Guild Wars 2

you shouldn’t do damage.

As simple as that, why cant we have that uncomplicated design here?

How is it fair a perma health/protec ranger pretty much unkillable and uncatchable can have a pet hitting you for 1.3k when you have toughness as your second primary stat?

How is it fair a guardian can out-DPS most others “supports” while consistently having most boons up 80% of the time for the entire party?

How is it fair that the only viable uild for eles is D/D water/arcana bunker which despite the constant nerfs that has been receiving for the last 9 months it is on a very strong position while those same nerfs affected 2x more the already borderline laughable staff without any compensation?

How come a thief with almost perma health/stealth can waltz around the battlefield constantly delivering devastating backstabs while healing the little damage you can put on them on that unfair window where their perma-stealth has a 2 seconds CD…..

Please Anet, work on making damage….well do damage, and tanks…….well, not kill you as fast as a glass cannon.

Right now we have only two extremes on the scales;

Too much damage (no need for defense): Mesmers, thieves, warrior (on 1v1 and 2v2 scenarios)
Too much tanking (no need for damage): Rangers, Guardians, Eles, engis

Please, make fights where skills matters, by now, 9 months after release I think we can demand it. Fights are pretty much decided by this;

1) Are you a mesmer/thief? -> are your CDs up? If yes then what are you waiting for…kill them. no-> wait for CDs.

2) Are you ranger/ele/guardian? Dont worry, just outlast them, they will die eventually.

By asking this you are promoting more of the endless fights… The balance scale doesn’t need to be bigger, rather it needs to be the other way around to fit with the fact that they didn’t want the magic trio…

I agree on some points but I won’t put on the same table Guardians, Rangers and Elementalists with Thieves regarding tPvP at least. Thieves healing capabilities are much weaker than Guardians or Eles or Rangers Regeneration.

Fortus.6175:

How come a thief with almost perma health/stealth can waltz around the battlefield constantly delivering devastating backstabs while healing the little damage you can put on them on that unfair window where their perma-stealth has a 2 seconds CD…..

You couldn’t be more wrong about thieves in tPvP.

Broad statement is broad.

Guardians don’t really do that much damage if they aren’t running a damage spec. They are mainly their to help assists their teammates and soak up the other team’s resources. They just happen to do that the best and other professions “support” roles don’t really compare. That’s simply a balancing game and it can be achieved without drastic things like completely neutering “non damage” specs.

Necro wasn’t even mentioned lol.

Anyway, I will agree to some extent that there are too extremes of damage and bunker. The issue is there are are also two different playing fields—sPvP and PvE/WvW.

These need to be separated entirely before they’ll be able to balance anything correctly and thus far they have only partially separated the two with a few skills spread out across each profession. This is wrong and will not help anything. It would require more work on their part but balance would be easier to do and changes in one area would not ruin the gameplay of the other like it’s currently doing.

They need to get with the program.

Lol, so much fail in the OP…

oh god this thread is such a success

Dude cut the hyperbole. You are flailing around in the dark. I do kind of agree about ranger pets though they hit too hard and uber defense spec rangers with pets that hit hard are not balanced for 1v1 at the very least.

Pandabro.8743:

Broad statement is broad.

Guardians don’t really do that much damage if they aren’t running a damage spec. They are mainly their to help assists their teammates and soak up the other team’s resources. They just happen to do that the best and other professions “support” roles don’t really compare. That’s simply a balancing game and it can be achieved without drastic things like completely neutering “non damage” specs.

redundant statement is redundant

It isnt about them hitting as hard as a damage specc, it is about how hard they hit despite the fact the fact that they are almost exclusively “tanks”
And just like you said, they do waaay too much as a support compared to others support, their suport is above anything else in the game, their damage shouldnt also be above all other supports, and even some DPS in the game.

Once again, there isnt a clear line, if you go for tank and support, then thats what your damage should reflect, and this also applies to all the other classes afore mentioned;

if you go full tank ranger, then you should do pitiful damage, period.

Guardian damage as a bunker is pathetic, half of it comes from Retaliation!

An Elementalist can still provide loads of support just by switching around attunements in a group fight and providing all those boons to allies, and they will do significantly more damage than a support Guardian.

Guardian’s if specc’d for DPS are all melee, melee is far harder in this game than ranged, ranged specs have so many conditions to keep a foe at range and abilities to extend the range with leaps and teleports.
Melee also need to be in the thick of the ridiculous amount of AoE and cleave damage this game has.
Survivability is priority 1 for melee dps.

Kiting a DPS Guardian as a ranged DPS is the easiest thing in GW2.

Oh and Guardian aren’t “tanks” get that mentality out of your head, it’s clouding your judgement on what you think each profession should and shouldn’t be able to do.

Guardian were designed with support in mind, so it’s everywhere across traits, weapons and utilities.

agree that massive self healing/bunker types make the pvp pretty boring and uncompelling

Middle ground should be the aim. Part of the reason I like playing a dps guardian is that i can fill out 2 trait lines, toughness and conditions, for a hard hitting yet survivable balance. Granted I haven’t been playing for that long, but this doesn’t seem possible on a lot the other toons I play. Its been said before, but bears repeating : extremes of burst or survivability both suck to play against. Im cautiously optimistic though, specs like the sword and dagger thief for example, while it needs toning down, seems like a good direction since it has decent damage and sustain. While other classes seem to have too much of both see Mesmers and BM regen rangers. Frankly Im also a little worried, coming from WoW pvp where cc is a mile long and everywhere. It got to that state through trying to balance out abilities by always creating new ones. The parallel I see in this game is the boon hate mechanic designed to balance out sometimes op boons. So whats next? Balance for the toons that cant abuse boons by throwing more abilities on to their abilities/weapons? Boon hate hate lol. Simpler is better i think, if boons are overpowered for some specs it might be wiser to tone down boon access and balance the other professions accordingly.

Thats not the way the game is designed. There is no trinity. Any tank spec has access to damage via other options, though this damage is less risky so it’s not bursty (retal on guardian, pet on a ranger, boons on an ele/engineer, mesmer phantasms etc). Most classes also have the generic option of going tanky + condition damage too if there is a build for it. Basically any build should have access to healing/damage/defense, just to varying degrees based on what you focus on.

everyone is aware of how the game is designed. Problem is that it is resulting in boring and uncompelling pvp gameplay.

Thus the feedback that indicates a design change is likely necessary to increase participation.

Since when Bunker-Guards have a massive dmg-output?

Fortus.6175:

you shouldn’t do damage.

As simple as that, why cant we have that uncomplicated design here?

How is it fair a perma health/protec ranger pretty much unkillable and uncatchable can have a pet hitting you for 1.3k when you have toughness as your second primary stat?

How is it fair a guardian can out-DPS most others “supports” while consistently having most boons up 80% of the time for the entire party?

How is it fair that the only viable uild for eles is D/D water/arcana bunker which despite the constant nerfs that has been receiving for the last 9 months it is on a very strong position while those same nerfs affected 2x more the already borderline laughable staff without any compensation?

How come a thief with almost perma health/stealth can waltz around the battlefield constantly delivering devastating backstabs while healing the little damage you can put on them on that unfair window where their perma-stealth has a 2 seconds CD…..

Please Anet, work on making damage….well do damage, and tanks…….well, not kill you as fast as a glass cannon.

Right now we have only two extremes on the scales;

Too much damage (no need for defense): Mesmers, thieves, warrior (on 1v1 and 2v2 scenarios)
Too much tanking (no need for damage): Rangers, Guardians, Eles, engis

Please, make fights where skills matters, by now, 9 months after release I think we can demand it. Fights are pretty much decided by this;

1) Are you a mesmer/thief? -> are your CDs up? If yes then what are you waiting for…kill them. no-> wait for CDs.

2) Are you ranger/ele/guardian? Dont worry, just outlast them, they will die eventually.

It’s actually kind of funny how majority of the people like you are still hung up on the pet damage when in the end anet will push rangers to use more affective builds.

I agree with everything you said.
I think they need to introduce a mechanic for warriors that keep warriors in a viable position when attacking.

I agree rangers hitting you with their pets and pounding you with their 300 dmg arrows is excessive.

I think they should reduce the skills used, and add variety by letting players use some skills from other professions.

I think they should lock down ele’s to sticking to one major attunement and not swapping through them all chaotically.

I think limiting players to just D.P.S or support is too small of range..they need to add healing or AoE support.

I think mesmer clones should be swapped out to skills that don’t necessarily do damage, they just remove skills from you, interrupt you, punish you for attacking, or punish you if you do nothing.

I think every profession should have the same HP pool.

I think thieve’s shouldn’t have stealth.

I think they should bundle up all these and repackage guild war 2 as Guild wars…

Anet has already designed a game for people who prefer this sort of playstyle focus. They developed it near 8-9 years ago. Guild wars is still a great game and If I am not wrong you can probably buy the entire installment of it for $15 from the discount bin of your local game store. It still has a live team and it still changes content weekly to give some layer of variety. There is nothing broken about gw1..at any time you can return to it and and your old favourite is still waiting for you to continue on your glad 4 title in the random arena’s. I am not trying to mean spirited..but from what you have said, I think guild wars is probably a more well suited game for the playstyle your looking for. (See what I did there Anet?..still plugged your previous offering. Can I please finally get a jade weapon ticket now from dragon coffers..800+ and still no luck.. Wink.)

Fortus.6175:

1) Are you a mesmer/thief? -> are your CDs up? If yes then what are you waiting for…kill them. no-> wait for CDs.

2) Are you ranger/ele/guardian? Dont worry, just outlast them, they will die eventually.

I am confused… so what will happen when a mesmer/thief with all CD up engage a ranger/ele/guardian?!

But I’d like to see the game rewarding people for making the best build they can get, not only for their reflexes.

Might we have that?