Guild Wars 2

I’m wondering, cause there’s some classes out there who don’t use weapon swaps and just spam 1-2 skills.

Examples: Crossfire, Pistol Whip, 100 Blades.

Weapon swapping should be encouraged, but why would they bother if all they use is 1-2 keys and it is still viable?

Yea, yea, let people play the way they want to play, but for sPvP, where do you draw the line between useful/broken/balanced?

How can it be considered competitive if there’s no “skill” involved?

Stop playing hot join. I promise you this is rarely an issue in tPvP. As an elementalist, I love playing against teams with these kind of builds because it’s very rare I will actually die to them.

Wow….crossfire getting up there with PW and 100B..

That’s epic.

Rangers do more than just spam crossfire. You only notice it when you get killed because its up there at the top when you get killed. Same with 100b or PW.

However, you need ‘set up’ skills, or terrain advantage, and other damaging skills to pull off these epic wonderous 1* button skills…

If you outlive these skills and have a heal ready for you, then the ranger dies fast, the warrior dies fast, and the thief slips away to come back at you 30s later.

Can’t really spam 100B either, since it has a CD.

nldixon.8514:

Can’t really spam 100B either, since it has a CD.

Implying a 6 sec CD (traited) means it’s not spammable…. oh you…

I cant even remember the last time I was killed by a 100B warrior or PW thief.

Have come across maybe 1 quickness crossfire ranger. Caught me off guard the first time as it was so rare, however from then on it wasn’t so bad to deal with.

Oddly enough what I’ve been finding annoying recently is turret/rifle engineer. Dat CC man.

I use a 100b spec, and I assure you that I am not “only using 100b and/or frenzy+bullrush”. I imagine if somebody is literally only using these skills that they aren’t very good.

To respond to your point as to whether or not weapon swapping should be encouraged, it certainly is for me as I’m swapping quite often actually. I use a greatsword and have a rifle for my second weapon. I generally start with my rifle, because that is my personal preference. It’s worked well for me thus far and I will continue to play the way I like to.

I also can’t help but find the whole “it takes no skill” argument completely wrong. Let’s at least clarify on what the word “skill” actually means. That word means having the ability to do something well. Isn’t it safe to assume here that these players you are posting about actually are playing quite well? Lets elaborate a bit further now. Who’s the unskilled player in this situation, the player that can actually win by, as you’ve over-exaggerated, spamming 1-2 skills or the player who is unable to dodge said skills properly? Aren’t these players dodging / avoiding your attacks? Doesn’t that in itself take skill?

No matter what way you choose to look at it, the game does take some form of skill, whether you choose to agree with it or not. However, if you do disagree please enlighten me as to how with some relevant information.

How do you compare an x skill that is spammable but at the same time just as effective as weapon swapping and going through a whole rotation of skills 1-5?

As a Mesmer, I use Greatsword and Sword/Pistol. I really wish the CD on weapon swapping was shorter than 10 seconds; that’s how often I weapon swap.

I am in no way trying to imply that those who do weapon swap and use more than 3 skills are more skillful than those who spam x skill, but why does it have to be just as effective? That is the point I’m trying to make.

Merciless.5349:

I am in no way trying to imply that those who do weapon swap and use more than 3 skills are more skillful than those who spam x skill, but why does it have to be just as effective? That is the point I’m trying to make.

You aren’t?

Merciless.5349:

How can it be considered competitive if there’s no “skill” involved?

You said it right in your first post that these builds take no skill.

Are you also suggesting that mesmers do not have any overpowered and/or “no skill” abilities?

i have no problem with 100 blades becuse its a channeled stationary ability on a cooldown

I am VERY upset with crossfire, pistol whip and , “hartsekorz!!” even after the nerf, they can still gain haste and plow me under on any class other than my shield +defensive guardian.

Nkrdbl.8160:

Merciless.5349:

I am in no way trying to imply that those who do weapon swap and use more than 3 skills are more skillful than those who spam x skill, but why does it have to be just as effective? That is the point I’m trying to make.

You aren’t?

Merciless.5349:

How can it be considered competitive if there’s no “skill” involved?

You said it right in your first post that these builds take no skill.

Are you also suggesting that mesmers do not have any overpowered and/or “no skill” abilities?

Of course there’s more skill involved in knowing when to weapon swap and knowing what skills to use vs spamming an x skill, but that doesn’t make the USER more skillful. Anybody can weapon swap and go through 1-5 and hope for the best.

My point with that statement is; Yes, it does not take skill to spam an x skill. Yes, it does take skill knowing when and how to spam that x skill. But spamming a skill does not encourage competition and/or does not make a match worth watching/enjoying as an E-sport.

Please mention to me a Mesmer skill that is spammable that is effective as Pistol Whip, 100 Blades, or Crossfire.

And this is an issue of spam skills effectiveness vs using weapon swap and all skills.

Sezu.8564:

nldixon.8514:

Can’t really spam 100B either, since it has a CD.

Implying a 6 sec CD (traited) means it’s not spammable…. oh you…

You can’t spam something with a cool down since spamming implies using the same ability over and over consecutively within a very short time frame.

Besides, if you’re doing it right you only need to use 100B once anyway.

i think what he’s saying is that spamming 1 button should not be so effective that it is actually viable even for bad/fotm players. As a ranger you can honestly get by with a bleed spec spamming 1 on shortbow. If the target has condition removal on CD they will melt in a matter of seconds simply by using 1 attack.

Yes, thank you, Sprawl. That’s what I was trying to explain.

nldixon.8514:

You can’t spam something with a cool down since spamming implies using the same ability over and over consecutively within a very short time frame.

Besides, if you’re doing it right you only need to use 100B once anyway.

^ This (mostly). Also, even if you “do it right”, defensively spec’d players won’t die in 1 use of 100b, hence the use of other skills and weapon swapping.

Sprawl.3891:

i think what he’s saying is that spamming 1 button should not be so effective that it is actually viable even for bad/fotm players. As a ranger you can honestly get by with a bleed spec spamming 1 on shortbow. If the target has condition removal on CD they will melt in a matter of seconds simply by using 1 attack.

This explains the ranger aspect of this post but I still disagree with the 100b portion.

Merciless.5349:

Yes, thank you, Sprawl. That’s what I was trying to explain.

I do see your point here Merciless, at least with a mentioned spammable ranger skill. However, I do not see your reasoning for including 100b in your post.

Also to respond to your question earlier regarding mentioning a spammable mesmer skill, that wasn’t the point I was implying. I was asking you if you felt that their were any mesmer skills that are either overpowered and/or take “no skill”.

Using 100 Blades was probably not such a great example of a spammable skill, but I think it was a mental thing for me, cause I swear, that’s almost all I see from Warriors.

I’ll mention Moa as being too long of a time for the transformation, and I’ll mention Teleport in using it to bring the repair kit for the treb, and thus is considered to be OP by the majority of the gaming population. I agree with the majority.

But again, this is a discussion about spammable skills effectiveness vs those who weapon swap and use more skills from their toolbar. That is what I am trying to discuss.

BishopX.6453:

i have no problem with 100 blades becuse its a channeled stationary ability on a cooldown

I am VERY upset with crossfire, pistol whip and , “hartsekorz!!” even after the nerf, they can still gain haste and plow me under on any class other than my shield +defensive guardian.

lawl, I guarentee that crossfire is not an effective method to killing a guardian. between your shields, your blocks, and rataliation, a ranger would kill themselves first.

No…its the traps I place under your feet that are killing you. Since you silly ‘bunker’ guardians stand still for me because you are protecting the node. It’s so cute watching the epic sad face of guardians who think I am an easy kill.

It gets my knickers all frilly and stuff.

While I will defend crossfire spam, I do so because if that is all the ranger is doing you are:
a) not paying attention
b) letting the ranger get behind you
c) ranger is so bad he will be dead soon after QZ wears off, if not before.

The SB has more than crossfire on it making it the prefered weapon of choice, not because of QZ/crossfire spam, but because it has an evade, a daze/stun, a cripple and bleeds on flanking, and poison. All these make this weapon highly desireable, and the ranger would be ‘stupid’ to limit himself to just crossfire. Crossfire, like 100blades or pistol whip is just taking advantage of a combo. You will read it in your ‘list of things that killed me’ because it is a burst ability, and quite frankly, its near one of our only burst abilities.

@Nkrdbl The only overpowered abilities mesmers have are Moa, Portal used with repair kit, and Time Warp. What makes mesmers “overpowered” is that they simply have more abilities they can chain together compared to other classes, and creating confusion for the attacker as to which is the real mesmer (only a serious problem for inexperienced players). No one ability itself is overpowered and can instagib players like 12k Backstab + 6k steal or hasted 100B/PW can; most everything a mesmer does requires setup and forethought.

Cheap tactics like one knockdown/immobilize/daze followed by using your instagib spell do not count as “setup”.

The penalty for having your stun breaker/condition clear on cooldown should be ~50-70% of your life bar, not instant death.

Merciless.5349:

I’m wondering, cause there’s some classes out there who don’t use weapon swaps and just spam 1-2 skills.

Examples: Crossfire, Pistol Whip, 100 Blades.

Weapon swapping should be encouraged, but why would they bother if all they use is 1-2 keys and it is still viable?

Yea, yea, let people play the way they want to play, but for sPvP, where do you draw the line between useful/broken/balanced?

How can it be considered competitive if there’s no “skill” involved?

as for pistol whip, its not 1 skill…its aloways 2

youll never land pistol whip by itself

so you precast it and then use steal/iniltrator strike

you pair it with immobilizes like devourers venom

so its almost always like 3+7, 3+8, 3+F1, 3+2 etc (the bindings for the abilities)

Wolfe.3097:

as for pistol whip, its not 1 skill…its aloways 2

youll never land pistol whip by itself

so you precast it and then use steal/iniltrator strike

you pair it with immobilizes like devourers venom

so its almost always like 3+7, 3+8, 3+F1, 3+2 etc (the bindings for the abilities)

i don’t know if it is only me or maybe it is a widespread misunderstanding, or lag :P , but after i cast pistol whip i never can use infiltrator’s strike to move, only steal works with precast.
can you explain me how to precast PW and infiltrator’s?

The problem is with Quickness IMO, all these builds use it.

Problem most people have with HB, HS, PW, and Crossfire is that they require significantly less effort to be effective than many other specs. Take an Elementalist – with a power build; it requires upwards of 10 key presses to do 13k~ damage, while a HB Warrior only need to Bull’s Rush, Frenzy, and HB to that, and in far less time. Necros have similar issues, and especially since so many of their builds are condition-reliant, and more people are taking condition removal with them, stuff like Crossfire that easily maintains 13 stacks of bleed really makes the Necro seem lackluster.

This combined with the lack of Quickness on every class but Rangers, Warriors, and Thieves throws balance out of whack. They already do a ton of damage, but when they start doing it in half the time it becomes an issue for many classes. Some classes just don’t have access to the tools (or having the tools kittens them too severely in some other way) to deal with these professions. Quickness is really the common denominator between the 3 “problem” classes.

telling me thata necro who can efectively drop 3different kinds of conditions extrememly fast (and i am understating this) and ranges only effective condition is bleeds, makes me laugh as you mention condition removal, if you let me as a ranger stack 10+stacks of bleeds on you and do not use condition removal to revove all 20 stacks of bleeds you are wrong…as a matter of fact i prefer condition builds in most classes i play but find them too easily countered by condition removal.

I have switched from conditions to power based play and while i still can stack those bleeds on you if you dont dodge or simply turn and face me then one ability that removes 1 condition completely removes ALL of them not jsut 5 stacks not jsut 10 stacks but all of the bleeds that i have placed on you…

therefore claiming crossfire is somehow overpowered because i can use quickness and stack one type of condition on you thats just silly, even power based stacking for pure glass cannon damage with no survivability crossfire spam cannot hit the burst warriors or thieves can and it is easily removed(conditions) or mitigated(toughness/dodging)

i do not have a stun or immobilze to use with that ability to force you to eat the entire burst such as bull rush or immobilize poisons i have a 1.25 sec daze if i am flanking you that basically counts for 1 seconds since of travel time of the projectiles.

if all a ranger is doing is spamming that ability then that is because you are letting him..a bad ranger will still keep spamming it a good ranger will use the rest of his shortbow abilities and then swap to axe or sword to really put the hurt on you.

if rangers did not have quickness we would have no burst nor viable option to be support/bunker so we would be below elementalists and necros in terms of support and below everything in terms of killing power.

because i have a pet most of my ability damage is below average compared to everything else, due to crappy pet AI and surivability and broken f2 ability usage coupled with uselessness of spirits, a ranger has to rely on abilities like quickening zephyr to make up for this lack of burst.

you talk about a lack of effort involved in using my autoattack, then you are not seeing the rest of my abilities that i use on a regular basis for every person i fight. that means they hit so low as to avoid your notice or i actually killed you using only crossfire, and ill be honest here if you just stand there and let me hit you with it i am sure as heck going to do it.

if you remove quickness from all classes you will find that no one will bring rangers to tournaments and hardly anyone will run rangers at all (of course from what i see thats already the case) where as warriors and thieves will be invited because they dont need quickness to burst anyone, it just makes it easier.

My name is Cheshire.. I play a Ranger and I.. I use Crossfire.

Most PW Thieves are countered by Immob, cripple, chill, daze, stun, knockdown, knockback or invul. Every class has access to at LEAST 3 of these but I’m pretty sure every class has access to all of them and can have them all in one build. 100b Warrior is also the countered by these same methods. Line of sight and range could also counter these but since they are melee abilities it’s assumed that even a below average player has enough sense to be in melee range of you.

Crossfire spamming Rangers are countered by range, line of sight, reflect, knockdown, knockback, stun, daze and invul. Again, access to all of these by pretty much every class and two of them you don’t even have to spec into—it should come with common PvP tactics. I didn’t list Immob, cripple or chill because Crossfire is a ranged attack and not necessarily hard countered by these but they do help you access others.

Any of the listed professions/classes above spamming the said “burst/op/spammable” abilities and ONLY those abilities is bad and if you die to them, you’re worse and need to L2P. Fact. That being said, these abilities appear at the top of your death breakdown as highest damage done because that’s their intended purpose—to do excessive amounts of damage to you above everything else in their arsenal. Sometimes this requires very little setup/preparation but most times against good and sometimes even decent players it requires a setup.

By setup, what I mean is a stun, daze, knockdown or knockback. However, that is only one of the required steps to ensure that the target takes the most damage possible. You also have to take into consideration “Do they have endurance to dodge?” “Do they have a hard counter up?” “Will their class mechanic counter it? Have they used it yet?” “Have they blown a few utility skills yet?”

These are all things people aren’t considering when they face these enemies. Good players aren’t just spamming these abilities; they are baiting you and forcing you into the state they need you be in before they unload that “OP-one button-to-win” skill that you’re complaining about. Sometimes teammates do this for us, other times it has to be done by the player himself.

At least this is how I have been doing it since I rolled my Ranger and it works out very well in some cases. Better players may not have to do quite as much as me to get that kill, but I can bet you decent players aren’t going around just spamming their #1 or #2 skill.

I hope OP and friends are not serious about Crossfire. I don’t want to sound like one of those haters here on the board, but you have obviously never played shortbow ranger before.
Ranger on shortbow can be played either with traps or with a bleed/power hybrid build. The latter is arguably easier to play than the first but nowhere near to “just spam 1-2 skills” because the bleed of Crossfire is only applied if you hit the enemy from the side or back. This means the ranger has to reposition himself permanently and make use of all his available slows to make the damage viable.
The second reason why no ranger in the game will only be hitting his shortbow auto-attack is that he won’t live long without using his CC skills and evasive moves. This definitely also includes a lot of weapon switches because the shortbow’s skills are definitely not enough for that purpose.

Long story short, please don’t make ranger look bad for no reason.

hmmm PvP as a “skill” based game…. this has new meaning for me now. Like… some classes only need “a skill”…

seriously though, it smacks of poor design IMO. Some of the AAs in game are just far too effective and mostly because there’s just nothing else worth using or building around with those particular classes.

The people that keep bringing up AA skills are still in the mindset that autoattacks are meant to be weak and useless skills that you use when everything else has been put on CD. Why does this HAVE to be the case?

I’ve been playing a Ranger in PvE and PvP since release and for the greater part of the time since release I’m usually the only Ranger in any given PvP match. Not so much in the last couple weeks. I have been seeing shortbow Rangers (and only shortbow Rangers) out the wazoo.

It’s because it’s a stupidly easy spec. Positioning yourself is a joke, since any immobilize freezes your target in the direction they’re facing. If Rangers had some kind of immobilize that had a (potentially) long duration they could just unload a Sharpening Stone+QZ barrage in someone’s backside and have a 25 stack of bleeds in just a few seconds. Hrm… Anybody know of any abilities like that?

A mesmer complaining about warriors and rangers, now I’ve seen it all. Thief I can agree with but I do not think it’s overpowered, but 100b takes no skill? lol. Try playing 100b against a competent team, not in hotjoin, and tell me how many times you land it. It takes a lot of skill to play GS warrior, yes I said it, against good players of course. A skill that roots the warrior in place, frenzy causes them to take 50% more damage, and is countered by stability, invulnerability, or a dodge. if you die to it you got outplayed, hard.

Btw good GS warriors use more than just 100b but I don’t feel this thread deserves an in depth explanation of all that, more of a l2p issue, those players are pressing more than 1 button.

Ship.3612:

A mesmer complaining about warriors and rangers, now I’ve seen it all. Thief I can agree with but I do not think it’s overpowered, but 100b takes no skill? lol. Try playing 100b against a competent team, not in hotjoin, and tell me how many times you land it. It takes a lot of skill to play GS warrior, yes I said it, against good players of course. A skill that roots the warrior in place, frenzy causes them to take 50% more damage, and is countered by stability, invulnerability, or a dodge. if you die to it you got outplayed, hard.

Btw good GS warriors use more than just 100b but I don’t feel this thread deserves an in depth explanation of all that, more of a l2p issue, those players are pressing more than 1 button.

How about you focus on the topic instead of resorting to class warfare? You’re making the thread devolve. You have not contributed anything.

The thread is about the viability/effectiveness of spam skills vs those who weapon swap and use more than 2-3 skills.

Merciless.5349:

Ship.3612:

A mesmer complaining about warriors and rangers, now I’ve seen it all. Thief I can agree with but I do not think it’s overpowered, but 100b takes no skill? lol. Try playing 100b against a competent team, not in hotjoin, and tell me how many times you land it. It takes a lot of skill to play GS warrior, yes I said it, against good players of course. A skill that roots the warrior in place, frenzy causes them to take 50% more damage, and is countered by stability, invulnerability, or a dodge. if you die to it you got outplayed, hard.

Btw good GS warriors use more than just 100b but I don’t feel this thread deserves an in depth explanation of all that, more of a l2p issue, those players are pressing more than 1 button.

How about you focus on the topic instead of resorting to class warfare? You’re making the thread devolve. You have not contributed anything.

The thread is about the viability/effectiveness of spam skills vs those who weapon swap and use more than 2-3 skills.

You know what’s funny? I saw an axe/torch and greatsword Ranger SMOKING shortbow Rangers a few days ago. Like no contest. It was pretty funny. I’d like to know what his build was, because it was awesome.

You missed the entire point of my post then. If a player spams those skills without setup, keeping track of your dodges, stability, invulnerability skill usage etc, they will not kill you, unless you are bad. A player who uses those skills and sets them up, doing all of the above, is using skill to setup that attack. And if that attack 100-0s you, they are glass cannon, so if you counter it you can probably destroy them.

When I do run GS on my warrior I never just bulls rush 100b, I wittle them down with axe shield, make them blow their dodges/utilities etc and then 100b if the opportunity presents itself, if that isn’t “skill” then idk what is.

nldixon.8514

It’s because it’s a stupidly easy spec. Positioning yourself is a joke, since any immobilize freezes your target in the direction they’re facing. If Rangers had some kind of immobilize that had a (potentially) long duration they could just unload a Sharpening Stone+QZ barrage in someone’s backside and have a 25 stack of bleeds in just a few seconds. Hrm… Anybody know of any abilities like that?

Yeah, I know of one with a 150 second cooldown. You’re really complaining about a combo that requires 3 utility skills, can only be used every two and a half minutes, and can be countered with a single condition removal? It’s as stupidly easy to counter as it is stupidly easy to play. Where’s the problem?

only time I’m cursing Crossfire spamming Rangers is when all my cleanses and defensives abilities are on CD and that kitten is just following me around stacking his bleeds on me till I eventually fall down. Then I just /say SPAM IT!!! SPAAAAAAAMMMM ITTTTTTT!@!!!!! and respawn.

There are far worse AA builds out there than Ranger Crossfire though I won’t say which.

IMO if a class is reliant on AAs for a main source of dmg, that’s a design flaw, not a player flaw. Play a theif for an evening and you’ll quickly see why they spam certain abilities – it’s really all they have. And it basically follows with every class build you see relying on it. It’s not an intended choice, it’s just in large part all they were given to work with.

mouse.1689:

nldixon.8514

It’s because it’s a stupidly easy spec. Positioning yourself is a joke, since any immobilize freezes your target in the direction they’re facing. If Rangers had some kind of immobilize that had a (potentially) long duration they could just unload a Sharpening Stone+QZ barrage in someone’s backside and have a 25 stack of bleeds in just a few seconds. Hrm… Anybody know of any abilities like that?

Yeah, I know of one with a 150 second cooldown. You’re really complaining about a combo that requires 3 utility skills, can only be used every two and a half minutes, and can be countered with a single condition removal? It’s as stupidly easy to counter as it is stupidly easy to play. Where’s the problem?

I realize humor doesn’t translate well into text all the time, but I just stated I played a Ranger, so obviously I’m not complaining about it.

The only complaint I could even possibly come up with applies to immobilize in general and the fact that Rangers don’t have a reliable way to break out of immobilize.

There are way better builds for Rangers than shortbow. Let the FotM SB Rangers have their fun, the next OP build will be along soon enough. Or else they’ll go back to their HS/PW/DB Thieves or Mesmers.

If you’re getting wrecked by HB “spam” you are doing something wrong.

You’re just in luck, not a single one of the abilities listed involves spamming one ability. Rather, the entire fight is a preparation to set up that single ability. No, rangers do not spend the entire fight desperately mashing that 1 key. No, Thieves don’t spam their 3.

And I worry for you if you honestly get caught in “100B spam”.

I do find it humorous that people honestly consider shortbow rangers as just following the FOTM or OP. I’ve been running this build since release, and that’s news to me.

I was a running a Shortbow Ranger since a week after release, and compared to most other condition stacking builds, we have it easy. Super easy. Elementalists AAs are their most consistent condition stacking skills, but they tend to be slow, so it’s hard to maintain any sort of stack. Then their big stacker, Churning Earth, has a 4 second channel time. Try playing a condition Ele, then come back and say that Rangers don’t have it easy with their bleed stacks. The problems is not with Crossfire itself, but with Crossfire compared to other bleed-stacking skills.

I pack a ton of condition removal on my Elementalist, for instance, but Rangers still give me a little bit of trouble. I’ve yet to lose 1v1, but their ease in stacking those bleeds makes condition removal lackluster. Between Cleansing Fire, two traits to remove conditions on attunement swaps, and the condition removal on Phoenix, Rangers still have an easy time maintaining a stack of 8 bleeds. I’m not saying Crossfire is OP on it’s own, but that it’s far better than most condition builds in terms of maintaining stacks.

To insinuate that anything isn’t OP because only a few people used it before, and no one noticed doesn’t mean it isn’t OP now. And I don’t just mean Crossfire (as I said, it’s not OP), I mean anything. Pistol Whip didn’t become popular until a couple of weeks in, but then suddenly it exploded and now that people understand how powerful it is (though I’m not sure I can admit it’s OP) doesn’t mean that it wasn’t powerful before. Get it, yet?

And Rangers -do- just spam 1 to stack bleeds. Sorry. It requires little effort otherwise. Most of a SB Ranger’s effort is put into kiting, not bleed stacking, as that is entirely automated and efficient. You don’t setup Crossfire, you keep yourself alive while Crossfire does it’s work. I know, I play the kittening build, too, but at least I can admit it’s significantly better than most other condition builds.

Larynx.2453:

You’re just in luck, not a single one of the abilities listed involves spamming one ability. Rather, the entire fight is a preparation to set up that single ability. No, rangers do not spend the entire fight desperately mashing that 1 key. No, Thieves don’t spam their 3.

And I worry for you if you honestly get caught in “100B spam”.

I do find it humorous that people honestly consider shortbow rangers as just following the FOTM or OP. I’ve been running this build since release, and that’s news to me.

How do you justify spamming of a skill by “setting” it up with 2-3 skills?

Doesn’t that make the spamming skill even more ridiculous when it’s just as effective vs somebody who uses nearly all their skills and then weapon swaps because their attacks/skills on first weapon are on CD?

Animosity.5231:

And Rangers -do- just spam 1 to stack bleeds. Sorry. It requires little effort otherwise. Most of a SB Ranger’s effort is put into kiting, not bleed stacking, as that is entirely automated and efficient. You don’t setup Crossfire, you keep yourself alive while Crossfire does it’s work. I know, I play the kittening build, too, but at least I can admit it’s significantly better than most other condition builds.

You don’t need condition removal to beat a condition based Shortbow Ranger. It only requires two easy steps:

1. Face the Ranger.
2. Hold your S key until the end of the fight.

You’re welcome.

That aside, I agree it’s easier to play than a lot of other specs. But comparing it to Elementalist is unfair. Compared to Elementalist, EVERY class has it incredibly easy. Not saying they’re bad, but they require ten times the work for similar results in most cases.

Not broken, but poorly designed.

The fact that they designed some weapons (such as ranger shortbow) to have ALL the dmg in the auto attack and the other 4 abilities be utility on top of quickness (ridiculous mechanic) means you can just burst (well only way TO burst) by popping quickness and spamming the hell out of your iDmg button.

Necro’s I think are a great example of a class that HAS to rotate spells for dmg, elementalist as well, neither can just sit on auto attacks or a single skill for dmg. Elementalists have to actually set up their burst, it’s not as difficult or annoying to counter, and they don’t friggin need quickness for it, Engy as well.

They need to make these classes have more complex burst/spike that actually uses some brain power. As it is these mechanics are the DEFINITION of faceroll. I don’t care that it IS possible to counter, it’s still broken design and requires way less effort to do as opposed to counter. Mesmers sort of have this issue as well (mainly phant. build with phantasms that are too hard to kill).

I’ve played ranger and thief tons with most classes since beta, I’ve done nearly every build I can think of, I’m not biased, I don’t need to L2P. It’s my opinion that it’s poorly designed. Naturally I’m enjoying Ele/Necro more since they require more thought.

Only one button class I’ve seen are rangers, and I’ve literally never seen one who wasn’t SB. They should remove that kitten class imo until its out of alpha.

I was confused at first when I started reading this thread- crossfire OP? Rangers just use one skill? What have I been doing wrong! Usually my fingers are aching from playing the keyboard like a piano as I struggle to direct pets, lay traps, dodge, change weapons/pets etc. Now you tell me I can just press the “1” key and dominate! Please show me this build!

So like I said I was confused at first…and then I read the OP’s name. Now it all makes sense, its Merciless posting again about how his mesmer gets owned by everyone.

Oh the irony of a mesmer complaining about how easy other classes are to play, lol.

Yasha.5963:

I was confused at first when I started reading this thread- crossfire OP? Rangers just use one skill? What have I been doing wrong! Usually my fingers are aching from playing the keyboard like a piano as I struggle to direct pets, lay traps, dodge, change weapons/pets etc. Now you tell me I can just press the “1” key and dominate! Please show me this build!

So like I said I was confused at first…and then I read the OP’s name. Now it all makes sense, its Merciless posting again about how his mesmer gets owned by everyone.

Oh the irony of a mesmer complaining about how easy other classes are to play, lol.

You have never encountered anything like the rest of the community has? You have never come across a Crossfire only Ranger or a Pistol Whip only Thief?

The issue is not how to beat or counter those builds/skills (and I have beaten them :p). The issue, which, if you read all of my postings in the thread you would know, is their viability and effectiveness vs those whose “fingers are aching from playing the keyboard like a piano” to achieve same/similar results.

I am sure a Ranger would love to help you with a Crossfire build. And then you can try it out for yourself.

Merciless.5349:

Yasha.5963:

I was confused at first when I started reading this thread- crossfire OP? Rangers just use one skill? What have I been doing wrong! Usually my fingers are aching from playing the keyboard like a piano as I struggle to direct pets, lay traps, dodge, change weapons/pets etc. Now you tell me I can just press the “1” key and dominate! Please show me this build!

So like I said I was confused at first…and then I read the OP’s name. Now it all makes sense, its Merciless posting again about how his mesmer gets owned by everyone.

Oh the irony of a mesmer complaining about how easy other classes are to play, lol.

You have never encountered anything like the rest of the community has? You have never come across a Crossfire only Ranger or a Pistol Whip only Thief?

The issue is not how to beat or counter those builds/skills (and I have beaten them :p). The issue, which, if you read all of my postings in the thread you would know, is their viability and effectiveness vs those whose “fingers are aching from playing the keyboard like a piano” to achieve same/similar results.

I am sure a Ranger would love to help you with a Crossfire build. And then you can try it out for yourself.

“The rest of the community”- quite a grand statement.

I’ve certainly never seen a ranger that only uses crossfire. I have played against thieves and warriors that mistime there use of 100B/whip and pay for it. No way that a ranger just using cross fire could acheive the same result as someone who knows how to play. Same for thief and warrior.

Given the threads you have made I don’t think you really understand pvp. More pewpew and less QQ is the order of the day I think.

You know, pewpew is exactly how Crossfire spam sounds. Are you sure you don’t know what anybody here’s talking about?

And way to get personal instead of actually reading/researching builds.

You have earned credibility. Congratulations.

actually i use my shortbow as a a utility weapon most of the time my main form of damage comes from my sword, if i am getting trashed by a super high burst class then i pop protect me and dodge if its high conditions i pop my signet that puts my conditions on my pet i use the poison dodge cripple and stun from my shortbow and use crossfire till weapon swap comes off of cooldown then back to the sword its more reliable damage and has dodges built in saving endurance for crucial dodges. warhorn has hunters call which is really really good damage and i have might fury and swiftness on demand with 5 warhorn

can use either serkers amulet or soldiers depending on if you want more survival or more crit either way its a good build

if you are getting killed by xfire you are blind, slow , or …nevermind remember to dodge anything that is doing alot of damage to you you will find that OP specs are alot fewer than you think they are

Animosity.5231:

I was a running a Shortbow Ranger since a week after release, and compared to most other condition stacking builds, we have it easy. Super easy. Elementalists AAs are their most consistent condition stacking skills, but they tend to be slow, so it’s hard to maintain any sort of stack. Then their big stacker, Churning Earth, has a 4 second channel time. Try playing a condition Ele, then come back and say that Rangers don’t have it easy with their bleed stacks. The problems is not with Crossfire itself, but with Crossfire compared to other bleed-stacking skills.

I pack a ton of condition removal on my Elementalist, for instance, but Rangers still give me a little bit of trouble. I’ve yet to lose 1v1, but their ease in stacking those bleeds makes condition removal lackluster. Between Cleansing Fire, two traits to remove conditions on attunement swaps, and the condition removal on Phoenix, Rangers still have an easy time maintaining a stack of 8 bleeds. I’m not saying Crossfire is OP on it’s own, but that it’s far better than most condition builds in terms of maintaining stacks.

To insinuate that anything isn’t OP because only a few people used it before, and no one noticed doesn’t mean it isn’t OP now. And I don’t just mean Crossfire (as I said, it’s not OP), I mean anything. Pistol Whip didn’t become popular until a couple of weeks in, but then suddenly it exploded and now that people understand how powerful it is (though I’m not sure I can admit it’s OP) doesn’t mean that it wasn’t powerful before. Get it, yet?

And Rangers -do- just spam 1 to stack bleeds. Sorry. It requires little effort otherwise. Most of a SB Ranger’s effort is put into kiting, not bleed stacking, as that is entirely automated and efficient. You don’t setup Crossfire, you keep yourself alive while Crossfire does it’s work. I know, I play the kittening build, too, but at least I can admit it’s significantly better than most other condition builds.

actually stacking one condition 20 times is less efficient than stacking 3-4 different conditions. necromancers played well can do this far better. besides if you really are only using crossfire then you are missing out on alot of other really good ways to kill people i am sorry you havent found anythign to fit your playstyle better but if you want to stack conditions or use a condition build at least swap between shortbow and ax/torch so you can have more than one condition that way you cna at least hope they dont remove all your bleeds if all you are doing is staking bleeds then you will not be very successful against anyone with condi removal(most of the community)

Merciless.5349:

You have never encountered anything like the rest of the community has? You have never come across a Crossfire only Ranger or a Pistol Whip only Thief?

Seriously, you must either be trolling or a really bad player. Speaking for 99% of serious competitive players, I have never been put in danger by a ranger who only used his autoattack. If you have, please uninstall the game. If, however, you are interested in getting a better pvp player, I suggest you read the skill description of Crossfire, or even better, you roll a ranger yourself.

Merciless.5349:

The issue is not how to beat or counter those builds/skills (and I have beaten them :p). The issue, which, if you read all of my postings in the thread you would know, is their viability and effectiveness vs those whose “fingers are aching from playing the keyboard like a piano” to achieve same/similar results.

I can’t speak for the Pistol Whip thieves, but what you say is wrong for Crossfire rangers, and, from my observings and from what I’ve read, also wrong for greatsword warriors. And no, I’m not automatically being biased because I play a shortbow ranger. My pvp main is a phantasm mesmer and I’m 100% aware that’s a very easy-to-play and over the top effective build.

Merciless.5349:

I am sure a Ranger would love to help you with a Crossfire build. And then you can try it out for yourself.

Haha. You suggest other people to try out builds you obviously have no clue about. I seriously recommend you have a crack at some of the classes you haven’t played before.