Guild Wars 2

If you run an ele this is what you do:

1, Send ele to far point
2, He keeps that decapped unless they send at least 2 dps classes to kill him
3, If they do this you can win middle and near point because you outnumber them.
4, If they dont do this then you have to win a 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 at centre to basically 3 cap the whole map and win the game after 20 seconds.
5, Even if they do send people back to near to kill the ele there is no guarantee they will manage it. And even if they cap it they wont kill the ele who will just run away. Then return with his reinforcements from middle to kill those at far and 3 cap the game.

If you dont have an ele you cant do this and end result = you lose the game.

The only reason some people dont see how OP eles are is because they dont play vs good enough people. WIth matchmaking more and more people will be kept away from playing vs elite eles. But elite eles are just dominant. No other class that I fight do I feel like “wow I have literally no chance”….. except the ele. They are unkillable for me (necro) as I am too slow and their condi removal/heals too good. And yet they can kills me pretty fast and I cant do a thing about it. If I get the upper hand they just run off. Reset to max health and come back. Meanwhile I will still be on 70% health waiting for my heal to come off cooldown. Yeh its impossible…

I recommend significant nerfs to a significantly OP class that are REQUIRED to win at this game:

1, Reduce their healing in water by around 50% and 1-2 conditions
2, Raise the cd of RTL to 25 seconds

With these changes ele will still be amazing imo.

We know ele’s are getting toned down. Its probably on the same patch on the 26th (though thats speculation).

daydream.2938:

We know ele’s are getting toned down. Its probably on the same patch on the 26th (though thats speculation).

I dont think a situation where you have to use a certain class to win should be allowed to persist this long. How hard would it be just to ninja patch the ele before this time? Plus I am not holding my breath on these nerfs. Not sure Anet realise just how strong eles can be. I mean even average eles are a powerful tool for a team.

If the bunker ele is an issue, then why are you nerfing RtL? Are you forgetting that non-bunker builds actually need it so they can… you know, survive?

They just need to nerf the gimmicky water trait line, especially those two grandmaster traits. If people feel less inclined to go that deep in water, then these builds will most likely go away.

But please, ANet if you’re reading this, whatever you do, take small steps first. Harsh nerfs are never a good thing. If you’re gonna bother analyzing the metagame with these new weekly map rotations, then a massive nerf is not a good idea.

Same could be said about other classes. If u dont have mesmer u dont have portal which means the close point defender cant come middle and u get outnumbered (not to mention time warp). If u dont have guardian its alot harder to keep the middle point caped since he is the best at that + all the aoe support he does… Classes have their roles which they do very well if u take it away from them u get what?

There is no doubt that eles are too strong atm.
No wonder good teams run at least two of them and sometimes even three.
Try killing two eles that constantly heal each other meanwhile doing massive aoe damage and knockbacks constantly to everyone. If one gets low and in danger, he rides the lightning,disengage for 5seconds and comes back full health.

Razor.6392:

If the bunker ele is an issue, then why are you nerfing RtL? Are you forgetting that non-bunker builds actually need it so they can… you know, survive?

They just need to nerf the gimmicky water trait line, especially those two grandmaster traits. If people feel less inclined to go that deep in water, then these builds will most likely go away.

But please, ANet if you’re reading this, whatever you do, take small steps first. Harsh nerfs are never a good thing. If you’re gonna bother analyzing the metagame with these new weekly map rotations, then a massive nerf is not a good idea.

Pls let’s stop answering to these threads and let them die as they deserve.

Stop worrying, the roamer role is not going anywhere and neither is bunker role, either way there is to say that water line is there as part of the class mechanic, nerfing the traits won’t change the fact that water line is there to heal/support , hence the nerfs are asked only out of spite but Anet know what water is supposed to do so while it may get toned down, it’ll remain there to do what it’s supposed to do…heal.

More balanced builds are welcome and ele won’t become weaker anytime soon, on the contrary a power ele is even more dangerous, you can change the tides of battle quicker than any thief and warrior combined while still being more survivable( because those professions both run full glass cannon ).

Changes are coming nevertheless, knowing this I spent the last month trying new builds and getting away more and more from the usual 30 arcane/20 water, I discovered how some unused traits synergy beatifully with some runes and other traits, the output dmg is tremendous and while you won’t survive as your typical 0/10/0/30/30 you will dish 2x the damage, even though in a sense you become more survivable as by killing your opponent way quicker you won’t need to outlast him that long

Razor.6392:

If the bunker ele is an issue, then why are you nerfing RtL? Are you forgetting that non-bunker builds actually need it so they can… you know, survive?

They just need to nerf the gimmicky water trait line, especially those two grandmaster traits. If people feel less inclined to go that deep in water, then these builds will most likely go away.

But please, ANet if you’re reading this, whatever you do, take small steps first. Harsh nerfs are never a good thing. If you’re gonna bother analyzing the metagame with these new weekly map rotations, then a massive nerf is not a good idea.

RTL is the main culprit for the “neutralize far point” strategy most teams are using .

They don’t even need Zephyr’s boon ( so yeah, let’s go even more defensive and pick Armor of earth at 50 %) , swiftness from lightning attunement + rtl is enough to go from your base to far point EVEN BEFORE than your team arrives there to cap .

Sincerely there’s no real way to balance off the ele without damaging even those tryhards who tried to run non-gimmicky ele builds, and i’m sad of it, because i experienced it with the thief, nerf hammered hard leaving only one build decent in high end play.

The main culprit is how aNet designed those classes : it’s hard to balance off classes when the disparity in versatility with other classes is so high ( the guardian is actually the only decent class : engies were nerfed bad in beta, same for eles, while classes like thief and warrior are too simple and often ended up doing their simple work too well, like the warrior pre-burst skill/sigil of doom nerf).

People say balance is actually good, but they don’t really seem to understand how BAD balance is in this game: traits should allow great customization, proffs can use very few skills etc etc.

The customization system in this game is so simple when compared to other games ( aside LoL) that it’s RIDICOLOUS proffs have so few builds, with so many useless traits and skills.

This game, in terms of balance, won’t be good for a while, sadly.

Balance =/ equal variety.

A class can be balanced with only 1 viable spec.
A class which can be played a variety of ways can be unbalanced.

Various spec/builds are themselves individually balanced or not.
Based generally on ability to perform a function or role competitively (ie you can bring this class for that function your not forced to pick another class). -The build can hold up in top end play so its confidently not a l2p issue. Not all classes are going to be equally balanced at all roles or functions. As mentioned you cant bring any class to do everything, thief bunkers can’t perform the role as well as a guardian bunker. Guardian dps is fine but they are slower than thief so dont fit that roll of power dps as well. (generally. Guardian dps is way closer to viable than theif bunker which is just lawlz).

Its not a precise science of course. It would be nice if classes had more vareity of balanced play. Great in fact.
But its incredibly hard to buff stuff without people finding ways to combo it with what is already strong to get something OP.

ok focus on me for a second…why should we rip eles from teh fun instead of giving it to other classes.If you have to run ele forthe rtl why should we take the rtl from the ele. INSTEAD they could enhance the mobility of an other class.Engie for example could have their rifle 5 range increase,trasnsition time lowered and damage cutten to half and been give to the other abilities..
I mean seriously why take out the role of a great far point assaulter from 1 class and not just give it to more..My point is that if your problem is eles mobility and not eles survivability i think you should reconsider it.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I recommend significant nerfs to a significantly OP class that are REQUIRED to win at this game:

Funny. Just a month ago I heard that was mesmers…
Silly kids

Lordrosicky.5813:

1, Reduce their healing in water by around 50% and 1-2 conditions
2, Raise the cd of RTL to 25 seconds

With these changes ele will still be amazing imo.

Congratulations. You just forced every d/d and s/d ele that was NOT running the 10-30-30 bunker spec into running that spec as you just gutted every non-bunker ele out there.

As someone refining a 0/20/15/15/20 spec I would like to thank you for your suggestions on how to destroy even the vaguest chance of survival running a non-cookie cutter meta spec.

Lordrosicky.5813:

daydream.2938:

We know ele’s are getting toned down. Its probably on the same patch on the 26th (though thats speculation).

I dont think a situation where you have to use a certain class to win should be allowed to persist this long. How hard would it be just to ninja patch the ele before this time? Plus I am not holding my breath on these nerfs. Not sure Anet realise just how strong eles can be. I mean even average eles are a powerful tool for a team.

If you caught the recent state of the game, they know. I think the 26th isnt so very far away , assuming thats when the balance patch comes. At any rate, i wish they would relase what balance changes they want to make , so they can get feedback.
Im sure they have some idea who is worth listening to, and who isnt.

kostbabis.8791:

ok focus on me for a second…why should we rip eles from teh fun instead of giving it to other classes.If you have to run ele forthe rtl why should we take the rtl from the ele. INSTEAD they could enhance the mobility of an other class.Engie for example could have their rifle 5 range increase,trasnsition time lowered and damage cutten to half and been give to the other abilities..
I mean seriously why take out the role of a great far point assaulter from 1 class and not just give it to more..My point is that if your problem is eles mobility and not eles survivability i think you should reconsider it.

Just because if anet tones up all classes to match them with eles (Except guardians and mesmers maybe) atm all those nomore cheese eles are going to whine on forums even more…i still read posts for ppl keep saying ele it’s ok and its power it’s just a matter of skill…well i know engies 3 times more skilled than those “pro players” that can do nothing compared with them…once upon a time ppl said thief was so dam op..but i saw noone running with more than 1 thief, now 2 eles is normal and you sometimes get even 3….and do you think there’s nothing broken here? Come on guys…i know that learning to play something else instead of your cheese cutter takes effort…but don’t try to bring bs excuses to save it

Archaon.6245:

stuff

You’re a thief.
You’re a mesmer.
You’re a guard.

….

And yet you talk about CHEESE?
You’re like a friggin’ talking log of chedder dude.

You’re also kitten that eles found a spec which allowed them to survive being constantly 1-shot by your theif and your mesmer, which made your ezmode guard feel not as special as before.

Reduce backstab damage by 50% and heartseeker auto jump by the way.

Archaon.6245:

kostbabis.8791:

ok focus on me for a second…why should we rip eles from teh fun instead of giving it to other classes.If you have to run ele forthe rtl why should we take the rtl from the ele. INSTEAD they could enhance the mobility of an other class.Engie for example could have their rifle 5 range increase,trasnsition time lowered and damage cutten to half and been give to the other abilities..
I mean seriously why take out the role of a great far point assaulter from 1 class and not just give it to more..My point is that if your problem is eles mobility and not eles survivability i think you should reconsider it.

….
….
Come on guys…i know that learning to play something else instead of your cheese cutter takes effort…but don’t try to bring bs excuses to save it

How can you say that when replying at my post man..
Also 90% of the suggestions on how to nerf the op 0/10/0/30/30 build and its variations end up nerfing more the other ele builds thus forcing eles more into that spec..
I mean rtl nerf kitten ele glass more than ele bunker since you cant play hit and run no more.Ele base healing nerf kittens up more the ele glass/dps since when you stack healing power the percentage of the initial heal is less thus you are affected less by it being lower etc..
Im scared about how the game would end up if the average forum poster got the power to change stuff by will.So that you know, the devs have structured ways of inflicting changes that are based on math as well..They cant nerf everything just because it seems unfair for you to not have as much(while you run 2 times more the base health +heavy armor warrior for example)..

Braxxus.2904:

Archaon.6245:

stuff

You’re a thief.
You’re a mesmer.
You’re a guard.

….

And yet you talk about CHEESE?
You’re like a friggin’ talking log of chedder dude.

You’re also kitten that eles found a spec which allowed them to survive being constantly 1-shot by your theif and your mesmer, which made your ezmode guard feel not as special as before.

And i guess you’re coming to whine in spvp forum from wvsw…nough said..btw i already answered your “Just surviving oneshot” thing here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/What-about-the-ele-nerf/page/4#post1445270 so please stop spamming this bs all over the forum..and just for you to know after dazelock nerf i don’t play thief anymore cause mesmer brings much more support to my team than a thief…i know i know…wvsw is all bout “Yeah i killed you!!! Yeahhh i’m uber pro cuz i can oneshot nabs” Some fresh news..in tpvp noone cares if you can sometimes oneshot someone but you can’t do kitten cause you have to hide all game cause the first aoe is going to melt you in 2 secs flat…and btw, you know wvsw has different skills, gears and levels right? and nerfs would probably interest pvp skills only? So what the hell are you doing here? Stonemist is almost done…go back to your zerg, free laurels for you!

Arheundel.6451:

Razor.6392:

If the bunker ele is an issue, then why are you nerfing RtL? Are you forgetting that non-bunker builds actually need it so they can… you know, survive?

They just need to nerf the gimmicky water trait line, especially those two grandmaster traits. If people feel less inclined to go that deep in water, then these builds will most likely go away.

But please, ANet if you’re reading this, whatever you do, take small steps first. Harsh nerfs are never a good thing. If you’re gonna bother analyzing the metagame with these new weekly map rotations, then a massive nerf is not a good idea.

Pls let’s stop answering to these threads and let them die as they deserve.

Stop worrying, the roamer role is not going anywhere and neither is bunker role, either way there is to say that water line is there as part of the class mechanic, nerfing the traits won’t change the fact that water line is there to heal/support , hence the nerfs are asked only out of spite but Anet know what water is supposed to do so while it may get toned down, it’ll remain there to do what it’s supposed to do…heal.

More balanced builds are welcome and ele won’t become weaker anytime soon, on the contrary a power ele is even more dangerous, you can change the tides of battle quicker than any thief and warrior combined while still being more survivable( because those professions both run full glass cannon ).

Changes are coming nevertheless, knowing this I spent the last month trying new builds and getting away more and more from the usual 30 arcane/20 water, I discovered how some unused traits synergy beatifully with some runes and other traits, the output dmg is tremendous and while you won’t survive as your typical 0/10/0/30/30 you will dish 2x the damage, even though in a sense you become more survivable as by killing your opponent way quicker you won’t need to outlast him that long

You’re right. Eles don’t need to get toned down. All other classes need to get brought up to have a completely rounded build with no downsides. Everyone else has to make sacrifices in their specs in order to be mobile, spikey, survivable. Ele can currently do too much while sacrificing too little. This is why a mediocre or new player can excel on an ele.

More whining. I do have just as much, often more trouble with bunker mesmers, necros, rangers, guardians etc. I think every other class. But it is too easy to just complain.

Wreckdum.8367:

Arheundel.6451:

Razor.6392:

If the bunker ele is an issue, then why are you nerfing RtL? Are you forgetting that non-bunker builds actually need it so they can… you know, survive?

They just need to nerf the gimmicky water trait line, especially those two grandmaster traits. If people feel less inclined to go that deep in water, then these builds will most likely go away.

But please, ANet if you’re reading this, whatever you do, take small steps first. Harsh nerfs are never a good thing. If you’re gonna bother analyzing the metagame with these new weekly map rotations, then a massive nerf is not a good idea.

Pls let’s stop answering to these threads and let them die as they deserve.

Stop worrying, the roamer role is not going anywhere and neither is bunker role, either way there is to say that water line is there as part of the class mechanic, nerfing the traits won’t change the fact that water line is there to heal/support , hence the nerfs are asked only out of spite but Anet know what water is supposed to do so while it may get toned down, it’ll remain there to do what it’s supposed to do…heal.

More balanced builds are welcome and ele won’t become weaker anytime soon, on the contrary a power ele is even more dangerous, you can change the tides of battle quicker than any thief and warrior combined while still being more survivable( because those professions both run full glass cannon ).

Changes are coming nevertheless, knowing this I spent the last month trying new builds and getting away more and more from the usual 30 arcane/20 water, I discovered how some unused traits synergy beatifully with some runes and other traits, the output dmg is tremendous and while you won’t survive as your typical 0/10/0/30/30 you will dish 2x the damage, even though in a sense you become more survivable as by killing your opponent way quicker you won’t need to outlast him that long

You’re right. Eles don’t need to get toned down. All other classes need to get brought up to have a completely rounded build with no downsides. Everyone else has to make sacrifices in their specs in order to be mobile, spikey, survivable. Ele can currently do too much while sacrificing too little. This is why a mediocre or new player can excel on an ele.

Eles are all about versatility, devs have stated that the specific bunker build was on the watchlist which means the bunker build even if toned down will remain there and will still be able to outlast people that you like it or not, surely it won’t last forever as now but still a bunker will provide a reference point to use the devs’s words, for the all team.

Said so, the versatility of the ele is not going anywhere and the price for this it’s being locked at a given range, now if you can’t take advantage of that it means that the “new player” is far better than you, as ranger you should be perfectly able to use range to your advantage and still be able to deal with mele targets…if you can’t do that it’s because you’re still lacking nuff said..

Even if the bunker build may be too strong, nothing stops an ele from using a more well rounded build at a specific range, that’s the whole design goal, accept it or change game simple

In fact, Elementalists with D/D are simply the best class in game, followed by mesmer, for pvp. The biggest problem of them is that they’re even tougher than guardians, have literally milions of escape/reset abilities and still do a lot of damage, more than any other bunker-specced class. Swiftness+RtL * 2 elems = pure win in tPvP unless other team doesn’t run something similar. Best cappers, best mobility, best survivability, best healing. What’s the point of other classes?

Rym.1469:

In fact, Elementalists with D/D are simply the best class in game, followed by mesmer, for pvp. The biggest problem of them is that they’re even tougher than guardians, have literally milions of escape/reset abilities and still do a lot of damage, more than any other bunker-specced class. Swiftness+RtL * 2 elems = pure win in tPvP unless other team doesn’t run something similar. Best cappers, best mobility, best survivability, best healing. What’s the point of other classes?

Ha..the old 30/30/30/30/30/30 build , yeah the elementalist got a sixth trait line called “God Power” with grand master trait which grant 20s invulnerability everytime we switch attunement

I think you might need to rethink who you are sending as your offnode versus elementalist. As a trap ranger I do significantly well versus them and usually never lose the point cap (there are some specs that can do it but usually not quickly). You do not need to win the fight by killing them, just delaying long enough for a mid point cap will usually be enough. Map awareness for the rest of your team should also be stressed, if there is one at the home point, that means there is one less everywhere else, for example mid fight now either becomes a 4v4 or a 4v3 in your favor. If it is a 4v4 you can slip a mobile class off of middle and take their point as a free cap. All that really needs to happen is “survive” on the offnode, and you can push your advantage on other points.

Aggressive offnode pressure is a risk for the players doing it, as no matter what they have vulnerabilities in their formation. You just need to find out how to deal with these gaps that it creates.

About the ele “far point problem” ..an ele cant take the point or neutralise by killing anyone so..
If you know where the ele is going at all or most of the time then just send a mobile class at home point..top players say “but ele forces a 2vs1 at home and even then takes time to kill”..well DONT KILL
If you follow ele ,you can prevent the cap at home and you can also join the same teamfight if decides too..so nobody benefited.
If he does decide to fight 1vs1 at your captured node then gg you win.
The only thing you need to counter bunker s/d ele is a way to resist tornado and any other means he have to decap plus the position awaraness and mobility to prevent the back cap..
So,is it l2p /lack of builds that can achieve a “bunker ele shut down” role??Or is it indeed uncounterable?