Guild Wars 2

gating on fractals(almost removed them), the unlocking process for guild missions > motivation to keep playing :P

Edit: Every1 can join ur <<outdoor raid-activity>> , so its not competition of guilds vs guilds :P

In response to Follidus:

The way I remember it, was that Gasmask’s team beat you, and Java went ape kitten and decided to call the team on “Hiatus”. You guys kept trying to change comps to find one that could counter the new comps you were facing, but weren’t successful due to only 2 players on the team actually being GOOD (one of them was a stationary truck that had no gamesense, no map awareness, and no ability to play any other class).

You can talk about how Elementalists aren’t op or how people didn’t know how to play against them… but every single time I’ve faced you while you were running a balanced comp, you would get destroyed. It happened with PZ before they ran the cheese, and it happened in TP NA one too many times.

The rangers were not easy targets, because while having no stun breakers, they do have access to an INSANE amount of dodges… Land one stun, and you have either of the eles, or the guardian peeling for him and that nullifies it. Also, while targetting the rangers, it would allow the eles to freely counter pressure with no problems. If you knew anything, you would have known that the strat most players went for was to go for either Powerr or Skovex (mostly Powerr) in most cases, since the eles are the ones that are able to apply the most pressure.

PZ has consistently made the game of Guild Wars —> Build Wars. They could never rely on their mechanical skill and always had to rely on Bugs/Cheesy comps in order to win. Every time they start losing, they switch up their comp in order to compensate for their obvious lack of skill. PZ was a plague to the PvP community… making the game unenjoyable to everyone around.

Also, I like how you use the word “bombarding”.
And tell me what I made up about you or PZ. Everything I stated was fact and truth. A lot of people just don’t want to tell you off because you’re a nice guy, but there’s no need to call me a liar.

Davinci is right, ele’s were OP.
Can’t deny it.

hmm seems many of you just don’t get it. Cater to the average masses and you get the best return. Cater to the 1% and your potential return is tiny. The game has to be fun for the casual player so that you can convert them to hardcore players. Once the casual group is gone then the game is dead. I have play enough FPS to have seen this happen many times. If the developer fixes what the hardcore players say is a problem but the casual say otherwise pretty soon the casuals are gone. Hardcore players lurk in every causal player but the has to be fun to hook them.

@ those who think mastery is the reward you are in the wrong game. Please go take up competitive chess. Hundreds of years of study, thousands of books and millions of players. Chess will be here in 10 years. GW2 most likely will not, more then likely GW3 will have replaced it.

DevilsGlare.7658:

Davinci is right, ele’s were OP.
Can’t deny it.

“WERE” Op? Nope. ARE Op? Yup.

The pressure an ele can put on far point as well as being useful in so many of the additional objectives on maps (orb running, killing trebs, Stealing bosses or killing them) make it crazily Op. You can send 2 to close point. Chase the ele off but he wont die. Will heal to full and then come back as soon as it is open again. If it is never open then well gl fighting 5vs 4 on the rest of the map.

They must have some problems programming chilled/cripple effecting rtl otherwise they would of done it by now.

And ele changes the whole game. Trying to play without one isnt fun. I have done it many times and it really sucks.

Shadowkx.2738:

hmm seems many of you just don’t get it. Cater to the average masses and you get the best return. Cater to the 1% and your potential return is tiny. The game has to be fun for the casual player so that you can convert them to hardcore players. Once the casual group is gone then the game is dead. I have play enough FPS to have seen this happen many times. If the developer fixes what the hardcore players say is a problem but the casual say otherwise pretty soon the casuals are gone. Hardcore players lurk in every causal player but the has to be fun to hook them.

@ those who think mastery is the reward you are in the wrong game. Please go take up competitive chess. Hundreds of years of study, thousands of books and millions of players. Chess will be here in 10 years. GW2 most likely will not, more then likely GW3 will have replaced it.

okay look, IF the thread were about X dev hours spent working on Y part of the game, then all of these economic analogies would be useful.

but it isn’t, so they aren’t.

Davinci’s post is not about “catering” to anyone, it is about spheres of influence and spheres of aptitude.

my friend, a lawyer, put it best to me once:

If your sink is leaking, call a plumber.
If your car is broken, call a mechanic.
If you’re gonna die, for kitten’s sake call a lawyer and don’t buy a legal will kit.

The point of this anecdote is that each portion of this game has its own sphere of influence, pve, wvw, spvp, tpvp, crafting, even between and within professions, to name just a few.

Davinci’s point, regardless of agreeance or delivery, is that someone who farms materials to craft from open world and dungeons (a plumber) is not as likely to be as informative about eve as a commander.

Ergo, within pvp, hotjoin, solo queue, spvp, and tpvp all have different spheres of aptitude and influence.

anyone reading more in to it than that is just biting the troll bait.

sorry i play an engineer and nobody will let me into their groups.

nakoda.4213:

Davinci’s point, regardless of agreeance or delivery, is that someone who farms materials to craft from open world and dungeons (a plumber) is not as likely to be as informative about eve as a commander.

Nooooo.
He never said anything remotely close to that. He did not say “If all you do is PvE”. He specifically said “If all you do is hotjoins” ergo: PvP I do not deem worthy. It’s just like when all the elitists talk down on WvW because “wvw is not pvp”. It’s rediculous. In both hotjoins and wvw players are fighting and killing other players. The only difference is that it’s not the OP’s preferred game-mode (tourney’s) therefore he is saying that they are irrelevant and unworthy of having an opinion on PVP balance.
PVP balance.
Hotjoins are PVP
WvW are PVP
Tournies are PVP

Since generalized opinions are going to be tossed out like facts there’s less PVP in tournies because they are more like Player vs Circles instead of Player vs Player combat, just stand in a circle harder than the other guy. In hotjoins most people ignore those circles and just fight other players, PvP. In dueling players fight other players, PvP. In WvW players fight other players, PvP (sometimes more skill-intensive than other modes, other times less depending which side of the outnumbering forces you are on).

I like tournies, I like hotjoin, I love dueling and I adore being a solo or small group roamer in WvW. They are ALL PvP and worthy of consideration in matters concerning PvP, regardless of peoples biases towards specific modes. Unpopular opinion here, sure, but here’s another one: Seeing as how tournies are the least popular game-mode (by FAR) and has the smallest population with interest in them at all the reality is that they should receive the least consideration in PvP balance and concerns, except for the pesky fact that the devs and the 30 diehard tourny fans out there have dreams of ‘e-sport’ and winning some prize money at some point.

I think you need to brush up on the difference between allegory and analogy.

sentiment and context often carry much more meaning than words, which is to say that comparing the aptitude and influence of hotjoin to tourneys is no different than comparing the aptitude and influence of pve to pvp.

Honestly the only thing I hate about hotjoin only players is they think EVERYTHING is viable in terms of builds?

Oh you went full zerker and use conditions? Uh, yeah sure thats viable. Oh you think pure burst builds will survive? Yup, sure do according to me. Stunbreakers and condition removal? Why? So I can escape burst? My zerker build can obviously tank that
-This is what I see in build suggestion post by hotjoin players and its just ridiculous with necro’s.

Also, wvw and spvp are two different modes. Some people forget that and think that the skills/traits and such just “transfer on over” and no, they don’t.

Davinci.8027:

The amount of sarcasm in this thread is exceeding expectations.
Nerds can only express themselves via sarcasm because deep down they don’t feel as though their opinions really have any validation.
MISSTALK, WRONG CHAT

And the troll of the month goes to…

This guy.

You have to balance for /both/ competitive /and/ casual players for a game to have longevity.

Without competitive players, you lack a core audience for your content. You also lack ongoing examples of high-level play, which makes it difficult to convert casual players into competitive players.

Without casual players, you lose the majority of your audience. Your competitive community will naturally atrophy over time as people lose interest or otherwise have to stop playing, but without a casual player base you have no source from which to draw additional competitive talent, resulting in a long-term reduction in the competitive community as well.

The game needs to be balanced enough at the casual level that players don’t become instantly frustrated and go back to PvE, but it also needs to be vibrant enough at the competitive level for highly skilled players to consistently have interesting, dynamic matches.

Consequently, everyone’s input is useful. Is X Profession wrecking low-level games but useless at the tournament level? Then they need some sort of adjustment to even them out. Not a nerf, an adjustment. “Learn to play” issues are unavoidable, to some extent, so it’s ok for a given profession to be a bit too good early and balanced later as long as it isn’t exerting so much frustration that it pushes people out of the game. But insofar as it’s possible, ArenaNet needs to make the game as balanced as possible for as many levels of play as possible.

nakoda.4213:

I think you need to brush up on the difference between allegory and analogy.

sentiment and context often carry much more meaning than words, which is to say that comparing the aptitude and influence of hotjoin to tourneys is no different than comparing the aptitude and influence of pve to pvp.

Semantics, the last refuge of the unsustainable argument.

In regards to your earlier post, plenty of people have explained why it is necessary to consider the casual hot join players in any balance discussion. The discussion of economics is relevant because there is a limited resource involved, namely developer hours. I get it, you don’t want the casual hot join players influencing the balance discussion, yet without them there is no long term competitive game. However, I am not saying the competitive player should not have a voice as well. There need to be a dialog that involves both groups.

Or perhaps, I should heed your advice to avoid the trolls.

semantics, the scapegoat of undergraduates without the erudition to reconcile cultural context and literal definition.

for the record, I am a hotjoin player who knows he is going to newb it up if he ever gets time to dedicate to tpvp.

I never claimed that dialogue was unnecessary, but that someone who has never done something is likely not the best resource for a creative discussion on improvements. rather, and i thought this obvious enough not to state, the reasons having kept them away is their sphere of aptitude, to return to my previous lexicon. in that regard, the OP is correct.

the reason trolls thrive is because they push buttons that have equal weight in opposing directions. mixed meta fors the win.

mbh.8301:

If you mean to tell me that 1 round tournaments with no entry fee aren’t casual then I’d prefer you stop posting here.

They’re not!

It goes like this: player launches random join on 1 round tourney, waits around 15-20 minutes for the thing to start, at least 1 guy in the roster was bored and left. 4 random begin an absolutely ridiculous match vs a 5 guildmates premade.

The worst thing is some guilds are actually playing such lame builds, you can sometimes almost win… Woohooo!!!

And before you answer: no, having to find a group on a vocal isn’t casual. It’s certainly more efficient, funnier even, but it is NOT casual play.

Here’s a hardcore gamer. Here’s your game on hardcore gamers. silence

Here’s a casual gamer. Here’s your game on casual gamers. *CHA-CHING!"

It sucks, but it’s the truth. Are you hardcore players in your free tPvP matches with your free armor skins spending anything in the gem store? If you are, your opinion matters.

Grackleflint.4956:

Here’s a hardcore gamer. Here’s your game on hardcore gamers. silence

Here’s a casual gamer. Here’s your game on casual gamers. *CHA-CHING!"

It sucks, but it’s the truth. Are you hardcore players in your free tPvP matches with your free armor skins spending anything in the gem store? If you are, your opinion matters.

There’s nothing in the gem store for PvPers other than some skins, bag slots, and character slots. I would’ve been happy paying a nominal monthly fee so everyone pays their fair share and both pvp and pve can get the same level of attention from the devs.

Ezrael.6859:

Anyone who has done more than 100 tournament games will realize that mesmers and thieves are far from OP. Step out of HotJoin, and you will realize and understand what classes truly flourish and which don’t.

I’m with you there all the way.

Shame A-net disagrees with us.

SuperHaze.4210:

Grackleflint.4956:

Here’s a hardcore gamer. Here’s your game on hardcore gamers. silence

Here’s a casual gamer. Here’s your game on casual gamers. *CHA-CHING!"

It sucks, but it’s the truth. Are you hardcore players in your free tPvP matches with your free armor skins spending anything in the gem store? If you are, your opinion matters.

There’s nothing in the gem store for PvPers other than some skins, bag slots, and character slots. I would’ve been happy paying a nominal monthly fee so everyone pays their fair share and both pvp and pve can get the same level of attention from the devs.

I couldn’t agree more. Also, it is possible to balance them separately—have abilities work differently in different modes. That would be ideal, but they are running a skeleton crew at Anet dev-wise.