, so it is just a straight-up buff. Tempest, Chrono, Herald, Scrapper, Druid, Berserker, and Daredevil all get straight-up buffs added.

I think they really should:
1. Nerf elite spec lines quite a bit
2. Buff core profession-specific lines (like arcana, beastmastery, illusions, etc.)
3. Make those prof. specific lines an “elite” line, along with skills tied to it (arcane skills, ranger shouts, etc.)

I agree that “nerfing” the HoT specs and buffing core would be great, but the problem is baked into the design of HoT. The point I am getting at is that new abilities and weapons are tied to the new HoT trait lines, which is totally different to how the core specs work and one big reason why they seem OP.

I also think the whole concept of only being able to equip a certain weapon/access OP skillls if you have that trait line is kind of weird. Seems like something thought up in a pve factory.