Guild Wars 2

instead of application order, would that improve condition mechanics?

things went backwards when it was decided that condition removal became RNG instead of “last in first out” when the game was released 3 years ago.

personally, i prefer to set my own condition removal priorities.
at the moment, i think burning needs to be the first to go every kitten time.
followed by immobilize i guess.

GW2 is a condition game. so why pvp is boring and not popular. do you see the top team on GW2? always is org, tcg and abj.

I would be nice if it was LIFO. It hasn’t been LIFO for a long time. Before the June 23 patch, it was a semi-fixed removal order based on any particular skill.

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

x indigo x.6981:

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

No kitten Sherlock.

But what if the most DAMAGING condition would be removed first. Sure, that 4 second of blind on ya is pesky but that 6 stacks of burning is a more serious threat. Despite blind being the most recent condition, condition removal will remove the biggest threat.

Would that put conditions in a better spot?

_

I personally think it does, however, it would be even BETTER if you put conditions into impairing and damaging categories. Instead of just removing any condition, you can limit traits to target certain conditions types.

That will allow threatening conditions to be removed easier BUT limit the amount of raw condition removal.

This is a good idea.
Some skills already remove specific conditions (like root, or root/snare/freeze). Sometime this is a secondary effect of a skill which have its own use.
If Anet don’t want to give more global condi purge, they could impart specific condi purge all around skills as secondary usages (even replace some old condi purge by several news), and this would also make the gameplay more intelligent !

being able to chose condition removal (And boon removal) priority would be nice tho

but this sounds like rocket science already…not gonna put any hope on dat

It would just remove counterplay and screw over anyone hoping to deal meaningful damage with specific conditions. If the condition user can manage to apply enough cover conditions to stop you cleansing their burst, why should they be punished with next to no dps because you clicked a cleanse skill too late? That’s the whole point of cover conditions, to punish people who don’t cleanse in time. And if people could choose which conditions were prioritized, it’d obviously be burns at the top with Immob and maybe Torment/Confusion up there. Condition and boon removal functions in a specific way that rewards active playstyle and fast actions.

That type of change would just reward sloppy play and punish people who try to use cover conditions/protect their damage by not only removing their main source of damage, but also putting the source on cd for next to no impact.

Totally didn’t see this thread when I created my priority conditions one >.<

Best case scenario? Give us a choice to handle our own conditions in Options menu.

Three choices: Imparing Effects, Damage, Last In.

Necrotize.2974:

It would just remove counterplay and screw over anyone hoping to deal meaningful damage with specific conditions. If the condition user can manage to apply enough cover conditions to stop you cleansing their burst, why should they be punished with next to no dps because you clicked a cleanse skill too late? That’s the whole point of cover conditions, to punish people who don’t cleanse in time. And if people could choose which conditions were prioritized, it’d obviously be burns at the top with Immob and maybe Torment/Confusion up there. Condition and boon removal functions in a specific way that rewards active playstyle and fast actions.

That type of change would just reward sloppy play and punish people who try to use cover conditions/protect their damage by not only removing their main source of damage, but also putting the source on cd for next to no impact.

I’ve thought about that but classes like Burn Guard don’t really have a choice. The only form of counter play in terms of condi coverages we have is Scepter#3 applying immobolize and invulnerability. Possibly Doom and Geomancy but Geo can proc our F1 burns too. Even Scepter#3 can proc F1! There is very, very little counter play via condi coverages that we can work with.

x indigo x.6981:

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

Which was wrong for probably a year or more before the June 23rd patch.

Exedore.6320:

x indigo x.6981:

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

Which was wrong for probably a year or more before the June 23rd patch.

The mechanics of conditions are always backwards.

• In order to do a lot of damage, you have to stack a damaging condition.
• The damaging condition can be removed in a single cleanse.
• So you must cover the damaging condition
• But when you try to do more damage, the cleanse order will be the condition you are trying to stack.
• So just throw as much as you can and hope for the best.
• WTF

Archaon.9524:

being able to chose condition removal (And boon removal) priority would be nice tho

but this sounds like rocket science already…not gonna put any hope on dat

They could just have a list in pvp right under the trait lines or something where you number conditions in order of removal precedence. Not really that much rocket surgery (get it?) involved in that I dnt think.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

things went backwards when it was decided that condition removal became RNG instead of “last in first out” when the game was released 3 years ago.

personally, i prefer to set my own condition removal priorities.
at the moment, i think burning needs to be the first to go every kitten time.
followed by immobilize i guess.

It was definitely never “last-in, first-out”. I wish it was, it’s a sensible and predictable system. Instead, each cleansing skill/trait worked differently. In my experience, most worked from an internal priority list (eg “Immobilise gets removed first, burning second” etc), but it’s possible that there were some that worked on last-in/first-out.

x indigo x.6981:

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

I’m not sure the wiki is correct: I seem to remember when the devs were going through the specialisation changes a couple weeks before the big June patch they said that removal (as well as conversion) would be changed to be random, to make all cleansing skills consistent.

• First the health circle should show ‘prospective damage’. You can’t visually see how much you are being damage with little numbers in stacks. It should appear visually in the health circle. For example, the future damage will appear colored pink/magenta like degeneration from bleeding or hexes in GW1, replacing the red. If your whole health circle goes pink, that means the conditions you have on you will take you down if you don’t remove them.
• Then, condition removals should give priority to the condition that would have a bigger prospective damage. Not merely the one doing more DPS, not just the one that’s going to last more, the one that will color a bigger chunk of the health bar based on DPS and duration.
• Additionally, healing from regeneration and other heal over time effects would also colorize the bar, making the ‘prospective healing’ look yellow if the total net regen/degen is positive. So if your regeneration can outheal conditions on you, you’ll see yellow chunk in your HP circle, and if regeneration can’t cope with it (which will obviously be most of the time), you’ll see the pink chunk showing how much health you are going to lose.

Pink and yellow and two decent colors that won’t be confused with red too much by colorblind, based on some colorblind palettes I’ve googled. But they are just examples, they could be other colors.

These two changes will make sure people can actually see how much damage they are taking from conditions, and help them deal better with it by prioritizing the most troublesome condition first, without RNG nonsense.

The people that are suggesting you get to pick are really funny. That would make most conditions builds useless because damage would always get removed first. Last in first out would give ample play and counterplay to both sides, and would be the best option imo. Anything where you could prioritize damaging conditions would be broken.

zapv.8051:

The people that are suggesting you get to pick are really funny. That would make most conditions builds useless because damage would always get removed first. Last in first out would give ample play and counterplay to both sides, and would be the best option imo. Anything where you could prioritize damaging conditions would be broken.

In my opinion skills should offer temporary condition resistance that weakens the effects of specified conditions rather than pure removal.

As I stated before, the mechanics of conditions are fundamentally broken, depending on what the opponent is using can mean either an easy victory or an impossible uphill battle. There really is no middle ground between the two because the prowess of conditions comes from only 1 stat, meaning that conditions must be balanced AGAINST power, ferocity and precision.

On top of that balance act you have order of removal, in order to kill your opponent you must constantly apply your most powerful condition which means it is FIRST to be cleansed.

There is issue number 3, cleansing is instant and powerful. If you have a condition that deals 5k damage over time getting cleansed before the first tick, that basically equals a 5k BLOCK.

Because of those three mechanics, conditions and power can never truly be balanced for all classes.

So you got to work with what you got I suppose. I personally not a fan of working with a broken mechanic.

Necrotize.2974:

It would just remove counterplay and screw over anyone hoping to deal meaningful damage with specific conditions. If the condition user can manage to apply enough cover conditions to stop you cleansing their burst, why should they be punished with next to no dps because you clicked a cleanse skill too late? That’s the whole point of cover conditions, to punish people who don’t cleanse in time. And if people could choose which conditions were prioritized, it’d obviously be burns at the top with Immob and maybe Torment/Confusion up there. Condition and boon removal functions in a specific way that rewards active playstyle and fast actions.

That type of change would just reward sloppy play and punish people who try to use cover conditions/protect their damage by not only removing their main source of damage, but also putting the source on cd for next to no impact.

What counter play? Like all top players, they’re aren’t going to cleanse 1 or 2 stack of burning. There’s a threshold before an intelligent cleanse but sometimes the amount of conditions that can cover before the cleanse happens too quick.

But at the end of the day, direct burst and condi burst are two different animals. A power burst put almost all there points in power/prec/fer and and condi build use condi, tough, vit/prec. You really can’t compare the two because there are so many factors.

But when condi can burst damage is almost as close to pure power build while retaining defensive mechanism, there’s a problem. How to fix it? I don’t know since it has been going on for years and the dev don’t know how to deal with it. I don’t believe for a sec they know how to deal with it. Maybe when the game shuts down. I’m just waiting for a better game that I like that has pvp then I’m going to leave this POS game.

Gabriell.4856:

Necrotize.2974:

It would just remove counterplay and screw over anyone hoping to deal meaningful damage with specific conditions. If the condition user can manage to apply enough cover conditions to stop you cleansing their burst, why should they be punished with next to no dps because you clicked a cleanse skill too late? That’s the whole point of cover conditions, to punish people who don’t cleanse in time. And if people could choose which conditions were prioritized, it’d obviously be burns at the top with Immob and maybe Torment/Confusion up there. Condition and boon removal functions in a specific way that rewards active playstyle and fast actions.

That type of change would just reward sloppy play and punish people who try to use cover conditions/protect their damage by not only removing their main source of damage, but also putting the source on cd for next to no impact.

What counter play? Like all top players, they’re aren’t going to cleanse 1 or 2 stack of burning. There’s a threshold before an intelligent cleanse but sometimes the amount of conditions that can cover before the cleanse happens too quick.

But at the end of the day, direct burst and condi burst are two different animals. A power burst put almost all there points in power/prec/fer and and condi build use condi, tough, vit/prec. You really can’t compare the two because there are so many factors.

But when condi can burst damage is almost as close to pure power build while retaining defensive mechanism, there’s a problem. How to fix it? I don’t know since it has been going on for years and the dev don’t know how to deal with it. I don’t believe for a sec they know how to deal with it. Maybe when the game shuts down. I’m just waiting for a better game that I like that has pvp then I’m going to leave this POS game.

Remove the Weakness OR make Weakness effect the condition damage , When i have Weakness and Protection in same time , direct damage just like a joke.

MithranArkanere.8957:

• First the health circle should show ‘prospective damage’. You can’t visually see how much you are being damage with little numbers in stacks. It should appear visually in the health circle. For example, the future damage will appear colored pink/magenta like degeneration from bleeding or hexes in GW1, replacing the red. If your whole health circle goes pink, that means the conditions you have on you will take you down if you don’t remove them.
• Then, condition removals should give priority to the condition that would have a bigger prospective damage. Not merely the one doing more DPS, not just the one that’s going to last more, the one that will color a bigger chunk of the health bar based on DPS and duration.
• Additionally, healing from regeneration and other heal over time effects would also colorize the bar, making the ‘prospective healing’ look yellow if the total net regen/degen is positive. So if your regeneration can outheal conditions on you, you’ll see yellow chunk in your HP circle, and if regeneration can’t cope with it (which will obviously be most of the time), you’ll see the pink chunk showing how much health you are going to lose.
  <snip>

I like these suggestions very much! The regen/degen pips on the GW1 health bar were very helpful, and colouring a section of the GW2 health orb by the amount you’re about to lose or gain on the next tick would do the same job. The only problem with it is the fact that conditions and heals don’t all tick simultaneously in GW2. They all tick in 1" increments, sure, but in 1" increments from the moment they were applied, not on the 1" mark. Each stack has its own internal clock, which doesn’t tick by the match clock or the server clock, but in 1" increments from the moment it was applied on, which could be at 0.5 or 0.25 or 0.965 seconds after the “whole” second by match clock.

Not sure how they would do the colouring so that it’s accurate, since those 10 stacks of bleed might tick on the whole second, those 9 stacks of burning might tick 0.25" after the bleeds. It would have to be an approximate instead: aggregate the damage of all conditions on on the whole second mark, and colour that much of the health bar pink, irrespective of the fact that part of that damage might tick before the next whole second mark.

Not sure I agree with the “remove the most damage” suggestion though. Imagine if you get jumped by a thief, who applies blind, immobilise, and 1 stack of poison on you. By your suggestion, every cleanse would remove the poison, but we know that the immobilise is the more important condition to remove here, right? I think that, instead, we should have more targeted, conditional cleanses, like the elementalist’s Stop, drop, and roll which targets specific conditions. I actually think that trait is a little narrow, what I’d rather see is something that targets a specific condition and also does something else (eg. “remove Immobilise and two other conditions”, so it basically prioritises a specific condition but can be use as a generic cleanse as well). Or maybe something that has a bonus effect if you use it at the right time. For example, “remove 3 conditions. If a damaging condition is removed, heal yourself for X.” Or maybe “remove burning and 1 other condition. If burning is removed, remove an additional condition” so it’s a 1-condi cleanse if you don’t have burning on you, but a 3-condi cleanse if you do. Obviously in cases like the last two examples, the targeted condition would need to be prioritised if it’s the precondition for the bonus effect.

That’s the problem with having so many different conditions.

There’s skills that will remove particular conditions, but when they are generic, what you want to remove first is what will get you killed even if you remove immobilize and run away.

Because someone like a pistol thief can just pop another immobilize anyways.

Another possible way to give some breathing time would be not always removing the conditions that do the most damage, but adding a healing over time to counter DPS conditions, or a short resistance.

MithranArkanere.8957:

There’s skills that will remove particular conditions, but when they are generic, what you want to remove first is what will get you killed even if you remove immobilize and run away.

Well, that depends on what you’re playing, and what you’re opponent is playing. That’s why thieves, with their low health pools, have so many specific cleanses that target damaging conditions, and people actually take them. OTOH, as a necro, I’m really more worried about the immobilise, because I can get burst down fast if I can’t dodge. So I think the way forwards is to add specialisation to existing cleanses, eg turning a “remove 2 conditions” cleanse into “remove X and one other condition”.

If cleansing conditions gets a priority for certain conditions I also also want to be able to configure aegis to only block certain atacks.