(edited by Zagerus.8675)
If Warrior is nerfed, will still play it
Will it be equivalent to the amount of salt that gets thrown at revs and necros?
Sanity is for the weak minded.
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The actual warrior is not so much better than the old warrior you played (I’m not an expert but not too much has changed since the seasons you wrote about, unless for the Resistance), the main changes was the nerf of revenant sustain (expecially stability) and the amount of dps builds in this game running lesser stability than before, plus eventually the amount of unblockable hits you can do killing classes like dh, engi and mesmer easier than anyone else (expecially dh).
The warrior hasn’t changed too much but obtained the perfect enviroment to shine. As the necromancer in the past, that was not overpowered but only find an enviroment where was able to shine (until engi and mesmer discovered that a single moa was able to kill a necromancer, or thieves just find that we had not a single defensive skill, making sushi of us all the time…).
The difference between necromancer and warrior is that the warrior have lesser counters and counter more builds/classes than the necromancer had. Also moa is lesser impactful on a warrior than on a necro. A necro lose his access to shroud (and sometimes loses also all his life force, an old bug I think) and without any active/passive defence out of the shroud as a meat shield, he was doomed to eat all the enemy burst and die. A warrior can still flee and when turn back in his form active a defensive skill (shield, endure pain, berserker stance) or just flee away with the Gs skills to safety.
The warrior have the higher burst in this meta, a lot of defensive skills, one of the best movement (movement save more than defensive skills), 15 seconds of condition immunity, can clean 3 conditions every 2.5 seconds, can spam stability and have a lot of Hard CC. Basicly is immune to everything while able to move, stun, hit and kill.
Is the best combination of everything.
Is not the only class with all this amount of offensive and defensive things, also engineers and druids can have huge damage, movement (even stealth spam) and survavibility, but they need more skills to be played correctly at high levels or are underestimated (if i had to nerf a class I should chose Druid, but hopefully there’s not so much players able to play it at high levels).
The main problem of the warrior that make him “OP” (still if is killable if you have the chance to wait for 10 seconds, until he turn back to be killable if use all his skills) is the Resistance for 15 seconds while charging of so much the Burst Bar (don’t remember the name). That boon is a huge exageration, like the ele Diamond Skin.
A nerf to Resistance to make you immune to Damaging Conditions only would make the warrior in line with all the other classes. Weakness, Cripple, Immobilize, Chill, fear Vulnerability,………. all things that do a LOT during a fight.
Nerfing Resistance (also making eles able to obtain it back to DS if it got nerfed) will grant to every build the chance to fight him with soft/high CC and debilitating conditions that actually don’t affect him at all.
That also will not be a so huge nerf for the warrior if you look at the amount of condi clean he got (3 condi every 2.5 seconds make him the best class to fight condi classes by defaoult), also because he’s able to remove immobilize with every single Leap skills.
But also will grant a sort of way to counter him with weakness, cripple, immobilize and fear (fear still susceptible to stability, ofcourse)
Do that and I’ll consider the Warrior balanced in everything.
if warrior gets nerfed into oblivions (like people want) ill switch to a support banner warrior or phalanx strength and give everyone a beautiful time.
im bad at sarcasm
warrior will always be a fun class to play. I mean, you can kick people for gods sakes.
Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE
(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)
The actual warrior is not so much better than the old warrior you played (I’m not an expert but not too much has changed since the seasons you wrote about, unless for the Resistance), the main changes was the nerf of revenant sustain (expecially stability) and the amount of dps builds in this game running lesser stability than before, plus eventually the amount of unblockable hits you can do killing classes like dh, engi and mesmer easier than anyone else (expecially dh).
The warrior hasn’t changed too much but obtained the perfect enviroment to shine. As the necromancer in the past, that was not overpowered but only find an enviroment where was able to shine (until engi and mesmer discovered that a single moa was able to kill a necromancer, or thieves just find that we had not a single defensive skill, making sushi of us all the time…).
The difference between necromancer and warrior is that the warrior have lesser counters and counter more builds/classes than the necromancer had. Also moa is lesser impactful on a warrior than on a necro. A necro lose his access to shroud (and sometimes loses also all his life force, an old bug I think) and without any active/passive defence out of the shroud as a meat shield, he was doomed to eat all the enemy burst and die. A warrior can still flee and when turn back in his form active a defensive skill (shield, endure pain, berserker stance) or just flee away with the Gs skills to safety.
The warrior have the higher burst in this meta, a lot of defensive skills, one of the best movement (movement save more than defensive skills), 15 seconds of condition immunity, can clean 3 conditions every 2.5 seconds, can spam stability and have a lot of Hard CC. Basicly is immune to everything while able to move, stun, hit and kill.
Is the best combination of everything.Is not the only class with all this amount of offensive and defensive things, also engineers and druids can have huge damage, movement (even stealth spam) and survavibility, but they need more skills to be played correctly at high levels or are underestimated (if i had to nerf a class I should chose Druid, but hopefully there’s not so much players able to play it at high levels).
The main problem of the warrior that make him “OP” (still if is killable if you have the chance to wait for 10 seconds, until he turn back to be killable if use all his skills) is the Resistance for 15 seconds while charging of so much the Burst Bar (don’t remember the name). That boon is a huge exageration, like the ele Diamond Skin.
A nerf to Resistance to make you immune to Damaging Conditions only would make the warrior in line with all the other classes. Weakness, Cripple, Immobilize, Chill, fear Vulnerability,………. all things that do a LOT during a fight.
Nerfing Resistance (also making eles able to obtain it back to DS if it got nerfed) will grant to every build the chance to fight him with soft/high CC and debilitating conditions that actually don’t affect him at all.
That also will not be a so huge nerf for the warrior if you look at the amount of condi clean he got (3 condi every 2.5 seconds make him the best class to fight condi classes by defaoult), also because he’s able to remove immobilize with every single Leap skills.
But also will grant a sort of way to counter him with weakness, cripple, immobilize and fear (fear still susceptible to stability, ofcourse)Do that and I’ll consider the Warrior balanced in everything.
This guy…..
“nerf resistance on warrior and nerf druid”…anything left to counter necro condi spam?
This guy…..
“nerf resistance on warrior and nerf druid”…anything left to counter necro condi spam?
Yes, the counter to necro condi spam is Anet nerfing condi spamming. Condi warrior is also a culprit of condi spamming because Skull Grinder.
Also, nerfing resistance isn’t going to ruin warriors against condition specs because they can still cleanse 3 conditions when a primal burst skill hits. This is one reason why I want to see Berserk Mode changed to still work based on the three adrenaline stages. What would need to be done is changing Berserk Mode to double adrenaline from all sources. This way it takes a bit more time and effort to generate enough adrenaline for a full primal burst, but then a warrior can also use stage 1 or 2 primal bursts too. Part of what makes warrior damage OP is because they can easily get 10 adrenaline, use a powerful and then easily get that 10 adrenaline back before the CD is up.
Changes to other utilities can also help warriors deal with condis if Cleansing Ire gets nerfed along with Berserker Stance. Right now, those two things along with Defy Pain and Endure Pain are all mandatory on warrior and they carry because they’re so powerful, but also necessary because the other utilities are awful. Shouts are useless, banners are useless, etc. These 4 main things I mentioned are needed for survival and no other utilities provide the survival necessary in a meta with insane burst and insane sustain.
Everything being OP is not the same as balance. It looks like balance, but it’s not.
Even at one of the worst times for warrior during the HoT launch when it was garbage, I got my last few wings needed for legendary using the gimmicky gunflame build lol.
It was like they didn’t expect me to be that stupid and bring a glassy warrior, but I was able to 1-2 shot DHs and stuff lmao
“nerf resistance on warrior and nerf druid”…anything left to counter necro condi spam?
DH? Thief? They just blow out a necro easier than any other class. (I tried with my DH, there’s nothing more fun than find a necro on your way)
And also i don’t ask to remove Resistance, only to make it don’t grant a Total immunity to conditions. Fight an actual warrior is like fight against an old CeleEle with Diamond Skin, but with stability spam, damage immunity and can literally burst you down in 5 seconds.
Make it protect you from all the Damaging conditions will already grant you to kill more or less every condition build of this game, just granting them a little more counterplay (counting that a war can clean 3 condis every 2.5 seconds is not even a big change), you’ll be protected by Burn, Bleed, Confusion, Torment and Poison, isn’t enough?
For the Druid th things I will do is reduce the dps of the LB and the HoT pets by a little (15% of Lb Rapid Fire and Barrage and 15% of Bristleback F2 and Spike Barrage and Smokescale Smoke assault) and increase the ICD of the Ancient Seeds Druid Trait byt no lesser than 10 seconds (immobilize the enemy for 5 seconds every 20 seconds adding 5 bleed is already an OP trait) and all that only in sPvP. That will make them lesser able to burst you down while spamming immobilize and be able to just heal and stealth all the time.
The Ranger was strong and in a really good spot but not a OP, but after HoT with the incredible high damage of the pets had obtained too much burst potential for a healer elite specializzation and a bunker build, expecially because also when the druid is incapacitated or flee the pet continue to hit you and inflict high damage.
A little nerf to the druid dps, imobilize spam and resistance will grant them to kill every necromancer and every other class they find on they’re way as they actually do, but granting more counterplay when needed.
Anyway… there’s a single class in this game that find hard to kill a necromancer?
They don’t need to be countered by anyone, they had hard counters before this season and they’re obtaining more and more. Actually i don’t know a single class hard countered by a necromancer. If they finally become able to kill someone in 1v1 there will be not a real problem at all, expecially if they become a counter for classes considerated OP by everyone that know how good they are at high level, still having different classes that hard counter them. As they become able to kill cele-ele in the pre-HoT era, granting them a reason to be accepted by teams and granting them a reason to be played wil not be bad.
What does make you think that necro should not be nerfed also like the rest?
…No..don’t tell me the 1000 reasons why necro should not be nerfed accordingly to your stronger biased opinion, don’t tell me because I can show 2000 reasons why necro should be nerfed.
I have strong interest..a very strong interest in seeing all condi specs brought down considerably, I have 10k ways to deal with power builds…but there is barely a handful of ways to deal with the massive aoe condi spam introduced with HoT and most times than not it’s actually impossible to kill these OP condi specs
This is just a clash of biased opinions, no matter what one may say you’d never agree in seeing necro nerfed as you consider it quit weak….being your main…a biased opinion
What does make you think that necro should not be nerfed also like the rest?
…No..don’t tell me the 1000 reasons why necro should not be nerfed accordingly to your stronger biased opinion, don’t tell me because I can show 2000 reasons why necro should be nerfed.
You dislike necro because you’re an ele main and ele is the 1 class in the game that necro can take 1v1s against.
Nerfing Warrior will make thieves and Mesmers stronger, and both of those classes are much harder counters for necro than warrior is.
I have 10k ways to deal with power builds…but there is barely a handful of ways to deal with the massive aoe condi spam introduced with HoT
Which is a problem with you and your build, not the entire condi playstyle in general.
most times than not it’s actually impossible to kill these OP condi specs
Of the 9 classes in the game, Mesmer is the only class where the condi build is tankier than the power build.
Condi Nec is squishier than Power nec
Condi Warrior is squisher than power warrior.
Condi Ranger is total glass.
Condi thief is a joke.
Condi Engi is total glass.
Burn Guardian is total glass.
Condi Rev is total glass.
Condi ele is total glass.
You’ve been pushing the “super tanky condi builds” argument for ages. It’s still wrong. This isn’t WvW there are no Dire stats here.
Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Thief and mesmer stronger counters than warriors?…such outrageous lie
No matter how you try to turn it, you’re simply trying to get rid of the last hardcounters necro has; although the word “hardcounter” I’d say it’s a little out of contest here.
I’d rather say that warrior and ranger offer anti-necro tactics whose application requires the same level of skill needed to play the common " I sit on my marks and spamm staff 1, you get close I F1 5-3 and cheese from there" strategy.
It takes a great thief and mesmer to counter a below average necro sitting his kitten on a bunch of unblockable marks which is considered a viable and skillful tactic by GW2 standards
Ofc you want to see warriors and rangers nerfed…they can easily neutralise your tactics with the same level of effort
What does make you think that necro should not be nerfed also like the rest?
…No..don’t tell me the 1000 reasons why necro should not be nerfed accordingly to your stronger biased opinion, don’t tell me because I can show 2000 reasons why necro should be nerfed.You dislike necro because you’re an ele main and ele is the 1 class in the game that necro can take 1v1s against.
Nerfing Warrior will make thieves and Mesmers stronger, and both of those classes are much harder counters for necro than warrior is.
I have 10k ways to deal with power builds…but there is barely a handful of ways to deal with the massive aoe condi spam introduced with HoT
Which is a problem with you and your build, not the entire condi playstyle in general.
most times than not it’s actually impossible to kill these OP condi specs
Of the 9 classes in the game, Mesmer is the only class where the condi build is tankier than the power build.
Condi Nec is squishier than Power nec
Condi Warrior is squisher than power warrior.
Condi Ranger is total glass.
Condi thief is a joke.
Condi Engi is total glass.
Burn Guardian is total glass.
Condi Rev is total glass.
Condi ele is total glass.You’ve been pushing the “super tanky condi builds” argument for ages. It’s still wrong. This isn’t WvW there are no Dire stats here.
Condi necro > power necro
condi warrior > power war (pm Call Me Warrior)
burn guard glass? (pm Wee Guard)
Thief and mesmer stronger counters than warriors?…such outrageous lie
Warrior doesn’t have the means to consistently protect it’s boons, and it doesn’t have enough cover boons to protect it’s stability. The fact that warrior pulses stability while in Berserk means that necros have excellent interrupt capability in the forum of fear from stab corrupt.
A warrior will generally win a 1v1 against a necro, but it’s not a shutout and the necro can take wins. The only time a necro is completely shutout by a warrior is if the necro goes into the fight with 0 life force.
Mesmer and Thieves are worse because they don’t care about boon corrupts, they have substantial evade and blind access to shrug off necro offensive pressure, and the interrupts to guarantee that necro never gets off any major casts.
I’d rather say that warrior and ranger offer anti-necro tactics whose application requires the same level of skill needed to play the common " I sit on my marks and spamm staff 1, you get close I F1 5-3 and cheese from there" strategy.
LB ranger is certainly nasty to necro because of Ancient Seeds screwing necros hard.
Spamming staff 1? Do you even know what staff 1 skill even is?
RS 5-4 is a highly telegraphed combination that can be avoided easily. Landing it usually requires landing other CC before going into shroud, and even then most classes will just break and dodge if you try that combo
It takes a great thief and mesmer to counter a below average necro sitting his kitten on a bunch of unblockable marks which is considered a viable and skillful tactic by GW2 standards
I don’t think you are playing at a very high level is sitting on marks is valid strat. A Mesmer will clear marks just by spawning a clone. A thief will dodge straight through and not care a bit.
Moreover the damage from marks isn’t even high. Staff is a utility weapon used for kiting melee and LF gain. It’s offensively trash.
Condi necro > power necro
condi warrior > power war (pm Call Me Warrior)
burn guard glass? (pm Wee Guard)
All three of those are still squishier than their classes power counterpart, which was the point being made. Power Warrior and Power guard are objectively better than their condi variants. Condi Necro vs Power necro depends heavily on team comp and opposing team comp.
Sanity is for the weak minded.
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(edited by Crinn.7864)
Supreme, what’s your skill level? I don’t think you got a high level of play in this game. Not if I read what you’re writing about necro and his counters.
First of all, the necro can barely kill an ele and is the only class he can kill. A good ele will just kite away and don’t grant the kill, or kill the necromancer waiting for his CD and turning back to kill him.
Thief counter the necromancer since ever and a good thief can just dodge or ignore the necromancer marks because are easy to see and they’re damage/effect is really poor. The staff is an utility weapon good only to grant few life force, inflict fear and send conditions back, nothing more. Also the Reaper combo RS5+RS4 need a total of 4,5 seconds of execution. If you find someone bad enough to eat all this damage for free you’re facing a real idi*t that don’t know what is doing and joined a match for error.
A thief can just spam two teleport skill to remove the fear, a blind to block a random huge hit and the enemy necro is dead with two backstab and the AA, with no pain, no troubles.
About mesmers, they just need to stay at range and spam clones, nothing more. The reaper is melee, then if they keep the distance and the necro is dead (they have teleport and stealth to do that, not a problem at all against a class with no mobility).
Nerf a class that can’t kill anyone in 1v1, have a large amount of counters (thief, mesmer, warrior, ranger, guardian) and can play properly only if fully supported by and ele/engi that heal and ress him all the time isn’t truly the priority of this game…
You’re also talking about all these conditions that kills you. Actually the only class playing conditions is the mesmer. Necro and warrior chose power more frequently to be able to fight better in soloQ because the condi version is easier to counter (a condi damage warrior will never win against a direct damage warrior, for example) and is harder to play in a casual team.
I actually enjoy to play around with my guardian and I have only two skills to remove conditions: smite and F2. And that’s enough to play and don’t get killed easy. basicly there’s no more condition damage classes in this meta. Just look to metabattle and you’ll see that the “meta” builds don’t use conditions, unless for the mesmer, and not all mesmers play condi. A large amount of players use metabattle to play with classes they don’t perfectly know then the amount of metabattle builds you’ll find in game is really high.
I think that you’re only one of this players that don’t want to die against a condi class because “a condi class don’t have to kill anyone with condi, they’re bunker builds!”. But now condition is lesser bunkerish than direct damage, there’s more bunker/half-bunker amulets for direct damage than for condition damage.
Also, there’s more ways to counter condition damage than direct damage, expecially with a lot of (also AoE) condi clean skills (ele can spam condi clean all the time just granting regen to allies and diamond skin grant him an half immunity to conditions)
Whenever there is clash of opinions…the famous " what skill level are you" talk will always follow.
I find it compelling that players in this game firmly believe that a badge can qualify them or not from having an opinion, because in the end that’s all we have here on the forums: a bunch of very opinionated statements
Is this what you’re looking for?
http://imgur.com/a/POLgZ
Reached platinum for the sake of it…stopped soon after, decayed down to bronze as I stopped playing ranked
Legendary? Yes easily reachable, I would have only required to win 100 or so matches, playing in this exact same way:
http://imgur.com/a/yBLtO
Carrying people to victory like a boss..I could have but….nah, I don’t find playing pvp in this game that fun, to put myself through such an ordeal
I play pvp for the sake of it, not for a title or badge or armor…and definitely not for the rights to talk on the forum like you guys believe.
I assume that you lot play pvp , just to get a shiny badge next to your name, then come on the forum, enforcing your opinion as an absolute truth..I find it very amusing.
Now, going back to the original argument:
-There are several ways to deal with power specs and most of these solutions do not require you to have specific stats, traitlines or utilities, leaving you player with loads of possible build options
-Against condi specs , you need to have those specific stats ( high HP for ex) to avoid being killed instantly by a condi burst. You must have those specific traitlines, those specific utilities and what more
The build diversity goes out of the godkitten window because you must add a trillion condi kittening clear to your build to avoid being cheesed out by a random “nob”
You talk about ele: you could use a fire/air/tempest vs power builds and actually kill something..but you can’t, because you need water /earth, only way to survive all the cheese condi bs flying your way
You talk about rangers : you could drop celestial avatar and pick the staff trait to create some nice daze/taunt burst specs but you bloody can’t as you need to clear the condi cheese coming at you every 8s, unblockable BS that trigger 100 different condi traits with a single hit .
The build diversity in this game is gravely affected by overtuned condition dmg and I will never stop complaining about this, no until we get a definite solution
Whenever there is clash of opinions…the famous " what skill level are you" talk will always follow.
It’s a question asked with good cause. A player’s perception of the meta is dictated by the level they play at, and because of this understanding the level that a player is playing at is necessary to understanding why a player is making the statements they make.
When you make commentary like this:
…. the same level of skill needed to play the common " I sit on my marks and spamm staff 1, you get close I F1 5-3 and cheese from there" strategy….
It says a lot since camping staff is a extremely common behavior for low-MMR necros. At high level staff isn’t used in such a way because
1) Necro staff AA is pathetic.
2) Staff in general has terrible dps and is a utility weapon.
A player regardless of skill level has a right to voice their opinion, but when said opinion revolves around a total misunderstanding about how other classes work, you’re going to get called on it.
Sanity is for the weak minded.
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